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The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality - Page 44

post #1721 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

People die in any system, but Canadians as a rule (Manitobans at least) do not get wait-listed for urgent care. If your condition is serious, you go first. That WHY the waiting lists are there, so that the people who are not in a life-threatening emergency don't clog up the system

Wait list insurance?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1722 of 2360
The Difference Between Canada and the U.S. Health Care Systems

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1723 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Wait list insurance?

American Propaganda?
post #1724 of 2360
Here's more "American Propaganda" for you. Starring Canadians, even. Enjoy.

ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1725 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Here's more "American Propaganda" for you. Starring Canadians, even. Enjoy.

ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

Steven Crowder especially.
post #1726 of 2360
Quote:


The Federal Judge's Ruling:

YOu can read the 20 page ruling @
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM11..._michigan.html

Quote:
Plaintiffs seek a declaration that Congress lacked authority under the Commerce Clause to pass the Health Care Reform Act, and alternatively a declaration that the penalty provision of the Act is an unconstitutional tax. In addition, plaintiffs allege that the Health Care Reform Act violates states rights under the Tenth Amendment, the Free Exercise Clause, and the Fifth Amendments Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses.


Quote:
CONCLUSION For the reasons given above, plaintiffs motion for preliminary injunction is DENIED and the court finds for defendants on plaintiffs first and second claims for relief; those claims are DISMISSED.
Dated: October 7, 2010
GEORGE CARAM STEEH UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #1727 of 2360
Greek Health System Opts for Amputation as Money-Saver

Quote:
This Saturday, one of Greeces most respected newspapers, To Vima, reported that the nations largest government health insurance provider would no longer pay for special footwear for diabetes patients. Amputation is cheaper, says the Benefits Division of the state insurance provider.

The new policy was announced in a letter to the Pan-Hellenic Federation of People with Diabetes. The Federation disputes the science behind the decision of the Benefits Division. In a statement, the group argues that the decision is contrary to evidence as presented in the international scientific literature.

Greeces National Healthcare System was created in the early 1980s, during the tenure of Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou. Papandreou, an academic, won election under the slogan, Αλλαγή, which is the Greek word for Change.



Quote:
Papandreou, an academic, won election under the slogan, Αλλαγή, which is the Greek word for Change.

"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme." -- Mark Twain

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1728 of 2360
Quote:

See? No death panels. Just amputation panels.
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post #1729 of 2360
Greece is wrong in doing this. We can *GASP* learn from the mistakes of others. Please tell me how for profit insurance companies (who just jacked up my rates 25% because I actually ended up using it for the first time in 4 years) are any better. They have their own panels that decide which procedures are "medically necessary" and they have driven the cost of healthcare through the roof in the process.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #1730 of 2360
So why do you want to consolidate all the power currently held by the insurance companies into one massive plan run by the government...which will continue to decide which procedures are "medically necessary" and drive healthcare costs through the roof in the process?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1731 of 2360
Too...many...false...assumptions...in...your...sta tement...overloading...oh god.....

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #1732 of 2360
Yes, reality is difficult for most "progressives" to process. Give it some time.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1733 of 2360
Can all the right wing jerkoffs who want to go live in the new wild west just go cordon off a section of montana and leave the rest of us the fuck alone? There are people in this country who would like to join the rest of the world in a civilized 21st century.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #1734 of 2360
I hear North Korea offers government-run healthcare.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1735 of 2360
I hear North Koreans BREATHE AIR! You better not do that or else you're a commy-pinko-totalitarian!

Stupid comparisons are stupid. Cut it out.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #1736 of 2360
Ooh, good point. Every time we exhale, we bring our planet one step closer to total destruction. Better let the government fix that, too.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1737 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Ooh, good point. Every time we exhale, we bring our planet one step closer to total destruction. Better let the government fix that, too.

Farting is harder on the environment. Methane is a real killer and trees won't have any of it.
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post #1738 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Farting is harder on the environment. Methane is a real killer and trees won't have any of it.

But it requires the same "solution" in both cases, yes?

Unless someone invents a F.A.R.T. - Flatulance Apparatus for Reclamation of Toots

Wait...is that one of the patents you want the government to protect?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1739 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Can all the right wing jerkoffs who want to go live in the new wild west just go cordon off a section of montana and leave the rest of us the fuck alone?

So you support the right of states to secede from the union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There are people in this country who would like to join the rest of the world in a civilized 21st century.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1740 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Can all the right wing jerkoffs who want to go live in the new wild west just go cordon off a section of montana and leave the rest of us the fuck alone? There are people in this country who would like to join the rest of the world in a civilized 21st century.

Montana is pretty nice, lets keep it and give them Southern California and Navada.
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post #1741 of 2360
Sorry, I live in SoCal. Too many liberal hippy douches here to displace.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #1742 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Can all the right wing jerkoffs who want to go live in the new wild west just go cordon off a section of montana and leave the rest of us the fuck alone? There are people in this country who would like to join the rest of the world in a civilized 21st century.

Montana? Where unemployment is at 7%?
post #1743 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Sorry, I live in SoCal. Too many liberal hippy douches here to displace.

But not much worth saving, really. What does LA have besides hollywood and the porn industry? In the coming deflationary depression/collapse food production will be a lot more important.
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post #1744 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

So why do you want to consolidate all the power currently held by the insurance companies into one massive plan run by the government...which will continue to decide which procedures are "medically necessary" and drive healthcare costs through the roof in the process?

Because places where it's done properly have better health outcomes and lower costs.
post #1745 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Because places where it's done properly have better health outcomes and lower costs.

Wrong.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1746 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Sorry, I live in SoCal. Too many liberal hippy douches here to displace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

But not much worth saving, really. What does LA have besides hollywood and the porn industry?

The first has much to do with the second.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #1747 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

But not much worth saving, really. What does LA have besides hollywood and the porn industry? In the coming deflationary depression/collapse food production will be a lot more important.

Porn income approx 4 billion/annum (Forbes magazine) some estimates as high as 14 billion.
Hollywood hard to say but estimated at ~ 300 billion/annum.
California food production - 13 billion/annum (largest in the union).
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post #1748 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Sorry, I live in SoCal. Too many liberal hippy douches here to displace.

I didn't know that mars(your location) is located in SoCal.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #1749 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

California food production - 13 billion/annum (largest in the union).

How much of that is in Southern California? The whole place looked barren to me when I was there last.

http://www.california-map.org/california-nc.gif

If we keep the central valley, that is probably 10 of the 13 billion right there.
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post #1750 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

See? No death panels. Just amputation panels.

Too funny: Death Panels for Democrats

Quote:
All I'm saying is let's take the example of something like diabetes, one of--a disease that's skyrocketing, partly because of obesity, partly because it's not treated as effectively as it could be. Right now if we paid a family--if a family care physician works with his or her patient to help them lose weight, modify diet, monitors whether they're taking their medications in a timely fashion, they might get reimbursed a pittance. But if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that's $30,000, $40,000, $50,000--immediately the surgeon is reimbursed. Well, why not make sure that we're also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation, right? That will save us money.
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post #1751 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

How much of that is in Southern California? The whole place looked barren to me when I was there last.

http://www.california-map.org/california-nc.gif

If we keep the central valley, that is probably 10 of the 13 billion right there.

Most of California's food production is in the Sacramento Central and San Joaquin Valleys and Coastal California of Salinas and Oxnard Valleys. Significant production comes from Ventura, Riverside and Imperial Counties (which are located in SoCal). The largest agricultural income based county is Humboldt County (Northern California) which is the largest Marijuana producing County.http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/12/1...-humboldt.html

Quote:
The report, conducted by Jon Gettman, a public policy analyst and former head of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, also concluded that five US states produce more than US$1 billion worth of marijuana apiece: California, Tennessee, Kentucky, Hawaii and Washington.

California's production alone was about US$13.8 billion, according to Gettman, who waged an unsuccessful six-year legal battle to force the government to remove marijuana from a list of drugs deemed to have no medical value.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=102x2661112
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #1752 of 2360
L.A. porn actor tests positive for HIV, industry reeling

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/ent/celeb/a...#ixzz12GHH6GMs

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1753 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

L.A. porn actor tests positive for HIV, industry reeling

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/ent/celeb/a...#ixzz12GHH6GMs

The porn actor should be covered even if it's a preexisting condition.---What ever happened to "safe sex--use a condom for Christ sake.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #1754 of 2360

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #1755 of 2360

IMHO he Health Care Law will probably go to the Supremes sometime late this term or next term. Any guesses whether there will be another Supremes replacement?
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #1756 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Wrong.

Not wrong, very much correct.
post #1757 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Not wrong, very much correct.

Well good, then you'll have no trouble explaining precisely why.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #1758 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Not wrong, very much correct.

At least in 36 countries the outcome is better and cost is lower.
US number 37!
US number 37!
US number 37!

For some of us who are a little "uninformed" number 37 means number 1.
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post #1759 of 2360
By Kyle Dropp
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 15, 2010; 11:27 AM

Quote:
A Florida federal judge's ruling this week that 20 states can proceed with parts of a lawsuit challenging the health-care overhaul comes as the law continues to sharply divide voters.

The latest Washington Post-ABC News shows an electorate still about evenly split on the health-care law: 46 percent of voters for it, 50 percent against. Moreover, more than three-quarters of those who oppose the changes say they support an effort to cancel the health-care reform measures.

In the days after President Obama signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) into law, it had similar support among voters - 46 percent agreed with the administration's changes, according to a Post-ABC poll taken in late March.

Support for the bill, though, dips lower among those who are most likely to turn out in November, with opposition rising to 55 percent of likely voters in the early October Post-ABC poll.

As they were in March, older Americans are skeptical of the reforms. Four in 10 adults ages 50 and up support the changes, compared with more than half of younger Americans.

In the poll, 40 percent of Americans oppose the bill and support an effort to repeal it, either by a new vote in Congress or through the courts.

That's down a slim six points from March. Today, 58 percent of overhaul opponents strongly support an effort to cancel the changes, down 13 points from March.

Republicans, who are poised to make major gains in Congress next month, have made overturning Obama's signature issue a top priority.

With the intense legislative battle over health care in the rear view mirror for now, most, but fewer, people hold strong views on the subject. Some 26 percent of those polled say they "strongly support" the changes, down six points from March. Intense opposition has also trimmed from 40 to 35 percent, with strong opposition among seniors dropping a dozen points since March.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #1760 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Meaning, 3 of 4 Dems haven't read the bill yet.

Nancy Pelosi said they had to pass it so they could see what was in it.

So you thought you could keep your existing coverage, huh?

Quote:
Beginning January 1, 2011, more than 15,000 over-the-counter (OTC) health care items will require a prescription (and that means a doctor's visit) for tax-free reimbursement.

Under Obamacare, OTC drugs cannot be reimbursed tax-free from Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) or Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs) without a government bureaucrat-required permission slip.

As of May 2010, approximately 10 million people were covered under HSA plans for their family's health care needs. The non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation estimates this provision of Obamacare will cost families $5 billion.



The cost of Obamacare keeps growing and growing.

Obamacare Sticker Shock: Taxing Over 15,000 Medicines
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