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iPhone 3G S faster than Palm Pre; 500K sales "conservative"

post #1 of 367
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A series of benchmarks have shown that Apple's latest iPhone is so fast that it outpaces not just the older iPhone but Palm's self-proclaimed speed champ, the Pre. Sales are also poised to break speed records as new estimates suggest that Apple will sell significantly more than 500,000 iPhone 3G S units this weekend.

Benchmarks give iPhone 3G S clear lead over old model, Pre

While many informal comparisons have been conducted to show just how much faster the iPhone 3G S is over its predecessor, a new series of tests on Friday has shown that many of Apple's claims are borne out not just against the iPhone 3G but the Palm Pre and the only currently available Android phone in the US, the T-Mobile G1.

In loading a series of complex websites over Wi-Fi, AnandTech has found that the 3G S is about 54 percent faster on average than the 3G and, in a few cases, is about three times faster. But it's also about 11 percent faster than the Palm Pre, which shares WebKit as a rendering engine, and is only slower in two out of nine tests. That lead only grows wider with the T-Mobile G1: as it's slower than the iPhone 3G, it's often twice as fast or more.

Load times for commonly available apps were less dramatic between iPhones but only exacerbated the gaps between the Pre and Apple's hardware. A 3G S is between 13 percent and 42 percent faster at loading these apps versus a 3G depending on conditions, but it starts these roughly between two and four times faster than a Pre. Again, the sole Android phone in the comparison is slower still in all but Google Maps.





Almost all of the speedup is attributed to the Samsung ARM Cortex A8 processor at the heart of the new iPhone. Its clock speed gain is obvious, but it can also issue two instructions at once instead of the original iPhone's one and has more than twice as much cache. Palm is using an OMAP 3 chip from Texas Instruments that itself is considered fast.

iPhone 3G S sales likely to easily exceed 500,000: analyst

Just as the phone itself is fast, the iPhone 3G S should also outrun previous launch sales estimates, Piper Jaffray senior analyst Gene Munster said today in an investment note.

His research firm had originally predicted half a million units trading hands this weekend but now believes that figure is "conservative" based on early results. At the 5th Avenue Apple store in New York City, the analysts saw 350 customers in line. That was significantly less than the 540 in line last year, but above the 270 predicted last year.

On top of first-hand observations, Munster notes that the carriers themselves have also been very pleased and say that their early results have gone beyond expectations. AT&T's wireless chief Ralph de la Vega told CNBC that there were "hundreds of thousands" of pre-orders for the iPhone 3G before it went on sale. Outside of this, AppleInsider has heard of quick sellouts in at least the US and Canada.

Britain's O2, meanwhile, said that the iPhone 3G S had already sold more units by noon on Friday than the iPhone 3G had managed in its first 24 hours. Retail traffic was 10 times higher than usual, while web views were 150 percent higher.

Apple's performance is less than the million units it managed last year but is potentially impressive as only eight countries could participate on launch day where 21 had that option before. Subsequent launches in the next few weeks should have a much more tangible impact on Apple's overall numbers.
post #2 of 367
Palm's Pre-Empty-ive strike has failed I guess.
post #3 of 367
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Originally Posted by syklee26 View Post

Palm's Pre-Empty-ive strike has failed I guess.

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post #4 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by syklee26 View Post

Palm's Pre-Empty-ive strike has failed I guess.

Not really. They never had the power to nuke the iPhone, but they managed to show a very well designed phone (out-appleing apple in several ways) before the 3GS blitz hit (which I'd expect was their goal more than shadowing Apple's spotlight).

I don't know about the public, but as far as reviewers go very clearly the Pre has captured their minds as being the iPhone contender. Not Android, not Blackberry, not (lol) WiMo, the Pre.

I say that's a pretty good start, and down the line it'll be much better for everyone (apart from Apple themselves maybe) than if the pre had been dead in the water. I'm expecting great things from the mobile space if Palm plays their hand right (and releases their damn phone out of the US already!)
post #5 of 367
What I find most astounding are the application load times and boot times for the Palm Pre v. iPhone 3G with half the HW performance. Palm really should have had waited until after the summer to release the Pre with refinements and with a public SDK.
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post #6 of 367
I think Palm's biggest problem is the name: Pre. What the hell does it mean? It's just stupid. Pre-what? What will the next phone be called, Post? Pri?
post #7 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What I find most astounding are the application load times and boot times for the Palm Pre v. iPhone 3G with half the HW performance. Palm really should have had waited until after the summer to release the Pre with refinements and with a public SDK.

Palm was, of course, smart not to wait, but to challenge the iphone, whose 3gs was not much of an innovation over the 3g, just a speed boost. To wait longer would have given apple a further lead in marketshare.

I also note that, while the app load speed on the pre is lagging, they're a 1st gen product AND OS, so to be in competition at all is a feat. Additionally, they have been updating the OS regularly (including one announced today), so we'll see if those things improve.

Thirdly, I note that the comparisons done today were only for Wifi and app load times - what is conspicuously missing are the 3g/EDGE tests of page loads and email and such. Since the 3gs is currently crippled by ATT's inferior network, in real world tests (such as the recent one at cnet), the pre actually outperforms the iphone in communication speed in many real world applications.

And what you can't measure easily is the fun and gain in usability that multi-tasking on the pre gives you. Battery life aside, multi tasking also has realworld usefulness, and going back to the modular approach of the iphone can feel like going backwards in functionality.

But I admit, the 3gs is a fine phone, and the apps are smoooth, and the slightly bigger screen is nice, despite the relativly clunky size it gives the iphone.

All in all, I don't think it's a slam dunk for either phone. They both are great, they both have room for improvement. Fanboys from both sides love to claim victory. I think the real victor is the consumer, who gets increased innovation and lower price due to the REAL competition of the pre, and I hope that RIM and Android can step it up too.
post #8 of 367
Sorry, but seeing is believing and real world tests over benchmarks prove everything.

The iPhone and iPhone 3GS lost two out of three in important factors: http://bit.ly/m1N4D

Hit the link for video proof. The Pre p0wned iPhone.
post #9 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by masklinn View Post

Not really. They never had the power to nuke the iPhone, but they managed to show a very well designed phone (out-appleing apple in several ways) before the 3GS blitz hit (which I'd expect was their goal more than shadowing Apple's spotlight).

I don't know about the public, but as far as reviewers go very clearly the Pre has captured their minds as being the iPhone contender. Not Android, not Blackberry, not (lol) WiMo, the Pre.

I say that's a pretty good start, and down the line it'll be much better for everyone (apart from Apple themselves maybe) than if the pre had been dead in the water. I'm expecting great things from the mobile space if Palm plays their hand right (and releases their damn phone out of the US already!)

The Pre hype was a bit overblown IMO. Also, I am not impressed by the phone as well (this is a personal opinion. As far as it is Sprint only, and more importantly, not GSM, it is not an option for me anyway). It is a bit early to say that the Pre is not dead in the water. The hype and media attention was good for Palm so far, but when the quarterly results come out, they may kill Palm. I mean, my feeling is that the investor expectations are set too high. I still think that the only option for Palm to stay in the game is takeover from a deep-pocket company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What I find most astounding are the application load times and boot times for the Palm Pre v. iPhone 3G with half the HW performance. Palm really should have had waited until after the summer to release the Pre with refinements and with a public SDK.

I could not come up with benchmarks but I already shared my observations that the Pre feels like the old iPhone and when the 3G S comes out it will be hard to believe that they run on almost identical hardware. Oh, and there are only a handful of apps one can actually compare.

This comparison still does not get into account the whole package: those 50000+ apps and the bunch of the hardware add-ons making their way. There is no Pre vs. iPhone game, they are not in the same league.

The original iPhone launch was one of the biggest in the history of the industry. But Apple managed to draw crowds at the launch day of a new version of the existing device three years in a raw. I don't think this will be replicated soon.
post #10 of 367
The Pre is *still* takeover bait. In light of what the iPhone continues to bring to the table, the pre is nothing special.

Palm is no innovator in handheld devices, anyway.That title goes to Apple, who introduced the PDA to the world with Newton. Palm is a derivative company; a follower, not an innovator. If Palm is a pioneer at anything, it's in sitting around on its collective ass, resting on its laurels, milking/screwing its cusotmers, and then running around in a too-late frenzy like a chicken after Apple lopped off its head.

Which sounds very much like another, much larger company that can't seem to get its act together.

Too little, too late.
post #11 of 367
I'm surprised that O2 have shifted so many. Their prices are batshit crazy.
post #12 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I'm surprised that O2 have shifted so many. Their prices are batshit crazy.

People simply want the iPhone. Demand for this device is crazy. People see real value in it and are willing to pay.
post #13 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

Sorry, but seeing is believing and real world tests over benchmarks prove everything.

The iPhone and iPhone 3GS lost two out of three in important factors: http://bit.ly/m1N4D

Hit the link for video proof. The Pre p0wned iPhone.

Ah - first post, eh, troll?
post #14 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

People simply want the iPhone. Demand for this device is crazy. People see real value in it and are willing to pay.

Sadly this is true.
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post #15 of 367
Count me as one of those possibly 500,000 people who pre-ordered and bought/will buy this weekend.

Lovin' it. Of course, I'm coming from an original iPhone, so the difference is probably much more noticeable.

And as for the Sprint comparisons!? Who cares? Why am I interested in how good or bad the Pre is or isn't doing... I'm very happy with the iPhone.
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post #16 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

Sorry, but seeing is believing and real world tests over benchmarks prove everything.

The iPhone and iPhone 3GS lost two out of three in important factors: http://bit.ly/m1N4D

Hit the link for video proof. The Pre p0wned iPhone.

One real world test doesn't prove anything over benchmarks. I've been with friends who have iphones where, for whatever reason, one person will beat out another. That's why you need a test that is more objective.

If that test showed anything, it was that the ATT signal was so weak that one iphone couldn't hold on to the 3G signal and went to edge.
post #17 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

Sorry, but seeing is believing and real world tests over benchmarks prove everything.

The iPhone and iPhone 3GS lost two out of three in important factors: http://bit.ly/m1N4D

Hit the link for video proof. The Pre p0wned iPhone.

Palm and its shills will do and say anything at this point, especially after the Pre's lukewarm reception.

Plus, according to your source the Pre took ages to start up.

And I just love the small-ass screen, thicker form-factor, and the ancient, dinky keyboard. A nice WebOS engine wrapped in a cheap, obsolescent package. Well done!

Really, tough, when it comes to the whole iPhone/Apple ecosystem, the pre is nowhere. And don't forget, Pre and iTunes syncing might very well never materialize. Being locked out of iTunes or at least having the experience frustrated by Apple's updates, does not bode well for any device hoping to compete with the iPhone in its areas of strength.
post #18 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

One real world test doesn't prove anything over benchmarks. I've been with friends who have iphones where, for whatever reason, one person will beat out another. That's why you need a test that is more objective.

If that test showed anything, it was that the ATT signal was so weak that one iphone couldn't hold on to the 3G signal and went to edge.

Wanting to take signal strength out of the equation idealizes the situation, which just doesn't make much sense.
post #19 of 367
HW specs are secondary are secondary to Apple. It was never mention in the keynote. Apps were the showcase. Intel is piling up cpu cores, they can barely pass 3.0 GHZ nowadays. due to MHZ limits, SW holds increasing significance.
post #20 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I think Palm's biggest problem is the name: Pre. What the hell does it mean? It's just stupid. Pre-what? What will the next phone be called, Post? Pri?

It means "Pre-historic"
post #21 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

It means "Pre-historic"

Your guess is as good as anyone else's.

http://mypre.com/the-names-pre-palm-pre-2009061270/
post #22 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

Sorry, but seeing is believing and real world tests over benchmarks prove everything.

The iPhone and iPhone 3GS lost two out of three in important factors: http://bit.ly/m1N4D

Hit the link for video proof. The Pre p0wned iPhone.

Yes, that proves everything

Especially that Sprint has better service in that studio than ATT. Woo! Not a very good test of the phone itself though.
post #23 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

People simply want the iPhone. Demand for this device is crazy. People see real value in it and are willing to pay.

Comparing products based on load times or some other measure is pretty much like trying to compare cars using 0-60 mph times. It says nothing about the owning experience.

People want iPhones because it is better overall including the intangibles like a) does things it was supposed to do and doesn't do what it is not supposed to do (something most products miss), b) works intuitively, c) is more fun and functional, d) it is prettier, etc.

Pre can pretty much suck our collective arses.

Anybody remember a little phone called Android? Where is it now?
post #24 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What I find most astounding are the application load times and boot times for the Palm Pre v. iPhone 3G with half the HW performance. Palm really should have had waited until after the summer to release the Pre with refinements and with a public SDK.

Launching and usable are two different things. There is no way in hell the Browser n the iPhone is usable within 1 second. If the pre takes 3s to launch the browser and it is usable then I would call that a wash when compared to the iPhone 3G. I'm skeptical about those iPhone numbers at this point, my iphone doesn't open any of those apps in those times.
post #25 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


Anybody remember a little phone called Android? Where is it now?

It's apprently supposed to be huge, or at least really, noticeably, palpably catching on.

I'm not really seeing it yet.
post #26 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

Sorry, but seeing is believing and real world tests over benchmarks prove everything.

The iPhone and iPhone 3GS lost two out of three in important factors: http://bit.ly/m1N4D

Hit the link for video proof. The Pre p0wned iPhone.

Oh, yes! But wait! Some of us are using iPhones and had the chance to play with the Pre. I don't need a video proof to have an opinion. I compared the Pre agains my 3G iPhone - it was more often faster at loading web pages but slower at everything else. It felt somewhat sluggish when browsing pictures and overall not really responsive. It seemed to miss the swipe gesture now and then. I had hard time to believe that it runs on a 2x - 3x times faster processor. Ah, and the biggest problem: I could only compare a couple of apps, the rest are not available on the Pre. At the end of the day the 1st gen iPhone is still better value for me than the Pre.
post #27 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgsinclair View Post

Palm was, of course, smart not to wait, but to challenge the iphone, whose 3gs was not much of an innovation over the 3g, just a speed boost. To wait longer would have given apple a further lead in marketshare.

While I agree the 3G S is more evolution than revolution. I am really impressed with the voice control interface. If it works as well as advertised its a significant innovation. I've seen no other phone with with a video camera interface as simple to use.

Quote:
All in all, I don't think it's a slam dunk for either phone. They both are great, they both have room for improvement. Fanboys from both sides love to claim victory. I think the real victor is the consumer, who gets increased innovation and lower price due to the REAL competition of the pre, and I hope that RIM and Android can step it up too.

How exactly do you describe a slam dunk? The point of both phones are to make a profit, as long as they do that they are successful.
post #28 of 367
The only thing that really matters here, is that the 3G S is faster than the 3G.

Similarly, the only thing that will kill the iPod . . . is a better iPod.
post #29 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

It means "Pre-historic"

Either that or it means Pre-eminent.
post #30 of 367
*******
post #31 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I think Palm's biggest problem is the name: Pre. What the hell does it mean? It's just stupid. Pre-what? What will the next phone be called, Post? Pri?

It simply means Pre-8yakQlater
post #32 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

Launching and usable are two different things. There is no way in hell the Browser n the iPhone is usable within 1 second. If the pre takes 3s to launch the browser and it is usable then I would call that a wash when compared to the iPhone 3G. I'm skeptical about those iPhone numbers at this point, my iphone doesn't open any of those apps in those times.

Those numbers are geek stuff. You very different packages here. Few deal-breakers:
  • If you really want a hardware keyboard, iPhone is a no-go.
  • If you want anything but US keyboard, Pre is a no-go.
  • If you have one iPhone app you really like, Pre is a not an option.
  • If you want an established product you should consider iPhone against the Pre.
  • If you are on Sprint iPhone is not an option.

Palm engineers deserve a credit for their work on the Pre. But overall it can not compete against the iPhone IMO. Let's discuss this one year from now
post #33 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

Launching and usable are two different things. There is no way in hell the Browser n the iPhone is usable within 1 second. If the pre takes 3s to launch the browser and it is usable then I would call that a wash when compared to the iPhone 3G. I'm skeptical about those iPhone numbers at this point, my iphone doesn't open any of those apps in those times.

Just did some quick and dirty tests.
When its not opening up for the first time from a cold boot or running the iPod app in the background my iPhone 3G matches Anands times.

Regardless, With Palms bolstering, the use of a much new HW and a presumably lighter OS that is easier on the HW than OS X, I would have thought that even not being ideally optimized that the Pre would still beat the original iPhone and iPhone 3G, if not the iPhone 3GS.
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post #34 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

Yes, vision must be poor when your head is so far up Jobs' ass?

Also-rans really aren't worth coming out for.
post #35 of 367
Errr, last I checked, the Pre's OMAP3 processor is also an ARM Cortex A8, but guess you just didn't want to tell us that? :-)
post #36 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Wanting to take signal strength out of the equation idealizes the situation, which just doesn't make much sense.

Depends on what you want to learn. If YOU work in that specific TV studio, then yes it is very important how well the iPhone does on 3G. Otherwise, that part of the test is totally meaningless. Removing the network from the equation tells you how fast the phones are. Then, you can decide for yourself if ATT works well in the places you go to every day. It's pretty well accepted that Sprint does not have the widest coverage area.
post #37 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The Pre is *still* takeover bait. In light of what the iPhone continues to bring to the table, the pre is nothing special.

You are stunning...

The pre is nothing special, except it brings multitasking that really works to the world of cell phones, as well as very good notifications, much better than the iPhone's. Also, Synergy. Couldn't care less for Synergy, but I'm still waiting for multitasking on my 3G, and I definitely wouldn't spit on webOS' nifty, non-obtrusive notifications instead of iPhoneOS's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

If Palm is a pioneer at anything, it's in sitting around on its collective ass, resting on its laurels

Dude... to rest on your laurels you need laurels in the first place. Palm was an innovator with its first PDAs, then they got lazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

and then running around in a too-late frenzy like a chicken after Apple lopped off its head.

Wrong again, Palm didn't need Apple to be dying, they've been dying for 10 years here. If Apple did anything to Palm, it was show them a way to the light, and give them Rubinstein.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Palm and its shills will do and say anything at this point, especially after the Pre's lukewarm reception

Are you even reading your own posts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

And don't forget, Pre and iTunes syncing might very well never materialize.

The pre and itunes sync has already materialized, the question is whether it'll stay or whether Apple'll break it.
post #38 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The Pre is *still* takeover bait. In light of what the iPhone continues to bring to the table, the pre is nothing special.

Palm is no innovator in handheld devices, anyway.That title goes to Apple, who introduced the PDA to the world with Newton. Palm is a derivative company; a follower, not an innovator. If Palm is a pioneer at anything, it's in sitting around on its collective ass, resting on its laurels, milking/screwing its cusotmers, and then running around in a too-late frenzy like a chicken after Apple lopped off its head.

Which sounds very much like another, much larger company that can't seem to get its act together.

Too little, too late.


Course you know that Palm INVENTED the touch screen with their Palm Pilots and owns all patents related to single-touch. Check your dates buddy.
post #39 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightstriker View Post

HW specs are secondary are secondary to Apple. It was never mention in the keynote. Apps were the showcase. Intel is piling up cpu cores, they can barely pass 3.0 GHZ nowadays. due to MHZ limits, SW holds increasing significance.

That's very true. Apple has been shipipng with POS video cards for ages making games on a Mac completely useless (let alone the fact that they lost that battle to MS on the desktop).
post #40 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend79 View Post

Course you know that Palm INVENTED the touch screen with their Palm Pilots and owns all patents related to single-touch. Check your dates buddy.

Apple Newton, released in 1993, touchscreen (stylus) with (very bad) handwriting recognition.
Palm Pilot 1000, released in March 1996

Sorry to say, you're wrong.
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