The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality - Page 2

A pretty cartoon and a little mocking won't wipe away the reality that the top rate in the U.S. will be mid 50's% for all income taxes and that rate will be higher or on par with many socialist countries.

Originally Posted by trumptman

Hands,

I tried to dig deeper into these numbers, but cannot find the source. Can you help me out?



A pretty cartoon and a little mocking won't wipe away the reality that the top rate in the U.S. will be mid 50's% for all income taxes and that rate will be higher or on par with many socialist countries.

Originally Posted by trumptman

the top rate in the U.S. will be mid 50's% for all income taxes and that rate will be higher or on par with many socialist countries.

Originally Posted by Northgate

Supporters of the GOP are too interested in continuing to allow their corporate overloads the ability to murder Americans by way of spreadsheet. And they will support their insurance brethren at all costs so that many more Americans can be murdered just so they can say the "ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET! ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET!"

Originally Posted by FloorJack

We've been found out! RUN!

Originally Posted by trumptman

Oh crap... the DUCKs are coming, the DUCKS, are coming!

Originally Posted by jazzguru

Those stupid ducks. Always waddling and quacking. I know they're up to something. It's a conspiracy.

Originally Posted by Northgate

Supporters of the GOP are too interested in continuing to allow their corporate overloads the ability to murder Americans by way of spreadsheet. And they will support their insurance brethren at all costs so that many more Americans can be murdered just so they can say the "ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET! ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET!"

Originally Posted by Taskiss

Yet, the biggest threat to the administrations health care plan are Democrats.

A key House committee on Tuesday indefinitely postponed voting on health care reform legislation after Democratic leaders were unable to line up enough votes from moderate members of their own party.

President Obama has irked close allies in Congress by declaring he has the right to ignore legislation on constitutional grounds after having criticized George W. Bush for doing the same.

Four senior House Democrats on Tuesday said they were "surprised" and "chagrined" by Obama's declaration in June that he doesn't have to comply with provisions in a war spending bill that puts conditions on aid provided to the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.

Originally Posted by Taskiss

Yet, the biggest threat to the administrations health care plan are Democrats.

Originally Posted by Talon8472

Northgate, you seem to think competition and choice by the people in the health care sector will yield more inefficiencies (poorer results) than having one monopoly (government) controlling the whole system. If you do in fact believe this, it is only because you lack the understanding of how/why capitalism works (and is the best) in the first place. That goes for anyone on the boards and elsewhere who are proponents of monopolistic systems.

Originally Posted by Northgate

I started reading what you said, but I had to stop at the "one monopoly (government)". That's certainly not being proposed. It's not in the current bill? Oh, that's right. That's your "theory" as to what will happen.

The government providing health insurance to those who cannot get it the "free market" route does not constitute a monopoly.

So I guess it's either DEATH BY SPREADSHEET or DEATH BY GOVERNMENT MONOPOLY eh? I'll take government monopoly any day. Death by spreadsheet always prevails.

WASHINGTON, JULY 21, 2009-- More than 88 million Americans could lose their private, employer-based coverage, according toa new analysis of The American Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 released this week by The Heritage Foundation.

Heritage commissioned The Lewin Group, a highly respected health care policy and management consulting firm, to examine the impact the House health reform bill would have on private insurance when a government-run health plan is introduced in the marketplace.

The study found that 88.1 million Americans could be transitioned out of their current plan as employers opt out of continuing their existing coverage. These Americans would lose the employer coverage they now have. The study also found that nationwide 103.4 million Americans would end up on the new government-run public plan.

"This flies in the face of the current promises that if you like your health insurance coverage, you will keep it," said Heritage Vice President Stuart Butler. "If the public plan is implemented as detailed in this House bill, people with private insurance will be moved on a public plan, regardless of what they want, because their employers will make that decision because of the financial incentives in the bill."

Other key points from the Lewin study include:

* Yearly premiums for Americans with private coverage could jump as much as $460 per person as a result of more cost-shifting, which would stem from the public plan.
* Doctors stand to lose thousands of dollars of income under the legislation. Annual physician net income is estimated to drop by 6.3 percent or $13.4 billion (coming in at an average $18,900 per physician) when compared with current trends.

You can read the entire study and find more health reform information at Heritage's new Web site www.fixhealthcarepolicy.com.

Originally Posted by FormerLurker

Very interesting - "ObamaCare" is being endorsed by the AMA!

The American Medical Association -- the nation's largest physician organization with nearly 250,000 members -- initially opposed the president's plan, but backed the House Democrats' version of the bill last week. That has led to an internal dispute that has resulted in some physicians leaving the nation's largest doctors' association.

Some doctors charge the bill will lead to inferior patient care as physician offices around the country triple their patient lists and become forced to ration care.

"This is war," Dr. George Watson, a Kansas physician and president-elect of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons, told FOXNews.com Thursday. "This is a bureaucratic boondoggle to grab control of health care. Everything that has been proposed in the 1,018 page bill will contribute to the ruination of medicine."

Originally Posted by jazzguru

Doctors Wage War Against Obama's Health Care Overhaul

Excerpt:

Originally Posted by jazzguru

If this bill passes, the "free market" as it pertains to health care will no longer exist.

Millions Would Lose Private Insurance Under Health Reform Bill, Study Shows



Note the website at the end: http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/

All those who say that Conservatives are not offering any alternative solutions, GO THERE.

Originally Posted by Northgate

The American Heritage Foundation? A conservative think tank based on free enterprise and limited government? OF COURSE THEY DON'T LIKE IT!

And The Lewin Group? A group funded by private insurers? Jesus!!!!!

Originally Posted by trumptman

What complete jackasses! They support things like free enterprise and limited government. I'm pretty sure free enterprise is right up there terrorism.

I never realized free enterprise ought to be uttered like a profanity.

Originally Posted by jazzguru

You're welcome to comment on the content of the article and that website, you know.

Originally Posted by Northgate

It always amazes me how you guys refuse to read linked articles from progressive websites because "the data that is reported is selective and slanted". Right? Supporters of the GOP absolutely will not read linked articles from HuffPo, Center for American Progess, Media Matters or anyone they deem stupid fucking hippies.

Which is your right. You don't trust the source, I get it.

Originally Posted by jazzguru

Stop it with the generalizations, already.

It's an open invitation. There really is some good information at those links I posted.

Originally Posted by Northgate

So you haven't refused to read articles from progressive think tanks?

Originally Posted by Northgate

Of course doctors oppose health care reform. They don't want their big fat paychecks to suffer.

Originally Posted by Frank777

Wow. First it was 'Big Pharma', then HMO administrations, now Doctors.

The Left hates everybody in the U.S. medical system except the Government?

Originally Posted by jazzguru

I try to read through everything that's linked, regardless of source. Just because I don't comment on it doesn't mean I haven't read it.

Originally Posted by Northgate

So you don't think it's safe to wrap big pharma, doctors and insurers into a group who want to protect their status quo?

I only "hate" when I see Supporters of the GOP support the murder of American citizens by way of the spreadsheet.

I do find it hilarious that when the government is controlled by the GOP that you should be thankful that your "Daddy" is in charge. And when Democrats are in control Government is evil, evil, evil.

Government can be trusted to keep us safe. Government can be trusted to invade other countries. Government can be trusted to control the cost of fuel. Government can be trusted to protect Wallstreet.

But suddenly government can't be trusted with our health care.

Originally Posted by jazzguru

I don't believe I have ever said that government can be trusted to do anything outside its Constitutional bounds.

Originally Posted by Northgate

So what would Ron Paul do to fix the problem?

Originally Posted by Northgate

So you don't think it's safe to wrap big pharma, doctors and insurers into a group who want to protect their status quo?

Originally Posted by Northgate

I only "hate" when I see Supporters of the GOP support the murder of American citizens by way of the spreadsheet.

Originally Posted by Northgate

I do find it hilarious that when the government is controlled by the GOP that you should be thankful that your "Daddy" is in charge. And when Democrats are in control Government is evil, evil, evil.

Government can be trusted to keep us safe. Government can be trusted to invade other countries. Government can be trusted to control the cost of fuel. Government can be trusted to protect Wallstreet.

Originally Posted by trumptman

Here is the crux of the matter, the fundimental problem that no amount of spin and pretty platitudes will make go away.

We currently have government health care for certain segments of society. The cost of care for these segments is so high that it is estimated it will consume 100% of GDP and bankrupt the entire country within a relatively short timeframe (50-75 years depending upon the source.)

Under health care "reform" we are going to apply this bankrupt solution to millions more, 45-105 million more depending upon the source.

Some how we will save money by doing this and not have rationing.

No one buys this. If government could do it right, we would already be saving money, not careening toward the financial abyss. If government were already doing us a favor in this regard, people would be clamoring for this solution instead of decrying it.

If government could do it right, we would already be saving money, not careening toward the financial abyss.

What I'm trying to figure out why so many people attribute the current problems in the health care marketplace entirely to the private entities and none of it to the government's actions in that marketplace.

Originally Posted by groverat

Straw man, ahoy!

Originally Posted by groverat

I think the problem with healthcare is the government-approved monopoly private corporations have on health insurance, as bought and paid for by lobbyists and executives in private health industries.