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The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality - Page 56

post #2201 of 2360

Maybe the docs should start where it matters.

 

Thought experiment:

 

...You have stomach problems, you go to the doc and get an MRI. You go in for the results. The doc comes into the stereotypical waiting room, and very gravely tells you that you have stomach cancer.

 

**BUT**

 

...he then tells you that if you go on a diet, lose 50 pounds, eat 1700 calories a day, and exercise, you'll pretty much neutralize the cancer to the level of, say "occasional acid reflux."

 

 

Substitute any other fatal disease -- WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULDN'T JUMP AT THE CHANCE!!?

 

But for diabetes, hypertension, etc., NO ONE cares. Diet and exercise should be prescribeable and enforceable --- and anyone who doesn't follow their "prescription" should be considered going AMA, and have their insurance revoked.

 

But the attitude is "Hey, f--- it, insurance will cover it, I'll just take pills."

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #2202 of 2360

And if they can't afford the treatments after losing their insurance, **** 'em!  Let 'em die!  They deserve it!  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #2203 of 2360

Nice, BR, don't address the point, just make an idiotic, out-of-context comment. If you aren't capable of dealing with the issues as they exist in a country where:

 

 

 

Quote:
...United States has the highest rate of obesity. From 13% obesity in 1962, estimates have steadily increased, reaching 19.4% in 1997, 24.5% in 2004 26.6% in 2007, and 33.8% (adults) and 17% (children) in 2008. In 2010, the CDC reported higher numbers once more, counting 35.7% of American adults as obese, and 17% of American children.

 

 

...maybe you need to find something else to "comment" on. Do the math -- unless that's too much to ask -- chronic conditions are ruining our healthcare system, and those conditions could be reduced to nearly nothing with diet and exercise.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #2204 of 2360

Obesity in Massachusetts, and related health costs, could rise dramatically, report finds:

 

 

 

Quote:
By 2030, Massachusetts could save roughly $14 billion in cumulative obesity-related health care costs, the report estimates, if the state were more aggressive in its anti-obesity programs.
 
It suggests that all states could prevent many obesity-related diseases, and significantly reduce related health care costs, if they helped residents reduce their body mass index, which is a calculation that uses height and weight to estimate a person’s body fat. An average of 5 percent reduction in body mass index, or BMI as it is commonly known, among adults in Massachusetts could potentially reduce obesity-related health care costs by about $5 billion by 2020, the report said.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2205 of 2360

The person who said "under my plan, no family making less that $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase" will soon be taxing a bunch of those people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2206 of 2360

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2207 of 2360

For anyone who doubts that the Democrats' health care overhaul is really about social engineering: 

Obama says that free contraceptives were "why we passed" Obamacare.

 

Straight from the horse's mouth.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #2208 of 2360

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2209 of 2360

Well...  My wife is in home health as a physical therapist (anyone else ever notice if you break that word apart you get The Rapist).  She works for a company that gets business from dozens of small home health management companies.  She has been told that with the way things are going right now our area is probably going to lose the vast majority of these small companies with only a handful surviving out of the 30+ that she currently does work for.

 

Additionally, recent changes to Medicare to control costs have dramatically increased her level of frustration, and had her contemplating a career change.  Medicare now requires that a licensed Physical Therapist perform a reassessment on the 13th and 19th visits.  This means that Medicare is now paying the bill for more frequent visits by more costly PTs when before the Assistant PTs were doing these visits.  These are visits during the course of a normal therapy plan, and really don't ever result in such a dramatic change in prognosis that the therapy plan is cut short.

 

Finally, the Medicare cuts have already resulted in a noticeable increase in denials of therapy visits and requests.  To make this even worse, the company my wife works for is being pressured by the home health agencies to reduce their therapist pay rates due to the proposed reduction in Medicare reimbursement.  This is all bad news for the medical profession.

post #2210 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

Additionally, recent changes to Medicare to control costs have dramatically increased her level of frustration, and had her contemplating a career change.

 

That right there is the hidden land mine. It won't just be people like your wife but others as well, nurses, doctors...people deciding to get out of the profession in one way or another (e.g., retiring early, etc.)

 

So then what will we have?

 

1) Decreasing supply of health care service providers, and

2) Increasing demand for health care services because, well, it's "free" so I'm going to use it

 

That sounds like a recipe for disaster (or at least rising costs...either monetary or in other ways) to me.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2211 of 2360

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2212 of 2360

Good, I know not to eat at Wendy's.  It hasn't gone well for other restaurant chains who have decided to be dicks about healthcare.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #2213 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Good, I know not to eat at Wendy's.

 

I think you should do that. In fact I think you should get all of your friends together and all boycott all businesses that conform to economic reality. The best part is that if there are a lot of you (which I assume you think there are) you might succeed in driving businesses like Wendy's out of business. So that will be good for those employees too.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2214 of 2360

 Papa John's caved to public pressure.  Corporate should punish or revoke Wendy's franchises that damage the brand by making these decisions.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2215 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

 Papa John's caved to public pressure.

 

How did they do that?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Corporate should punish or revoke Wendy's franchises that damage the brand by making these decisions.

 

Yes, we know you're a big fan of punishing those who don't do what you want.

 

 

P.S. I agree that, from a PR perspective, I would not have made this big news. I suspect 99% of companies won't either.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2216 of 2360
You completely ignore the real problem. Without a legal requirement, because of insane cost of service, the US medical system has a de facto requirement for everyone to have insurance. Companies used to offer every full time employee insurance. My first summer job out of high school was for Carl's Junior, and even that right wing **** Carl Karcher offered me, just turned 18 years old, pretty decent insurance.

That didn't stop Carl from making a profit. Offering insurance was simply the right thing to do.

Companies rarely do the right thing any more. If they can save 5¢ per burger or 20¢ per pizza, they're perfectly happy these days to **** their employees by cutting benefits as much as is legally possible.

Because of the necessity of insurance, and the utter lack of moral responsibility on the part of employers, government has now been forced to make a mandate.

Live with it and pay your fucking 5¢ more per burger, knowing that it's the right thing to do anyway.
post #2217 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Corporate should punish or revoke Wendy's franchises that damage the brand by making these decisions.

 

When you punish or revoke the franchisees that can actually do math, you won't have much of a business left for Obama to over-tax.

 

It is funny though, that you demonize the GOP for 'trickle down economics' by advocating giving money to poorer people who will spend it all on consumption. And then you support a tax plan that throws those very same people out of work.

 

If liberal ideas didn't have such nasty consequences, they would be extremely funny.


Edited by Frank777 - 1/10/13 at 4:44pm
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #2218 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Companies used to offer every full time employee insurance...

Offering insurance was simply the right thing to do...

Companies rarely do the right thing any more...

...and the utter lack of moral responsibility on the part of employers...

 

Perhaps you could expand on why you believe it's an employer's job to provide health care coverage to workers.

Should they be obligated to provide food as well?

 

One of the biggest problems in the U.S. is employer-provided health insurance.

It hurts employment portability and hinders the economy from growing.

People don't spend 50 years working at the same job anymore. That's never coming back.

 

Your liberal need for free lunches is blinding you to one of the country's biggest health care problems:

 

Inability to move to a better job or new living experience because you will lose your health care.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #2219 of 2360
Oh, gee, I guess if you mandate employer provided health care and you're worried about portability, one solution might be to limit denial due to Pre-existing conditions. Wonder if anyone thought of that.

You change jobs, you get insurance at the new job. Problem solved.
post #2220 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

When you punish or revoke the franchisees that can actually do math, you won't have much of a business left for Obama to over-tax.

 

It is funny though, that you demonize the GOP for 'trickle down economics' by advocating giving money to poorer people who will spend it all on consumption. And then you support a tax plan that throws those very same people out of work.

 

If liberal ideas didn't have such nasty consequences, they would be extremely funny.

 

It is really quite fascinating the ignorance of some basic economics and the outright denial of reality that goes here isn't it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2221 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

One of the biggest problems in the U.S. is employer-provided health insurance.

It hurts employment portability and hinders the economy from growing.

 

Bingo. Health insurance and employment should be separated.

 

(Cue: "Yes, see, it should be single-payer government system. Duh." said in such a smug, self-assured manner to suggest that this is obviously the other other option.)

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2222 of 2360
Preempting it derisively doesn't change reality--single payer IS the way to go.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2223 of 2360
Preempting it derisively doesn't change reality--single payer IS the way to go. This is so important that I had to say it twice.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2224 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Preempting it derisively doesn't change reality

 

You are absolutely correct.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

single payer IS the way to go.

 

It is good of you to share your opinion. Though most of us knew what your opinion would be on this.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

This is so important that I had to say it twice.

 

And, indeed, repetition does not make something more true.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2225 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You change jobs, you get insurance at the new job. Problem solved.

 

Wow. You're really not getting this, are you. Please explain why it is the employer's responsibility to provide health insurance.

 

Should employers be compelled by the government to provide food and shelter as well?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #2226 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It is good of you to share your opinion. 

This really is such a shit response.  You might as well roll your eyes and say talk to the hand.  It's fucking rude, really.  Funny that SDW has caught on and now says the same goddamn thing.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2227 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

This really is such a shit response.  You might as well roll your eyes and say talk to the hand.  It's fucking rude, really.

 

I am not surprised that calmly and politely pointing out that you have shared an opinion would be met, by you, with a profane and bitter response.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2228 of 2360

Calmly and politely my ass.  "Thanks for sharing your opinion" is slathered with sarcasm and you fucking know it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2229 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Calmly and politely my ass.  "Thanks for sharing your opinion" is slathered with sarcasm and you fucking know it.

 

Whatever.

 

I must say this little derailment has been delightful.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2230 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Whatever.

 

I must say this little derailment has been delightful.

 

I see what you did there.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2231 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I see what you did there.

 

Did you now? 1rolleyes.gif

 

Will you be returning to the topic of Obama health care "reform" and reality soon?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2232 of 2360

Sure, this thread is almost as fun as the Mitt Romney Will Win thread.  At least you cut the pretense and were openly rude with the eyeroll rather than pretending to hide behind "calm and polite" words that drip with sarcasm.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2233 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Sure, this thread is almost as fun as the Mitt Romney Will Win thread.

 

Is it now?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

At least you cut the pretense and were openly rude with the eyeroll rather than pretending to hide behind "calm and polite" words that drip with sarcasm.

 

Will you be returning to the topic any time soon or will your obsession with me prevail?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2234 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You change jobs, you get insurance at the new job. Problem solved.

Wow. You're really not getting this, are you. Please explain why it is the employer's responsibility to provide health insurance.

Should employers be compelled by the government to provide food and shelter as well?
Three words. Economies. Of. Scale.
Two more. Group. Discount.

No one earning minimum wage can afford any reasonable healthcare coverage, insurance or otherwise. An employer like Wendy's, however, can purchase 10,000 policies at a fraction of the price it would cost an individual. It's the right thing to do.
post #2235 of 2360

That's ridiculous. By that logic, your employer should buy everything for you.

 

A clear, open, internet-enabled U.S. medical insurance sales system will do more for cost and access that insisting on tweaking a failed system that has been getting worse ever since the government started pushing people towards reliance on their employers decades ago.

 

Handcuffing people to their employers for their health care is bad policy and hurts labour mobility rates across the country.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #2236 of 2360
No, the only thing that can fix the system is recognizing what's going on with the lobbying system as bribery and extortion of our elected officials. Kill the lobby and you kill the extortionate pricing.
post #2237 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Three words. Economies. Of. Scale.
Two more. Group. Discount..

Single payer gives you significantly greater levels on. All. Five. Of. Those. Words.
post #2238 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, the only thing that can fix the system is recognizing what's going on with the lobbying system as bribery and extortion of our elected officials. Kill the lobby and you kill the extortionate pricing.

Thankfully, Obama has evicted the lobbyists from Washington like he promised. Oh, wait...

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #2239 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Three words. Economies. Of. Scale.
Two more. Group. Discount..

Single payer gives you significantly greater levels on. All. Five. Of. Those. Words.
Agree 100%.
post #2240 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, the only thing that can fix the system is recognizing what's going on with the lobbying system as bribery and extortion of our elected officials. Kill the lobby and you kill the extortionate pricing.

Thankfully, Obama has evicted the lobbyists from Washington like he promised. Oh, wait...
Do you have a point?
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