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RIM once again ships 7.8m BlackBerries as new iPhone looms - Page 2

post #41 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"iPhone 3G is a year-old product," the company says.

... and there you have it. RIM is still not recognizing the REAL power of the iPhone: that it is like a chameleon and can become more powerful via OS upgrades and availability of new killer apps. It is understandable that RIM's products can't quite morph like the iPhone platform, but it is inexcusable that RIM can't recognize the very quality that they need to emulate if they want to stay relevant.

To proclaim that a device is "one year old" is to be naive about where this is all headed: smartphones will become handheld computers, and the iPhone is already there. If RIM takes a while to achieve that status, that will be OK, but if they don't even realize that that should be their goal, then their doom is sealed.

Message to RIM: get your head out of the old paradigm in which smart phones are about hardware and into the new reality where smart phones are computers with ever-changing abilities.

Thompson
post #42 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

.... but its revenue actually dropped very slightly compared to spring 2008, at $3.42 billion. Part of this stems from a lower gross margin -- it built in 43.6 percent of headroom on prices versus 50.7 percent last year -- but is also blamed on a stronger Canadian dollar.

Re. the bolded portion above:

(i) The point about gross margins and "headroom" makes absolutely no sense, so perhaps you could explain?

(ii) During the months Feb/Mar/Apr (RIMM's quarter), Can$ appreciated from about Can$1.25/US$ to Can$1.20/US$, or all of 5 Can¢. There is no way that such a small change had a significant impact on their reported earnings. I find it odd that they 'blaming' a stronger Can$.
post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Re. the bolded portion above:

(i) The point about gross margins and "headroom" makes absolutely no sense, so perhaps you could explain?

(ii) During the months Feb/Mar/Apr (RIMM's quarter), Can$ appreciated from about Can$1.25/US$ to Can$1.20/US$, or all of 5 Can¢. There is no way that such a small change had a significant impact on their reported earnings. I find it odd that they 'blaming' a stronger Can$.

Sorry to reply to my own post. My Point #2 is not valid. I just re-checked, and RIMM's 1Q'10 was Mar/Apr/May. During those three months the Can$ appreciated from about Can$1.28/US$ to Can$1.08/US$, or 20 Can¢.

That is, indeed, significant.

Point #1 remains valid, though.
post #44 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

I have a friend with a Blackberry. He likes the iPhone but just can't get used to a touchscreen keyboard. To each his own.

I guess both apple and rim will be around for a long time

Well he can't get used to it if it's not his primary phone. You can't just use it twice and automatically be accustomed to it.

The only people I ever hear bash the virtual keyboard have never even tried it. Once you use it for a week or two, you forget all about it.

I just don't like the Blackberry's interface. It feels very sloppy and... old. Just like how they took their same old UI for the Storm but just slapped on some touch ability. It's not polished and touch is not native to it.
post #45 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I thought it was all about the call connection. \

This enormous fact is why the iPhone is not as strong with business and why I will not be renewing my contract. Too many dropped important biz calls. I am now waiting for the BB Tour to be released on Verizon. Nothing in the new update to get me excited anyway. A compass! WTF. Nothing more than the high tech version of what I could pull from the gum ball machines in the 80's. It has no functional bearing in the real world (unless you travel often and just have to use Google Maps instead of your brain). Oh well. I am exited though about snow leopard and the potential for an OLED iPod Touch.
post #46 of 78
i'm sure it's been mentioned much in prior comments (too many to read all), but for heavins sake, Aidan, you failed to mention RIM is GIVING BLACKBERERRIES AWAY FOR FREE! don't you think that is a relevant fact in reporting how many units they have "shipped"?? like, seriously, duh! get your reporting act together or change professions.

the 'buy one (Storm) get one free (any other blackberry!) has been running for several months now. i saw it on TV last night. don't you think that is, uh, relevant?

give stuff away for free, yeah, you will ship a lot of units. but it's a huge de facto price cut for the Storm, which otherwise would be a real flop. that's the news you should be exploring further.
post #47 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

i'm sure it's been mentioned much in prior comments (too many to read all), but for heavins sake, Aidan, you failed to mention RIM is GIVING BLACKBERERRIES AWAY FOR FREE! don't you think that is a relevant fact in reporting how many units they have "shipped"?? like, seriously, duh! get your reporting act together or change professions.

[]

The BOGO offer does require an activation and contract so the RiM is probably still getting paid for the carrier. Its possible that the RiM is eating the entire cost, but I doubt it.

While I wish it was mentioned for thoroughness when it comes down to marketshare or unit sales that does matter, which is why those that sell cheaper products often hold only to marketshare and not to profit. RiM is still doing well on both fronts.
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post #48 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

i don't know about you but I know way more guys with iPhones than women.

Same here - most of the guys I know prefer iPhones to women.
post #49 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyokuro View Post

This enormous fact is why the iPhone is not as strong with business and why I will not be renewing my contract. Too many dropped important biz calls. I am now waiting for the BB Tour to be released on Verizon.

So, "business" uses Verizon exclusively? No businesses have contracts with AT&T?

Quote:
Nothing in the new update to get me excited anyway. A compass! WTF. Nothing more than the high tech version of what I could pull from the gum ball machines in the 80's. It has no functional bearing in the real world (unless you travel often and just have to use Google Maps instead of your brain). Oh well. I am exited though about snow leopard and the potential for an OLED iPod Touch.

The compass, as a location service, in tandem with maps and the camera, yield some possibilities that your gumball prize never dreamed of.
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post #50 of 78
I've been using my iphone with the company exchange system for quite some time even though it's not officially supported. Once OS 2.0 came out, it was trivially easy to connect and works very well. With OS 3.0 it works amazingly well. It does everything and more than my Blackberry using friends can. (I really love the way it handles calendar invitations now.) And unlike each Blackberry user it costs the company absolutely nothing. It's my phone and I pay for it, access to the company Exchange is just like any other user working remotely from a home computer and doesn't need RIM's servers.
The only reason other users hold onto their Blackberries is because the company pays for them and they are too cheap to pass up a free phone even though they shouldn't use company assets for personal use. If iPhone was a company paid option, most would take it. Frankly, given how well it works as a business tool and how cheap it is to support, all these corporate IT folks still pushing RIM and not offering iPhone have got rocks in their heads.
And no more whining about replaceable batteries or physical keyboards. I've never once seen a Blackberry user change a battery, but I see them plug in chargers all the time. When I need to really pound out a lot of work on my iphone all day long, I do the same or just plug in the external battery. I don't see how having a replaceable battery would change how I use the phone to the slightest degree.
A physical keyboard on the other hand would be an absolute calamity. I can see no advantage to my Blackberry using friends from their chiclet keys. I can type just as easily and quickly, if not even faster. But I have the huge advantages of switching between portrait and landscape, easy access to all special characters and foreign alphabets, and a smaller & lighter phone with a bigger screen. Most important though, it is completely SILENT. I spend a ton of time in meetings full of Blackberry users clattering away on their stupid chiclet keyboards and that constant 'click-click-click-click...' drone gets rather annoying. If it was up to me, all smart phones with physical keyboards would be banned from the work place for that reason. Using one in a meeting is just plane rude to those around you. They make as much sense as continuing to use a command line interface in the GUI age.

I bought my first gen iphone purely for personal use, but it has become such an incredible business tool that I can't imagine how I got by at work without it. The 3.0 upgrade has been amazing after just one day, can't wait to see what upgrading to the 3GS will be like.
post #51 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The BOGO offer does require an activation and contract so the RiM is probably still getting paid for the carrier. Its possible that the RiM is eating the entire cost, but I doubt it.

While I wish it was mentioned for thoroughness when it comes down to marketshare or unit sales that does matter, which is why those that sell cheaper products often hold only to marketshare and not to profit. RiM is still doing well on both fronts.

yes, RIM does get the service contract and some telco might get a new account (tho i bet most are just replacing other dumber cellphones on a family plan). so they do get some additional revenue from the give-away units.

but still, it is very possible half a million of those 7.8 million units "shipped" are in fact the freebies. so that stat is significantly inflated. or, to look at it another way, the Storm price has really been discounted by at least 50%. neither is good news for RIM.

to be fair, Apple is giving a Touch away with a Mac computer sale to a student under its back to school promotion too. but that is a traditional end of model year sale, and the Mac computer price is $1,000+. whereas RIM had to start discounting the Storm after less than 6 months.

face it, the Storm is a flop that RIM is propping up with the giveaway program. Aidan missed it.
post #52 of 78
Bumped into a gal on a JFK to LHR; I was curious so she let me play with her Storm--except for the clicking/haptics, it's a poor iPhone wannabe. She said she hates it--her first one broke in 2 days; Verizon only replaced it after she threatened legal action. Her second Storm was equally "clunky" but by the time she got back to the store, she was past the 30-day limit for replacement and was told that Sorry Charlie, she'd have to live with it--for the duration of the remaining 23 months of her contract . How many non-iPhone smart phone users are waiting til their contracts run out before they defect to the iPhone?
post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

face it, the Storm is a flop that RIM is propping up with the giveaway program. Aidan missed it.

That maybe true, but RIM didn't get hit much in the profit margin department (their profit margin would have to go down anyway as they sell more general consumers because their enterprise customers have higher profit margins).

And certainly Verizon Wireless didn't get hit in the profit margin department at all --- they actually raised their profit margin forecast.

It just so happens that AT&T loosened up their iphone upgrade policy --- 24 hours after RIM announced the Blackberry Tour for VZW and Sprint for the summer launch (precisely the same July/August/Sept that the new AT&T upgrade policy is targeted).
post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

Sigh......
I remember when this was an apple computer site.
Those were the days......

And I remember when the company was called "Apple Computer, Inc."

Now it is called "Apple, Inc."

And the site is called "APPLEInsider", not "AppleComputersOnlyInsider".

So, they report what's happening with Apple and sometimes with its competitors.

Skip the iPhone/iPod stuff if you want to. It's all good.

Some of us want to know all there is about Apple and its products/competition/r&d/rumours/dispelled rumours/stock price/etc.

Apple, Inc.

Greg :-)
post #55 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Same here - most of the guys I know prefer iPhones to women.

ROFLMAO!!!!

You gotta love the English language!

........... still laughing!!!

Thanks!
post #56 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Exactly.

Double exactly. Only the iBoys think of a universe where only Apple reigns supreme. There is enough market for everyone. RIM, Nokia, Apple, Samsung. Not everyone in the world wants an iPhone, and to think so is well stupid. All the major guys will have great phones with great big shortcomings. There is not one size fits all phone. Some, such as me, will simply pick the best two and purchase them. As I have to have two phones. One for work, and personal, I am lucky that I can have my company subsidize my work phone while I purchase my personal phone. Either way, it is a win, win for customers.
post #57 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyokuro View Post

This enormous fact is why the iPhone is not as strong with business and why I will not be renewing my contract. Too many dropped important biz calls. I am now waiting for the BB Tour to be released on Verizon. Nothing in the new update to get me excited anyway. A compass! WTF. Nothing more than the high tech version of what I could pull from the gum ball machines in the 80's. It has no functional bearing in the real world (unless you travel often and just have to use Google Maps instead of your brain). Oh well. I am exited though about snow leopard and the potential for an OLED iPod Touch.

This only proves obvious fact Apple's guys didn't even care to market deservedly numerous iPhone 3G[S] virtues. Actually, 3G[S] promises much better radio, than its predecessor has, more sensitive, dropping less calls. But customer is supposed to be a geek and to shovel tons of boring numbers to see it.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #58 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So, "business" uses Verizon exclusively? No businesses have contracts with AT&T?



The compass, as a location service, in tandem with maps and the camera, yield some possibilities that your gumball prize never dreamed of.

But SE, Nokia, and a few others that had dreamed of it long before Apple did. The guy is correct. These features are nothing new except to the iPhone. Other phones have had these capabilities for years.
post #59 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The BOGO offer does require an activation and contract so the RiM is probably still getting paid for the carrier. It’s possible that the RiM is eating the entire cost, but I doubt it.

While I wish it was mentioned for thoroughness when it comes down to marketshare or unit sales that does matter, which is why those that sell cheaper products often hold only to marketshare and not to profit. RiM is still doing well on both fronts.

Yes but did RIM also discount.

9
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post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

This only proves obvious fact Apple's guys didn't even care to market deservedly numerous iPhone 3G[S] virtues. Actually, 3G[S] promises much better radio, than its predecessor has, more sensitive, dropping less calls. But customer is supposed to be a geek and to shovel tons of boring numbers to see it.

Agreed. Apple always was shy about promoting itself. Too cool for its own good. This apple 3gs seems like a great phone. And AT&T continues to build its towers and repeaters and such .So the coverage should improve. I am from nyc so i will wait for verizon.
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post #61 of 78
[QUOTE=addabox;1436310]
Quote:
So, "business" uses Verizon exclusively? No businesses have contracts with AT&T?

Many do- with Blackberries.

Quote:
The compass, as a location service, in tandem with maps and the camera, yield some possibilities that your gumball prize never dreamed of.

Right- just what every corporation on the World has been craving, yaddabox.
post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Agreed. Apple always was shy about promoting itself. Too cool for its own good. This apple 3gs seems like a great phone. And AT&T continues to build its towers and repeaters and such .So the coverage should improve. I am from nyc so i will wait for verizon.

Looking forward to hear from you that it rocks.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #63 of 78
Not sure if it applies here, but we often (in a business I'm in), will say we "Sent", "Shipped", "Produced", but rarely do we say "How many we sold"

I'm sure Apple is doing the same thing, but the bottom line is, "How many people PAID for something"!

Hell I can ship 1 million a week of something, and not make a penny. Hell do that 8 weeks in a row, and I LOOK great I shipped 8 million of something, and haven't made a penny. Now on the other hand, if I'm SELLING 1 million of something a week, and 8 million after 8 weeks, NOW we're talking (and I'm smiling all the way to the bank).

And hey, let's say for the sake of an argument , that each one they "Shipped" - went to a dealership, store or whatever, what I want to know, is how of these that they "Shipped" have been in fact sold to / purchased by a consumer?

It's like I tell me current clients, who will purchase stuff from us, and then put it in the closet - because it cost to much to just give away - It isn't doing ANYONE any good in the closet. So boxes of Blackberries sold to dealerships, stores, which still have them in boxes, in closets, back rooms waiting to be purchase oh well.

Skip
post #64 of 78
Apple tries to give data for the products SOLD, not shipped. With iPhones and iPods this is not exactly the case because of the complicated international distribution network, but pretty close I guess.
post #65 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Actually, 3G[S] promises much better radio, than its predecessor has, more sensitive, dropping less calls.

Jailbreakers are saying it has the exact same X-Gold 608 as the iPhone 3G, just with 7.2 enabled. (It was disabled in the iPhone 3G)

http://theiphonewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=N88AP

It makes sense since the 618, the successor to the 608 has HSUPA as well.
post #66 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

Jailbreakers are saying it has the exact same X-Gold 608 as the iPhone 3G, just with 7.2 enabled. (It was disabled in the iPhone 3G)

http://theiphonewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=N88AP

It makes sense since the 618, the successor to the 608 has HSUPA as well.

Infineon chipset for iPhone contains at least 4 functionally different chips (I don't mean there are 3 amplifiers on board, I mean functionality). 3G[S] Pictures show at least one of them is different from that of 3G.

FCC tests seem to have indeed shown better radio capabilities, this is why I say there're chances radio is better

Only practice, I believe, will tell.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

It never ends. The same tired old thinking just never dies. Rim does not have to lose for Apple to win. Both can succeed fantastically.

Well said.
post #68 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

It never ends. The same tired old thinking just never dies. Rim does not have to lose for Apple to win. Both can succeed fantastically.

I agree! RIM make good products. Apple make good products. The Pre looks decent although it remains to be seen how well it really does and whether Apple sues their pants off.

Competition is a good thing. The market share is big enough for more than one company to be successful. It sucks to be Motorola, Nokia etc. They are going to be the real losers.
post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

I agree! RIM make good products. Apple make good products. The Pre looks decent although it remains to be seen how well it really does and whether Apple sues their pants off.

Competition is a good thing. The market share is big enough for more than one company to be successful. It sucks to be Motorola, Nokia etc. They are going to be the real losers.

Do you mean Nokia as in the US market where it does not really try to compete or the world market where it is #1? They are doing very well in India.

http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/00...sted_brand.htm
post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Do you mean Nokia as in the US market where it does not really try to compete or the world market where it is #1? They are doing very well in India.

http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/00...sted_brand.htm

India didn't get the memo.
post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

India didn't get the memo.

Was this an attempt at humor? Sorry I didn't get the joke.
post #72 of 78
My friend and his wife just got blackberries. Buy one get one free deal. I played with it, and the whole thing is very easy to use. I picked it up and could do what I wanted with it instantly without needing to really learn anything.

They are good devices and just proves that not all successful new phones need to emulate the iphone (although that's what they tried, and failed, to do with their storm)
post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

Sigh......
I remember when this was an apple computer site.
Those were the days......

Agreed, kind of. It's not that there is so many iPhone, iPod discussions, I enjoy these too (re: they are after all computers).

It just seems there isn't as much discussion on new computers, new processor design and underlying technology. When Apple was only PPC the discussions were lively, informative, contentious and I learned much about the differences in processor design and instruction set architecture.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #74 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by X38 View Post

A physical keyboard on the other hand would be an absolute calamity. I can see no advantage to my Blackberry using friends from their chiclet keys. I can type just as easily and quickly, if not even faster. But I have the huge advantages of switching between portrait and landscape, easy access to all special characters and foreign alphabets, and a smaller & lighter phone with a bigger screen.

I predict that within 2-3 years, a physical keyboard will be considered a liability on a phone. Instead of reviewers saying that the lack of a physical keyboard is a negative, as many do now, they will write things like, "Unfortunately, the XYZ phone is limited by it's physical keyboard. While this may have a certain nostalgic appeal for some..."
post #75 of 78
Verizon HAS to be pursuing the iPhone in a big way or they risk being left behind pretty soon as the legions of blackberry users (and I am also one of them - also a 3G/soon to be 3GS) get tired of the same old interface and software UI. Improvements come in baby steps and the Apps are about 3 years behind what Apple offers, and for 10 times as much.
post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

But SE, Nokia, and a few others that had dreamed of it long before Apple did. The guy is correct. These features are nothing new except to the iPhone. Other phones have had these capabilities for years.

This is really a very silly (and weak) argument. (If it can even be called an argument.) Did those other phones have all the other features of the iPhone (or the Pre, for that matter)? Obviously not. What exactly is the point? That Apple should not implement features that have already appeared on other phones? That the iPhone sucks because it wasn't the first to have a camera or compass? That every possible feature that has ever appeared on any phone or other device, and then some, must be included in the iPhone for it to be better than those phones? (This reminds me of reviews that say things like, "The iPhone 3G-S camera, while adequate, is still inferior to a Nikon D90.")

The concept of something being more than the sum of its parts applies to smartphones as much or more than it does anywhere. It's the whole package that counts, and Apple has created something in the iPhone that goes well beyond the sum of its parts. Although Apple's marketing is superb, the popularity of the iPhone is not due to exceptional marketing alone. To not acknowledge that, regardless of your personal feelings about Apple or the iPhone, is simply ridiculous.
post #77 of 78
double post of unkown cause removed, since I can't find a delete function
post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

do they track how many are to replace lost and or damaged units? i know someone who just got a new black berry because he lost his. Of course there will be a certain number of lost or damaged iPhones as well.

Has there been any research into any of the data they have collected on the Blackberry sales? Like lilgto said, but also how many are going to upgrades? What if all of those people are return costumers? We could play that "what if?" game all day, but until we know the people behind the purchases, we don't know jack-diddly.
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