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The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality - Page 59

post #2321 of 2360

"The Deloitte Center for Health Solutions surveyed 14,000 people in six countries, asking them to grade their own healthcare system from A to F. The standardized results allow comparisons among all six countries.

 

Canada A or B: 46 percent; D or F: 15 percent; spending per person: $3,895

 

FranceA or B: 63 percent; D or F: 12 percent; spending: $3,601

 

GermanyA or B: 18 percent; D or F: 44 percent; spending: $3,588

 

SwitzerlandA or B: 66 percent; D or F: 14 percent; spending: $4,417

 

United Kingdom: A or B: 32 percent; D or F: 20 percent; spending: $2,992

 

United StatesA or B: 22 percent; D or F: 38 percent; spending: $7,290"

~ http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/09/15/4-countries-with-better-healthcare-than-ours-

 

Keep in mind that the cost per person in the US includes 46 million people with no health insurance, and another 100 million or so, with inadequate coverage, ie they can't get their insurance to pay for treatments. If those procedures were carried out too, the cost per person would be dramatically higher than it already is.


Edited by Hands Sandon - 10/18/13 at 5:48pm
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post #2322 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post
 

"The Deloitte Center for Health Solutions surveyed 14,000 people in six countries, asking them to grade their own healthcare system from A to F. The standardized results allow comparisons among all six countries.

 

Canada A or B: 46 percent; D or F: 15 percent; spending per person: $3,895

 

FranceA or B: 63 percent; D or F: 12 percent; spending: $3,601

 

GermanyA or B: 18 percent; D or F: 44 percent; spending: $3,588

 

SwitzerlandA or B: 66 percent; D or F: 14 percent; spending: $4,417

 

United Kingdom: A or B: 32 percent; D or F: 20 percent; spending: $2,992

 

United StatesA or B: 22 percent; D or F: 38 percent; spending: $7,290"

~ http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/09/15/4-countries-with-better-healthcare-than-ours-

 

Keep in mind that the cost per person in the US includes 46 million people with no health insurance, and another 100 million or so, with inadequate coverage, ie they can't get their insurance to pay for treatments. If those procedures were carried out too, the cost per person would be dramatically higher than it already is.

If we are using opinion surveys now what do they tell us about ObamaCare?

post #2323 of 2360
Having forced coverage and MORE government involvement is a sure fire recipe for disaster. I predict fewer dollars flowing into risky breakthrough cures and automation and artificial intelligence provided by Google, Microsoft, Apple for performing basic diagnostics due to the massive shortage of qualified physicians relative to the tsunami of Boomer generation aged and infirm that is just starting to hit.
Edited by SpamSandwich - 10/21/13 at 2:23pm

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post #2324 of 2360

ObamaCare is a mess, but at least people on Twitter are having fun with it.

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post #2325 of 2360

Open Enrollment is coming. I should stock up on Crisco and limber up to grab my ankles. THANK YOU SIR MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!

post #2326 of 2360

NYT tries to spin it but the comments from ulta-libral NYT readers puts truth to the lie

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/01/business/when-insurers-drop-policies-three-stories.html?_r=0


Edited by FloorJack - 11/1/13 at 8:16pm
post #2327 of 2360

Am I an evil person for taking great delight in reading about all of these Obamatrons, including people with cancer etc., losing their insurance? :lol:

 

Well, it's about time that they paid their fair share! Mic check!:lol: Power to the people! :D

 

Good job Mr. President! Keep 'em coming! I am turning into a huge Obama supporter lately, and don't you dare disagree with me, otherwise I will have to assume that you're a racist.:smokey:

post #2328 of 2360
Funny, the "conservatives will have egg on their faces" crowd has gone silent. The Emperor's nakedness is now apparent to all, even liberals. Obama's lie is so blatant and obvious that anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows it was deliberate.

What I've been wondering is whether or not this is all intentional. Obama is on record as supporting universal socialized medicine. I've long believed that this program was nothing more than a back door to single payer healthcare. Harry Reid essentially said that a few months back. What I can't determine is whether Obama and his Union of Democratic Socialists thought it would happen this fast. To me, the plan was to have his thing "fail" over a period of say, 10-15 years. I thought it would be because insurance companies exited the healthcare market due to onerous regulation and imposed cost. But now I wonder if the plan is far more radical. Could it be that they intended for the rollout to be a disaster? Could it be that they WANT millions of people to scream bloody murder about losing their plans, all so Obama can "fix" it with a single payer system? I'm split on it. I'm leaning more towards total incompetence, arrogance and him being lying piece of shit to get a bill passed.

Anyone?
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post #2329 of 2360

I love how the liberals here have gone into total hiding, especially on this issue.   I need to take a moment to gloat.  WE TOLD YOU SO.  In fact, this is worse than most of us predicted.  

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post #2330 of 2360

Wut?

 

1) If you're referring to the NYT article posted two weeks ago, it's way more nuanced than you're suggesting. Some people are getting better deals.

 

2)  The way you'd like to go back to just doesn't work and makes the US a laughing stock: http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/21/5129166/us-lagging-in-life-expectancy-despite-spending-most-on-health

post #2331 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald II View Post
 

Wut?

 

1) If you're referring to the NYT article posted two weeks ago, it's way more nuanced than you're suggesting. Some people are getting better deals.

 

2)  The way you'd like to go back to just doesn't work and makes the US a laughing stock: http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/21/5129166/us-lagging-in-life-expectancy-despite-spending-most-on-health

 

I'm sure if there were really a large number of people getting better deals, the Obama-friendly media would be more than willing to publicize and talk it up. They've already been doing it with the sub-par economic "growth" the U.S. economy has been undergoing. They chat every little bit of positivity as much as possible.

 

The link also mentions big contributing factors from higher than average caloric consumption and higher than average consumption of illegal and prescription drugs. Money can't fix morality. Just ask any rock star who died early if the real issue was delivery of health care to them. Bad choices have bad outcomes and if anything, the U.S. system has shown that massive increases in health care can't change that fact.

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post #2332 of 2360

It would seem to any dispassionate observer that —

 

the incredibly widespread lack of any insurance cover whatsoever and

—the mechanisms returning huge profits to insurance companies rather than health outcomes

 

would be why your healthcare system is so dysfunctional.

 

There are a lot more poor grannies and disabled ex-servicemen than rockstars.

post #2333 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
 

I love how the liberals here have gone into total hiding, especially on this issue.   I need to take a moment to gloat.  WE TOLD YOU SO.  In fact, this is worse than most of us predicted.  

 

There are liberals, and "liberals". It's the "liberals" who support ObamaCare - these are people who will vote democrat because family (etc) tradition dictates it, regardless of whether such a vote is in their interest. ObamaCare is no more liberal than a ménage a trois between Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter. Our allegedly "liberal" president could have promoted a healthcare program along the lines of other industrialized nations, and gotten the necessary input to craft it from scientific, medical, nursing etc. professionals and experts from within the support industries. Not a bit of it - Obama the "liberal" shut all these groups out of the discussion and enlisted the uber-rightwing Heritage Foundation - alongside input from big pharmaceutical corporations and the insurance industry. ObamaCare is a rightwing product, but because so many democrats still have their heads in the sand and equate "democrat" with "liberal" -  this rotting hairball of legislative effluent somehow made it onto the books. Meanwhile, conservatives, in need of a bete noir - pushed the blame on Obama by equating his administration with "liberalism"... which is clearly a farce.

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post #2334 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald II View Post
 

It would seem to any dispassionate observer that —

 

the incredibly widespread lack of any insurance cover whatsoever and

—the mechanisms returning huge profits to insurance companies rather than health outcomes

 

would be why your healthcare system is so dysfunctional.

 

There are a lot more poor grannies and disabled ex-servicemen than rockstars.

 

I'm pretty sure most disppasionate observers would note that

 

-mandating that everyone purchase the mechanism returning huge profits to insurance companies rather than health outcomes

 

Would improve cost and service how exactly?

 

Poor grannies are covered by Medicare. Disabilied ex-servicemen are covered by VA hospitals and services.

 

You really need to try harder.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #2335 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald II View Post
 

It would seem to any dispassionate observer that —

 

the incredibly widespread lack of any insurance cover whatsoever and

—the mechanisms returning huge profits to insurance companies rather than health outcomes

 

would be why your healthcare system is so dysfunctional.

 

There are a lot more poor grannies and disabled ex-servicemen than rockstars.

 

1) 85% of Americans had health insurance before this debacle.  That's hardly "widepsread."  And, among those without insurance, there were millions who either didn't want or didn't need it.   People who were quite poor qualified for Medicaid in most cases.  The very rich could afford not to carry health coverage or only minimal coverage.  That's why the number "48 million" is so misleading when it comes to "people without insurance."  The number is more like 20 million.  

 

2) This is exactly what conservatives have been saying about Obamacare.   The Obama administration got into bed with the insurance companies and made the problem much worse, not better.   If you're concerned about massive profits and spiking rates, then you should support free market solutions (interstate portability, tort reform, increased competition for consumers) coupled with subsidies for people that are high risk and or not of means to purchase.  

 

3) See #2.  Obamacare doesn't work because it relies on the young and healthy to subsidize the old and sick.  The problem is that the young and healthy would rather pay the fine than pay $8,000 a year with a $5,000 deductible for health care.  This is why it would have been better to simply offer a fix for certain pre-existing conditions while creating a new public high risk pool funded by general tax revenue.  

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post #2336 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post
 

 

There are liberals, and "liberals". It's the "liberals" who support ObamaCare - these are people who will vote democrat because family (etc) tradition dictates it, regardless of whether such a vote is in their interest. ObamaCare is no more liberal than a ménage a trois between Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter. Our allegedly "liberal" president could have promoted a healthcare program along the lines of other industrialized nations, and gotten the necessary input to craft it from scientific, medical, nursing etc. professionals and experts from within the support industries. Not a bit of it - Obama the "liberal" shut all these groups out of the discussion and enlisted the uber-rightwing Heritage Foundation - alongside input from big pharmaceutical corporations and the insurance industry. ObamaCare is a rightwing product, but because so many democrats still have their heads in the sand and equate "democrat" with "liberal" -  this rotting hairball of legislative effluent somehow made it onto the books. Meanwhile, conservatives, in need of a bete noir - pushed the blame on Obama by equating his administration with "liberalism"... which is clearly a farce.

 

I don't disagree with most of that, actually.  I really just meant from most liberals on the board, who seem to support Democrats without question.  You're not among that group, of course.   I do disagree that Obamacare is "right wing."   I understand some of its components have been supported by Republicans in the past--namely the individual mandate.  But, the program is much more than that.  

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post #2337 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't disagree with most of that, actually.  I really just meant from most liberals on the board, who seem to support Democrats without question.  You're not among that group, of course.   I do disagree that Obamacare is "right wing."   I understand some of its components have been supported by Republicans in the past--namely the individual mandate.  But, the program is much more than that.  

You're both incorrect. Obamacare is a result of corporatism.

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post #2338 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


You're both incorrect. Obamacare is a result of corporatism.

 

That statement doesn't invalidate the other two perspectives.

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post #2339 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


You're both incorrect. Obamacare is a result of corporatism.

 

I don't see why you need to be adversarial about it.  I also don't think anything sammi or I posted indicates corporatism wasn't at play.  If I did indicate that, then it wasn't my intention.  Obviously corporatism played a major role.  But, so did the raw pursuit of control and political power, a leftist-progressive mentality, and total buffoonery with regard to understanding economics.  

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post #2340 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't disagree with most of that, actually.  I really just meant from most liberals on the board, who seem to support Democrats without question.  You're not among that group, of course.   I do disagree that Obamacare is "right wing."   I understand some of its components have been supported by Republicans in the past--namely the individual mandate.  But, the program is much more than that.  

You're both incorrect. Obamacare is a result of corporatism.

 

I'm going to ask you to elaborate. The term is so broad in this instance as to be useless for shaping discussion.

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post #2341 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
 

 

I don't see why you need to be adversarial about it.  I also don't think anything sammi or I posted indicates corporatism wasn't at play.  If I did indicate that, then it wasn't my intention.  Obviously corporatism played a major role.  But, so did the raw pursuit of control and political power, a leftist-progressive mentality, and total buffoonery with regard to understanding economics.  

 

What are your thoughts on the MA plan aka RomneyCare? This legislation was based on the individual mandate, and was also drafted  by the same think tank - the Heritage Foundation - that put together ObamaCare - and consequently has many similarities to ObamaCare.  I imagine there must have been a lot of debate about that plan, not just in MA, but all around neighboring states on the East Coast. What was the general reaction amongst conservatives - and liberals for that matter, to RomneyCare? Was it received with the same (deserved) degree of hostility as ObamaCare?

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post #2342 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post
 

 

What are your thoughts on the MA plan aka RomneyCare? This legislation was based on the individual mandate, and was also drafted  by the same think tank - the Heritage Foundation - that put together ObamaCare - and consequently has many similarities to ObamaCare.  I imagine there must have been a lot of debate about that plan, not just in MA, but all around neighboring states on the East Coast. What was the general reaction amongst conservatives - and liberals for that matter, to RomneyCare? Was it received with the same (deserved) degree of hostility as ObamaCare?

 

So the Heritage Foundation "put together ObamaCare" now?

 

 

Like I posted before if ObamaCare were only and individual mandate you might have half a point. But it's much more than that. From increasing the MediCare - MediCaid roles (it's free because the feds are paying for it (for now)); huge taxes on makers of life saving devices, "cadillac" health care plans; regulation of plan benefits that's causing people to be dropped; incentives for employers to drop coverage and toss employees on to the exchanges; "meaningful use" (not a part of ACA but look it up) ; where to end?

 

Edit to add

 

I completely forgot about the accounting fraud that made ObamaCare look revenue neutral when really it was double counting savings while defunding medicare/medicaid.


Edited by FloorJack - 12/1/13 at 9:39am
post #2343 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

What are your thoughts on the MA plan aka RomneyCare? This legislation was based on the individual mandate, and was also drafted  by the same think tank - the Heritage Foundation - that put together ObamaCare - and consequently has many similarities to ObamaCare.  I imagine there must have been a lot of debate about that plan, not just in MA, but all around neighboring states on the East Coast. What was the general reaction amongst conservatives - and liberals for that matter, to RomneyCare? Was it received with the same (deserved) degree of hostility as ObamaCare?

First of all, there is a huge difference because "Romneycare" was a state-driven program. Although I disagree with government-run anything, if voters are so foolish to vote for such a thing, it's acceptable. On the other hand, there is no allowance at the federal level to implement health care programs. The Constitution does not allow such a thing, which is the reason Justice Roberts said it could only work as a tax, which it clearly was NOT designed to be. A complete corruption of the system to buy off the senior and Boomer vote.

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post #2344 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post
 

 

What are your thoughts on the MA plan aka RomneyCare? This legislation was based on the individual mandate, and was also drafted  by the same think tank - the Heritage Foundation - that put together ObamaCare - and consequently has many similarities to ObamaCare.  I imagine there must have been a lot of debate about that plan, not just in MA, but all around neighboring states on the East Coast. What was the general reaction amongst conservatives - and liberals for that matter, to RomneyCare? Was it received with the same (deserved) degree of hostility as ObamaCare?

 

It is incorrect to suggest that Romneycare and Obamacare are the same plan, drafted by the Heritage Foundation.  It is true that the Heritage Foundation proposed the mandate, but that is about where the similarities end.  As for the conservative reaction, it's hard to judge...because while Romney was a Republican governor, the GOP in MA isn't exactly conservative.  I don't recall the nationwide reaction (from my perspective) being very positive.  Many conservatives refused to support Romney based on his stance on healthcare, and his inability to distinguish it from Obamacare (I think he could have).  The other point is that it was a state plan passed with bipartisan support, and did not contain tax increases, didn't kick people off plans, and wasn't an unmitigated disaster from day 1.   

 

I myself understand the reasoning behind mandates, and understand why some would consider them a "conservative" solution.  I still prefer not to have them.  I think the best way to deal with healthcare is to improve competition and efficiency (interstate sales), reduce lawsuits (tort reform), address pre-existing conditions (high risk public pool) and expand Medicaid for those who cannot afford insurance.   

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post #2345 of 2360
Thread Starter 

NYTimes.com

 

This reasoning by Michael Moore is completely insane.

 

The ACA was crafted and passed exclusively by Democrats with massive majorities in both the House and Senate. However the reason it is terrible per Michael Moore is as follows.

1. It can't be criticized for fear of abating the president's enemies aka Republicans.
2. Republicans tried to expose that President Obama really wanted aka single payer.
3. Obamacare originated out of Heritage Foundation but this forced the Democratic House, Senate and Democratic President to pass it as it is now.

Does this not sound like insane reasoning to everyone else? Why would anyone ever elect a Democrat to office? When you give them majorities, massive majorities apparently they will act out of fear of criticism, hide their agenda and pass the "enemies" agenda anyway, and finally even when they do take office after a Republican as is the case in Massachusetts, they still aren't responsible nor do they ever fix the problem.

Is there ever a time a Democrat is responsible for their own actions and the outcomes from them? Are we doomed to live in a world where the claimed smartest and most empathetic people continually take bad actions and have bad outcomes due to fear of criticism, fear of exposure and they are duped even while being so smart into passing terrible legislation.

 

Elect a Democrat and you will get a terrible outcome because you can't criticize them because Republicans exist. They won't act on their own plan out of fear Republicans will... expose the really great and best plan out there. Finally they will pass the Democratic plan anyway because.....well because it exists apparently.

 

Democrats can't do their job right, even with majorities while "enemies" of the President and party exist. It sounds like Moore is declaring that we will get horrible results until Republicans are purged and until then,  a Democrat is never responsible for their own actions. It is nuts.

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post #2346 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post
 

NYTimes.com

 

This reasoning by Michael Moore is completely insane.

 

The ACA was crafted and passed exclusively by Democrats with massive majorities in both the House and Senate. However the reason it is terrible per Michael Moore is as follows.

1. It can't be criticized for fear of abating the president's enemies aka Republicans.
2. Republicans tried to expose that President Obama really wanted aka single payer.
3. Obamacare originated out of Heritage Foundation but this forced the Democratic House, Senate and Democratic President to pass it as it is now.

Does this not sound like insane reasoning to everyone else? Why would anyone ever elect a Democrat to office? When you give them majorities, massive majorities apparently they will act out of fear of criticism, hide their agenda and pass the "enemies" agenda anyway, and finally even when they do take office after a Republican as is the case in Massachusetts, they still aren't responsible nor do they ever fix the problem.

Is there ever a time a Democrat is responsible for their own actions and the outcomes from them? Are we doomed to live in a world where the claimed smartest and most empathetic people continually take bad actions and have bad outcomes due to fear of criticism, fear of exposure and they are duped even while being so smart into passing terrible legislation.

 

Elect a Democrat and you will get a terrible outcome because you can't criticize them because Republicans exist. They won't act on their own plan out of fear Republicans will... expose the really great and best plan out there. Finally they will pass the Democratic plan anyway because.....well because it exists apparently.

 

Democrats can't do their job right, even with majorities while "enemies" of the President and party exist. It sounds like Moore is declaring that we will get horrible results until Republicans are purged and until then,  a Democrat is never responsible for their own actions. It is nuts.

 

Nuts is putting it lightly.

 

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post #2347 of 2360

Moore sounds like one of those tea bagger racists that pointed all that out BEFORE the bill was voted into law. Slow off the bench there Moore.

post #2348 of 2360

U.S. intelligence agencies last week urged the Obama administration to check its new healthcare network for malicious software after learning that developers linked to the Belarus government helped produce the website, raising fresh concerns that private data posted by millions of Americans will be compromised.

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post #2349 of 2360

The White House releases an official statement saying that ObamaCare will free Americans from being "trapped in a job."

 

Seriously. I'm not making this up.

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post #2350 of 2360
You don't think some people feel trapped in a job because of their circumstances? You don't think one of those circumstances could be the need to secure health coverage for their family?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

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post #2351 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

You don't think some people feel trapped in a job because of their circumstances? You don't think one of those circumstances could be the need to secure health coverage for their family?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

By that reasoning, needing to work to survive means you are trapped.

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post #2352 of 2360
That's certainly a perspective.

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post #2353 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

You don't think some people feel trapped in a job because of their circumstances? You don't think one of those circumstances could be the need to secure health coverage for their family?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

That is Bizarro World logic.

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post #2354 of 2360

Those are questions inviting you to apply your own logic, not an application of logic in themselves.  If it's Bizarro World, then that's what you're bringing to it.

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post #2355 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Those are questions inviting you to apply your own logic, not an application of logic in themselves.  If it's Bizarro World, then that's what you're bringing to it.

It's "Bizarro World" because a system that was partially "broken" before due to government regulations and interference is now more severely broken. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to fairness is paved with competition and deregulation.

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Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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post #2356 of 2360

Spoken like a true believer.

 

I don't agree at all.  The road of pure competition and deregulation is a sad, squalid and painful road of ever expanding inequality, economic classism and deprivation, and multi-faceted abuse and pollution.  Not one I want to walk on, either as a rich or poor man.

 

What, exactly, is more severely broken about healthcare now than was before the PPACA?

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post #2357 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Spoken like a true believer.

 

I don't agree at all.  The road of pure competition and deregulation is a sad, squalid and painful road of ever expanding inequality, economic classism and deprivation, and multi-faceted abuse and pollution.  Not one I want to walk on, either as a rich or poor man.

 

What, exactly, is more severely broken about healthcare now than was before the PPACA?

 

Health care has been broken every since the government every since government mandated wage freezes for World War II and employers started offering health insurance as a means to get around the wage freezes. Every market that the government participates in heavily becomes inefficient and has cost increases that outpace the rest of the economy and the rate of inflation. (Which they also cause via the Fed and money supply.)

 

Higher education, medical care, more recently with housing, all develop crazy bubbles or massive cost inefficiencies and the government declares they are the solution to the fact that they are the problem.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #2358 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

You don't think some people feel trapped in a job because of their circumstances? You don't think one of those circumstances could be the need to secure health coverage for their family?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

ObamaCare didn't fix that though. Only made it worse. Unless you view employers dropping coverage as the solution.

post #2359 of 2360

The American government, headed by a so-called constitutional law expert (or so we were told by the left here in 2008) continues to break the law in support of a health care plan that everyone knows is killing U.S. jobs by the thousands.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #2360 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

What are your thoughts on the MA plan aka RomneyCare? This legislation was based on the individual mandate, and was also drafted  by the same think tank - the Heritage Foundation - that put together ObamaCare - and consequently has many similarities to ObamaCare.  I imagine there must have been a lot of debate about that plan, not just in MA, but all around neighboring states on the East Coast. What was the general reaction amongst conservatives - and liberals for that matter, to RomneyCare? Was it received with the same (deserved) degree of hostility as ObamaCare?

If I may... Plans drawn up and implemented at the state level may or may not be ideal, however they ARE constitutionally allowed. Federal health care is clearly not allowed.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply
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