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iPhone 3G S faster than Palm Pre; 500K sales "conservative" - Page 2

post #41 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Comparing products based on load times or some other measure is pretty much like trying to compare cars using 0-60 mph times. It says nothing about the owning experience.

People want iPhones because it is better overall including the intangibles like a) does things it was supposed to do and doesn't do what it is not supposed to do (something most products miss), b) works intuitively, c) is more fun and functional, d) it is prettier, etc.

Pre can pretty much suck our collective arses.

Anybody remember a little phone called Android? Where is it now?


I'm glad to see that you feel SOO threatened by the device. It proves that it's a real contender despite all the bashing. Coruse you're smart enough to know that no competition means that Apple will sell you their devices for a ridiculous price; but you are probably too cool-aid-ed to even think that way and are still gonna purchase the same iPod at 500$
post #42 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post

Those numbers are geek stuff. You very different packages here. Few deal-breakers:
  • If you really want a hardware keyboard, iPhone is a no-go.
  • If you want anything but US keyboard, Pre is a no-go.
  • If you have one iPhone app you really like, Pre is a not an option.
  • If you want an established product you should consider iPhone against the Pre.
  • If you are on Sprint iPhone is not an option.

Palm engineers deserve a credit for their work on the Pre. But overall it can not compete against the iPhone IMO. Let's discuss this one year from now

More importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.
post #43 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend79 View Post

Course you know that Palm INVENTED the touch screen with their Palm Pilots and owns all patents related to single-touch. Check your dates buddy.

According to my timeline the Newton (1993) predated the Pilot (1996) by 3 years. The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then-Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBI’s X-Files division. My memory is infallible.
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post #44 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgsinclair View Post

Palm was, of course, smart not to wait, but to challenge the iphone, whose 3gs was not much of an innovation over the 3g, just a speed boost. To wait longer would have given apple a further lead in marketshare.

I also note that, while the app load speed on the pre is lagging, they're a 1st gen product AND OS, so to be in competition at all is a feat. Additionally, they have been updating the OS regularly (including one announced today), so we'll see if those things improve.

Thirdly, I note that the comparisons done today were only for Wifi and app load times - what is conspicuously missing are the 3g/EDGE tests of page loads and email and such. Since the 3gs is currently crippled by ATT's inferior network, in real world tests (such as the recent one at cnet), the pre actually outperforms the iphone in communication speed in many real world applications.

And what you can't measure easily is the fun and gain in usability that multi-tasking on the pre gives you. Battery life aside, multi tasking also has realworld usefulness, and going back to the modular approach of the iphone can feel like going backwards in functionality.

But I admit, the 3gs is a fine phone, and the apps are smoooth, and the slightly bigger screen is nice, despite the relativly clunky size it gives the iphone.

All in all, I don't think it's a slam dunk for either phone. They both are great, they both have room for improvement. Fanboys from both sides love to claim victory. I think the real victor is the consumer, who gets increased innovation and lower price due to the REAL competition of the pre, and I hope that RIM and Android can step it up too.

Your long post says nothing. It blows more than the Pre.
post #45 of 367
I would refine that and say if you want to multi-task web apps go Pre, if you want 50,000 full Objective-C/ OpenGL apps go iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legend79 View Post

More importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.
post #46 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBIs X-Files division. My memory is infallible.

post #47 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend79 View Post

More importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.

That all depends on the apps. If all that is needed is an IM app to run in the background then Push Notifications are more ideal than an IM app running constantly in the background, and if the only games they play are non-GPU intensive, like chess and suduko, then the Pre or many other cheaper smartphones may be more ideal.


PS: Palm is also implementing a Push Notification Server. While PN can do a lot they can’t do everything so the option for background apps is nice. I have a feeling that Apple is working on the logistics of allowing background apps as we speak. The "Apple way" is to make the allowance a non-hinderance to the user experience, which means allowing the active, foreground app to run virtually the same with the background app still in memory and using CPU cycles

It seems like the 256MB RAM and other HW will be enough now for that capability, but Apple isn’t using webpages for their apps so some logistical planning is needed to do it right. You can find forums and blogs where Android developers are having a tough time dealing with background apps sucking up the resources, thus keeping their app from working correctly in the foreground.
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post #48 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgsinclair View Post

Palm was, of course, smart not to wait, but to challenge the iphone, whose 3gs was not much of an innovation over the 3g, just a speed boost. To wait longer would have given apple a further lead in marketshare.

.

Just a speed boost. So you don't care about having a faster processor, and more ram? You must still be using a LCII.
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post #49 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would refine that and say if you want to multi-task web apps go Pre, if you want 50,000 full Objective-C/ OpenGL apps go iPhone.

Is there a person who wants 50000 applications..? Me, I'd be happy with 5-10 good ones.

Strange how no one remembers iPhone didn't have 50000 applications when first released, and still managed to beat Palm Treo line that did have numerous applications - and some of them very useful.

iPhone has 50000 apps because it was selling so well without apps that platform eventually became interesting for developers. I think same rules will work for any other device. Good phone will sell itself initially, and additional apps will bring more functionality and keep it actual down the time line.
post #50 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would refine that and say if you want to multi-task web apps go Pre, if you want 50,000 full Objective-C/ OpenGL apps go iPhone.

This.

It remains to be seen what kind of heavy lifting the WebOS is capable of, but it seems unlikely that it will be able to match the depth and range of what can happen on the iPhone.

For people who just want a communications device, that's not a problem; it might become a problem as Apple continues to refine the iPhone OS to match or exceed what anyone else is doing while still keeping the OS X underpinnings that allow ever more flexibility and power.

It's funny, though, that once upon a time Macs sucked because they didn't have any games, and now the iPhone sucks because it has too many.
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post #51 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend79 View Post

More importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.

I don't want to take away from your comment, as I think it's a true statement, but I am really curious about what everybody wants to multitask.

I can only think of a couple but I don't see a "super necessity" for it:

Listen to Pandora (some other radio app) while doing something else (checking e-mail, browsing the web, etc.).

How many other things can you do at the same time on a phone?
post #52 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Is there a person who wants 50000 applications..? Me, I'd be happy with 5-10 good ones.

Well of course no one person will use all of those apps. The point is their is a wide choice.

Quote:
Strange how no one remembers iPhone didn't have 50000 applications when first released, and still managed to beat Palm Treo line that did have numerous applications - and some of them very useful.

When the original iPhone was introduced the Treo was already old and outdated.

Quote:
iPhone has 50000 apps because it was selling so well without apps that platform eventually became interesting for developers. I think same rules will work for any other device. Good phone will sell itself initially, and additional apps will bring more functionality and keep it actual down the time line.

Along with the phone selling well, you need a great platform that developers like to use.
post #53 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by donlphi View Post

I don't want to take away from your comment, as I think it's a true statement, but I am really curious about what everybody wants to multitask.

I can only think of a couple but I don't see a "super necessity" for it:

Listen to Pandora (some other radio app) while doing something else (checking e-mail, browsing the web, etc.).

How many other things can you do at the same time on a phone?

If allowed for the iPod app to sync the radio stations and got the carriers to be okay with audio streaming then I think most peoples background app needs (at least the one most commonly expressed) will have been met.

Ive noticed that even on the iPhone 3G with its measly 128MB RAM, that Safari doesnt reload pages nearly as often under v3.0 as it did in v2.x. Of course, it depends on what iPhone OS X apps you have running in the background and how many pages you have open, but anecdotally speaking there is a definite improvement over how often it refreshes a page when I go in and out of Safari.
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post #54 of 367
Its already known webOS cannot match the depth and range of development on the iPhone.

Too many games make the iPhone suck, I'd never heard that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post


It remains to be seen what kind of heavy lifting the WebOS is capable of, but it seems unlikely that it will be able to match the depth and range of what can happen on the iPhone.

It's funny, though, that once upon a time Macs sucked because they didn't have any games, and now the iPhone sucks because it has too many.
post #55 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Too many games make the iPhone suck, I'd never heard that.

It’s been stated on these forums several times (and probably elsewhere) that Apple’s focus on games means that they are only interested in a making a toy, not a serious device. Also, something about the App Store being dominated by games. Silly comments.
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post #56 of 367
Yeah, I love my Iphone 3G S....but these speed figures are far from the truth.
I had the pre for 10 days and can tell you it downloaded 5-6 sites I regularly use on wifi...significantly faster than this phone does right now....by a lot...and consistantly!
And the efficiency of navigation on that device is industry leading at this point.
The universal search is TRULY, universal for example...includes bookmarks, and message content. You can, on any page just start typing letters and be prompted to google searches, or urls...it's great.
The whole package is, unfortunately just not Iphone..but they've taken what was Iphone's ace in the whole: Interface elegance...and eaten Apples lunch.
post #57 of 367
I always thought Pre was Palm's version of Wii. A non-word easy to trademark that can only be associated with Palm's new phone.

Whatever happened to that other "iPhone"?
post #58 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockky View Post

Yeah, I love my Iphone 3G S....but these speed figures are far from the truth.
I had the pre for 10 days and can tell you it downloaded 5-6 sites I regularly use on wifi...significantly faster than this phone does right now....by a lot...and consistantly!
And the efficiency of navigation on that device is industry leading at this point.
The universal search is TRULY, universal for example...includes bookmarks, and message content. You can, on any page just start typing letters and be prompted to google searches, or urls...it's great.
The whole package is, unfortunately just not Iphone..but they've taken what was Iphone's ace in the whole: Interface elegance...and eaten Apples lunch.

Did you return your pre?
If so, why?
post #59 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

Whatever happened to that other "iPhone"?

Preciously speaking, Palm presumed that if they made a preemptive presence before the preliminary 2009 iPhone preamble they would have a pretty precious lead, but they pre-released the Pre before it was a real predator which prevented the Pre from prevailing despite Palm’s McNamee presumptuous preaching of the iPhone’s predoom and the Pre’s preeminence.
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post #60 of 367
This sounds as pitiful as Mac vs Windows 95....the companies keep getting richer and are both still around at least for now, only differnece is you all have an easy multiuser interface to bitch back and forth to each other....get a phone/mobile devce that suits your lifestyle and try to be content and not competitive...but I can't help saying.....

iphone....you've been 'promoted' from the risk taker to a 'steppford' conservative! (I'm still enamored by the original classic iphone owners)

pre - you're the new risk taker (good luck!)
post #61 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

According to my timeline the Newton (1993) predated the Pilot (1996) by 3 years. The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then-Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBI’s X-Files division. My memory is infallible.

Whipper snappers! My Sharp Wizard in 1990 had a touch screen, and it didn't need no stinkin stylus, either!

The Newton was revolutionary in capabilities, but the Pilot provided accessibility. Palm won that one. Pre tries to be the kitchen sink. Kitchen sinks sound good until you see the joy of using a device that does the main things you need really well.

With landscape keyboard in OS3.0, I finally have what I longed for since the fateful keynote. It is pretty hard to beat the iPhone now, unless you are trying to drive and type...
post #62 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgsinclair View Post


Thirdly, I note that the comparisons done today were only for Wifi and app load times - what is conspicuously missing are the 3g/EDGE tests of page loads and email and such. Since the 3gs is currently crippled by ATT's inferior network, in real world tests (such as the recent one at cnet), the pre actually outperforms the iphone in communication speed in many real world applications.

And what you can't measure easily is the fun and gain in usability that multi-tasking on the pre gives you. Battery life aside, multi tasking also has realworld usefulness, and going back to the modular approach of the iphone can feel like going backwards in functionality.

But I admit, the 3gs is a fine phone, and the apps are smoooth, and the slightly bigger screen is nice, despite the relativly clunky size it gives the iphone.
.

A good balanced approach.

I do think that wifi would be the most fair comparison. It makes it phone v. phone, a hardware test, and taking out the x factor of the carrier. Sprint outperforming ATT seems to be a different issue.

It is subjective to talk about the fun and usability in multitasking. But nobody has really said that multitasking doesn't have real world usefulness. And to take the battery life out of the equation is taking out a pretty important consideration. It's a bit of a stretch.

And I haven't really heard a lot of complaints about the iphone being clunky. Kinda sounded like a backhanded swipe. Maybe if you prefer the shorter and thicker size of the pre to the longer and thinner iphone...but that's just a matter of preference.
post #63 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

I always thought Pre was Palm's version of Wii. A non-word easy to trademark that can only be associated with Palm's new phone.

Probably right. I assumed it was an acronym.

pretty reasonable effort

product of recent employes

predictable release ennui

...
post #64 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by donlphi View Post

I don't want to take away from your comment, as I think it's a true statement, but I am really curious about what everybody wants to multitask.

[...]

How many other things can you do at the same time on a phone?

Build that app you're working on while checking your email? Oh, right, Xcode doesn't run on the iPhone, yet.

Seriously though, I think the ability to securely share data/files between apps would be more useful than multitasking user processes.
post #65 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its been stated on these forums several times (and probably elsewhere) that Apples focus on games means that they are only interested in a making a toy, not a serious device. Also, something about the App Store being dominated by games. Silly comments.

Yeah, it's a theme in the tech site comments and elsewhere that works the old "Apple makes shiny toys for stupid people" meme, which never seems to really die no matter how much reality moves on.

Apparently all those apps aren't really anything to be impressed by, because most of them are fart apps or games and the iPhone is one big playpen for trendy teens 'n posers.

When you're ready to get "real work done" you'll of course reach for a WinMo, eh, Blackberry, eh, Android, eh, Pre!

I'm actually very interested in the psychology of "easy to use" equals "not serious." It's been a hallmark of anti-Apple sentiment since before I can remember. There was also a corollary notion, that "caring about the fit, finish and look of the user experience" equaled "vapid and shallow", but that has receded as MS and other have taken to tricking out their efforts with bling.
Back in Windows 3 days, it was taken as a truism that real computer users welcomed eye searingly ugly as proof that no valuable resources were being wasted on design.

Of course, back in those days "lot of game titles available" was also evidence of a superior platform, so I guess consistency isn't the long suit of the inveterate Apple basher.
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post #66 of 367
Processor- operating system? Are they the same processor - then let the OS wars begin!
post #67 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Preciously speaking, Palm presumed that if they made a preemptive presence before the preliminary 2009 iPhone preamble they would have a pretty precious lead, but they pre-released the Pre before it was a real predator which prevented the Pre from prevailing despite Palms McNamee presumptuous preaching of the iPhones predoom and the Pres preeminence.

Why you preening prevaricator!
post #68 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Probably right. I assumed it was an acronym.

pretty reasonable effort

product of recent employes

predictable release ennui

...

Nice!

Palm's Return, Evidently

Probably Eclipsed, Eventually
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post #69 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Preciously speaking, Palm presumed that if they made a preemptive presence before the preliminary 2009 iPhone preamble they would have a pretty precious lead, but they pre-released the Pre before it was a real predator which prevented the Pre from prevailing despite Palms McNamee presumptuous preaching of the iPhones predoom and the Pres preeminence.

Premendous!
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post #70 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Preciously speaking, Palm presumed that if they made a preemptive presence before the preliminary 2009 iPhone preamble they would have a pretty precious lead, but they pre-released the Pre before it was a real predator which prevented the Pre from prevailing despite Palms McNamee presumptuous preaching of the iPhones predoom and the Pres preeminence.

well done.
post #71 of 367
On another note, I found it amusing how hard the pre is being advertised on appleinsider
post #72 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

On another note, I found it amusing how hard the pre is being advertised on appleinsider

And kind of ironic which headline the Sprint logo seems to be pointing at.
post #73 of 367
iPhone still can't Multi-Task but overall it's a decent phone too.

http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-v...wser-head-head
post #74 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

On another note, I found it amusing how hard the pre is being advertised on appleinsider

image: http://gallery.me.com/cshort/100180/...12454644160001

I enjoyed peaking at your bookmarks and trying to figure out what some of them are. You still use LiveJournal? As for your Google search, were you looking up the movie Rom-Com?
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post #75 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post

... The hype and media attention was good for Palm so far, but when the quarterly results come out, they may kill Palm. I mean, my feeling is that the investor expectations are set too high. I still think that the only option for Palm to stay in the game is takeover from a deep-pocket company.

When Palm's quarterly results come out on June 25th, it will be for their quarter ending May 31st (or so), so there will most likely be no Pre sales included in the numbers. So it will definitely be dismal, but that is what's expected. So Palm could have a reprieve for one more quarter, and hopefully by Sept, they'll have announced or released a second phone.

But they could surprise next week by giving some insight into how the Pre is selling on the conference call, but given that Apple is likely to announce a 3G S sales milestone before then, anything Palm says will look very very small.
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post #76 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoneFrenzy View Post

iPhone still can't Multi-Task but overall it's a decent phone too.

http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-v...wser-head-head

I do agree with that bloggers preference for sliding cards. I wish Safari would allow that option.
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post #77 of 367
If you want to get caught up in the "which phone/service is better" then the ONLY competitor is the Crackberry (aka Blackberry from RIM).

8.7M sold in the last quarter.
Big number.
Better than the iPhone.

Android and Prē, not so much.
post #78 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

When Palm's quarterly results come out on June 25th, it will be for their quarter ending May 31st (or so), so there will most likely be no Pre sales included in the numbers.

It went on sale June 5th with the full release on the 6th. Theyll play up that people were expecting the Pre, which is true for those waiting for a new Palm device. I wish them and their shareholder luck.
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post #79 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

If you want to get caught up in the "which phone/service is better" then the ONLY competitor is the Crackberry (aka Blackberry from RIM).

8.7M sold in the last quarter.
Big number.
Better than the iPhone.

Android and Prē, not so much.

For marketshare, yes, but from a device that directly competes with the iPhone the Pre has been the closest competitor so far. It also has the best chance of competing directly in the future, at least at this time.

Apple doesnt seem to care about marketshare if it means lowering margins, though despite RiMs BOGO this last quarter which appears to have attributed greatly to their numbers they have still kept their margins at or higher than the iPhone and other smartphones. My fear for RiM as a company is not with their ability to sell more and more handsets each quarter but their ability to keep selling their expensive BES with expensive licensing for each device connected, which is their real money maker.
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post #80 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

the Pre has been the closest competitor

It is Prē and not Pre.
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