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Apple kicks iPhone for enterprise efforts into overdrive - Page 2

post #41 of 99
6/18/09 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

the historical track of pcs vs. Mac is a useless model for judging the progression of the smartphone market. For all we know, it's completely unique and the product of irreproducible circumstances, because we don't have any other examples of "the advent of personal computing."

but consider what that history might have looked like if apple in 1984 had had upwards of 25% market share, against multiple competitors, with products that were as cheap if not cheaper than the competition, in a market with no de facto hardware standard and very little software lock-in?

And if they actually had a massive advantage in the amount of software available for the mac, not to mention what was generally acknowledged as hands down the best distribution system for that software? And far and away the most developer enthusiasm?

and, as solopism mentions, they had done all that with devices that you kept on your person, completely blurring the distinction "business" and "home" use?

qft++
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #42 of 99
6/18/09 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Apple has the challenge of simultaneously learning what enterprise needs while rejecting the bad technology that pervades business IT.

Sometimes I think it might be better to start with small companies and define an Apple Business way, then work their way up with a superior offering.

They could start with small companies they are already familiar with - say media companies - not only providing tech infrastructure, but a whole-business process. Isn't someone from Quicken/Intuit/? on the board already?

Another point: There's a big difference between companies for whom IT is part of their competitive advantage and those that want IT to get all the 'other stuff' out of the way so they can concentrate on what they do best. This latter category could really use some Apple goodness.

No,no. I don't think, they'll do it that way. You're not a serious player on that market, unless you manage to contract with some "mammoths". Selling 10 phones to Friends'n'Family Inc. won't change anything.
Apple did it with desktop computers. They can figure that out with phones, no doubt.
Apple's phone is just two years old business.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #43 of 99
6/18/09 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woode View Post

Dude, you just lost the argument with that crap. Your other arguements are failing, so you fall back on good ol' ad hominem.

Weak.

Not, I started another subject since "hippies" was brought up.
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post #44 of 99
6/18/09 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Now that's intelligent.
If RIM sucks so bad it should be much closer. I guess people are ignorant like those that buy glossy screens.

Huh? That Apple hasn't, in two years, dispatched RIM, the acknowledged entrenched incumbent of business phones, means RIM will forever more reign supreme?

RIM doesn't suck so bad, they have a niche model going forward, unless they write an entirely new, from-the-ground up OS good enough to scale.

A really good email device looks good when you're mostly used to nothing at all. It looks increasingly less good when the next guy's handset is a fully functional computer with a vast array of apps and functionality and a seamless continuum from handset to desktop to server.
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post #45 of 99
6/18/09 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I disagree! If Apple is serious about entering the enterprise, they can buy (hire) that talent/capability.

It's like saying "Apple will never succeed in the retail market", just because they weren't already in the market... or: the music player market; the cell phone market; the smart phone market, the online music/video/application distribution market... ad nauseam.

in each of the above, Apple was not first-- rather, they looked at what existed and then did it the "Apple Way", often buying or hiring needed capability.

If and when Apple perceives "entering the enterprise" to be in its best interest (with an acceptable ROI), they will do it!

Dick

Well I'm glad you think so positive.

Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.

It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.
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post #46 of 99
6/18/09 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

Definitely agree that iTunes isn't the software that businesses would want their users syncing with. A corporate syncing tool that looked, well, corporate, even if it is iTunes under the hood, would be a good idea.

OTOH I doubt many businesses care that their users also like music, and Apple won't complain if business computers get iTunes, and thus more iTunes users.

Agreed.
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post #47 of 99
6/18/09 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Well I'm glad you think so positive.

Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.

It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.

The advantage is not gone when the device is just now getting into its stride with the new OS features of v3.0. We’ve seen companies not go for the first version and then turn full circle for the second OS version and companies will be even more open to the iPhone. That doesn’t mean they’ll stop using BB’s but having IT accept the iPhone is certainly an option. And, as I stated earlier, teh high cost of BES will also be persuasive.

As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why can’t it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and it’s gaming platform for PC’s, too. Exceling in one area does not mean you can’t excel in the other.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #48 of 99
6/18/09 at 3:48pm
The argument that Apple can't succeed in business because it caters to consumers first doesn't make much sense, IMHO. Look at RIM... they are trying very hard to gain in the consumer space. Are they destined to fail because they cater to business first? I don't think they're failing with consumers just by a cursory look at what non-business users are carrying around on their person.

All of Apple's software initiatives to attract corporate users to the iPhone aren't going to go very far without two important things that Apple hasn't addressed:

1) Tie-in to AT&T. Not there's anything wrong with AT&T but corporations don't want that baggage with the iPhone. There are many corporations that have deals with VerizonWireless right now. They aren't going to make that wholesale change just to get some iPhones.

2) Lack of tethered 3G internet. This is a must for many corporations.
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post #49 of 99
6/18/09 at 3:50pm
Well Its a good start but with my windows mobile smartphones i can have everybodies phone as part of the domain and control them from the servers.

Yes the iphone has exchange support but I dont see it joining domains anytime soon.
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post #50 of 99
6/18/09 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

If you point was that having people work in the garden was unattractive, then why mention their nationality. If it was not important to your point (Mexicans working in plain view in a nice neighborhood, as I read it) then you would not have mentioned it.

Furthermore, how do you even know they were from Mexico? I have had meny people toss out Mexican as an "acceptable slur" towards people of (apparent) Latino origin.



Maybe. I suppose I am very sensitive to racisim towards my family members, though I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...

mactripper just delete mexican for garden workers.
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post #51 of 99
6/18/09 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The advantage is not gone when the device is just now getting into its stride with the new OS features of v3.0. Weve seen companies not go for the first version and then turn full circle for the second OS version and companies will be even more open to the iPhone. That doesnt mean theyll stop using BBs but having IT accept the iPhone is certainly an option. And, as I stated earlier, teh high cost of BES will also be persuasive.

As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why cant it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and its gaming platform for PCs, too. Excelling in one area does not mean you cant excel in the other.

What mac tripper fails to see is the incredible ground-swelling of company employees demanding the iphone. and apple has addressed most of the early complaints about the first 2 g model, push, security etc etc.


I feel with all those corporate apps on the way for the 3gs iphone. it will be unbeatable

Just saying


9
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post #52 of 99
6/18/09 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

If you point was that having people work in the garden was unattractive, then why mention their nationality. If it was not important to your point (Mexicans working in plain view in a nice neighborhood, as I read it) then you would not have mentioned it.

Furthermore, how do you even know they were from Mexico? I have had meny people toss out Mexican as an "acceptable slur" towards people of (apparent) Latino origin.



Maybe. I suppose I am very sensitive to racisim towards my family members, though I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...


Your first paragraph is not worthy of a response if your going to take what I said out of context, heck misquote me totally!, then troll with it like I offended you or persons of Mexican nationality..

I mentioned they were Mexican as a observation, that's all.

And no it's not unusual to see Mexicans working on wealthy people's lawns in well to do neighborhoods.

What is unusual is to see 10 or so people working on a farm on someone's front lawn in a very well to do neighborhood.

That they were Mexican, just added to the unusual situation, thus I mentioned it.

Usually people with money can buy all their own food and certainly don't need a crew of farm workers on their front lawn. Even more since something like that is better suited to farm zoned land where the smell of manure is tolerated, not in a very nice neighborhood where Steve Jobs house is.

So it is strange, yes it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

...I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...

I think your oversensitive to a fault.

I wonder if there is a name for a phobia of misperceived xenophobes!!

Kind of lends credence to the saying: "Every man is a wolf to another man until he gets to know him better"
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post #53 of 99
6/18/09 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

mactripper just delete mexican for garden workers.

Yea, I replaced it with "foreign workers"

I don't have a problem editing, that's what it's there for.

Although I believe that was really unnecessary, but hey, for today I'll be nice and show I'm not a asshole.
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post #54 of 99
6/18/09 at 5:49pm
What people aren't grasping is the move to Cocoa roots throughout has brought back key Cocoa Developers to Apple who pioneered much of NeXT's Enterprise focused businesses.

But I'll leave that up to people who don't know who they are to find Waldos.
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post #55 of 99
6/18/09 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why cant it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and its gaming platform for PCs, too. Exceling in one area does not mean you cant excel in the other.

Windows PC's don't make a good general consumer device, or else Apple would have been dead long ago!

And PC gaming is dying in favor of 'oh my gosh' more consumer friendly consoles.

The iPhone is a good consumer device, it can be used somewhat in corporations, but it's chiefly a consumer device in my opinion.

RIM is entrenching and waiting for the AT&T/Apple contract to expire, because they know Apple is going to try to break out and gain more market share a their expense.

In my opinion Apple will need a whole new device to convince the corporate market, with software solutions to boot. Like running word and excel on the iPhone XL for instance.

Five years was too long of a contract, Apple should have done 2.
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post #56 of 99
6/18/09 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Well I'm glad you think so positive.

Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.

It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.

You take a pretty dim view of corporate America's ability to distinguish between content, software, and hardware.

I assume we can expect corporate America to give up on the internet, since it has gained a reputation as a "porn delivery system"? I remember when the big dig at Macs was that there weren't any games available, while PCs had games aplenty. Did that time coincide with the perception that Macs were more businesslike than PCs?

Your argument strikes me as a variant on the tech site commentary favorite, "So what if the iPhone has tons of apps, they're mostly fart apps." Which to say, it completely misses the point and comes off as a slightly desperate effort to deny what Apple has done.
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post #57 of 99
6/18/09 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Windows PC's don't make a good general consumer device, or else Apple would have been dead long ago!

And PC gaming is dying in favor of 'oh my gosh' more consumer friendly consoles.

The iPhone is a good consumer device, it can be used somewhat in corporations, but it's chiefly a consumer device in my opinion.

RIM is entrenching and waiting for the AT&T/Apple contract to expire, because they know Apple is going to try to break out and gain more market share a their expense.

In my opinion Apple will need a whole new device to convince the corporate market, with software solutions to boot. Like running word and excel on the iPhone XL for instance.

Five years was too long of a contract, Apple should have done 2.

People don't seem to have any problem wrapping their heads around the idea that the same laptop that runs their business apps can be used to play games, blog, do recreational surfing, edit the family photo album, edit home videos, chat with friends, listen to music, watch movies, or schedule birthdays and dinner parties.

What might prove to be a problem is a laptop that isn't very good at any of those things, but has a temporary lead in a few business apps.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #58 of 99
6/18/09 at 6:41pm
It is frightening to read that people who have no vested interest in Apple talking as if they know what its future is based on their perception of the past.

It is equally frightening people are echoing that they know best what is going on through argument of things of the past.

Apple is today and tomorrow, as what and where is tomorrow is anyone's guess, my guess is Apple will innovate its way into the enterprise subtly thru their trade mark of ease of use in both hardware and software.

We are just bystanders and the people working in Apple know what is going on and where they are heading. We are only guessing here.

BTW many heroes of yesterdays are no longer relevant today and what is relevant today and tomorrow may be replace by another set of heroes.

So today's game is innovation while let us do what bystanders to best observe and enjoy whatever new innovation comes our way.
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post #59 of 99
6/18/09 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Hope it will have some impact. But I doubt it.

A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.

Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.
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post #60 of 99
6/18/09 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.

Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.

If the IT Dept can't service it- how is that petty?
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post #61 of 99
6/18/09 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.

Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.

I agree. My original point -- which I withdrew, since I did not want to start a flame war with the IT folks here -- put better, was (sort of) that many IT departments are indeed entrenched and petty. They have too much invested in their own legacy decisions, training, human capital, infrastructure, vendor relations, professional contacts and seminars and conferences, 'ways of doing business,' and sheer laziness, to be open to switching.
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post #62 of 99
6/18/09 at 7:47pm
I've been reading these message boards for the past two years because of the high level of content that so many users usually post. I have failed to register for an account up till now since I felt that many of my own views were already represented by so many of you.

But now, I'm here to say that I just can't take it anymore. Either MacTripper or techstud seems to fill every message thread with their ridiculously shortsighted opinions that scream of their ignorance of what innovation looks like and why its embraced by so many.

We understand you don't like glossy screens. Seriously, we have heard your complaint loud and clear. We get it. Can you please move on? It's like listening to someone that still complains that Coke was better when it came in bottles. It doesn't matter anymore, move on.

Secondly, a group of people working in a yard in a neighborhood where you don't live deserve as much respect as your own neighbor who hires the local teenager to work in his yard. You neither know their nationality, nor their country of origin. To assume that you do speaks to a level of racism that may not be exaggerated, but is none the less real and offensive.

Thirdly, if you don't work in corporate IT or even in corporate management, then don't speak as if you have an authoritative position on what they would want or demand from a product that it sounds like you don't use. Corporate America is not a conglomerate of companies that check with each other to see if its okay to venture out and try something that is new and innovative. It is made of individuals who have their own passions and ideas about what will drive their businesses forward. Company 'A' doesn't use BB's because company 'B' does; they use them because it is what makes the most sense for them at that time.

Fourthly, take your time to think about what you want to say before you say it. Just because you edit a post doesn't mean that you never said it in the first place. Think, write, and then get out of the way. "The man who talks the most is usually the one who says nothing worth listening to."

Fifthly, if you're not an authority on a topic don't talk like you are one. No one outside ATT and Apple has any idea what the specifics of their contract entail. You don't know how long they are locked in, nor do you know what Verizon was or wasn't willing to concede to them. Judging by the long line of armored trucks backed up to Apple I would guess that their agreement with ATT has been quite profitable for them to date. I for one am grateful for a company that has their head screwed on straight. Financial health today means more innovation tomorrow.

Sorry for so long a post, but I just couldn't take it anymore.
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post #63 of 99
6/18/09 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

If the IT Dept can't service it- how is that petty?

Other than perhaps changing batteries (which anyone can do about as well as an IT Dept with a phone that allows it), what 'service' does an IT Dept provide for RIM that it cannot/does not/could not/will not (hypothetically) provide for Apple?
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post #64 of 99
6/18/09 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnveiledFaces View Post

I've been reading these message boards for the past two years because of the high level of content that so many users usually post. I have failed to register for an account up till now since I felt that many of my own views were already represented by so many of you.

Welcome to the boards, I'm new here too actually, i like to talk to peep all sortts of peeps!

Quote:
But now, I'm here to say that I just can't take it anymore. Either MacTripper or techstud seems to fill every message thread with their ridiculously shortsighted opinions that scream of their ignorance of what innovation looks like and why its embraced by so many.

Is that right? I didn't know techstud and I was so alike!

Quote:
We understand you don't like glossy screens. Seriously, we have heard your complaint loud and clear. We get it. Can you please move on? It's like listening to someone that still complains that Coke was better when it came in bottles. It doesn't matter anymore, move on.

Yep, them nasty glary things getting in my ways to seeing them boards and writtin my posts!!

wich buttonm cantn se em, glare in the wa yyy matee!

Quote:
Secondly, a group of people working in a yard in a neighborhood where you don't live deserve as much respect as your own neighbor who hires the local teenager to work in his yard. You neither know their nationality, nor their country of origin. To assume that you do speaks to a level of racism that may not be exaggerated, but is none the less real and offensive.

Yer I do now them nationalities becauase I aksed them arrr!!

como esta? bueno dios amigo! meihco is bueno! arrrs

real mexican food is good, bu tpeople in jersy, never know ho wgood it really is!

Quote:
Thirdly, if you don't work in corporate IT or even in corporate management, then don't speak as if you have an authoritative position on what they would want or demand from a product that it sounds like you don't use. Corporate America is not a conglomerate of companies that check with each other to see if its okay to venture out and try something that is new and innovative. It is made of individuals who have their own passions and ideas about what will drive their businesses forward. Company 'A' doesn't use BB's because company 'B' does; they use them because it is what makes the most sense for them at that time.

Arrr I'm a observer of human behaiviors, an very smart one at it matey! You walk 2 feet I've read yer mind! donna make me a racist, noo I love peeeps especially my familia

comprende bingacovesa rojo grande? heheehe

Quote:
Fourthly, take your time to think about what you want to say before you say it. Just because you edit a post doesn't mean that you never said it in the first place. Think, write, and then get out of the way. "The man who talks the most is usually the one who says nothing worth listening to."

arrr me posting is tough all these glarys reflections blocking the screennn arrr!

Quote:
Fifthly, if you're not an authority on a topic don't talk like you are one. No one outside ATT and Apple has any idea what the specifics of their contract entail. You don't know how long they are locked in, nor do you know what Verizon was or wasn't willing to concede to them. Judging by the long line of armored trucks backed up to Apple I would guess that their agreement with ATT has been quite profitable for them to date. I for one am grateful for a company that has their head screwed on straight. Financial health today means more innovation tomorrow.

Sorry for so long a post, but I just couldn't take it anymore.

arrr welcome to the posting boards here matey! glad to have yer venting your spleen for uss!

thats all it's really is becauese Apple, they do what the want anyway right mate?

arrs yes matey I been tak'n too many sips from rum a dumm dumm jug today and feeeling fine.e....

have drink on me matey! arrrs

annnd materye neverr take me or any ome seriouss!

errrrrrr pink elepehantssss

GOT IT, YER LOOKING FOR A SON TO SCHOOL, first born child you are too

see I knowssss why I gootta get drunk...
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post #65 of 99
6/18/09 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Apple had the advantage the time the iPhone first hit the market with their better UI, even getting 30% compared to RIM 40% However RIM has struck back and now has over 55% of the market compared to iPhone's 19% (next week to increase naturally)

A smart phone is not cheap, a tool justifies itself more than a toy. If I was going to need a smart phone to make money with other RIM oriented businesses, I'll pick a RIM over the iPhone every time, it's because I'm going to pick what and whom I make my money from picks so we are both on the same page.

It's the same old story, like Windows, the business market determines what the consumer is going to use at home eventually. How many smart phones can one own or bother to keep up with?

Apple keeps trying to change the tide, but it always comes back and sweeps them away. It's because they don't start in business and work into the consumer market later.

They try to use the consumer market as a leverage to force change in business.

People will give up their iPhones for Crackberries if their paycheck is at stake, everytime.

Sure us "artists" can act irrational and storm out if they even dare to take our Mac's from us, good artists that can produce talented material and make the company image/money have a little power.

But not the corporate drones, your going to obey or hit the street with the rest of the bums.

And your going to be taking your corporate Crackberry home and training your kids how to use it so they can succeed too.

Sounds like Windows right?


Speaking of hippies have you seen the huge organic garden in front of Steve's house?

Nice house, nice historic neighborhood, he drives a nice car, but a nasty garden right on the front lawn. Strange...

The money he has he could own a whole farm and the workers etc., instead he has it on his front lawn!

Yep and about 10 (edit: foreign workers) working it too. What a eyesore the garden is. (edit to clarify)

OK, since I work for a Fortune 50 company that was part of the initial testing group for the 2.0 OS, I can tell you that from an infrastructure perspective the iPhone is very attractive and especially now since they applied so many enterprise upgrades. BES are expensive pieces of additional equipment and my company struggles justifying that expense - except of course for executive use. If Apple starts making the inroads it seems to be making - look for RIM to scramble to significantly discount their servers (their bread&butter money makers) to maintain share or slow down share erosion. Whether another company we partner with has RIM infrastructure or not is largely immaterial to our own needs. People will give up a lot of things when a paycheck is on the line so your argument is specious at best. Let's look at the history of Windows insertion into the business marketplace. It was successful not because it was the best but because Microsoft essentially gave away the OS initially, and charged for Office. Once the dependency was established, they began charging more and more for the OS, adding on functionality like mail-handling, file/print, webhosting and so on. The primary three revenue streams for Microsoft are the desktop/server OSes and Office period. Nearly every other effort is either marginal or losing them money.

Your comments and speculation reflect a rather disconcerting lack of experience in the large corporate environment. I finally recently registered after observing for so long because commentary like yours is so full of errors and fallacious logic that it needed to be answered from an experienced pov.
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post #66 of 99
6/18/09 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

If the IT Dept can't service it- how is that petty?

Frequently, corporate technology teams are driven not by what makes sense from an infrastructure perspective but from the needs, wants and desires of the executives. An executive decides he/she likes a technology, and turns around to the technology team and says we need to make this happen. Fortunately most core infrastructure is immune to that influence in most respects, but where handheld devices or computers are concerned - it can be wide-open. And the tech team better be able to onboard support and infrastructure in a timely fashion. Disclaimer: I am a technology manager for a Fortune 50 company.
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post #67 of 99
6/18/09 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

OK, since I work for a Fortune 50 company that was part of the initial testing group for the 2.0 OS, I can tell you that from an infrastructure perspective the iPhone is very attractive and especially now since they applied so many enterprise upgrades. BES are expensive pieces of additional equipment and my company struggles justifying that expense - except of course for executive use. If Apple starts making the inroads it seems to be making - look for RIM to scramble to significantly discount their servers (their bread&butter money makers) to maintain share or slow down share erosion. Whether another company we partner with has RIM infrastructure or not is largely immaterial to our own needs. People will give up a lot of things when a paycheck is on the line so your argument is specious at best. Let's look at the history of Windows insertion into the business marketplace. It was successful not because it was the best but because Microsoft essentially gave away the OS initially, and charged for Office. Once the dependency was established, they began charging more and more for the OS, adding on functionality like mail-handling, file/print, webhosting and so on. The primary three revenue streams for Microsoft are the desktop/server OSes and Office period. Nearly every other effort is either marginal or losing them money.

Your comments and speculation reflect a rather disconcerting lack of experience in the large corporate environment. I finally recently registered after observing for so long because commentary like yours is so full of errors and fallacious logic that it needed to be answered from an experienced pov.

Sobering up a little here. (I almost wrote slobbering up )

Thank you for your insight there and your point of view is very much welcome, you will make a valuable contribution to this board.

And, I do believe Apple has made some recent changes for the better to appeal to corporate customers.

But my opinion it's a bit too late, the surprise attack ability into RIMs turf has been lost due to inaction by Apple. That's my main point of my argument, not what Apple is doing now, but what they missed by not paying attention and taking the advantage while they could have.



And I must be good at something, I got TWO 2 (dos bingas!) people to sign up to AppleInsider in one post!!
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #68 of 99
6/18/09 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

If the IT Dept can't service it- how is that petty?

Are you serious? You think the IT department 'services' cell phones?

EDIT:
personal attack
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post #69 of 99
6/18/09 at 11:20pm
Quote:
take on rivals Research in Motion and Microsoft

I fail to see how exactly this "taking" should work.... You actually HAVE TO BUY Exchange in order for iPhone in the enterprise to make sense. Until SL Server, there is no "taking on". They actually help Micosorft a lot. Want this new shiny iPhone in your business? Buy Exchange server 2007, because without it, you can't even invite people from the Calendar app!

This inviting thig, which is limited only to Exchange (and I don't believe there are any technical hurdles in this), is my personal favourite, as regards the "The Worst Thing About OS 3.0" competition... together with being unable co copy messages in Mail, only move them (= no Gmail tagging). I wouldn't be surprised if there existed a treaty between Apple and MS about supporting invites only when using Exchange 2007. Why in the world would Apple do this on their own? How exactly could they benefit on restricting the feature?

Well, at least we have MMS -- sending a few tens of kb for an outrageous price. Welcome to the past!
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post #70 of 99
6/18/09 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkvasnicka View Post

You actually HAVE TO BUY Exchange in order for iPhone in the enterprise to make sense.

No, not really. Plenty of companies are moving to outsource their exchange services because it costs them less money to do so, especially when you factor in not only the cost of the server itself, but also the salary / benefits / etc. of the person who maintains it. There are many MANY companies now offering hosted exchange services, so actually having your very own exchange server is not an entry barrier at all.
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post #71 of 99
6/19/09 at 12:35am
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Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

No, not really. Plenty of companies are moving to outsource their exchange services because it costs them less money to do so, especially when you factor in not only the cost of the server itself, but also the salary / benefits / etc. of the person who maintains it. There are many MANY companies now offering hosted exchange services, so actually having your very own exchange server is not an entry barrier at all.

But that doesn't change the fact that you are dependent on Exchange. Apple simply uses the iPhone momentum to help MS with their Exchange business. And from what I see, I belive it's deliberate.
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post #72 of 99
6/19/09 at 3:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkvasnicka View Post

I fail to see how exactly this "taking" should work.... You actually HAVE TO BUY Exchange in order for iPhone in the enterprise to make sense.

Not quite. As an example, our corporate email is hosted by Google for a small monthly fee. Works perfectly well with the iPhone. No Exchange is needed. As already pointed out, there are also hundreds of cost-efficient hosted Exchange providers out there.

I am not suggesting that existing RIM customers will migrate to the iPhone tomorrow. But there is certainly a market segment for which a hosted mail service coupled with iPhones is a far cheaper, easier to maintain and more flexible solution than RIM/Blackberry. This is before you start comparing the handsets themselves. On the latter point, just think of non-US markets in which people communicate in more than one language: the virtual keyboard and multi-language support of the iPhone give it a distinct advantage.
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post #73 of 99
6/19/09 at 4:14am
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Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I agree. My original point -- which I withdrew, since I did not want to start a flame war with the IT folks here -- put better, was (sort of) that many IT departments are indeed entrenched and petty. They have too much invested in their own legacy decisions, training, human capital, infrastructure, vendor relations, professional contacts and seminars and conferences, 'ways of doing business,' and sheer laziness, to be open to switching.

Unless that IT guy loves apple or the females offer him favors to switch to iphone .


9
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post #74 of 99
6/19/09 at 4:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

Are you serious? You think the IT department 'services' cell phones?

HEY edit no name calling

EDIT: Removed attack from other post
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post #75 of 99
6/19/09 at 4:26am
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Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

Are you serious? You think the IT department 'services' cell phones? You are such a bozo.

Listen *- I didn't mean "service" in the literal sense, if you even know what that means. The prior responder knew exactly what i meant.

EDIT: Personal attack
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post #76 of 99
6/19/09 at 4:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnveiledFaces View Post

I've been reading these message boards for the past two years because of the high level of content that so many users usually post. I have failed to register for an account up till now since I felt that many of my own views were already represented by so many of you.

But now, I'm here to say that I just can't take it anymore. Either MacTripper or techstud seems to fill every message thread with their ridiculously shortsighted opinions that scream of their ignorance of what innovation looks like and why its embraced by so many.

We understand you don't like glossy screens. Seriously, we have heard your complaint loud and clear. We get it. Can you please move on? It's like listening to someone that still complains that Coke was better when it came in bottles. It doesn't matter anymore, move on.

Secondly, a group of people working in a yard in a neighborhood where you don't live deserve as much respect as your own neighbor who hires the local teenager to work in his yard. You neither know their nationality, nor their country of origin. To assume that you do speaks to a level of racism that may not be exaggerated, but is none the less real and offensive.

Thirdly, if you don't work in corporate IT or even in corporate management, then don't speak as if you have an authoritative position on what they would want or demand from a product that it sounds like you don't use. Corporate America is not a conglomerate of companies that check with each other to see if its okay to venture out and try something that is new and innovative. It is made of individuals who have their own passions and ideas about what will drive their businesses forward. Company 'A' doesn't use BB's because company 'B' does; they use them because it is what makes the most sense for them at that time.

Fourthly, take your time to think about what you want to say before you say it. Just because you edit a post doesn't mean that you never said it in the first place. Think, write, and then get out of the way. "The man who talks the most is usually the one who says nothing worth listening to."

Fifthly, if you're not an authority on a topic don't talk like you are one. No one outside ATT and Apple has any idea what the specifics of their contract entail. You don't know how long they are locked in, nor do you know what Verizon was or wasn't willing to concede to them. Judging by the long line of armored trucks backed up to Apple I would guess that their agreement with ATT has been quite profitable for them to date. I for one am grateful for a company that has their head screwed on straight. Financial health today means more innovation tomorrow.

Sorry for so long a post, but I just couldn't take it anymore.

Wow
Great post. I hope you hang around and post more often.
i wonder if you went to 6 points would it look like.
<<sixthy>>
off topic time
And what exactly does having two gpu chips in some MBP really mean for the future of apple computing.
Right now they work alone, Either or. But I see some major breakthru's coming. With openCL and GCS .I see the 2 gpu chips working in concert with the cpu chip. I am not a geek so I may mis -speak here and there.


They put this double chip in for a reason other than what was stated. I predict some heavy 3D gaming/graphics coming. Apple is adding some heavy guns and some heavier software to allow doubling of the chips power.

And wouldn't more companies move to apple then ?
And the iphone in a few years will be a very powerful device with the new road apple is on.

Thoughts?
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post #77 of 99
6/19/09 at 4:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkvasnicka View Post

I fail to see how exactly this "taking" should work.... You actually HAVE TO BUY Exchange in order for iPhone in the enterprise to make sense. Until SL Server, there is no "taking on". They actually help Micosorft a lot. Want this new shiny iPhone in your business? Buy Exchange server 2007, because without it, you can't even invite people from the Calendar app!

Exchange is going nowhere. Mail and exchange in the corporate arena is like a hand in a glove. Every place I worked used Exchange, or eventually got there. It's not out of the realms of possibility but SL Server isn't going to be appearing on many corporate network diagrams an time soon. For the foreseeable future, Apple NEEDS Exchange.
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post #78 of 99
6/19/09 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Listen *- I didn't mean "service" in the literal sense, if you even know what that means. The prior responder knew exactly what i meant.

Why do they pick always your words apart ??
Beside's the fact that you don't even own a phone.
Think about your combative style of posting.


Think before you post . Think it thru. The horses you have beaten to death are still dead. AT&T has spotty coverage .We all know that. I refuse to get the phone until verizon get's it .


Move on.
When the new MBP came out you said you would buy a 13" MBP ??
Well
Did you ? And how is it going .
Come on dude stop being a *** joke and join us. Be one of us , LAUGH A LITTLE

.

Peace
9[/quote]

EDIT Removed attacks from BOTH posts
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post #79 of 99
6/19/09 at 4:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

RIM has 55% of the market; iPhone 20%. You do the math- ain't gonna happen.

RIM is at their apogee. Apple's iPhone is in it's infancy. The potential and the pace of development of the iPhone OS can not be matched by any company right now. In fact, Android might be better positioned than RIM and may have more room for growth, despite their small current market share. The point is, when you look at the dynamics, not the static picture, the math gets pretty complicated, and there are lots of 'ifs' on the way.
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post #80 of 99
6/19/09 at 4:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Listen nimrod- I didn't mean "service" in the literal sense, if you even know what that means. The prior responder knew exactly what i meant.

But Masternav didn't talk about what sort of services are missing. Can you provide examples?

Quote:
I'm not going to type a dissertation for you like sloppyism and anukstatdatdaram would.

That was uncalled for. Same with the nimrod comment. I'm going to start handing out infraction points to people involved with name calling. I started with the guy that called you a bozo but definitely not ending it there.
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