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The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality - Page 26

post #1001 of 2277
3/3/10 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Anyone watching Obama right now? He's put together a media event in the East Room. The new talking points:

1) Republican positions have been incorporated into the bill.
2) It's a bipartisan effort
3) The bill will bring down the deficit.
4) The bill will lower premiums
5) Healthcare has majority support in the house and had supermajority in the Senate.
6) We've had enough debate. It's time to pass the bill.


Oh my God.

You can watch it here- http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/20...care+plan.aspx

VP Joe can step in to guide the reconciliation -

"Should passing health care reform come down to the use of reconciliation -- and all signs point that way -- Vice President Joseph Biden could play a hugely influential role in determining not only what's in the bill but whether or not it passes.

Two experts in the arcane rules of the Senate said on Monday that, as president of the Senate, Biden has the capacity not just to overrule any ruling that the parliamentarian may make but also to cut off efforts by Republicans to offer unlimited amendments."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_481031.html

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #1002 of 2277
3/3/10 at 12:15pm
When it started in 1965, Congress estimated (in inflation adjusted dollars) the cost of Medicare would be $12B in 1990. It was about $100B.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1003 of 2277
3/3/10 at 1:42pm
While it is not impossible that Congress will pass a bill somewhat like the President's/Senate version, I would not count on it. It is still a significant uphill struggle and political suicide for Democrats in the fall.

Reconcilation is rather complicated, with plenty of opportunities for a de-railment. A good run down over the mechanics are at:

http://keithhennessey.com/2010/03/01...ll-challenges/

Hopefully this will not pass, because if it does it will make the projected tax increases even greater. Moreover, it strikes me as our own experiment in Fabian socialism that will, as it did to the UK after WWII, harken in a few decades of once what was called "English disease" (at least until Thatcher helped keep the ship afloat).

It really won't affect me much, I'll be a member of the grey panthers in several years and we will use our baby boomer voting power to protect our med benefits...but it will amuse me to hear all the pissing and moaning of younger generations of Obamabots when reality imposes itself.

And don't think I won't rub it in..heh heh.
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post #1004 of 2277
3/3/10 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

While it is not impossible that Congress will pass a bill somewhat like the President's/Senate version, I would not count on it. It is still a significant uphill struggle and political suicide for Democrats in the fall.

Reconcilation is rather complicated, with plenty of opportunities for a de-railment. A good run down over the mechanics are at:

http://keithhennessey.com/2010/03/01...ll-challenges/

Hopefully this will not pass, because if it does it will make the projected tax increases even greater. Moreover, it strikes me as our own experiment in Fabian socialism that will, as it did to the UK after WWII, harken in a few decades of once what was called "English disease" (at least until Thatcher helped keep the ship afloat).

It really won't affect me much, I'll be a member of the grey panthers in several years and we will use our baby boomer voting power to protect our med benefits...but it will amuse me to hear all the pissing and moaning of younger generations of Obamabots when reality imposes itself.

And don't think I won't rub it in..heh heh.

I think it's possible it may pass the Senate with a few more than the majority needed, but that it might not get through the house. A lot of dems are not comfortable with reconciliationand may not vote for it as a result.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #1005 of 2277
3/4/10 at 5:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

When it started in 1965, Congress estimated (in inflation adjusted dollars) the cost of Medicare would be $12B in 1990. It was about $100B.

They didn't expect everybody in the health care providing chain to send their people to Washington to claim their piece of the pie and make it bigger through backdoor deals (bribes), and they certainly didn't expect budget committees and fund managers to accept those deals (bribes).
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post #1006 of 2277
3/4/10 at 5:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

They didn't expect everybody in the health care providing chain to send their people to Washington to claim their piece of the pie and make it bigger through backdoor deals (bribes), and they certainly didn't expect budget committees and fund managers to accept those deals (bribes).

And it will be different this time because?

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post #1007 of 2277
3/4/10 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

It really won't affect me much, I'll be a member of the grey panthers in several years and we will use our baby boomer voting power to protect our med benefits...but it will amuse me to hear all the pissing and moaning of younger generations of Obamabots when reality imposes itself.

Personally, I think that a senior citizen would benefit from the legislation. I'd prefer to not saddle my kids with the all that debt though, if I can help it.
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post #1008 of 2277
3/4/10 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

And it will be different this time because?

It won't, and that's exactly my point. If you read this whole thread you'd see that I'm against the Obama proposal.

But just like Dennis K., I'm against it because it doesn't come close to going far enough to regulate the industry to cut costs (while the Conservatives are saying it regulates too much!) and provide the poor with the choice of easily accessible fully subsidized healthcare.
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post #1009 of 2277
3/4/10 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It won't, and that's exactly my point. If you read this whole thread you'd see that I'm against the Obama proposal.

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread. Glad to hear you are opposed to "obamacare."


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

But just like Dennis K., I'm against it because it doesn't come close to going far enough to regulate the industry to cut costs (while the Conservatives are saying it regulates too much!) and provide the poor with the choice of easily accessible fully subsidized healthcare.

Well, since I have never seen any evidence that regulation ever reduces costs and in fact actually raises costs, let alone providing people with more choices and more accessible products or services I will have to disagree with you on this one.

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post #1010 of 2277
3/4/10 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well, since I have never seen any evidence that regulation ever reduces costs and in fact actually raises costs, let alone providing people with more choices and more accessible products or services I will have to disagree with you on this one.

And that totally contradicts what we just agreed upon -- that graft and backdoor deals is what is wrong with health care in the US. It's just... awesome... to hear that you're against fixing that.

Seriously... if you really do want to fix the problem with "dealmaking" (i.e. corruption), how do you expect to do that without regulation? Rely on the good will of the American medical entrepreneur or the honesty of the American politician?
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post #1011 of 2277
3/4/10 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And that totally contradicts what we just agreed upon -- that graft and backdoor deals is what is wrong with health care in the US. It's just... awesome... to hear that you're against fixing that.

But you seem to be missing the root cause here. The graft and corruption is happening in conjunction with government control and regulation of the industry. This is as it is and as it always has been (at least in the U.S., and elsewhere too I suspect). When the power to control an industry is centralized and consolidated into one place (e.g., congress or the various agencies in Washington) the vested interests will be drawn to control and manipulate this power like a pit bull on a baby. When you looker deeper into these things you will find that the incumbent players within industries have always been instrumental in creating, lobbying for, shaping and controlling the regulation of their industries. Forget what it looks like on the surface. Forget what might be said publicly. Look at who benefits, who wins and who is actually in control.

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post #1012 of 2277
3/4/10 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Seriously... if you really do want to fix the problem with "dealmaking" (i.e. corruption), how do you expect to do that without regulation?

By dispersing and distributing power rather than centralizing and consolidating it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Rely on the good will of the American medical entrepreneur

Partly. But more precisely on free market forces which, free from special government protections and regulations will force businesses to serve their customers. I suspect you don't agree with or believe this though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

or the honesty of the American politician?

No. But, ironically, this is exactly what you are suggesting we do!

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post #1013 of 2277
3/4/10 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

But you seem to be missing the root cause here. The graft and corruption is happening in conjunction with government control and regulation of the industry. This is as it is and as it always has been (at least in the U.S., and elsewhere too I suspect). When the power to control an industry is centralized and consolidated into one place (e.g., congress or the various agencies in Washington) the vested interests will be drawn to control and manipulate this power like a pit bull on a baby. When you looker deeper into these things you will find that the incumbent players within industries have always been instrumental in creating, lobbying for, shaping and controlling the regulation of their industries. Forget what it looks like on the surface. Forget what might be said publicly. Look at who benefits, who wins and who is actually in control.

OK. So there are no backdoor deals between Big Pharma and private insurers. Gotcha.
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post #1014 of 2277
3/4/10 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

No. But, ironically, this is exactly what you are suggesting we do!

No, I'm suggesting we have clearly published guidelines that are out there for individuals to scrutinize, with severe penalties for graft and profiteering.
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post #1015 of 2277
3/4/10 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

OK. So there are no backdoor deals between Big Pharma and private insurers. Gotcha.

Now that's bizarre. How did you arrive at that from what I said?

Besides, why would I care about such deals? What I care about is the delivery of health care when I need at a price I can afford. If your contention is that this is not happening because of these "backdoor deals between Big Pharma and private insurers" then prove it.

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post #1016 of 2277
3/4/10 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, I'm suggesting we have clearly published guidelines that are out there for individuals to scrutinize, with severe penalties for graft and profiteering.

That's a nice fantasy. Let me know when that happens. I'm betting never. But you could be right. If we just get the right people in power then we'll be able to create what you've suggested.

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post #1017 of 2277
3/4/10 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

OK. So there are no backdoor deals between Big Pharma and private insurers. Gotcha.

Exactly!! Left to their own devices their only concern is to make more profits. How anyone can argue otherwise with a straight face, after all that's been going on in the US leaving people without health care, is truly absurd.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #1018 of 2277
3/4/10 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Exactly!! Left to their own devices their only concern is to make more profits. How anyone can argue otherwise with a straight face, after all that's been going on in the US leaving people without health care, is truly absurd.

Yeah, it's almost (but not quite) as ridiculous as believing that if we just put the government in charge of things the world will be a far better place, free from corruption, influence peddling, partisan power plays, vote purchasing, the creation of unsustainable entitlement programs that steal from one politically unpopular group and give to another politically popular or well-connected group, bailouts of politically well-connected entities at the expense of people who were more careful, honest and competent, cost estimates for programs that are frequently off by an order of magnitude (in the optimistic direction) not to mention the overt and covert politicization of things like health care, banking, mortgages, energy, employment and anything else the government touches.

Yeah, it's private and free entrepreneurs who think they deserve a little profit for delivering goods and services people want and who must freely compete and get their money by voluntary exchanges that we really ought to be concerned about.

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post #1019 of 2277
3/4/10 at 1:51pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
A little profit? How about systematic rape of those who can afford it least?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #1020 of 2277
3/4/10 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

A little profit? How about systematic rape of those who can afford it least?

How about systematic use of hyperbole?

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post #1021 of 2277
3/4/10 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yeah, it's almost (but not quite) as ridiculous as believing that if we just put the government in charge of things the world will be a far better place, free from corruption, influence peddling, partisan power plays, vote purchasing, the creation of unsustainable entitlement programs that steal from one politically unpopular group and give to another politically popular or well-connected group, bailouts of politically well-connected entities at the expense of people who were more careful, honest and competent, cost estimates for programs that are frequently off by an order of magnitude (in the optimistic direction) not to mention the overt and covert politicization of things like health care, banking, mortgages, energy, employment and anything else the government touches.

Yeah, it's private and free entrepreneurs who think they deserve a little profit for delivering goods and services people want and who must freely compete and get their money by voluntary exchanges that we really ought to be concerned about.

You know here in the UK we have healthcare for all, as does nearly all of the other developed countries, except the US. Businesses make good money and if you ask people would you rather have the system people have in the US, people would just laugh at you. The fact is that millions of American's need just basic care and aren't getting it because it makes someone richer for them not to.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

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post #1022 of 2277
3/4/10 at 2:32pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

How about systematic use of hyperbole?

Nah, that's the sad thing. It really doesn't fit into the category of hyperbole. Hyperbole suggests extreme exaggeration. I don't find what I said to be extreme. Yes, exaggeration, but not extreme.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #1023 of 2277
3/4/10 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Nah, that's the sad thing. It really doesn't fit into the category of hyperbole. Hyperbole suggests extreme exaggeration. I don't find what I said to be extreme. Yes, exaggeration, but not extreme.

Not sure how to break this to you but just because that's the world as you see it, doesn't mean it is the world as it really exists. Yes, it is extreme exaggeration. So long as you are the ledge like that you won't see things rationally and dispassionately so you can contribute in a meaningful way to constructive solutions.

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post #1024 of 2277
3/4/10 at 3:22pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Not sure how to break this to you but just because that's the world as you see it, doesn't mean it is the world as it really exists. Yes, it is extreme exaggeration. So long as you are the ledge like that you won't see things rationally and dispassionately so you can contribute in a meaningful way to constructive solutions.

Not sure how to break this to you but just because that's the world as you see it, doesn't mean it is the world as it really exists.

By the way, which banned member are you again?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #1025 of 2277
3/4/10 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

fact is that millions of American's need just basic care and aren't getting it because it makes someone richer for them not to.

And those someones work very hard to create a narrative and repeat it frequently enough so that the masses will buy into it to their own detriment. Sickly genius.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #1026 of 2277
3/4/10 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You know here in the UK we have healthcare for all, as does nearly all of the other developed countries, except the US. Businesses make good money and if you ask people would you rather have the system people have in the US, people would just laugh at you. The fact is that millions of American's need just basic care and aren't getting it because it makes someone richer for them not to.

I'm not saying the current system in the U.S. is perfect - I think we all agree reform is needed. Where we disagree is the level of involvement the federal government should have in it.

Because stuff like this can happen when the government runs your healthcare:

The NHS scandal that cost a young boy's life

Patients cheated in NHS waiting list scandal

Appalling care at British hospital of horrors

Failed hospital bosses given pay rises while crisis unfolded

NHS puts targets ahead of patients reports warned

There's more where that came from.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #1027 of 2277
3/4/10 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I'm not saying the current system in the U.S. is perfect - I think we all agree reform is needed. Where we disagree is the level of involvement the federal government should have in it.

Because stuff like this can happen when the government runs your healthcare:

The NHS scandal that cost a young boy's life

Patients cheated in NHS waiting list scandal

Appalling care at British hospital of horrors

Failed hospital bosses given pay rises while crisis unfolded

NHS puts targets ahead of patients reports warned

There's more where that came from.

And stuff like that happens when corporations run health care. So what's your point?
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post #1028 of 2277
3/4/10 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And stuff like that happens when corporations run health care. So what's your point?

Government run healthcare is not the solution.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #1029 of 2277
3/5/10 at 2:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Government run healthcare is not the solution.

It's not the solution to the corruption problem, but it's still a solution for the accessibility issue. What's your solution for the accessibility issue? "Can't afford health care? Tough shit!?"
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post #1030 of 2277
3/5/10 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It's not the solution to the corruption problem, but it's still a solution for the accessibility issue. What's your solution for the accessibility issue? "Can't afford health care? Tough shit!?"

And if jazzguru's ilk ran the UK's NHS the funding would be slashed and the worst cases of abuse would get much worse because of a lack of nurses etc.

Also consider that the UK manages to run an excellent health care service for about 50% less than the US government spends propping up it's system. With the costs escalating in the US, that ratio is only going to get higher too.

Despite the worst cases jazzguru links to, including 400-1,200 needless deaths in one hospital over three years, which I don't believe for one second, UK hospitals are extremely good and have lots of ways of monitoring the quality of patient care.

Why is it that everyone that I have talked to and my own experiences with UK hospitals (better by far than an operation I had in a US hospital) are so positive? Yes mistakes happen but the US has substandard care going on all the time and that's if you even get care and it doesn't mean you loose your home and life savings in the process. One study I read said that the wrong amounts of drugs given to patients in the US is over double that of the UK.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #1031 of 2277
3/5/10 at 1:06pm
Of course if you don't like how the government runs things you're shit out of luck. In a free market if you don't like how a business runs things you can take your business elsewhere.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #1032 of 2277
3/5/10 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Of course if you don't like how the government runs things you're shit out of luck. In a free market if you don't like how a business runs things you can take your business elsewhere.

Is there a government plan to cancel the private option? You always have the option for private insurance or private care. You bet your ass you can take your business elsewhere.

If it's more of a "I don't care about poor people so i don't want to pay for their fucking healthcare through my taxes", you're right, you still gotta pay your taxes. But what if you decide you don't like the way roadworks is run? The police? The education system? National parks?

I suggest you take your business elsewhere, and move to another country where you don't have to pay any taxes... oh... I forgot... there aren't any. Well, get the fuck out of the US, anyway. Poor people in the US deserve free health care, and you have no right to stop it just because you're greedy.
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post #1033 of 2277
3/5/10 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

But what if you decide you don't like the way roadworks is run? The police? The education system? National parks?

Yes indeed, what if you do decide that? What then? Answer that question and maybe you're half to understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Poor people in the US deserve free health care, and you have no right to stop it just because you're greedy.

You and your friends are more than free to provide it to those you think deserve it. Why don't you?

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post #1034 of 2277
3/5/10 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

And if jazzguru's ilk ran the UK's NHS the funding would be slashed and the worst cases of abuse would get much worse because of a lack of nurses etc.

Also consider that the UK manages to run an excellent health care service for about 50% less than the US government spends propping up it's system. With the costs escalating in the US, that ratio is only going to get higher too.

Despite the worst cases jazzguru links to, including 400-1,200 needless deaths in one hospital over three years, which I don't believe for one second, UK hospitals are extremely good and have lots of ways of monitoring the quality of patient care.

Why is it that everyone that I have talked to and my own experiences with UK hospitals (better by far than an operation I had in a US hospital) are so positive? Yes mistakes happen but the US has substandard care going on all the time and that's if you even get care and it doesn't mean you loose your home and life savings in the process. One study I read said that the wrong amounts of drugs given to patients in the US is over double that of the UK.

One study I read somewhere said that NHS officials eat babies and use other peoples' money for toilet paper.

Seriously though, my "ilk" can beat up your "ilk".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1035 of 2277
3/5/10 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You and your friends are more than free to provide it to those you think deserve it. Why don't you?

By that reasoning, would it be OK if everyone chose whom to allow to use the roads, public libraries, museums, parks and whatnot that their tax dollars are paying for? Or to ask the military, police and fire departments to only protect certain members of our country and not others? Someone could easily write up a long list of those they deemed didn't deserve the benefits of those socialist programs, too.

The bureaucracy needed to manage such allocations would be huge.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #1036 of 2277
3/6/10 at 12:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes indeed, what if you do decide that? What then? Answer that question and maybe you're half to understanding.

What, that you hate all government and would prefer to live in a loosely regulated free-market economy?

I'd like to see one example of where that's ever worked in the world. The closest we have had to that in history, anywhere in the world, is pre-Great Depression US. And guess what? It caused the Great Depression.
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post #1037 of 2277
3/6/10 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

What, that you hate all government and would prefer to live in a loosely regulated free-market economy?

I'd like to see one example of where that's ever worked in the world. The closest we have had to that in history, anywhere in the world, is pre-Great Depression US. And guess what? It caused the Great Depression.

The founding fathers hated big, centralized government, too. They all saw it as a necessary evil, which is why the Constitution limits the power of the federal government.

Unfortunately, our federal government has long since assumed power it was never supposed to have.

The Great Depression was the result of poor government policy, not lack of regulation or government intervention.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1038 of 2277
3/8/10 at 6:32pm
One extremely vocal opponent of Obama's health care reform ideas (any of his ideas for that matter), who has trashed Canada's system, actually used to go there for treatment.

Cue Sara Palin.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...GbjvgD9EAPSFO0

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #1039 of 2277
3/8/10 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

One extremely vocal opponent of Obama's health care reform ideas (any of his ideas for that matter), who has trashed Canada's system, actually used to go there for treatment.

Cue Sara Palin.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...GbjvgD9EAPSFO0

Yes, it is quite damning, even hypocritical, that someone who was a minor child (likely 2-3 years old in the mid 1960's) in a family that used the Canadian Universal Health Care System is now a vocal opponent of it.

You know, even if she used it later in life of her own volition and choice, this does not discredit her current criticism of it. After all, she may have made a poor choice then. She might have thought, as many do now, that such a system would be the best thing and discovered differently from her experience. Either way, it is surprisingly within the realm of possibility that human experience causes people to grow and change. What someone did at one point in their life might inform their views later in life even to the point of rejecting things done in the past as mistakes or leveraging experience with things to judge those institutions and events.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1040 of 2277
3/8/10 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes, it is quite damning, even hypocritical, that someone who was a minor child (likely 2-3 years old in the mid 1960's) in a family that used the Canadian Universal Health Care System is now a vocal opponent of it.

You know, even if she used it later in life of her own volition and choice, this does not discredit her current criticism of it. After all, she may have made a poor choice then. She might have thought, as many do now, that such a system would be the best thing and discovered differently from her experience. Either way, it is surprisingly within the realm of possibility that human experience causes people to grow and change. What someone did at one point in their life might inform their views later in life even to the point of rejecting things done in the past as mistakes or leveraging experience with things to judge those institutions and events.

Or maybe it's just that her parents were, like, totally Socialists.

We'll never know either way, will we?
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