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University claims Apple's glossy screens may cause injury - Page 2

post #41 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It seems to me that a company should try to give consumers what they want.

You nailed it.

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post #42 of 333
Quote:
downgrading to a matte display.

No, AI got this wrong, that should be 'upgrading' to a Matte display. I have a unibody 13" and the screen sucks. It's shocking how prone the screen is to getting dirty and the reflections are nothing less than apalling if you have a source of strong light behind you.
post #43 of 333
On reflection, companies held up to the mirror of scrutiny should never gloss over issues like this.

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post #44 of 333
Gloss vs Matte is a matter of user preference, not ergonomics! I prefer a glossy laptop and a matte monitor. Should I see a shrink?
post #45 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It seems to me that a company should try to give consumers what they want.

What the consumers want can be easily educated, or even manipulated. When the iPhone came out, most people had doubt that they could ever type fast on a software keyboard. Many people that I know of who used to be Blackberry/Treo fans are now fans of software keyboard. Giving in whatever the consumers demand does not necessarily bring success. Educate what the consumer should need by providing/creating a different technology is also a proven strategy.
post #46 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

You ignored the obvious. If there is no glare issue on the glossy screen, why bother providing an anti-glare then?

A large number of consumers, if not most consumers, are ignorant. Period.

All I can say is I was somewhat worried when I bought my current 15" MacBook Pro, not having had a glossy screen before. Given the choice, I would have gone for matte. But given that I had no choice, I can honestly say that that the fact that it's glossy hasn't bothered me ONCE in the months since I've had it, it's only when I read articles like this that I'm even conscious of it!

I don't know if that makes me ignorant. I'm a software developer and not a graphic designer so I don't do professional colour matching but if I did I would probably buy a CRT rather than an LCD display, matte or otherwise.

-Rolf
post #47 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

You ignored the obvious. If there is no glare issue on the glossy screen, why bother providing an anti-glare then?

A large number of consumers, if not most consumers, are ignorant. Period.

Why only on the 17" for the anti-glare option? We need to know that the 17" model is the high-end model. People who tend to buy the 17" are more likely to be more aware and intelligent about the screen quality compared to the mainstream consumers, like most consumers are happy with their 6-bit TN screen.

You make some very unusual statements:

— People who buy larger notebooks tend to be less ignorant than people who buy smaller notebooks.

— People who buy the 17” MBP are most likely buying the plastic-screened version.

Neither one of those rings true to me. Do you have anything to back your previous statement? There seems to be evidence that supports the use of both types of displays. Stating that someone is ignorant for preferring the type you don’t care for is, in itself, ignorant.
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post #48 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Are matte displays so hard?

No.

Are Apple so stubborn? Yes.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #49 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

This comes form a country, where crocks, and sharks can kill and eat you, more people are stung by jellyfish, where a kangaroo could kick your ass, and more people die in cars because of impact with kangaroo

Hahaha.... Tell me you're joking

(Still awake in Melbourne)
post #50 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

You nailed it.

And you nailed his nailing of it.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #51 of 333
[QUOTE=AppleInsider;1433076]An Australian University is warning its faculty and students about some potential adverse health effects of using Apple's notebook

"Reflections and glare on high gloss monitor screens and their relation to the angle of the monitor screen, could cause the operator to adopt awkward postures... It advises users to close their blinds or window shades...to minimise glare and reflection."

Better do what they say, because looking out your windows is even more unhealthy. Even better- live in a dark basement or even a prison! Think I'll go watch TV-no can't do that either...Come to think of it, I can't use my contacts or my glasses! I can't even look at my favorite framed pictures anymore?
post #52 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

What the consumers want can be easily educated, or even manipulated.

You crack me up dude. You're saying Apple should force-feed matte screens on everybody because they know what's best for us. Well, as was stated above matte v. glossy is a matter of preference. You can make a glossy screen matte by slapping a filter on it, but you can't make a matte screen glossy with a filter (without losing all the benefits of glossy anyway) Seems to me the obvious/best solution is to make them with glossy screens and let the small percentage that prefer matte turn them into matte screens.
post #53 of 333
This is nothing compared to the damage done by glossy pages in over-priced textbooks. I encourage students to avoid buying textbooks.
post #54 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Where was this study when we had glossy CRT monitors and standard TV sets years back? I even remember using glossy monitor filters at that time.

The difference with CRTs is that few had perfectly flat screens, so reflections were more diffused than the flat, mirror-like LCD monitors we use today. Most high-end displays had anti-glare coatings.

I really fail to see why Apple so far refuses to offer a matte screen option for the rest of the MacBook Pro line. Especially the 15", which is/was (until the 13" was renamed) the most popular model.

Workstation ergonomics ARE important. The quality and adjustability of your chair. Keyboard and mouse positioning. Position of your display in relation to non-adjustable elements like overhead lighting and windows. All these things contribute to comfort, fighting repetitive stress injuries, eye problems and productivity.

As far as the display goes, it's simply not practical or possible for everyone to reconfigure their workspace to fight glare. And when traveling with a laptop, conditions are even more unpredictable.

Sure, many people either don't care or prefer a glossy screen. For many others, it's more than just a cosmetic choice.
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post #55 of 333
I think the discussion will never end.

So for my part, I got myself a matte 17 MBP, IMHO the best laptop screen I've ever had.

We can't reply to the question if glossy/glassy is bad for the eyes - it may take years, like smoking. You know there are lots of people that keep telling you that smoking isn't bad for your health...
post #56 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Are matte displays so hard?

Can a matte screen be created using some sort of material like the recyclable glass Apple now uses for it's monitor screens and that Apple touts make's it's computer so environmentally friendly?

If the screens can't be made from some sort of material that can be recyclable, then as long as Apple has that environmentalist wacko Al Gore on their Board of Directors, then forget about it!

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post #57 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

If people really hated them that much don't you think the MacBook would be a horrible sales flop?

I'm sure Apple has done the cost/benefit analysis. Matte displays would require more overhead, better supply chain management, and more retail space (eg., many Apple stores currently show both glossy and matte 17" MBPs and stock both items). That doesn't mean matte displays aren't desirable by many customers, on 13- and 15-inch laptops as well as the new 24-inch display.

I would like to upgrade one of my MBPs, but IMHO Apple blew it by going all-glossy in the 15" size and now by downgrading to SATA 1. In case you've never tried it, an SSD makes a world of difference in a laptop, and SSDs are getting cheaper/more practical every month. The SSD I have in an MBP is only running at half speed, but it's running as fast as it would in any new 15" MBP. I feel no compelling need to "upgrade", especially when my old MBPs have matte displays.

Disclaimer: I have no investments in any manufacturers of computer hardware or software.
post #58 of 333
I hate the glossy screens. As a MacBook Pro owner, I was glad there was the option to buy a new MacBook Pro with the anti-glare screen last year. I wonder what I'll do in a few years when I need to upgrade and all Apple offers is the glossy screens. I remember buying addon anti-glare screens that clipped onto the monitor or laptop when the manufacturers hadn't perfected the anti-glare screen as standard equipment.

I guess Apple is moving us backwards in the quest to make video look better on their products. I guess the anti-glare screen addon manufacturers are very happy about this turn of events.
post #59 of 333
...this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
post #60 of 333
Of course this is all CYA on the university's part. When the first disability lawsuit is filed they'll be able to point to these documents and say, "We warned you." Don't sue us. Sue the display manufacturers. Actually I'm dumbfounded that such a lawsuit isn't already out there somewhere. There probably is and it hasn't made the blogs yet. I read somewhere that 50% of the price of a stepladder these days is for liability coverage.
post #61 of 333
Have you ever seen a university computer lab that was ergonomically correct? I seriously doubt it.

Once again, people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Let's blame a widget because I refuse to sit correctly in an upright position with a straight back. Why not blame the chair? Or the table? Surely it can't be that the only exercise those folks get is whacking their wrist left-to-right to get that mouse moving? I've rarely seen a student that didn't slouch on a chair with enough opening to slide a person through their chair.

Let's spin some more baseless accusations:

95% of those students with problems drink water during the day - Let's ban daytime water drinking. They are over-hydrating themselves causing their backs to bend unnaturally in the chair due to the liquid shifting in their stomach which only becomes apparent using a glossy-screened, Apple-branded computer.

100% of those students walk to their classrooms - let's mandate high-end walking shoes. The skeletal strain of flip-flops and sandals are compressing their spinal discs causing said bad posture which only becomes apparent using a glossy-screened, Apple-branded computer.

85% use the bathroom in the morning - It has been determined that the urinals are not at the necessary elevation to properly relieve oneself. Too short and they have to slouch, proving the bad posture which only becomes apparent using a glossy-screened, Apple-branded computer. Too high a urinal results in enlarged calf-muscles causing student to hit ceiling after a bouncy walk.

53% received paper-cuts in class - sue the paper company. Diseased fingers causes over-compensation with mouse fingers that only becomes apparent when - - - using a glossy screened Apple-branded computer.

100% marketing research companies are too lazy to do actual reporting - Ok... ya got me on that one!

Shoot, I spilled coffee on my lap and got burned! I'll sue McDonalds (again) since they should have warned me that coffee is hot and can burn! But then again, it happened when I was using a glossy-screened, Apple-branded computer and the reflection of my boss looking over my shoulder caused me to over-react! I can sue Apple too!

And for the record, I've used glossy iMacs since they came out. Never, ever had a problem. I'm not saying there is no problem for some people but that can be said for just about any product out there. Grow a spine people - pun intended.
post #62 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You make some very unusual statements:

— People who buy larger notebooks tend to be less ignorant than people who buy smaller notebooks.

— People who buy the 17” MBP are most likely buying the plastic-screened version.

Neither one of those rings true to me. Do you have anything to back your previous statement? There seems to be evidence that supports the use of both types of displays. Stating that someone is ignorant for preferring the type you don’t care for is, in itself, ignorant.

You're obviously taking my statement out of the context of how Apple sell laptops and put it into where it isn't intended for. You're so pathetic if you're trying to mislead the other readers.

First of all, I've never said larger laptops are necessarily the high-end for other brands. I made it very clear in context that is the case for Macbook Pro lines, where the 17" Macbook Pro model is the high-end model for Apple. It is more than obvious you misunderstood me or trying to mislead the readers.

Also, I've never said people who buy the 17” MBP are most likely buying the plastic-screened version. What I was trying to say was those who tend to buy the high-end 17" Macbook Pro has a higher portion of people that are aware and intelligent of the screen quality. That doesn't necessarily mean most 17" MBP buyers will choose matte screen. You're obviously reading into it and it is your problem.

Still, you choose to ignore what I said. If glare is not an issue, then why should Apple provide an anti-glare? A matter of preference? Then why not on 13" and 15" as well?
post #63 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

You can make a glossy screen matte by slapping a filter on it, but you can't make a matte screen glossy with a filter

If that's what Apple had in mind in going almost entirely glossy, then why can't you buy matte filters for Apple displays in the Apple Store?
post #64 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT Walrus View Post

I hate the glossy screens. As a MacBook Pro owner, I was glad there was the option to buy a new MacBook Pro with the anti-glare screen last year. I wonder what I'll do in a few years when I need to upgrade and all Apple offers is the glossy screens. I remember buying addon anti-glare screens that clipped onto the monitor or laptop when the manufacturers hadn't perfected the anti-glare screen as standard equipment.

I guess Apple is moving us backwards in the quest to make video look better on their products. I guess the anti-glare screen addon manufacturers are very happy about this turn of events.

Yes, yes. We all know that this report has aroused matte fanboys across the globe. I can almost hear the orgasms taking place.
post #65 of 333
It's only Apple that makes glossy screens, WTF.
post #66 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogman View Post

This is nothing compared to the damage done by glossy pages in over-priced textbooks. I encourage students to avoid buying textbooks.

Only ignorant students buy textbooks with glossy pages, which is why I learned braille.
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post #67 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

...this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

It keeps us busy complaining here instead of worrying about Geithner destroying our currency. Hey, paper money is glare free! Not like that dangerously shiny Gold!
post #68 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

They just don't want to admit the issue because many ignorant consumers like the glossy screen.

I like my glossy screen so therefore I'm an ignorant consumer? Fascinating...

I really wish Apple would offer the matte finish on all notebooks, if nothing else but to shut the vocal minority up.

And yes, you are in a minority - otherwise Apple would support both across the board. And no, I don't think glossy only notebooks have hurt their sales - just look at the growth rate in the notebook category vs. desktop and the success they had last quarter.
post #69 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

...this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Ah, then you already knew your health is a function of your environment and what you eat.
post #70 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I like my glossy screen so therefore I'm an ignorant consumer? Fascinating...

I really wish Apple would offer the matte finish on all notebooks, if nothing else but to shut the vocal minority up.

Men are in the minority.
post #71 of 333
I have a Blackbook with glossy screen and it works BETTER than the matte screen in direct sunlight. In fact I can turn brightness all the way off and still see the image while in direct sunlight. If you do encounter glare, move the screen NOT your body. What's so difficult about that?
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post #72 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Are matte displays so hard?

Each variation on a product has a cost associated with it.

Apple has made the business decision that the cost of supporting additional matte SKUs across the board outweighs the benefits in sales (i.e. profit!) they would get.

Now you can disagree with them all you want (as many have and I'm sure will continue to do) but Apple wins awards and best competitors constantly for profit, supply chain efficiency and top revenue generation per square footage in their stores. So pardon me if I believe them more then a few disgruntled wags on the Internet.
post #73 of 333
I hope Apple is hearing this. I've avoided all of Apple's displays since they went glossy. I even bought my first ever Windows laptop mainly for its matte display and, well, it's a nice inexpensive netbook which Apple doesn't have either.

Shiny things don't do it for everyone.
post #74 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

...this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

I don't think it's that dumb. I think Apple should offer matte as an option on all their products, so we can get on with our lives. I'll still choose glossy, but I know a few people - and at least one university - who would choose matte.
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post #75 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I like my glossy screen so therefore I'm an ignorant consumer? Fascinating...

That's what you said. If you think you're an ignorant that's your problem. I never said that. I know there are others who buy Macbooks because they have no choice of choosing matte screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I really wish Apple would offer the matte finish on all notebooks, if nothing else but to shut the vocal minority up.

And yes, you are in a minority - otherwise Apple would support both across the board. And no, I don't think glossy only notebooks have hurt their sales - just look at the growth rate in the notebook category vs. desktop and the success they had last quarter.

That is why Apple is going to stick with glossy screen, at least for awhile. Since everyone likes, so why bother?
post #76 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

The fact that Apple sells millions of Macs every quarter with glossy screens tells me that people happen to like them.

The fact that Apple ONLY offers glossy screens on EVERY Mac they sell (excluding the $50 option of the 17" MBP) says absolutely nothing. If there's no choice, there's no point to be made.

The "choice" is between a Mac with a glossy screen or some POS DOSBox from Dell or HP with a matte screen. NOT being able to run Mac OS X is NOT a choice, OR an option in my book.

The thing I don't get is why some people who prefer glossy displays stoop to insulting those of us who prefer matte? It's ridiculous. That's like calling people idiots for the style or brand of headphones they prefer. I don't care if you like glossy screens, enjoy it, that's really not the issue.

All we're asking of Apple is a choice. If I'm already going to spend upwards of $2500 for a BTO MacBook Pro, then forced to pay an extra $50 to get it with a matte screen, I won't like it, but so be it. I'll pay the $50. For something I'll be using EVERY day for 2 or 3 years, it's worth it to me. But I DO want a matte screen and would prefer not to be forced to dick around with anti-glare films or spend $200 and void my warranty to get the glass replaced.

So, what's your problem?
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post #77 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Ah, then you already knew your health is a function of your environment and what you eat.

Shocking, isn't it? And it didn't take a team of lawyers and scientists for me to figure out that instead of sitting for hours with my head shoved under my armpit and one foot up my ass, I should just turn my screen slightly.

Quote:
"Reflections and glare on high gloss monitor screens and their relation to the angle of the monitor screen, could cause the operator to adopt awkward postures when viewing the monitor screen and using related equipment," the advisory says.
post #78 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2002brian View Post

I have a Blackbook with glossy screen and it works BETTER than the matte screen in direct sunlight. In fact I can turn brightness all the way off and still see the image while in direct sunlight. If you do encounter glare, move the screen NOT your body. What's so difficult about that?

I've never said that the glossy screen ITSELF IS A PROBLEM. I use many glossy screens that don't have much glare issues, at least to the point that it is not visible. The problems that I have is that the glare issue of Apple's glossy screen is bad enough to not ignore it.
post #79 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

First of all, I've never said larger laptops are necessarily the high-end for other brands. I made it very clear in context that is the case for Macbook Pro lines, where the 17" Macbook Pro model is the high-end model for Apple. It is more than obvious you misunderstood me or trying to mislead the readers.

Also, I've never said people who buy the 17” MBP are most likely buying the plastic-screened version. What I was trying to say was those who tend to buy the high-end 17" Macbook Pro has a higher portion of people that are aware and intelligent of the screen quality. That doesn't necessarily mean most 17" MBP buyers will choose matte screen. You're obviously reading into it and it is your problem.

You wrote: "People who tend to buy the 17" are more likely to be more aware and intelligent about the screen quality”
How else is that be taken. Seriously.

Quote:
If glare is not an issue, then why should Apple provide an anti-glare? A matter of preference? Then why not on 13" and 15" as well?

If glare was such an issue then why do all their machine types come with glossy displays. Only one has an option for matte. Oh yeah, consumers are ignorant and 17” MBP owners are more aware and intelligent.

There are pros and cons with each type, but most people prefer glossy. There are plenty of graphics-related professionals that prefer glossy displays. The inclusion of the matte option doesn’t miraculously validate your feelings that glossy is inherently bad and all consumers and professionals that prefer glossy are inherently stupid. Your preference is your preference, and I’m glad that Apple has an option for. I even hope they move that option down to their other MBP sizes, but that doesn’t mean that your preference should be the only option.
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post #80 of 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Shocking, isn't it? And it didn't take a team of lawyers and scientists for me to figure out that instead of sitting for hours with my head shoved under my armpit and one foot up my ass, I should just turn my screen slightly.

But it might take such a team to convince you that a cute little Apple computer might do this to you. You should take heart in the fact that you knew... and help others to know.
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