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Apple kicks iPhone for enterprise efforts into overdrive

post #1 of 99
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Apple this week stepped up its efforts to take on rivals Research in Motion and Microsoft in the corporate smartphone market, releasing a lengthy guide aimed at helping system administrators deploy iPhones throughout big businesses while simultaneously taking advantage of over a dozen new enterprise features delivered this week.

The 83-page guide [PDF], titled ÂiPhone OS Enterprise Deployment Guide: First Edition, for Version 3.0 or later," highlights 18 new corporate-friendly features in iPhone Software 3.0, signaling the Cupertino-based company's most recent efforts yet to push adoption of its touchscreen handset in a market currently dominated by devices runningÂ* variants of Windows Mobile or BlackBerry operating systems.Â*

If Apple intends to gain a dominant share of the enterprise market, the company has its work cut out for it. A study released by TradingMarkets in April of this year shows that BlackBerry and Windows Mobile hold a combined 63 percent total market share. The same report also states that AppleÂs iPhone  along with Google Android and Symbian devices  Âare not serious contenders for U.S. business use. Clearly thatÂs a stigma Apple hopes to change.

For businesses to make the leap to the iPhone may not be too difficult a transition: the report highlights AT&T, the iPhoneÂs exclusive U.S. provider, as a dominant enterprise carrier, along with Verizon.

The enterprise smartphone market has been in AppleÂs sights for the duration of the iPhoneÂs existence, but the company has pushed harder to compete in the space with each update to the phoneÂs software. In 2008, chief executive Steve Jobs introduced initiatives to appeal to business users. More than a year later, that plan is still being carried out with this weekÂs launch of the version 3.0 operating system. Apple has also maintained an enterprise-centric section on its Web site to promote its phone in the corporate world, in which it bills the handset as "The best phone for business. Ever."

As the iPhone platform has matured with regular software updates, some companies have become more open to adopting the phone. Last summer, market research firm Gartner approved the iPhone for limited enterprise use after the then-release of iPhone Software 2.0 introduced Microsoft Exchange support and a "remote wipe" feature via Microsoft Exchange. At the time, Gartner remained critical of the iPhone Configuration Utility used to set up configuration profiles on new phones, because it worked through an unencrypted XML file. This week, that concern was also addressed with the 3.0 software update, which allows configuration profiles to be encrypted and locked to a device.

Apple just on Thursday evening released iPhone Configuration Utility 2.0 (8.7MB) to help manage updated phones.

The configuration security feature is one of many detailed in the new enterprise deployment guide available on AppleÂs Web site. The document highlights a wide range of new business-friendly features, ranging from security to accessibility. They include:
CalDAV calendar wireless syncing is now supported.Â*
LDAP server support for contact look-up in mail, address book, and SMS.Â*
Configuration profiles can be encrypted and locked to a device so that their removal requires an administrative password.Â*
iPhone Configuration Utility 2.0 now allows you to add and remove encrypted configuration profiles directly onto devices that are connected to your computer by USB.Â*
Online Certificate Status Protocol (OCSP) is now supported for certificate revocation.Â*
On-demand certificate-based VPN connections are now supported.Â*
VPN proxy configuration via a configuration profile and VPN servers is supported.Â*
Microsoft Exchange users can invite others to meetings. Microsoft Exchange 2007 users can also view reply status.Â*
Exchange ActiveSync client certificate-based authentication is now supported.Â*
Additional EAS policies are now supported, along with EAS protocol 12.1.Â*
Additional device restrictions are now available, including the ability to specify the length of time that a device can be left unlocked and disabling the camera.Â*
Local mail messages and calendar events can be searched. For IMAP, MobileMe, and Exchange 2007, mail that resides on the server can also be searched.Â*
Additional mail folders can now be designated for push email delivery.Â*
APN proxy settings can now be made specified using a configuration profile.
Web clips can now be installed using a configuration profile.Â*
802.1x EAP-SIM is now supported.Â*
Devices can now be authenticated and enrolled over-the-air using a Simple Certificate Enrollment Protocol (SCEP) server.Â*
iTunes can now store device backups in encrypted format.Â*

As the iPhone continues to evolve and improve, it faces a smartphone market that is becoming increasingly saturated by competitors, many of which mimic AppleÂs once-unique touchscreen capabilities. PalmÂs recently-launched Pre will be joined by new devices from RIM and others running Windows Mobile expected in the coming months. Apple is expected to push back as it continues to claw its way into the competitive enterprise smartphone market.
post #2 of 99
Hope it will have some impact. But I doubt it.
post #3 of 99
If Apple intends to gain a dominant share of the enterprise market, the company has its work cut out for it.

It's impossible. Apple's DNA is chasing the consumer market with shiny objects, creating cult consumers and grabbing as much cash out of them as possible before moving to "the next big thing".

The iPhone 3Gs may be the fad right now, but it will go off the radar and something else will take it's place.

Apple doesn't have the staying power to take on RIM, in fact the more they try, the stronger RIM becomes the corporate choice.

I hate to say it, but as a lifelong Mac user that's my observations, Apple's DNA is not appealing to corporate America or else Mac's would have taken over Windows PC's long ago.
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post #4 of 99
Healthy competition is great for the market and drives innovation.
post #5 of 99
Very good points. Hope they go full steam ahead and not be bullheaded about it and settle for 10% of the smartphone market.
post #6 of 99
Definitely agree that iTunes isn't the software that businesses would want their users syncing with. A corporate syncing tool that looked, well, corporate, even if it is iTunes under the hood, would be a good idea.

OTOH I doubt many businesses care that their users also like music, and Apple won't complain if business computers get iTunes, and thus more iTunes users.
post #7 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

...the iPhone XT (say) must be open to different carriers ...

... a iPhone XT version that looks more serious, with professional looking icons and interface...

...if corporate types want a frigging keyboard, give them a frigging keyboard....

...if the corporate world wants to be able to remove the battery, let them....

all that, and then:
Quote:
Save corporations tons of money, look and act serious with a serious product that is a answer to all their prayers and then give them huge volume discounts and long superior support.


Dude. Do you even read what you write? You want them to change EVERYTHING (keyboard, battery, OS, look) about the phone, oh, and the carrier partner. And do it at a "huge"discount.

I don't even know where to begin...
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post #8 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

If Apple intends to gain a dominant share of the enterprise market, the company has its work cut out for it.

I agree, first off the image of the iPhone and Apple as a consumer only (read non-corporate) products company has to change. (glossy screens? 86% of thinkpad owners said no way!)

Next the iPhone XT (say) must be open to different carriers like the RIM already is.

Third, a iPhone XT version that looks more serious, with professional looking icons and interface and yes if corporate types want a frigging keyboard, give them a frigging keyboard.

Fourth, a computer iPhone XT/integration program that is more useful and professional looking for the corporate types. Ties with office software etc. Not the "fun" media based iTunes, this has no place in the workplace. Work is for work, not for play.

Fifth, if the corporate world wants to be able to remove the battery, let them.

Sixth, encryption, the whole phone, even voice. The most secure smart phone OS on the market, right now it's a joke.

Forcing corporate to accept the iPhone in it's current state is not going to work, it's image as a "games" device is already established, so another Apple iPhone (perhaps called something else) has to appeal to this market.

It has to get serious, Apple has to get serious.

Apple tends to pay attention to a product for awhile and then drop interest in it, because it's chasing the whims and trends of consumers. This it can't do anymore. If it gets in, it has to stay there and prove it.

If it's going to appeal to corporate customers, Apple has to behave more like chess players than flaky artists off on the "next big thing"

Even then RIM has gotten in good with corporate types, so Apple has to do something even better.

Save corporations tons of money, look and act serious with a serious product that is a answer to all their prayers and then give them huge volume discounts and long superior support.


Frankly, I think it's impossible, knowing Apple. I don't even know why I bothered to post this as it's not going to happen.

Apple's DNA has to evolve to take on RIM and RIM already has a huge head start.

I understand your scepticism but I think you are mostly off-base on these comments.

The iPhone will almost certainly be on multiple US carriers very soon for instance, so that "problem" isn't really going to be one. The idea that the iPhone doesn't look "serious" enough is kind of silly IMO and the "physical keyboard issue" is an issue between generally conservative old-fashioned types and less conservative younger people. It has nothing to do with corporate/not corporate per se. The "removable battery issue" is in the same ballpark. The iPhone 3GS *is* encrypted, (the whole phone) although I'm not sure about voice.

The only thing I agree with you on is the iTunes issue, which I would still argue is up for a change very soon. The iTunes software is bloated, cumbersome and has completely outgrown it's music player origins and is seriously in need of a re-design/re-think, but I find it hard to believe that Apple doesn't see this also so I am assuming that they will change that soon.
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post #9 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

all that, and then:



Dude. Do you even read what you write? You want them to change EVERYTHING (keyboard, battery, OS, look) about the phone, oh, and the carrier partner. And do it at a "huge"discount.

I don't even know where to begin...

Yea, it would take a drastic change to Apple itself and the look and feel of the iPhone and it's supporting software to even make a dent in RIMs corporate market share.

Apple is a consumer products company, period.

I changed my post to reflect that...
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post #10 of 99
Interesting observations throughout this thread, I wonder how many of you keep up on the "corporate market place" or even work in a large scale corporate environment?

Intuit now offers employees choice of a mac laptop instead of just a Levano, the macs became so popular (yes among developers) that they had to limit the number of macs available per "team" budget to 50%, due to the fact they have 3rd party contracts in place (IBM) for desktop support.

They also are offering employees iPhones over Crackberry and again in massive numbers people are making the switch.

Not to mention, and forgive me I don't remember which company it was, but one of the worlds largest corporations was / is switching over to the iPhone for their employees as well, not that Intuit is any slouch with 5000 or so employees. - I'm sure someone here can recall which company it was.

This was before the changes apple had made for enterprise services.
post #11 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

...The iPhone will almost certainly be on multiple US carriers very soon for instance, so that "problem" isn't really going to be one. The idea that the iPhone doesn't look "serious" enough is kind of silly IMO and the "physical keyboard issue" is an issue between generally conservative old-fashioned types and less conservative younger people. It has nothing to do with corporate/not corporate per se. The "removable battery issue" is in the same ballpark. The iPhone 3GS *is* encrypted, (the whole phone) although I'm not sure about voice.

The iPhone is a apple.

The RIM is a orange.

Two different products for different markets, one business one consumer.

And yes if corporate America wants a keyboard and remove able battery on their smart phone and you want to sell phones to them, you better give them a keyboard and a remove able battery.

86% of Thinkpad users want a matte screen for their work laptops. Did Lenevo go ahead and make only glossy screens like consumer oriented HP did with their computers? No.

Says it all right there. Apple listening to the business market needs is like trying to force a round peg into square hole.

The business world knows what it wants, it doesn't need cult product marketing and Apple's "your going to take it the way we want" business model.
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post #12 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

If Apple intends to gain a dominant share of the enterprise market, the company has its work cut out for it.

It's impossible. Apple's DNA is chasing the consumer market with shiny objects, creating cult consumers and grabbing as much cash out of them as possible before moving to "the next big thing".

The iPhone 3Gs may be the fad right now, but it will go off the radar and something else will take it's place.

Apple doesn't have the staying power to take on RIM, in fact the more they try, the stronger RIM becomes the corporate choice.

I hate to say it, but as a lifelong Mac user that's my observations, Apple's DNA is not appealing to corporate America or else Mac's would have taken over Windows PC's long ago.

when you take the cost of BES into account, the iphone is a lot cheaper than blackberries
post #13 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

If Apple intends to gain a dominant share of the enterprise market, the company has its work cut out for it.

It's impossible. Apple's DNA is chasing the consumer market with shiny objects, creating cult consumers and grabbing as much cash out of them as possible before moving to "the next big thing".

The iPhone 3Gs may be the fad right now, but it will go off the radar and something else will take it's place.

Apple doesn't have the staying power to take on RIM, in fact the more they try, the stronger RIM becomes the corporate choice.

I hate to say it, but as a lifelong Mac user that's my observations, Apple's DNA is not appealing to corporate America or else Mac's would have taken over Windows PC's long ago.

This is just foolish, IMO. There are a very few items in Apple's portfolio that have languished/been dropped. Have they "moved on" from the Mac? The iPod? OS X? All indications are that they (rightfully) consider the iPhone to be a major aspect of their business now, and the first piece of hardware in what will be built into a platform. Are you actually claiming that anyone suspects that Apple might get bored with the iPhone and just wander off?

The idea that Apple are a bunch of hippies that flit from one thing to another in a way that turns off corporate America might be a staple of PC partisanship, but it doesn't really have any bearing on reality. Sure, they have some technologies/hardware that have languished or been delayed or dropped, but they comprise a tiny percentage of what Apple has been doing for the last 10 years and are not atypical for the computer industry. Insofar as they have made big changes (OS X, Intel) it's been of pursuit of more performance/better competitive position, not because they have a short attention span.

I also don't think it makes much sense to harp "looking serious" as a big win for corporate adoption. There's nothing "unserious" about the physical design of the iPhone. The core icons are no more or less "serious" than those on any modern PC (unless you want to declare the vector graphic-ish minimalism of RIM to somehow represent the official embodiment of "professional"), but that's a cartoonish, reductive take on what professionalism means. If you're worried about the icons that third party developers are using, just don't put them on the home screen. If you look at the actual UI within any of Apple's apps, they're a model of clarity and usability, which I would have thought would count as serious. But what I think you're talking about is an arbitrary set of design cues (monochrome, small text, thin lines, an effort to make screens appear as if they are bristling with "information", whether or not that enhances usability) which some people regard as "professional."

This has been a trap for self-descried "pros" for a long time: ease of use equals toy. Thus, "business phones" for many years have featured tiny text based UIs, manipulated with difficult to use styli, because of course arcane menu systems and grim, foreboding looking screens were the very mark of serious mindedness. Enlarge the text enough to be easily readable and make UI elements big enough to be manipulated by touch? Ha! It must be for babies!

But of course the iPhone has already irrevocably changed the general notion of what a smartphone UI "should" look like, with every other handset manufacturer rushing to provide something that works more like the iPhone. It would be silly for Apple to regress by incorporating any of the stupid UI nonsense that kept smartphones languishing in their ghetto just to prove that they're all grown up now. The iPhone UI isn't designed the way it is to make it "fun", it's designed the way it is to make it easy to use. Yes, it's somewhat pleasurable to be freed of terrible software design, but it's a fundamental misreading of what Apple is doing to imagine that sense of relief is the whole point and therefore the iPhone must only be for play.

Apple would do well to implement some of the specific functionality you mention, but any business worth its salt isn't going to reject a good tool because of some random notion of "too colorful" or "Apple is run by flakey artists" because those things aren't, in fact, true, and because the iPhone brings a great deal of functionality to the table in a format that people (employees) really like and which said employees are likely to be able to make use of without a lot of calls to IT.
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post #14 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

This has been a trap for self-descried "pros" for a long time: ease of use equals toy. Thus, "business phones" for many years have featured tiny text based UIs, manipulated with difficult to use styli, because of course arcane menu systems and grim, foreboding looking screens were the very mark of serious mindedness. Enlarge the text enough to be easily readable and make UI elements big enough to be manipulated by touch? Ha! babies!

Apple had the advantage the time the iPhone first hit the market with their better UI, even getting 30% compared to RIM 40% However RIM has struck back and now has over 55% of the market compared to iPhone's 19% (next week to increase naturally)

A smart phone is not cheap, a tool justifies itself more than a toy. If I was going to need a smart phone to make money with other RIM oriented businesses, I'll pick a RIM over the iPhone every time, it's because I'm going to pick what and whom I make my money from picks so we are both on the same page.

It's the same old story, like Windows, the business market determines what the consumer is going to use at home eventually. How many smart phones can one own or bother to keep up with?

Apple keeps trying to change the tide, but it always comes back and sweeps them away. It's because they don't start in business and work into the consumer market later.

They try to use the consumer market as a leverage to force change in business.

People will give up their iPhones for Crackberries if their paycheck is at stake, everytime.

Sure us "artists" can act irrational and storm out if they even dare to take our Mac's from us, good artists that can produce talented material and make the company image/money have a little power.

But not the corporate drones, your going to obey or hit the street with the rest of the bums.

And your going to be taking your corporate Crackberry home and training your kids how to use it so they can succeed too.

Sounds like Windows right?


Speaking of hippies have you seen the huge organic garden in front of Steve's house?

Nice house, nice historic neighborhood, he drives a nice car, but a nasty garden right on the front lawn. Strange...

The money he has he could own a whole farm and the workers etc., instead he has it on his front lawn!

Yep and about 10 (edit: foreign workers) working it too. What a eyesore the garden is. (edit to clarify)
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post #15 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Yea, it would take a drastic change to Apple itself and the look and feel of the iPhone and it's supporting software to even make a dent in RIMs corporate market share.

Apple is a consumer products company, period.

I changed my post to reflect that...

OK, I get it. I thought you were actually positing that Apple follow your (rediculous) list of suggestions. Instead, your point was that it was impossible.

That makes more sense--it is an arguable position (I hope it is not true, but seeing that I am not in the corporate world, I will leave it to others to argue...)

I retract my snarky "do you even read what you write?"
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post #16 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Yep and about 10 mexicans working it too. What a eyesore.

I regret my previous attempt to make nice...
There is no reason to be racist.
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post #17 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

OK, I get it. I thought you were actually positing that Apple follow your (rediculous) list of suggestions. Instead, your point was that it was impossible.

That makes more sense--it is an arguable position (I hope it is not true, but seeing that I am not in the corporate world, I will leave it to others to argue...)

I retract my snarky "do you even read what you write?"

Yes, Apple changing it's DNA into becoming more appealing to corporate customers and introducing a iPhone version that appeals to this market is entirely too late to do any damage to RIM.

Apple will always be at least second best.

Second is good of course.
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post #18 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

I regret my previous attempt to make nice...
There is no reason to be racist.

Not the mexicans themselves, the garden and people working in a high end residential neighborhood like it's a farm.

Shows where your mind is at.

Steve even had all the nice plants around the drive pulled out for nasty looking organic somethings...

Well it's his house, I guess. Just the garden is out of place and there is plenty of farmland for that sort of thing, the smell of manure is horrible too.

Why torture the neighbors? Come on Steve!
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post #19 of 99
Some IT guys were mentioning that the iPhone was no good for the enterprise because it doesn't do full background processing which causes some problems with software that needs full notification or something. Plus it doesn't run Javascript properly. Anyway, it's always something that the iPhone is short of that the BlackBerry can handle without a hitch. The iPhone is not going to be let in the enterprise just yet. 95% functionality doesn't cut it with IT. It's either 100% or stay the hell away.
post #20 of 99
I don't think a single data point (Windows vs. Mac) tells us much about the general movement of consumer tech to or from business.

The iPhone is in a radically different position from anything the original Mac every achieved, in that it is price competitive, has a large if not dominant market share (and that against long term entrenched incumbents), and partakes in the overwhelmingly dominant content distribution system.

It is also competing in a multi-vendor market, far different from the Wintel duopoly that squeezed out any competitors via a virtuous circle of market share/software development.

If anything, the iPhone would be the likely inheritor of that mantel, since the enormous success of the App Store means devs are flocking to the platform.

The BlackBerry has a certain cache, and does what it does very well. It is not, however, a platform that is likely to scale well as these devices become more evidently computers. The BlackBerry OS was not designed to be a general purpose computing device, it was designed to be an extremely efficient mobiles communication tool. While that feature set is quite important to business, it seems unlikely to me that business will settle for only that, once the general deployment of a pocketable computer that can be used for far more than email becomes the norm.

It would be as if business users had widely adopted desktop email stations, prior to the advent of "computers." The first such computers incorporated email, but not with quite the finesse of the dedicated terminal. Would it make sense to bet on the email terminal as holding fast?

The much more likely scenario would be for the computer, owing to its more flexible software, to rapidly incorporate whatever advantages the dedicated device had, while the dedicated device made increasingly compromised efforts to emulate the broader functionality of the computer.

I'd say that's what's going to happen to RIM, their recent market share successes notwithstanding. The future belongs to pocketable computers, and pocketable computers will be able to embrace and subsequently eclipse the functionality of each and every specialized, limited device.
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post #21 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Yes, Apple changing it's DNA into becoming more appealing to corporate customers and introducing a iPhone version that appeals to this market is entirely too late to do any damage to RIM.

Apple will always be at least second best.

Second is good of course.

See my post above. You're not looking at the big picture. RIM is the IBM Selectric on the eve of the personal computer. They can add "modern" features as quickly as they can, and for a while inertia and habit will keep them entrenched. But the larger technological tide, towards pocketable computers with general purpose operating systems, is not going to treat them kindly.
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post #22 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Yea, it would take a drastic change to Apple itself and the look and feel of the iPhone and it's supporting software to even make a dent in RIMs corporate market share.

Apple is a consumer products company, period.

I changed my post to reflect that...

I disagree! If Apple is serious about entering the enterprise, they can buy (hire) that talent/capability.

It's like saying "Apple will never succeed in the retail market", just because they weren't already in the market... or: the music player market; the cell phone market; the smart phone market, the online music/video/application distribution market... ad nauseam.

in each of the above, Apple was not first-- rather, they looked at what existed and then did it the "Apple Way", often buying or hiring needed capability.

If and when Apple perceives "entering the enterprise" to be in its best interest (with an acceptable ROI), they will do it!

Dick
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post #23 of 99
I'm Steve Jobs and I approved this message.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #24 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Some IT guys were mentioning that the iPhone was no good for the enterprise because it doesn't do full background processing which causes some problems with software that needs full notification or something. Plus it doesn't run Javascript properly. Anyway, it's always something that the iPhone is short of that the BlackBerry can handle without a hitch. The iPhone is not going to be let in the enterprise just yet. 95% functionality doesn't cut it with IT. It's either 100% or stay the hell away.

The iPhone runs Javascript perfectly fine.

I think you mean Java and J2ME, and it could indeed be the case that this is an issue if a company has in-house mobile applications written for these devices. J9 provides a full Java VM on PocketPC devices for example (and it's pretty nifty). The Palm Pre also includes a Java VM, so surely soon it too will be supporting these applications.

Other companies will simply have web based applications where suitable, and this won't be a big hurdle.
post #25 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Some IT guys were mentioning that the iPhone was no good for the enterprise because it doesn't do full background processing which causes some problems with software that needs full notification or something. Plus it doesn't run Javascript properly. Anyway, it's always something that the iPhone is short of that the BlackBerry can handle without a hitch. The iPhone is not going to be let in the enterprise just yet. 95% functionality doesn't cut it with IT. It's either 100% or stay the hell away.

And we all know, if corporate IT says no, then it's no.

Thems the geeks in charge. Make them happy or as happy as possible with no other viable alternative and your set.

Roll in corporate and then push down into consumer,

You can always scare the consumers too "your kids won't be able to get a job unless they know the Blackberry"

Worked for Microsoft. And why Apple's approach from the consumer end doesn't work. Except for the rich niche.
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post #26 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'm Steve Jobs and I approved this message.

Psss I stole your license plate...
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #27 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Yes, Apple changing it's DNA into becoming more appealing to corporate customers and introducing a iPhone version that appeals to this market is entirely too late to do any damage to RIM.

Apple will always be at least second best.

Second is good of course.

The Windows v. [Mac] example is not valid in this case. Most people generally bring their work phones home with them and many use as personal phones. They don’t do this with their work PCs, except for some notebooks users, but I think you’ll find that there are a higher percentage of Mac notebooks than Mac desktops because people who get to work away from home are more likely to get to make some choices in the machine type, at least experience.

You think that it’s too late for Apple (or anyone?) to damage RiM then you have no idea what a beating RiM will be facing and how technology moves. Even if RiM —on every carrier and with many different phone models with varying prices— beats iPhone unit sales each quarter, RiM will be losing out as they have historically made the vast majority of their money from the BES side. RiM’s advantage there is dwindling. What was a novel solution that has been highly profitable for RiM simply isn’t needed like it was in years past. They will lose customers because of the cost and will eventually have to cut back prices.

Why this is not widely understood, I’ll never know, but Apple doesn’t put marketshare above profits. Having RiM beat them in unit sales means nothing when Apple is beating them in net profit of sales. Also, using a quarter well after the iPhone was introduced with many knowing another on the way, while RiM is offering BOGO through carriers isn’t exactly game/set/match for the company. At best it’s minor, short term victory for the Curve and at worst it’s Pyrrhic.

That is not to say that RiM will fall. These all or nothing stances posters here take is always unnerving. RiM has a lot of money and lot talent. While their business model will change they will surely live on for the foreseeable future as the de facto business phone. The keyboard is simply too important for many users.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #28 of 99
Good. This road, Apple, is gonna take you to the right place. Industry insiders on AI have been being sure about it since always.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #29 of 99
The historical track of PCs vs. Mac is a useless model for judging the progression of the smartphone market. For all we know, it's completely unique and the product of irreproducible circumstances, because we don't have any other examples of "the advent of personal computing."

But consider what that history might have looked like if Apple in 1984 had had upwards of 25% market share, against multiple competitors, with products that were as cheap if not cheaper than the competition, in a market with no de facto hardware standard and very little software lock-in?

And if they actually had a massive advantage in the amount of software available for the Mac, not to mention what was generally acknowledged as hands down the best distribution system for that software? And far and away the most developer enthusiasm?

And, as Solopism mentions, they had done all that with devices that you kept on your person, completely blurring the distinction "business" and "home" use?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #30 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The Windows v. [Mac] example is not valid in this case. Most people generally bring their work phones home with them and many use as personal phones. They dont do this with their work PCs, except for some notebooks users, but I think youll find that there are a higher percentage of Mac notebooks than Mac desktops because people who get to work away from home are more likely to get to make some choices in the machine type, at least experience.

You think that its too late for Apple (or anyone?) to damage RiM then you have no idea what a beating RiM will be facing and how technology moves. Even if RiM on every carrier and with many different phone models with varying prices beats iPhone unit sales each quarter, RiM will be losing out as they have historically made the vast majority of their money from the BES side. RiMs advantage there is dwindling. What was a novel solution that has been highly profitable for RiM simply isnt needed like it was in years past. They will lose customers because of the cost and will eventually have to cut back prices.

Why this is widely understood, Ill never know, but Apple doesnt put marketshare above profits. Having RiM beat them in unit sales means nothing when Apple is beating them in net profit of sales. Also, using a quarter well after the iPhone was introduced with many knowing another on the way, while RiM is offering BOGO through carriers isnt exactly game/set/match for the company. At best its minor, short term victory for the Curve and at worst its Pyrrhic.

That is not to say that RiM will fall. These all or nothing stances posters here take is always unnerving. RiM has a lot of money and lot talent. While their business model will change they will surely live on for the foreseeable future as the de facto business phone. The keyboard is simply too important for many users.

RIM has 55% of the market; iPhone 20%. You do the math- ain't gonna happen.
post #31 of 99
Apple has the challenge of simultaneously learning what enterprise needs while rejecting the bad technology that pervades business IT.

Sometimes I think it might be better to start with small companies and define an Apple Business way, then work their way up with a superior offering.

They could start with small companies they are already familiar with - say media companies - not only providing tech infrastructure, but a whole-business process. Isn't someone from Quicken/Intuit/? on the board already?

Another point: There's a big difference between companies for whom IT is part of their competitive advantage and those that want IT to get all the 'other stuff' out of the way so they can concentrate on what they do best. This latter category could really use some Apple goodness.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #32 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The historical track of PCs vs. Mac is a useless model for judging the progression of the smartphone market.

No it's not - Apple used a closed system for both and the results will wind up the same.
post #33 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Not the mexicans themselves, the garden and people working in a high end residential neighborhood like it's a farm.

If you point was that having people work in the garden was unattractive, then why mention their nationality. If it was not important to your point (Mexicans working in plain view in a nice neighborhood, as I read it) then you would not have mentioned it.

Furthermore, how do you even know they were from Mexico? I have had meny people toss out Mexican as an "acceptable slur" towards people of (apparent) Latino origin.

Quote:
Shows where your mind is at.

Maybe. I suppose I am very sensitive to racisim towards my family members, though I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...
Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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post #34 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Speaking of hippies have you seen the huge organic garden in front of Steve's house?

Nice house, nice historic neighborhood, he drives a nice car, but a nasty garden right on the front lawn. Strange...

The money he has he could own a whole farm and the workers etc., instead he has it on his front lawn!

Yep and about 10 mexicans working it too. What a eyesore the garden is. (edit to clarify)

Dude, you just lost the argument with that crap. Your other arguements are failing, so you fall back on good ol' ad hominem.

Weak.
post #35 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No it's not - Apple used a closed system for both and the results will wind up the same.

In what sense is the iPhone a "closed system"? Compared to what?

Also, my point about the history of the PC market is that it is a single data point. You simply can't make broad predictions about tech trends based on a single data point, no matter how much post hoc rationalization one might make about what that history "proves."
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #36 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

In what sense is the iPhone a "closed system"? Compared to what?

Also, my point about the history of the PC market is that it is a single data point. You simply can't make broad predictions about tech trends based on a single data point, no matter how much post hoc rationalization one might make about what that history "proves."

1) Its funny how he says it will fail because of the closed system, without once considering the closed BB HW and OS system.

2) Its doubly funny how he thinks that closed systems will fail when smartphones and PMPs have done quite well on that front. He cant remember what he wrote a single post back in the same thread so I guess we cant expect him to remember the iPod model.

3) You have asked him a rational question, do you really expect a rational answer?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #37 of 99
[QUOTE=solipsism;1436102]1)
Quote:
It’s funny how he says it will fail because of the closed system, without once considering the closed BB HW and OS system.

Never said it will fail- STOP LYING. I said it will remain in second place. IF THAT'S FAILING THEN BY YOUR REASONING aPPLE HAS ALREADY FAILED 10 TIMES OVER.


Quote:
2) It’s doubly funny how he thinks that closed systems will fail when smartphones and PMPs have done quite well on that front. He can’t remember what he wrote a single post back in the same thread so I guess we can’t expect him to remember the iPod model.

Right and that's why at this stage in the game RIM has 55% and Apple a mere 20%. iPod model?

Quote:
3) You have asked him a rational question, do you really expect a rational answer?

Yes and not a emotional defensive name-calling response like you give.
post #38 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Its funny how he says it will fail because of the closed system, without once considering the closed BB HW and OS system.

2) Its doubly funny how he thinks that closed systems will fail when smartphones and PMPs have done quite well on that front. He cant remember what he wrote a single post back in the same thread so I guess we cant expect him to remember the iPod model.

3) You have asked him a rational question, do you really expect a rational answer?

I guess the idea is that Apple should be licensing the iPhone OS to a bunch of commodity handset manufactures, like MS. Because that's how MS has achieved the prohibitive advantage in the cell phone market that they enjoy today.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #39 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Right and that's why at this stage in the game RIM has 55% and Apple a mere 20%.

Uh, and they've achieved that with a system that's more "closed" than Apple's, so......

At any rate, they've been at it quite a while, while Apple has only been in this market for a few years, so it's a little premature to start throwing around market share numbers.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #40 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

At any rate, they've been at it quite a while, while Apple has only been in this market for a few years, so it's a little premature to start throwing around market share numbers.

Now that's intelligent.
If RIM sucks so bad it should be much closer. I guess people are ignorant like those that buy glossy screens.
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