The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality - Page 52

A few points, first why a new account?

Social Security, Medicare, etc are all welfare programs. People don't want to admit that but they are welfare programs. The second point is that you are not compelled to use them. It is completely possibly not to receive Social Security. It has requirements for participation and if you don't participate, you don't get it.

How you become eligible for Social Security

As you work and pay taxes, you earn Social Security credits. In 2012, you earn one credit for each $1,130 in earningsup to a maximum of four credits per year. (The amount of money needed to earn one credit usually goes up every year.)

Most people need 40 credits (10 years of work) to qualify for benefits. Younger people need fewer credits to be eligible for disability benefits or for family members to be eligible for survivors benefits when the worker dies.

As for the conservative options and have you label them, the key point is COMPEL. If Obamacare were Social Security the federal government would mandate you pay enough money into a 401k each year to earn your credits, whether you are working or not and if you didn't, you would be fined and the fine would be via a tax that would fund Social Security. That is very different from the current model as you should be able to see.


The conservative alternatives never require someone to purchase something. Never. They forgo taxing an activity when a person takes action for themselves. That is very different. In fact it is the opposite of Obamacare. Conservatives are also willing to let people live with their choices and outside of the one size fits all government solution which actually doesn't add up and isn't sustainable in any form of fashion to boot.


Well you see the key point of getting to the flip side of the welfare and income tranfer arguments which is when the numbers don't add up, the government must become authoritarian to make them add up.

First most people do need medical care, but if not for the convoluted system of private/public that is leading to all sorts of problem, most would not need health insurance or could easily purchase it in an affordable way for catastrophic events. Your car insurance doesn't cover oil changes, paint touch ups, waxing, washing, and checking the tire pressure. Likewise if you have a gap in your auto insurance or forgo full insurance and end up without a vehicle, the government doesn't feel the need to pick up the slack for you.

The Supreme Court arguments make it quite clear this is about income transfers from young to old. Young people forgo expensive health insurance plans or health insurance completely because they seldom have need for it. A plan that covers catastrophic events isn't expensive. However the government doesn't want them to purchase a plan that covers the the obscure chance a 22 year old gets cancer. They want them to purchase health PLANS and then transfer the monies to the elderly to help pay for Medicare which is going bankrupt very quickly.


You also teach music in San Diego or something. Oh wait, that was what he thought he knew about me.


First no one is arguing that the states do not have the enumerated powers to address health concerns or health insurance. The federal government is given the power to tax and clearly the power to use military force within the Constitution. The states are suing because the federal government is usurping their role. Now the federal government does this in many areas but they basically purchase compliance with monies. So in giving grants or matching funds, etc, they get most states to buy into federal programs but they cannot mandate participation or mandate individuals take certain actions to fulfill some aspect of making the federal program work.

Do school often offer free lunch and breakfast programs? Yes. Did most of the impetus for this come from the federal government? Yes, they were upset about how thin and undernourished their draftees were coming into training camp. Does the federal government MANDATE the states offer free and reduced lunch? NO. The states often take it because it's a good intention, and their cost is reduced by partnering with the federal government. However they can forgo participation and the monies associated with participation.

If the free lunch program were Obamacare the argument would look like this.

At some point, the federal government will need to defend the country. As part of defending the country it will need troops. Because it will need troops we need to make sure those troops are healthy. Because those troops must be healthy, we must mandate all children eat a healthy breakfast and lunch and if they cannot present proof of a healthy breakfast and lunch then they will be provided one and fined for not complying.

As you can see that is much more than what the present programs do. They literally would be mandating you buy certain veggies. Your participation would be mandatory.

We don't have to tell it to the slaves. Super-majorities amended the Constitution. It wasn't a living, breathing document. It was amended outright.


Ghost of Brussell would have been better.


There's a key point here is that the exceptions. The exceptions for these groups allow them to forgo government services and thus not contribute to them. However they weren't compelled to take the services. They say, we don't want Social Security, we will handle our own old age issues as a community and the government lets them.

This is different again. The government here is declaring you will have a need for modern health care and thus most be compelled to fund it at the federal level in the manner they dictate. There is no choice about entering the marketplace.


The exception never proves the rule. We aren't talking about something put forward by a think tank or a congressional rep. We are talking about the law of the land and if something is Constitutional.


Waxing your car isn't mitigating risk. There is a very large difference between health insurance and health plans.


Insurance is not the same thing as a health plan. You can get health care without insurance. You can get catastrophic insurance at minimal cost and decide to manage your health rather than paying whatever rate or tax/fine the government dictates you must. This is what the court is reviewing because much like they are running out of people to tax for spending, they are running out of health to transfer as well. The federal government cannot fund Medicare if young people opt for plans that merely cover their risk of early catastrophic health conditions. They need to demand they purchase health plans that cover all the goodies they want to offer to seniors and then hope they are too busy living life, and running around to use the services. It's a pretty desperate last ditch attempt and that is why the court is so easily tearing into it.

We it's more moral, upright and better than waiting to die from a bullet at the hands of the collectivists who need to break a few more eggs to make their promised utopia work. The idea is never the problem. It's just those non-believers who root against everything so end them and then you've ended the problem. They clearly are evil, not that you believe in such a concept, to be rooting against millions so the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and you just kill a few to help those millions. Completely scientific and thus moral to you. It's just culling the herd and we all know how concerned you are about the herd.


You mean that nice era in the 50's when Jim Crow existed and women knew their place? Is that the system that made America great until recently?


Really you are attempting to talk about a conflict of interest and not even mentioning Kagan? Serioiusly I expected better of you.


But they're conservatives or white males, or non-imaginary sons and daughters of Obama so who cares if they die? You've got to break a few eggs to make a utopian omelet! There's more crony capitalism to dole out and more people and positions to buy and bribe if we are going to arrive at our workers paradise.