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Steve Jobs' return to Apple linked to liver transplant - Page 3

post #81 of 111
No, he doesn't have options. Apple originally gave him options (hence the options scandal), but later took them back and gave him stock instead. Jobs sold about half of this Apple stock [worth about 300 million at the time] to cover the taxes.


I think Apple now gives stock outright instead of options to high level employees. The employees have to stay with Apple for a certain number of years to be entitled to the stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Aren't there other significant perks too? I know he owns shares, but he doesn't also have options?
post #82 of 111
Go here http://www.dragyoutohell.com/view/Miscellaneous/44
post #83 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

He was a long time Windows user constantly yelling at his PC. Doctor told him had to get a Mac if expects to ever recover.

Not to make light of anyone's battle with an illness, but that comment is hilarious and I agree with it based on my PAST PC experiences. Ugh! Life is indeed better and more stress-free with a Mac!
post #84 of 111
Steve Jobs, I wish you all the best with your iLiver'09 upgrade. Peace.
post #85 of 111
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Originally Posted by rnp1 View Post

Wondering if you are next to get sick? Instead of a new iPhone or Touch, you may wanna give these folks $399 and see what your genetic material contains:
https://www.23andme.com/
Saw these gals on Charlie Rose.

23andme (23 pairs of chromosom).
This is Google's Sergei Brin's wife company.
post #86 of 111
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post #87 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp1 View Post

Wondering if you are next to get sick? Instead of a new iPhone or Touch, you may wanna give these folks $399 and see what your genetic material contains:
https://www.23andme.com/
Saw these gals on Charlie Rose.

I was set to get mine done a couple years ago but then I saw that only do a sample. I'll wait until they offer a complete Gattaca package, then I'll get it done.
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post #88 of 111
After reading this thread I felt compelled to respond. There is a lack of maturity and foresight in the many of the posts contained above. This achieves nothing. However some responders have made very valid contributions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrothey View Post

As a GI medical oncologist, I can assure you that a liver transplantation is one of the options to treat a metastatic neuroendocrine cancer of the pancreas. What most people do not realize is that SJ did NOT suffer from a "normal" pancreatic cancer, but from a rare tumor called "islet cell cancer", which is associated with a much better prognosis than pancreatic cancer. These tumors unfortunately commonly metastasize (seed) into the liver - but a liver transplant can cure patients.

Thank you for this contribution it makes a lot of sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrothey View Post

The WSJ story is perfectly plausible and explains some of the issues I was wondering about, e.g. the predefined set time frame of SJ's return to work.

Very valid. It could also point out that all parties involved, SJ, the Board, Medical personal etc... were all confident in the procedure that was to follow and the time frame required. The only question I have is how did they know that a suitable organ (unless a portion of organ was going to be used) would be found within the time frame. This therefore would suggest that transplant was only an option under consideration in January when SJ took medical leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I have no idea, but I wonder if the liver transplant was not due to the cancer spreading. Perhaps it was another issue...a reaction to treatment or wholly separate?

Secondly, I think Apple is full of shit. If he had a liver transplant and Apple didn't say anything, that's not right. Your CEO, who is described as a "luminary" my major pubs, has a liver transplant and you don't say anything? WTF? The fact is that Steve is wrong...his health is not a private matter. It's quite public because he is the CEO of a publicly traded corporation that depends on him...morseo than probably any other corporation on Earth.

Last...I wish him well. Let's hope he's got many years left.

This post illustrates some level of passion, even though I don't agree with some of what is stated. SJ was not the CEO of apple at the time of the transplant and therefore was not obliged to reveal anything of his health. He had stepped down for medical reasons, so he told the share holders that he was unable to continue as CEO for the moment and needed to see to his health. The share holders were not in the dark, they knew that SJ was ill, they only didn't know the extent of the illness which frankly was none of their business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrothey View Post

OK - here is more. I want to caution everyone, though, that I have at no time been involved in SJ's care and that I only gather information from what everyone else is reading - with my background as a medical oncologist who is actually treating patients with islet cell cancers like SJ.

Apple routinely mentioned an "hormonal imbalance" as reason for SJ's weight loss. Now, islet cell cancers can produce certain hormones (such as glucagon, somatostatin, vasoactive-intestinal peptide (VIP) etc) which can interfere with a normal gastrointestinal function and the way a body utilizes nutrients (carbohydrates, protein, fat). When an islet cell cancer recurs and produces liver metastases, these hormonal effects can lead to significant and rapid weight loss. Thus, it could well be that Apple's statements were somewhat true. Right now it does appear that SJ's tumor had spread to his liver, which is commonly the ONLY site of spread within a body. That's why it can makes sense to replace the liver in certain cases - and I am sure he will have been carefully evaluated for this.

For now we should wish him well and hope that he will be recovering fast. Again, the liver transplantation can offer a chance of cure in this situation - and that's I guess most important.

Just to emphasis, the shareholders had a lot more knowledge of SJ's potential illness, the board had ensured that the shareholders had a level of knowledge that was somewhat accurate. SJ and the board was relatively confident that the condition could be rectified with the proper medical attention hence, took the necessary steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

Aside from Steve Jobs's medical issues, it's pretty clear from the keynote presentation at the WWDC 2009 that Jobs has firmly installed a unique product development and marketing culture at all levels within Apple. No matter how actively Jobs resumes his management role, his legacy has been established. The management and troops continually outstrip the competition and even lead the marketplace with innovations that actually anticipate customer wants and needs. This six-month hiatus of sorts has been a great testing period. Snow Leopard, the 3G S, iPhone software v. 3, and the freshened notebook line all demonstrate that Apple's powerful momentum continues unabated. Apple customers, employees and investors have Steve Jobs to thank for it.

This is a very valid post. Steve is not prepared to let what happened in the past happen again, so he ensured that he nurtured the culture, ensured that visionaries have been brought into the company and that Apples success in the future is guaranteed. If we look back through time, Apples darkest days was when Steve was forced out of Apple by the then board (hope I am accurate on that). Steve was eventually bought back in through the acquisition of NeXT, eventually becoming the CEO (a role that he didn't initially want). Nonetheless he did what was required of him and developed a very strong executive team

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post

Unfortunately, the information is likely true.

What bothers me is the timing. We had several bursts of media activity on SJ health already. Most of them turned out to be correct, but the timing suspiciously coincides with other [positive] Apple related news. Spreading FUD regarding SJ health either steals the spotlight from remarkable Apple new products/product launches or impressive financial results.

I might be paranoid but this does not mean my conspiracy theory is entirely wrong.

Really hope SJ will recover and stay with Apple for years to come.

I think the timing in this case was controlled by Apple. They knew that the information had to become public so they picked a time when Apple was receiving very favorable media attention with the introduction of the new iPhone. What better time to leak the news that SJ would be returning to work on schedule after seeing to his medical condition and having a liver transplant.

In the past the media activity surrounding SJs health was pure speculation, and only coincided with other Apple news (WWDC 2008, iPod launch 2008) because SJ made the announcements appearing very under weight himself. This caused a media frenzy and speculation on the part of the media which over shadowed the announcements. What differs in this case is that the focus has been on the products which have gained the desired traction and if reports can be believed, surpassed previous years sales. None of the focus or speculation has been on SJ.

Maybe the timing is ideal, and maybe SJ is back in the office this coming week. Maybe as Steve might state himself the reports are greatly exaggerated (Apple special event September 2008 The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

BS. The CEO of a public company works at the pleasure of the Board not the public shareholders. If the Board is satisfied that the CEO is performing his or her duties properly, that is all that is needed. Of course, if unhappy shareholders own enough shares they can get the Board members replaced.

Apple shareholders like Jobs. He has made them a lot of money. I doubt any long time holder of Apple stock is clamoring for Jobs to leave anytime before he is ready to leave. I know I am not. The company is being run well, Jobs gets a dollar a year, and he has already earned the shares he received [Jobs owns shares outright, not options].

Agreed 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

Steve has set up a great executive team as his legacy. He can certainly walk away from Apple knowing that it is in good hands. I would like him back as much as anyone but I believe that may be asking for too much.

I'm sure he won't be back this month having a liver transplant two months ago. The recovery is much longer than that.

All the best and a quick recovery Steve!

If the information is true (I question the lack of a source, but the WSJ must be confident in it) and if Steve has had a liver transplant, then the return of SJ to the work maybe asking too much. However, the time frame for Steves absence was clearly defined, it was clearly stated that "hormonal imbalance" was the reason for SJ's weight loss and as agrothey pointed out above, a transplant given SJs previous medical issues would have been one of the possible remedies. Considering this facts then the timeframe would have been pre-calculated (assuming all went well and there was no complications) and therefore Steves return maybe on schedule.

We must also consider that number of Steves friends/colleagues has indicated that they have spoken to him in recent weeks and that he was sounding very energetic. At this poin one can only assume that these individuals had knowledge of Steves condition and were confident that he would be back soon.

Also it was reported in previous weeks that SJ was on campus at Cupertino (well at lease his car was parked in SJs reserved parking space). This when coupled with the other indicators may suggest that SJ is preparing for his return to the office as defined.

However, maybe the leak late Friday was to prepare us for a possibility that Steve will not be back as soon as anticipated due to the seriousness of his operation. This coupled with an article (not sure where) that indicated that Apple might hold SJs return back until a future product launch. The possibility also exists that he may not resume his duties as CEO, but could take on a new yet to be defined role. What is certain is that Steve will know when it is time to step down as CEO.

We can continue to speculate here, either way, we know that Steve is on the road to recovery and will be back on campus in the not to distant future.

To all the immature, pointless and uneducated posters who have contributed above, grow up!

SJ has given his heart and sole to Apple for many years and will continue to so long into the future. He has brought together an executive team that he trusts and is more than capable to continue to grow the company that he founded. They along with him have created a product roadmap into the future that will forge forward. Rumors have it that a new product is nearing completion. A device that uses a 10 display, maybe something that has evolved from a historical figure that featured in Apples original logo! Time will tell.

The future is bright, will be evolutionary, will be innovative and will be influenced by SJs Apple

Finally, Steve thank you for Apple, thank you for sharing your visions and we look forward to seeing the future you envisage.

Take care and ignore the speculators, me included.
post #89 of 111
Pic of Woz stretcher at http://www.woz.org/Features/dance/im...nce3_20_09.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by handbrake View Post

After reading this thread I felt compelled to respond. There is a lack of maturity and foresight in the many of the posts contained above. This achieves nothing....
post #90 of 111
It's far from certain that the health of a CEO is nobody's business but their own. Public corporations are required by SEC rules to disclose anything which would have a material impact on the value of shareholder equity (read: share price). Whether this includes major health issues for key executives is debatable, but I don't think it's debatable that questions about whether Steve can to continue serving as CEO have had a material impact on AAPL shareholder equity.
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post #91 of 111
I really see no point in speculating about his illness, what type of cancer, whether it's this or that kind, etc.

All we'll end up doing is just wallowing in medical misinformation for 15 pages.

We'll know nothing for certain until Steve Jobs returns.

Getting into arguments with each other over what cancer means, or worse yet, arguments with current and former cancer patients, is just beyond silly. Honestly, at this point, does it really matter what kind of cancer he had, or whether he received a liver transplant or some other transplant?? The man is ill. We know it and accept it. And by now shareholders know it and accept it. Shareholders have already gotten used to the idea of Steve's absence. The only appropriate thing to do at this point is to wish him well and get on with discussing products that Schiller and team have introduced and will introduce. That's it.
post #92 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by irobot2004 View Post

According to wikipedia, the inventor died recently from side effects of chemotherapy...

Dam, at least he planted the seed and got things started.

Strange he didn't attempt his own cure.

I would have.
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post #93 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Shareholders have already gotten used to the idea of Steve's absence. The only appropriate thing to do at this point is to wish him well and get on with discussing products that Schiller and team have introduced and will introduce. That's it.

Maybe, but I doubt it. Try to imagine what would happen to AAPL if it was announced that Steve was not returning to Apple at the end of the month. Plummet city. We all know about the perception of his importance to the future of the company, so why try to pretend otherwise?

It's not clear whether Apple has put a team in place which can replace Steve's guidance over the long haul. A lot of people (myself included) think that needs to happen in a more apparent, definitive way. Soon. It needed to happen a long time ago, really.

My thought is that Steve needs a disengagement plan similar to one Bill Gates used to depart Microsoft. The first logical step is to move from CEO to Chairman of the Board.
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post #94 of 111
zipp it
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post #95 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by handbrake View Post

After reading this thread I felt compelled to respond. There is a lack of maturity and foresight in the many of the posts contained above. This achieves nothing. ...

Speaking of maturity, how mature is it to use the name of a program for stealing media content as your handle?
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post #96 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Speaking of maturity, how mature is it to use the name of a program for stealing media content as your handle?

I believe handbrake only converts files. It doesn't break encryption. That's for MacTheRipper to do. But this is just from memory, I could be wrong.
post #97 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Speaking of maturity, how mature is it to use the name of a program for stealing media content as your handle?

Walked into the door on that one. BLAMMO!!
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post #98 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Speaking of maturity, how mature is it to use the name of a program for stealing media content as your handle?

And you, in your all-seeing wisdom, must somehow know he is not basing it on what it originally stood for (i.e., a car part) before a program for 'stealing media content' stole the name?
post #99 of 111
Talk about thread drift -- wow!
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post #100 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I believe handbrake only converts files. It doesn't break encryption. That's for MacTheRipper to do. But this is just from memory, I could be wrong.

Handbrake breaks encryption. If it didn't, for most discs, it would mean a two-step process to get a converted file.

I'm not sure why it escapes the movie cartel's notice though.
post #101 of 111
There are two possibilities here: either someone in the hospital sold their story to the Wall Street Journal, in which case, they are liable to dismissal and large fines. This is illegal under US law called HIPAA. Recently, a number of medical personel were caught selling medical information to the Enquirer, etc., about sick celebrities, and Mrs. Schwarzenegger's, medical conditions. They were caught and fired by the hospital, to escape liability. They could still be sued and fined. So, it's not anybody close to the operation, and a doctor or nurse could lose accreditation.

So I question the ethics of the reporters, getting information despite the HIPAA enforcement that guarantees privacy. Where did they get this from? Is it important that we know this? When or if he comes back, he owes his board, and the stockholders to some degree, an accounting of his health status. He owes the world nothing at all. And he especially owes nothing to the sharks of the WSJ, now working for Rupert, who may or may not have dug out facts -- for what purpose? These guys have been hot to get Jobs for years now. Little scoundrels of Wall Street, which evidently should be the ultimate purveyor of our morality, right?

The other possibility is that Apple itself floated the story to see how it would play just before Jobs' return. Or that it was floated by someone who wants his job, and doesn't want Jobs back. If that's the case, there's going to be one empty seat at Apple, and it won't be Steve's.
post #102 of 111
iPhone 3.0 fixes 47 security issues, iPhone 3Gs offers faster "secure wipes" and encrypts entire data. and a lot more info here

http://www.networkworld.com/communit...comment-210663


I would submit it via "News" link but it doesn't work.
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post #103 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

iPhone 3.0 fixes 47 security issues, iPhone 3Gs offers faster "secure wipes" and encrypts entire data. and a lot more info here

http://www.networkworld.com/communit...comment-210663


I would submit it via "News" link but it doesn't work.

The encryption key for the storage isn't working how I expected it to. I can send a Remote Wipe to either iPhone model and have more than enough time after it recieves the command and starts the procedure to restart the devices, thereby canceling the wipe. Their are other issues with this new feature that need to be addressed, too.

The first thing the Remote Wipe should do is make the command an immediate part of the OS, so that when the device is turned back on it starts to wipe again. It also needs to be setup that you don't need to have Push mail or duration to grab mail setup for the command to work, and make it so the MobileMe account and Find My iPhone service require a password to be altered.

But it's a free service that wasn't in MM when I signed up and it's only been live for a week now I'm okay with a few growing pains.
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post #104 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The encryption key for the storage isn't working how I expected it to. I can send a Remote Wipe to either iPhone model and have more than enough time after it recieves the command and starts the procedure to restart the devices, thereby canceling the wipe. Their are other issues with this new feature that need to be addressed, too.

The first thing the Remote Wipe should do is make the command an immediate part of the OS, so that when the device is turned back on it starts to wipe again. It also needs to be setup that you don't need to have Push mail or duration to grab mail setup for the command to work, and make it so the MobileMe account and Find My iPhone service require a password to be altered.

But it's a free service that wasn't in MM when I signed up and it's only been live for a week now I'm okay with a few growing pains.

Issues to be fixed in the upcoming patch.

Looks like when sending a Remote Wipe, to do it during the middle of the night.

Suppose with 3Gs, all the data is encrypted, so only the key is wiped, unlike 3G where a scrub has to ensure a wipe.
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post #105 of 111
I think media and such forums are giving too much attention to Steve's health. This is a private matter and should be left as such. I am very happy that Steve is feeling better and getting back to work soon. But, eventually we will all have accept Apple without Steve. Sure, Steve might be the driving factor behind various decisions made at Apple, but it is really all the people at Apple who make it happen and I am sure Steve agrees to that also. Obviously, the Palm Pre is certainly an example of that - "Ex-Apple employees minus Steve" created one find product!
post #106 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Claiming as always to know people familiar with Apple's inner workings, the Wall Street Journal

WSJ using tabloid tactics. wow this is a whole new world. I really loved the use of doctors that have probably never met Jobs but are happy to make comments about his sitch

Quote:
Jobs' physicians have reportedly advised him

no way did his doctors make comment to anyone about this and Jobs have been too burned by the media and the meddling with stock prices to speak up until it can be done publicly and with a positive spin.

Quote:
The transplant, if true,

key words: If true.

Quote:
None of the hospitals committed to regularly performing liver transplants say they have Jobs as a patient.

If they had it would be a lawsuit that would make the whole Psystar thing look like a tea party. And there's no question of exactly what laws would be at issue on this one

And something else to keep in mind. Given what happened last year with the stocks tanking every time Jobs sneezed, giving a date -- even just a month -- of return from a medical leave would be PR suicide if they knew that a liver or partial liver transplant was happening. Jobs is in such a state of health that everything is totally unpredictable, which is why they didn't expect the hormonal etc issues that happened and started this. No way would they have made a firm statement and stuck to it.

oh and he has friends living in Tennessee. the kind of rich friends that would be happy for him to go there and hide from the media with his laptop for video chats and emails to the board. so just maybe that is why his jet supposed few there a couple of months ago. just saying
post #107 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

There are two possibilities here: either someone in the hospital sold their story to the Wall Street Journal, in which case, they are liable to dismissal and large fines. This is illegal under US law called HIPAA. Recently, a number of medical personel were caught selling medical information to the Enquirer, etc., about sick celebrities, and Mrs. Schwarzenegger's, medical conditions. They were caught and fired by the hospital, to escape liability. They could still be sued and fined. So, it's not anybody close to the operation, and a doctor or nurse could lose accreditation.

Possibly so, but hospital personnel are not the only potential source of this story, so it's premature to wave the HIPAA flag. Reporters find out things. This is their job.

Quote:
So I question the ethics of the reporters, getting information despite the HIPAA enforcement that guarantees privacy. Where did they get this from? Is it important that we know this? When or if he comes back, he owes his board, and the stockholders to some degree, an accounting of his health status. He owes the world nothing at all. And he especially owes nothing to the sharks of the WSJ, now working for Rupert, who may or may not have dug out facts -- for what purpose? These guys have been hot to get Jobs for years now. Little scoundrels of Wall Street, which evidently should be the ultimate purveyor of our morality, right?

Not right. Steve is the CEO of a public corporation, entrusted with the livelihoods of tens of thousands of employees, and by law is responsible to investors. it is these employees and investors who are responsible ultimately for Steve's prosperity. So the argument that he "owes the world nothing at all" rings false. That's just not how it works.

Quote:
The other possibility is that Apple itself floated the story to see how it would play just before Jobs' return. Or that it was floated by someone who wants his job, and doesn't want Jobs back. If that's the case, there's going to be one empty seat at Apple, and it won't be Steve's.

Highly unlikely on all counts.
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post #108 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiseki View Post

I'm skeptical about this "news". If he really did suffer a relapse of his cancer, the last thing he'd want to do would be to get any kind of transplant. Cancer cells are formed in our bodies all the time but fortunately we have immune systems which destroy most of them and protect us.
If you get a transplant and take the required immunosuppressants, that's probably the worst thing for your cancer since you're removing your only innate protection against cancer cells.

Another thing about the liver is that it is one of the few regenerative organs in the body. You can actually remove most of a person's liver and it will grow back. Which means Jobs had such invasive cancer that he needed a liver transplant (instead of just cutting out the diseased parts), and there's no way his doctors would have let cancer progress to that stage without taking action long before.
It makes much more sense to believe his story that it was a metabolic problem and his liver had stopped functioning. In that case, it would make sense to get a transplant and his prognosis, barring side effects from the immunosuppressants should be pretty good.

Yet another expert backseat driver...sigh
post #109 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Why doesn't the lifespan return to normal once the cancer is removed? I don't understand.

..but I don't think we can help you...understand that is;-)
post #110 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

I just finished 8 months of chemo and radition for throat cancer. And dude shut the f up.

A single cancer cell ?? That is not how my cancer progresses. And every cancer is different . And different types of cancer can attack the same place of your body.

So you can't fucking generalize. You have to be specific to that cancer.

No doctor ever found a single cancer cell . They look for clumps of maybe 100 or 500 cells. No tests can show one call and every human alive has at least 20 cancer cells or more at anyone time. It is a problem when they grow and spread and after treatment like my throat cancer, they now look at my chest and head only. It does not jump all over, That's my type of cancer. Some other types of cancers can jump. They are the deadly ones. Pancreatic cancer is maybe the worst or if not one the worst its up there. Steve jobs went thru hell for a long time with his illness.

First of all, I must stress the fact that being polite is important and you cannot say to someone you don't know that he should "shut the f up".

Second, I am not an oncologist, but I am a general practitioner (GP). And I certainly know more about cancer than you do : even though you had one, this does obviously does not give you a diploma in oncology !

Yes, you are right : "no doctor ever found a single cancer cell". That is the problem, and that is why chemotherapy is used to treat cancer patients even when the cancer is thought to be local (not metastasized) : to kill this elusive cell that might be somewhere else in the body. Because, you know, it only takes a cell to make a clump -> a mass -> a whole new tumor.

The fact that "no doctor ever found a single cancer cell" and that doctors "look for clumps of maybe 100 or 500 cells" only shows the current limitation of the technologies available, not the fact that it is not true.

You will note that I never wrote that cancer cells "jump all over" : they do, however, follow certain paths, usually along the lymphatic drainage system (hence the lymph nodes often being metastastic sites) or the veins.

Of course, I was writing about cancers in general because the thread was in danger of being filled with gossips and beliefs about cancer and I wanted to avoid this. I am happy that agrothey could add more specific information about SJ's particular cancer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Chemo is an excellent killer of cancer cells when added with heavy radiation.

I don't want to burst your bubble, but if chemotherapy was that good, we would be able to cure cancer. The fact is, we cannot in most cases. In the current state of affairs, cancer treatment in 2009 is akin to damage control more than to a cure. Certain types of cancer have higher remission rates than other, and some are even curable (some types of leukaemia in children are a good example). Keep in mind however, that if chemotherapy was that good, we would not talk about "survival rates at 5 years" of various cancer, but about "cure rates". By the way, chemo is an excellent killer of cells - any cells - not just cancerous ones. And this is why certain chemotherapies will cause loss of hair for instance.

Same thing about radiotherapy. It is a nice component of our arsenal against cancer, but this weapon cannot be used against every cancer, because it is not always useful. It was in your type of cancer, yes, but it is not always the case.

It is important to realize that cancers vary in severity and in responsiveness to the various treatment available depending on the original cell that went bad. A squamous cell cancer of the larynx - like you most likely had - will not be treated like a glioblastoma (a type of brain cancer) neither will it be treated like the type of pancreatic cancer SJ had. In the case of your particular cancer, you are right to say that a certain protocol of chemotherapy and radiation is the treatment. But not for all the cancers that exist.

Finally, note that a single organ may be the site of different kinds of cancers (not all at once, of course) and the various types of cancer will not be treated in the same way. In the larynx, there are squamous cell cancers, but there are various other too. And each of those won't be treated the same way.

Despite all their difference however, the inner working of all cancers is the same : a cell somehow goes bad, our defence (immune) system does not recognize it as bad and the cell is allowed to live, the bad cell multiplies itself and eventually seeds elsewhere. Since cancerous cell replicate without any limitation, they eventually invade all the body, eventually encroaching on some vital organ's space thus causing death by the dysfunction of that vital organ. (Hence the goal of limiting the spread of the cells.)
post #111 of 111
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Originally Posted by sp.8472 View Post

INDEED but what else would you expect from the same clueless dope that used alternative therapy, wasting MONTHS of precious time BEFORE an URGENTLY (relating to chance of survival) recommended surgery to remove the initial neuroendocrine tumour?

Be careful here : this is a very common reaction in newly diagnosed cancer patients. There is a very complex reaction to this terrible news that causes many conflicting realities to emerge, based on past experiences and cultural background of the person.
1- Denial : "maybe if I change me habits it will go away".
2 - Fear of suffering : "cancer is pain ; chemo is pain ; I don't want to suffer"...
3 - Christian cultural background. Cancer = sin -> sin requires redemption -> purification of the self is required -> a drastic change of lifestyle is performed as a show of redemption. (The idea of redemption exist in most religion, and similar reasoning can be found.)

Nearly every recently diagnosed person with cancer will go through this. Some will accept to start a treatment immediately. Others need time with themselves before accepting all the harsh treatments medicine offers today. It is very easy to dismiss those people. There is no need to be angry at them: instead, we must accompany them in their process. Steve Jobs, for instance, has very strong hindu-type beliefs. We also know he is vegetarian (if not vegan). If it is true that he did not accept treatments right away, we could surmise that he needed to reconcile the terrible news with the lifestyle he had chosen probably to avoid this type of destiny. There is no need to laugh at the man : he needed to digest the news, that is all.

Now of course, if cancer treatment was efficient and offered a cure, it would be criminal to wait for someone to be "ready". But considering the success rate and the consequences of cancer treatment on quality of life, it is totally ethical to accompany a person without insisting on injecting all sorts of poison right away.

Because human psychology is often weird, someone may have been very much in denial at first, but when he finally accepts the diagnosis, he may suddenly accept or even request even the most uncertain treatment protocols, just to stay alive. This is where we may be. Although I am not a specialist in neuroendocrine tumours of the pancreas (so maybe it is after all a pretty standard procedure ?). If we are bordering on futile treatment, then of course it is not ethical to give them only because they are requested : in those care psychological help is required.
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