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RIM once again ships 7.8m BlackBerries as new iPhone looms

post #1 of 78
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Research in Motion put pressure on Apple Thursday with word that about 7.8 million BlackBerries had shipped during its latest fiscal quarter, again setting a new record -- and dismissing the likelihood of new and cheaper iPhones as immediate threats.

The tally for its first quarter of fiscal 2010 is a sharp 44 percent jump from what the Canadian company sold just one year earlier and matches the all-time record for smartphone shipments set just before, in the winter quarter.

Since almost all BlackBerry devices are attached to subscriptions to push e-mail, RIM can also roughly say how many of its customers are new to the platform: just about half of these, at 3.8 million, were first-time subscribers. A small portion use prepaid services instead or else use their own non-push e-mail accounts.

The handset designer's finances were decidedly more mixed. Its net income shot up more than 33 percent year-over-year to $643 million, but its revenue actually dropped very slightly compared to spring 2008, at $3.42 billion. Part of this stems from a lower gross margin -- it built in 43.6 percent of headroom on prices versus 50.7 percent last year -- but is also blamed on a stronger Canadian dollar.

Like Apple, RIM doesn't break down its shipments by individual model and so wouldn't say how much its only touchscreen phone, the BlackBerry Storm, was adding to existing sales. Most of its phone additions during the March-to-May period were from lower-cost or mid-range phones like the more frugal BlackBerry Pearl Flip 8230, which shipped for Verizon, and AT&T's edition of the BlackBerry Curve 8900.

The future and the impact on the iPhone

For its next quarter, RIM forecasts that it should add as many or more new BlackBerry subscribers as it did now, at between 3.8 million and 4.1 million, and a total of between 8.1 million to 8.7 million. The company in its financial conference call said it would almost certainly sell more during the second half of the year, when back-to-school, back-to-work and holiday sales would all come into play.

Most of its hopes in the short term are pinned on the summer release of the BlackBerry Tour, a "world phone" without a touchscreen that provides 3G on CDMA phone networks in the US and Canada as well as 3G for GSM carriers in Europe.

The predictions potentially spell continued second-place status for Apple. The iPhone maker shipped about 3.8 million iPhones in its last quarter; even with the surge of demand likely to take place with the combination of the iPhone 3G S and a $99 iPhone 3G, analysts expect Apple to ship 5 million iPhones during its quarter ending this month. Apple has already warned that its iPhone 3G S launch is staggered over the course of multiple weeks and begins with just eight countries on Friday where 21 countries had first access to the iPhone 3G in 2008.

And unlike Palm, RIM feels it can shrug off competition from Apple, particularly in the realm of price cuts. During its conference call Thursday evening, the company noted that sub-$100 smartphones were nothing new: the BlackBerry Curve, Pearl and Pearl Flip have all been available for $99 or less and, in some cases, for free. Executives didn't want to rule out Apple as a factor in the long term but admitted it was "kinda early to really tell" what if any impact a $99 iPhone would have. It has, however, found time to disparage the iPhone 3G and argues that the hardware is a rehash.

"iPhone 3G is a year-old product," the company says.
post #2 of 78
It never ends. The same tired old thinking just never dies. Rim does not have to lose for Apple to win. Both can succeed fantastically.
post #3 of 78
Does the reported quarter still include the giveaways?

McD
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Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #4 of 78
RIM SELLS 3.6 m, gives away 3.6m.
post #5 of 78
And why on earth should RiM stop shipping as soon as new iPhone looms??
It's corporate world. People from there don't care much about what phone's gonna please young fashionable ladies tomorrow.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #6 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


"iPhone 3G is a year-old product," the company says.

Someone should tell RIM that it's all about the software...
post #7 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

And why on earth should RiM stop shipping as soon as new iPhone looms??
It's corporate world. People from there don't care much about what phone's gonna please young fashionable ladies tomorrow.

i don't know about you but I know way more guys with iPhones than women.
post #8 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMacGuy View Post

RIM SELLS 3.6 m, gives away 3.6m.

doesnt the carrier still make the purchase? and then make their money back (and then some) from the end user?
post #9 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

i don't know about you but I know way more guys with iPhones than women.

the actual statistics are far closer than you think. last i read it was 52% to 48%. given the ease-of-use and the hip-factor of the iphone, it kind of makes sense
post #10 of 78
rim just released a phone without wifi, something that all business users crave because they are stuck in airports and hotels so much. How innovative is that? It;s not.
rim is strictly a physical keyboard phone and always will be. Millions of people love that so they will always be in business.

the worst phone I ever had was a bb curve.

if there was no iphone, blackberry would be stuck in the 90's.
post #11 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

It never ends. The same tired old thinking just never dies. Rim does not have to lose for Apple to win. Both can succeed fantastically.

Exactly.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #12 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

i don't know about you but I know way more guys with iPhones than women.

I'm male, and I was kidding.

By way, "guys" (pl.) becomes increasingly more sex neutral nowadays.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #13 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by res08hao View Post

rim just released a phone without wifi, something that all business users crave because they are stuck in airports and hotels so much. How innovative is that? It;s not.
rim is strictly a physical keyboard phone and always will be. Millions of people love that so they will always be in business.

the worst phone I ever had was a bb curve.

if there was no iphone, blackberry would be stuck in the 90's.

1) The lack of WiFi is probably Verizons choice to lock in their services or perhaps a decision to appeal to more corporations. Seems like it would be an easy inclusion, but had never done WiFi on a phone before. Does the Storm 2 have WiFi?

2) The keyboard is certain their big bonus. The corporate email in the iPhone will liekly just get better.

3) The Curve is crap, but its cheap so it will continue to be popular.

4) Part of this business surge for RiM and others does seem to be from the iPhone making smartphones more popular in general.
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post #14 of 78
What is holding back the iPhone is Apple restricted distribution model. In its infinite wisdom, Apple sells the iPhone in the US via ATT only. In other countries, it is also limited though more than one carrier may be involved. In the US, it did not sell to VZ and Sprint which have CDMA/EVDO tech. It is not that hard to implement this tech... actually easier than 3G UMTS which is a battery hog even for voice.

If somebody is with VZ, Sprint and T-Mobile and wants to get the iPhone is forced to switch carriers. Besides contract impediments, there are issues like family plans, corporate plans, which increase the switching cost. If the iPhone was offered to multiple carriers, competition would drive the price of calling plans down.

When the Phone came out, Apple should have sold via multiple carriers.. established a de facto standard for their operating system. I understand the logic why ATT was chosen... I do think it was right.
post #15 of 78
Its safe to sat that Apple would lead in total sales if all 4 carriers had the iPhone.

Of course, RIM has like 127 different models of Blackberry.

Mike
post #16 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

By way, "guys" (pl.) becomes increasingly more sex neutral nowadays.

It depends on the context. For example, if you wrote, “Me and a bunch of guys are going to have an orgy.” I don’t think we’d think you were referring you and group of girls. But do what you want to do Ivan, it’s your life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Its safe to sat that Apple would lead in total sales if all 4 carriers had the iPhone.

Of course, RIM has like 127 different models of Blackberry.

Mike

More carriers, more versions, more features, lower price, BOGO would all help sales. Unfortunately, some don’t realize that most companies have business models and actually try to make money.
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post #17 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

What is holding back the iPhone is Apple restricted distribution model. In its infinite wisdom, Apple sells the iPhone in the US via ATT only.

Apple did it for a reason - in exchange for exclusivity, they were able to get ATT to agree to various technical and financial issues that they never had agreed to before, and probably never would have with out the exclusivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

When the Phone came out, Apple should have sold via multiple carriers.

They could have, but it likely would have meant not getting all the things they asked for (some of which are things that make iPhone stand out).

I think Apple was probably smart to start with one carrier, but now that they are established and have the clout, I think it would benefit them to expand to other carriers as soon as they can.
post #18 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Its safe to sat that Apple would lead in total sales if all 4 carriers had the iPhone.

Of course, RIM has like 127 different models of Blackberry.

Mike

I'd buy one in a heartbeat if Verizon carried the iPhones.

Apple would certainly sell even more if they had a flip version. Think of the Nintendo DS with 2 screens but the screens on a flip iPhone would be more seemless. Add a third screen when the phone is closed and on that same side as a camera and light for iChat video conversations. That's my ideal iPhone (communicator).
post #19 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It depends on the context. For example, if you wrote, Me and a bunch of guys are going to have an orgy. I dont think wed think you were referring you and group of girls. But do what you want to do Ivan, its your life.

Take my word for French girls do carry iPhones! They are particularly good at typing, btw.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #20 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

i don't know about you but I know way more guys with iPhones than women.

I know a lot of women are pissed they took them from the house.
post #21 of 78
post #22 of 78
I have a friend with a Blackberry. He likes the iPhone but just can't get used to a touchscreen keyboard. To each his own.

I guess both apple and rim will be around for a long time
post #23 of 78
Nobody wants to see the iphone on Verizon more than me. This is there third release of the iphone and refuse to switch to a lower end carrier. When they start to offer different carriers you will see some staggering numbers. Guys if you want Apple to hear you loud and clear, flood there iphone feedback page. And tell them, make your voice heard. http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html
post #24 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

It never ends. The same tired old thinking just never dies. Rim does not have to lose for Apple to win. Both can succeed fantastically.

DITTO. both products cater to two different market. i'm very partial to the iphone, and at the same time i don't see the iphone as an ideal fit for all other users. i think if a company tries to create a product that fits all users, then it may likely stumble or fail. i think both companies will do very well catering to their target audiences.
post #25 of 78
Frankly who cares, I want RIM to succeed, they are a Canadian company.
post #26 of 78
Buy one get one free had nothing to do with their record shipments.
post #27 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

It never ends. The same tired old thinking just never dies. Rim does not have to lose for Apple to win. Both can succeed fantastically.

Completely agree. It is a rather pointless exercise in comparing the two or. First of all, the iPhone is mobile computer platform, not a "smartphone". Its reach and capabilities go beyond the smartphone market. The success of the iPhone should not only be limited to its share of the smartphone market; iPod touch sales should be factored in as well.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #28 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by earth.mover View Post

Nobody wants to see the iphone on Verizon more than me. This is there third release of the iphone and refuse to switch to a lower end carrier.

The fact of the matter is, every carrier is a piece $hit. I don't care what experiences you've had. For every person that thinks AT&T sucks, there's a person who doesn't. Ditto for every other carrier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by earth.mover View Post

When they start to offer different carriers you will see some staggering numbers. Guys if you want Apple to hear you loud and clear, flood there iphone feedback page. And tell them, make your voice heard. http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

Won't happen. The point of using GSM is that they can make one phone and be able to use it all over the world. Each model of iPhone is the exact same all over the planet. The US iPhone isn't any different from the Japanese iPhone, not even in software. The only difference is the language people have their iPhone set to. That's a very powerful and efficient design.

What will happen... all carriers will begin to move towards one standard, or at least offer it as an option. Most of them all have plans to move 4G in a couple of years. I predict that's when Apple will allow other carriers in the US to offer the iPhone.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #29 of 78
My opinion, tough economy, people are going to spend money that makes them money.

And choosing products close to how their corporation does things will be very important.

If Apple could have convinced corporate IT with a good product and matching software, RIM would have fallen like dominos.

Apple will be delegated to their rich consumer niche once again I'm afraid.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #30 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

My opinion, tough economy, people are going to spend money that makes them money.

And choosing products close to how their corporation does things will be very important.

If Apple could have convinced corporate IT with a good product and matching software, RIM would have fallen like dominos.

Apple will be delegated to their rich consumer niche once again I'm afraid.

Companies dont have to fall like dominos for another to succeed. The smartphone market is growing rapidly, so the iPhone succeed in corporate America while BB sales still increase.

I guess you expected Apple to come running out of the gate with the HW, OS and App Store they have right now, but that just isnt feasible. These things take time and Apple has been growing the brand quit well. They have increasing appealed to businesses and will continue to do so.

Its quite possible for an iPhone connected to Exchange to be cheaper than any BB connected to Exchange via BES. The more expensive argument is a reason why companies may drop BBs to save money, and why RiM may lose profits and adjust their aging business model.
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post #31 of 78
do they track how many are to replace lost and or damaged units? i know someone who just got a new black berry because he lost his. Of course there will be a certain number of lost or damaged iPhones as well.
post #32 of 78
lower gross margins is the key

RIM is cutting prices on it's phones because of competition from Apple and these numbers don't take into account the 3G S or the lower prices on the 3G
post #33 of 78
Sigh......
I remember when this was an apple computer site.
Those were the days......
post #34 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

lower gross margins is the key

RIM is cutting prices on it's phones because of competition from Apple and these numbers don't take into account the 3G S or the lower prices on the 3G

They do have high margins and they do make the bulk of their money from their BES services so it does look like they can lose margins and offer BOGO without affecting their bottom line too much.
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post #35 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Frankly who cares, I want RIM to succeed, they are a Canadian company.

How very patriotic. But perhaps you should want a company to succeed because of the quality of its products and/or services...not because it's a Canadian.
post #36 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Someone should tell RIM that it's all about the software...

I thought it was all about the call connection. \
post #37 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Won't happen. The point of using GSM is that they can make one phone and be able to use it all over the world. Each model of iPhone is the exact same all over the planet. The US iPhone isn't any different from the Japanese iPhone, not even in software. The only difference is the language people have their iPhone set to. That's a very powerful and efficient design.

What will happen... all carriers will begin to move towards one standard, or at least offer it as an option. Most of them all have plans to move 4G in a couple of years. I predict that's when Apple will allow other carriers in the US to offer the iPhone.

Until standardization does happen, all Apple is doing is limiting their market. Customers, both consumer and corporate, have their reasons for wanting to use a specific provider. RIM will always sell more phones because more people have access to those phones due to them being on nearly every carrier regardless of the system they use.

Apple is replacing their hardware every year anyway. They should offer both CDMA and GSM options for now, then standardize on LTE/4G when the carriers do.
post #38 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

Sigh......
I remember when this was an apple computer site.
Those were the days......

You got that right. Now its the "iPhone with the lousy AT&T contract" site.
post #39 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Until standardization does happen, all Apple is doing is limiting their market. Customers, both consumer and corporate, have their reasons for wanting to use a specific provider. RIM will always sell more phones because more people have access to those phones due to them being on nearly every carrier regardless of the system they use.

Apple is replacing their hardware every year anyway. They should offer both CDMA and GSM options for now, then standardize on LTE/4G when the carriers do.

I've always said the same thing but you'll hear a lot of BS how that's not Apple's "business model" followed by bitching and complaining about every other product it competes against especially from sloppyism.
Meanwhile RIM has 55% and Apple 20%. Apple has taken a page right out of the Motorola RAZR history- not offering diversity of product. If its only about the OS - then why not more phones?
post #40 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Apple did it for a reason - in exchange for exclusivity, they were able to get ATT to agree to various technical and financial issues that they never had agreed to before, and probably never would have with out the exclusivity.



They could have, but it likely would have meant not getting all the things they asked for (some of which are things that make iPhone stand out).

I think Apple was probably smart to start with one carrier, but now that they are established and have the clout, I think it would benefit them to expand to other carriers as soon as they can.

OK- fine, then y'all stop speculating how Apple will overtake RIM already. What's the point?
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