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iPhone 3G S faster than Palm Pre; 500K sales "conservative" - Page 5

post #161 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I strongly disagree that 3.0 software speeds up old phones. It clearly made mine much more sluggish. Glad I just picked up the 3GS today Line moved very quickly, took me 30 minutes to get in and out in Clarendon store.

I think you are clearly in a minority. My 3G is faster with 3.0, not earth-shattering but clearly noticeable.
post #162 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

I think you are clearly in a minority. My 3G is faster with 3.0, not earth-shattering but clearly noticeable.

I have seen people say different things

It hasn't made mine any faster though I wouldn't say it is slower
post #163 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAloy View Post

My mother has a storm and likes it

I have used it quite a bit from her and find it fine but just not that great. Not really worth the price she paid for it.

Wat it with Verizon wireless? Did it get crystal clear calls and connections? Just curious.
post #164 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

I think you are clearly in a minority. My 3G is faster with 3.0, not earth-shattering but clearly noticeable.

Not sure that puts me in a minority. We should do a poll though. The girl at the iPhone store nodded knowingly when I told her that was the big reason I was upgrading.
post #165 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAloy View Post

I have seen people say different things

It hasn't made mine any faster though I wouldn't say it is slower

I notice a generally snappier behaviour (essentially app launches). I have not seen any formal tests of this but there are formal tests comparing the rendering speed in Safari in 2.x and 3.0 on the old 3G and they show a clear improvement.
post #166 of 367
post #167 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

How do you define having an e-mail open? I can start writing an e-mail on my iPhone, switch to the phone app, start a call, switch back to the e-mail app and continue writing while I still talk to the person at other end of my call.
And how can you simultaneously type into a twitter client (and read in it) and have an e-mail open at the same time on the Pre? You cannot because the screen is not large enough for it. What you can do is to quickly switch between the two apps, which you can also do with the iPhone, just press the home button and open the other app, it will open exactly where you had left off before.

I am not saying anything bad about the iPhone 3G or 3GS. They are both great phones. But they cannot truly multi-task (yet). I believe that with the new ARM processors coming to both Apple and Palm will spur better invention in the smart phone market and make all of us happier with more productive devices.

But to ridiculously say that the iPhone can Multi-Task (apps running the background) is utterly false.
post #168 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Wat it with Verizon wireless? Did it get crystal clear calls and connections? Just curious.

You are really just not funny whatsoever
post #169 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

I am not saying anything bad about the iPhone 3G or 3GS. They are both great phones. But they cannot truly multi-task (yet). I believe that with the new ARM processors coming to both Apple and Palm will spur better invention in the smart phone market and make all of us happier with more productive devices.

But to ridiculously say that the iPhone can Multi-Task (apps running the background) is utterly false.

I'm not sure where you're missing the debate here - there's no disagreement over whether the iPhone can multitask - it runs many tasks all the time. The point that people keep repeating that you seem to be ignoring is that the iPhone can only multitask applications that Apple has allowed it to, and no third party ones.

But the important thing is that switching between apps, whether they are truly running when they are out of sight or not, is a pretty similar process on both phones. It's certainly not enough of a difference that it's going to convince many people that they need to switch from their iPhone to Sprint to get the Pre.

It would be nice to have an IM app running in the background, or maybe Pandora, but most people can't think of other apps that they would like to truly have processing in the background. The ability to hit the home button and leave an app, then open another app, then go back to the first app and have it be exactly as you left it is pretty close to the same end result as "true" multitasking.
post #170 of 367
What seems missing in this debate is the fact that the Pre cannot do data streams and voice at the same time (without local WiFi) due to network limitations. Many articles reveal this and no one has said otherwise.

If you are talking on the phone with someone and decide to go to a movie, with the Multitasking iPhone you can put them on speakerphone, bring up all the movie listings in your area (using either Safari or an App for movies (true Multitasking)) and read off the show times immediately. With the Multitasking Pre, you cannot. You must hang up and call back after browsing on your Pre.

Also, no Visual Voicemail would be a deal breaker for anyone whos had it for more than a week.
post #171 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsey123 View Post

What seems missing in this debate is the fact that the Pre cannot do data streams and voice at the same time (without local WiFi) due to network limitations. Many articles reveal this and no one has said otherwise.

You're kidding me! That was a huge annoyance with the Edge iPhone! Surely this isn't true with the Pre....
post #172 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

I am not saying anything bad about the iPhone 3G or 3GS. They are both great phones. But they cannot truly multi-task (yet). I believe that with the new ARM processors coming to both Apple and Palm will spur better invention in the smart phone market and make all of us happier with more productive devices.

But to ridiculously say that the iPhone can Multi-Task (apps running the background) is utterly false.

The phone app and the iPod app do truly run in the background (the mail and the appstore apps as well but they don't do much except periodically checking for messages). The messages app in a sense as well, except that it just waiting for notifications (as all other apps can do by now).

Now, why would want apps running in the background on the iPhone anyway? To do folding? Certainly not? Four reasons:
1) To receive notifications (e-mail, IM, Twitter, etc.)
2) To play audio
3) To update location information
4) To control plugged in external third-party devices
5) To speed up switching

The point is an iPhone does not run any applications which would do anything useful while being in the background except for the exceptions listed above.

Why do you have multiple applications running on a computer? Because they calculate something, because they regularly check for something, because you like to have two app's windows visible at the same time, because it makes switching faster.

Would I like the switching between applications be faster and easier? Yes. But does a mail application need to be running while it is the background or can it be just in a frozen state?

Would I like to keep more apps in memory? Yes, but the solution for this more RAM. Even on a computer when you have a lot of applications open, when you run out of RAM they get swapped out and switching to them is like restarting them.

What we want is better way to switch between apps and a way to designate apps to stay in memory. You might say that designating apps to stay in memory is the same as keeping them running, and it is close, but it still mandates the app to use zero processing resources when we know that it should use zero processing resources since it does nothing while in the background.

What would be useful would be a kind of Dock that allows us to place 'preferred' applications. Like the current Dock but allowing for much more applications (ie, it should somehow scale like the Dock in Mac OS X does), and allowing instant access to this Dock with a simple gesture.
post #173 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Fair enough, I found and corrected some other mistakes in my post, but I'll leave it as it is now. It's hard finding good information on this.

My guess is that Pilot succeeded because it didn't try to do too much, and as such, could keep a small size and better price. Palm did what I needed it to do and the models I've owned actually fit in my pockets.

Well, that was about it. The Pilot was small, light, and cheap.

Those were the only reasons why it did well. The product itself as far as capabilities went, was though of as junk, and it was for years. It was very primitive when compared to the Newton, and if Jobs didn't discontinue it, it would no doubt have seen continuing greater sales.

Apple actually sold over 300,000 of these $1,000 devices when the cost in todays (actually 2008) dollars would be $1,360. About half the sales were from the last model.

Considering that, it wasn't exactly a flop.
post #174 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend79 View Post

That's very true. Apple has been shipipng with POS video cards for ages making games on a Mac completely useless (let alone the fact that they lost that battle to MS on the desktop).

I agree with your on lame video cards, but that is also due to Mac's requiring larger ROM's on their cards. Looks like Nvidia and ATI weren't willing to spend another 50 cents to make all their cards potentially Mac/PC compatible.

That said, Apple had never pursued the gaming market until very recently. It was simply never core to their business model.
post #175 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

McNamee did but then Palms lawyers issued a retraction. He never said the term iPhone killer but the sentiment was clear. His comments were hyperbolic enough that I wonder if it wasnt completely staged to help draw more free media attention.

Step 1: Make outlandish statements about how your device is so much better than competitor.
Result 1: Generate free press.
Step 2: Issue retraction stating that what was said is necessary true.
Result 2: Generate free press.

Maybe he was just overzealous but it just seemed like a PT Barnum move.

He did say something along the lines of; "Every iPhone user will immediately go out and buy a Pre." Almost exactly those words.
post #176 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

Uh, no, it does not truly Multi-Task. Can you run a twitter app, have your email app open and make a call at the same time? No.

Uh, yes it does. You have a limited understanding of what multitasking is.

One example is playing music while doing most everything else. There are others if you want to look.
post #177 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

They reported $3.42B in sales for 7.8M handsets sold. Broadly, that would imply a revenue of less than $450 per handset. That would be on the low side compared to Apple, no?

In any event, RIMM was down nearly 5% yesterday, after its earnings announcement.

Was that sales figure just for phone sales? I don't think so. They charge for their servers as well as for other support services. That's a large part of their sales.
post #178 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

I am not saying anything bad about the iPhone 3G or 3GS. They are both great phones. But they cannot truly multi-task (yet). I believe that with the new ARM processors coming to both Apple and Palm will spur better invention in the smart phone market and make all of us happier with more productive devices.

But to ridiculously say that the iPhone can Multi-Task (apps running the background) is utterly false.

I find these statements about multitasking just bizarre.

You make it sound like multi-tasking is somehow a new and great technical innovation that Apple, unlike its competitors, hasn't mastered yet.
Multitasking was old stuff 20 years ago.

Apple's OS on Mac's and the iPhone are inherently multi-tasking. Turns out that Apple decided to restrict that use on the phone deliberately for the sake of maintaining battery life.
Why would Apple care to do such a thing? Why would AT&T restrict features for the iPhone that it makes available to other models?

While I certainly don't agree with AT&T's decision, my assumption is the high degree of usability. People simply use more of the features of their phone more of the time.

My personal preference would be that Apple un-restrict multi-tasking via preference setting and allow people to make their choice. Similar to the Energy saver features on the Mac's
post #179 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Over the air updates are more conveninet but it's not necessarily superior. The reason you plug an iPhone in for updates is because the entire OS is replaced instead of simply adding a patch. Replacing the OS would seem a more stable solution than an OTA patch.

What he didn't think of with the "forced" updates Palm is requiring is that if Apple did that, they would be excoriated for it. More control from BIG BROTHER!

At least, we have the choice to refuse an update. Pre owners don't.

The hacking community (not that I approve of it) won't like this at all. Palm can force an end to their activities at a moments notice, and they won't have a choice in the matter, unlike with the iPhone, where you don't need to download a new update until YOU want to.
post #180 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by masklinn View Post

That's probably one more thing Quadra 610 is blind to.

It's not satirical. Those comments are real.

Here's one thread about the cracks:

http://forums.palm.com/palm/board/me...age.uid=207668

What's interesting, is that while articles I've read in the media say that Palm and Sprint are handling this well, the customers here are mostly saying otherwise, requiring the insurance with a $100 upfront cost.

Here's from pre/central.net, where those comments have been coming from.

They would be incredibly funny, if they weren't so sadly real:

http://www.precentral.net/psb-pre-screen-cracks-emerge

Read this stuff, and come back and comment on it.
post #181 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Answer the poll if you have a sec:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=99533

?

sluggist? lol
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post #182 of 367
Concerning the cracked plastic PRE phones.
I feel ill. So many people were so upset, and sprint was stonewalling the whole thing.

There is a poll over at precentral <<what a name huh>> that shows 6 out of 28 PRE's had crack screens. So if they sold 280,000. PRE'S < pronounced pray > that means they may have over 60'000 cracked or cracking screens .AND over the next two weeks maybe tens of thousands more.

This is one of the worst consumer nightmares ever. < I am not grinning right now > .

I can just imagine consumer reports rating on this phone > zero

So the sky looks sunny for the 3g -3gs world. AS word gets out about this fiasco sales, for the 3gs should go even higher. and the re-sale for the 3g should also hold its ground.


Ps sprint is not taking back the cracked phones.
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post #183 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I strongly disagree that 3.0 software speeds up old phones. It clearly made mine much more sluggish. Glad I just picked up the 3GS today Line moved very quickly, took me 30 minutes to get in and out in Clarendon store.

I haven't noticed anything slow down, but some have speeded up in various ways. Safari is definitely speedier. A number of others open more quickly.
post #184 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

I am not saying anything bad about the iPhone 3G or 3GS. They are both great phones. But they cannot truly multi-task (yet). I believe that with the new ARM processors coming to both Apple and Palm will spur better invention in the smart phone market and make all of us happier with more productive devices.

But to ridiculously say that the iPhone can Multi-Task (apps running the background) is utterly false.

But you're simply wrong!
post #185 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I haven't noticed anything slow down, but some have speeded up in various ways. Safari is definitely speedier. A number of others open more quickly.

Anand updated his recent speed tests to show the speed ups with v3.0 over v2.x. I don't think it was much but their is a slight benefit overall.
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post #186 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by masklinn View Post

That's probably one more thing Quadra 610 is blind to.

They're real, alright.
post #187 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I haven't noticed anything slow down, but some have speeded up in various ways. Safari is definitely speedier. A number of others open more quickly.

Did you read the forbes article ??Its quite good. The link is above ,
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post #188 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Concerning the cracked plastic PRE phones.
I feel ill. So many people were so upset, and sprint was stonewalling the whole thing.

There is a poll over at precentral <<what a name huh>> that shows 6 out of 28 PRE's had crack screens. So if they sold 280,000. PRE'S < pronounced pray > that means they may have over 60'000 cracked or cracking screens .AND over the next two weeks maybe tens of thousands more.

This is one of the worst consumer nightmares ever. < I am not grinning right now > .

I can just imagine consumer reports rating on this phone > zero

So the sky looks sunny for the 3g -3gs world. AS word gets out about this fiasco sales, for the 3gs should go even higher. and the re-sale for the 3g should also hold its ground.


Ps sprint is not taking back the cracked phones.

Well Sprint can't be pleased about this, either.

They're relying on a virtually flawless Pre (it has to be) in order to save them.
post #189 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its been stated on these forums several times (and probably elsewhere) that Apples focus on games means that they are only interested in a making a toy, not a serious device. Also, something about the App Store being dominated by games. Silly comments.

It seems to me that the focus on games was led by the developers and consumers. This is the free market at work.

Thompson
post #190 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

He did say something along the lines of; "Every iPhone user will immediately go out and buy a Pre." Almost exactly those words.

He heavily eluded to it, but the quoted text from McNamee dmapoears not have dirmectly said it. He said that no one will be using the iPhone after their contracts are up and then snarmishly and rhetorically asked the interviewer what he thought they would buy next.
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post #191 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Anand updated his reason speed tests to show the speed ups with v3.0 over v2.x. I don't think it was much but their is a slight benefit overall.

There was an interesting anomaly in his statements about the tests.



He states that a good part of the 3Gs speed-up over the 3G is understandable because " this is a new microarchitecture".

He then mentions that the performance of the 3Gs is about that of the Pre, just 11% faster.

But that all SCREWY!

Why? Because that 11% is just for downloading web pages!

However when he gets to that last chart, we can see something much more interesting, which is the speed of opening some apps.

First of all, in the last chart, you notice that for some reason, Palm's name got reversed into white. At first, I couldn't read that it said palm, and wondered what the numbers represented.

Then I got closer and could read it.

Please make sure your window is wide enough to display the columns properly. I don't have the energy to do this as an image.


Application Launch Time in Seconds...Web Browser.......Dialer.......Google Maps......Camera....Email
Apple iPhone 3GS.................................0.7s.......... .........0.7 s............2.7 s.................2.8 s......0.8 s
Apple iPhone 3G...................................0.8s......... ..........1.2s.............3.3 s.................3.9 s......1.2 s
Palm Pre............................................... 3.0 s..................1.5 s............8.6 s.................4.4 s......3.3 s
T-Mobile G.........................................15.4 s..................2.0 s............4.4 s.................4.9 s......2.0 s

iPhone 3GS vs. 3G Perf. Advant...........13%.....................42%...... ........18%..................28%........33%

But what about the performance advantage over the Pre and "G"? It's far better!

And the Pre, at least, shares the same microarchitecture, as he brought up earlier. It may even have a slightly better graphics chip, possibly the 530 vs the 520 for the 3Gs.

So, what gives? Apparently something else is going on here. Is it possibly the crappy way programs are implemented on the Pre?

How about that Android "G"? That really pretty dreadful.

We're talking about anywhere between 200% and 600%

Why didn't he comment on this much more important data that he produced? That odd for him.
post #192 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Did you read the forbes article ??Its quite good. The link is above ,

Could you please post that link again? Somehow, I can't see it. Forbes mails me a half dozen articles every day, I may have read it already, but I'm not sure which one it is.
post #193 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsey123 View Post

With the Multitasking Pre, you cannot. You must hang up and call back after browsing on your Pre.

Really? Thatruins the most obvious use of basic multitasking. That has to be a bug that'll be adressed shortly.
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post #194 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsey123 View Post

What seems missing in this debate is the fact that the Pre cannot do data streams and voice at the same time (without local WiFi) due to network limitations. Many articles reveal this and no one has said otherwise.

If you are talking on the phone with someone and decide to go to a movie, with the Multitasking iPhone you can put them on speakerphone, bring up all the movie listings in your area (using either Safari or an App for movies (true Multitasking)) and read off the show times immediately. With the Multitasking Pre, you cannot. You must hang up and call back after browsing on your Pre.

Also, no Visual Voicemail would be a deal breaker for anyone whos had it for more than a week.

Are you serious?
post #195 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

He heavily eluded to it, but the quoted text from McNamee dmapoears not have dirmectly said it. He said that no one will be using the iPhone after their contracts are up and then snarmishly and rhetorically asked the interviewer what he thought they would buy next.

Well, maybe not exactly those words, but the meaning of those exact words then. I think we all knew what he was saying, as did Palms lawyers, which is why they retracted them.

Quote:
"June 29, 2009, is the two-year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later. Think about it -- if you bought the first iPhone, you bought it because you wanted the coolest product on the market. Your two-year contract has just expired. Look around. Tell me what they're going to buy."
"The Pre going to be a million times -- well, not a million times -- several times faster than the iPhone."
"The Pre is going to run rings around [Apple] on the Web."

Basically, he said what I said, but in a more convoluted way.

Information Weeks article by Eric Zeman, where HE says exactly what I said:

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/...RSKHSCJUNN2JVN
post #196 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Really? Thatruins the most obvious use of basic multitasking. That has to be a bug that'll be adressed shortly.

Gee! What if it's more than just a "bug"?
post #197 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But what about the performance advantage over the Pre and "G"? It's far better!

And the Pre, at least, shares the same microarchitecture, as he brought up earlier. It may even have a slightly better graphics chip, possibly the 530 vs the 520 for the 3Gs.

So, what gives? Apparently something else is going on here. Is it possibly the crappy way programs are implemented on the Pre?

How about that Android "G"? That really pretty dreadful.

We're talking about anywhere between 200% and 600%

Why didn't he comment on this much more important data that he produced? That odd for him.

I would have expected the nature of WebOS to offer a faster system but it seems that they haven't optimized well for the HW. As for The GPU, that is almost pointless of a win in the spec sheet if developers won't be able to utilize it.

These tests are just a taste. Check out his full Pre review that also came out yesterday. A full comparison is coming soon.
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post #198 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I would have expected the nature of WebOS to offer a faster system but it seems that they haven't optimized well for the HW. As for The GPU, that is almost pointless of a win in the spec sheet if developers won't be able to utilize it.

These tests are just a taste. Check out his full Pre review that also came out yesterday. A full comparison is coming soon.

Yeah, I read that, but we do need the side by side. Also the entire 3Gs review first.
post #199 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Could you please post that link again? Somehow, I can't see it. Forbes mails me a half dozen articles every day, I may have read it already, but I'm not sure which one it is.


it was a whole page back >>>> read below my original post to find the link
about 2 inchs down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yet another reason why the iphone will sell a ton of phones very very soon. This article also states that the new software speeds up and adds new dimentions the old 3g phones too.

<<<<< Now add the ability to turn the iPhone into a kind of skeleton key for all kinds of other devices. Apple will now let developers turn the iPhone into a control panel for practically any piece of electronics you can plug it into. Another radical feature: the ability to automatically find and sync up wirelessly with software running on another iPhone or iPod touch.

For example, SGN's jet fighter game, "F.A.S.T.," allows players to dogfight with nearby iPhone users over a Bluetooth connection thanks to this week's iPhone software update, whether or not you're buying the new iPhone. "When you have openness, you have the catalyst for expedited innovation from tens of thousands of developers," Pishevar says .>>>>


WOW I am saving up to buy the MBP 15 2 chip. But its getting hard to ignore the 3gs.

>>>>>>>>the full article below >>>>>>>>>

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/18/app...rsonal-3g.html


Good Read . The pre doesn't matter anymore. They can sell a trillion. But the sweet sexy powerful 3gs,is the new standard by which all phones will be measured. Not to better the 3gs . No no that won't happen. We gauge how close any new phone can come to the 3gs.

peace

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post #200 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Yet another reason why the iphone will sell a ton of phones very very soon. This article also states that the new software speeds up and adds new dimentions the old 3g phones too.

<<<<< Now add the ability to turn the iPhone into a kind of skeleton key for all kinds of other devices. Apple will now let developers turn the iPhone into a control panel for practically any piece of electronics you can plug it into. Another radical feature: the ability to automatically find and sync up wirelessly with software running on another iPhone or iPod touch.

For example, SGN's jet fighter game, "F.A.S.T.," allows players to dogfight with nearby iPhone users over a Bluetooth connection thanks to this week's iPhone software update, whether or not you're buying the new iPhone. "When you have openness, you have the catalyst for expedited innovation from tens of thousands of developers," Pishevar says .>>>>


WOW I am saving up to buy the MBP 15 2 chip. But its getting hard to ignore the 3gs.

>>>>>>>>the full article below >>>>>>>>>

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/18/app...rsonal-3g.html


Good Read . The pre doesn't matter anymore. They can sell a trillion. But the sweet sexy powerful 3gs,is the new standard by which all phones will be measured. Not to better the 3gs . No no that won't happen. We gauge how close any new phone can come to the 3gs.

peace

9

I took a look at that article. Some comments. One, the idea of the iPhone 3G S serving as a control panel for attachments is exciting. Two, iPhone OS 3.0 is more than a "platform". It is an adaptation of Mac OS X, with limitations and enhancements, and the possibilities that adaptation allows. Just two examples: multi-touch gestures leveraged from the iPhone to Mac laptop trackpads, VoiceOver leveraged from Mac OS X to the iPhone 3G S. Fourth, since the iPod Touch also runs on iPhone OS 3.0, it can also can benefit from software leveraging when a hardware refresh occurs in the future. Note: I used the term "leveraging" because I couldn't think of a better term for now.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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