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The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality - Page 2

post #41 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"According to the Economist the total US spend on health care is 15.4% of GDP including both state and private. With that it gets 2.6 doctors per 1,000 people, 3.3 hospital beds and its people live to an average age of 78.2.
"As a whole Europe spends 9.6% of GDP on health care, has 3.9 doctors per 1,000 people, 6.6 hospital beds and live until they are 81.15 years old.
~ http://www.nowpublic.com/health/heal...-dying-younger

Hands,

I tried to dig deeper into these numbers, but cannot find the source. Can you help me out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

They sure do!

A pretty cartoon and a little mocking won't wipe away the reality that the top rate in the U.S. will be mid 50's% for all income taxes and that rate will be higher or on par with many socialist countries.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #42 of 2360
Quote:
A pretty cartoon and a little mocking won't wipe away the reality that the top rate in the U.S. will be mid 50's% for all income taxes and that rate will be higher or on par with many socialist countries.

Yes, finally.

It should be even higher to pay for our absurd military spending.

"Pay for what you spend? UNAMERICAN!"
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #43 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Hands,

I tried to dig deeper into these numbers, but cannot find the source. Can you help me out?



A pretty cartoon and a little mocking won't wipe away the reality that the top rate in the U.S. will be mid 50's% for all income taxes and that rate will be higher or on par with many socialist countries.

I believe that those figures originate from the Organisation of Economic Development, OECD. You have to pay for it, if you want to see the original data. You can get it from their website here- http://www.oecd.org/document/30/0,33..._1_1_1,00.html
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #44 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

the top rate in the U.S. will be mid 50's% for all income taxes and that rate will be higher or on par with many socialist countries.

A speculative claim dishonestly presented as fact.

These figures are absolutely absurd. Where did you get them? How can you possibly know what the income tax figures will be?

Please provide a link, to the US Treasury, for example, to back up this speculative claim that base income tax levels will be higher than those in Sweden and Denmark.
post #45 of 2360
Supporters of the GOP are too interested in continuing to allow their corporate overloads the ability to murder Americans by way of spreadsheet. And they will support their insurance brethren at all costs so that many more Americans can be murdered just so they can say the "ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET! ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET!"
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #46 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Supporters of the GOP are too interested in continuing to allow their corporate overloads the ability to murder Americans by way of spreadsheet. And they will support their insurance brethren at all costs so that many more Americans can be murdered just so they can say the "ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET! ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET!"

We've been found out! RUN!
post #47 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

We've been found out! RUN!

If it walks like a duck....
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #48 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Oh crap... the DUCKs are coming, the DUCKS, are coming!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #49 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Oh crap... the DUCKs are coming, the DUCKS, are coming!

Those stupid ducks. Always waddling and quacking. I know they're up to something. It's a conspiracy.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #50 of 2360
Northgate, you seem to think competition and choice by the people in the health care sector will yield more inefficiencies (poorer results) than having one monopoly (government) controlling the whole system. If you do in fact believe this, it is only because you lack the understanding of how/why capitalism works (and is the best) in the first place. That goes for anyone on the boards and elsewhere who are proponents of monopolistic systems.
post #51 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Those stupid ducks. Always waddling and quacking. I know they're up to something. It's a conspiracy.

And that from a Denialist.....!!!!!!
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #52 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Supporters of the GOP are too interested in continuing to allow their corporate overloads the ability to murder Americans by way of spreadsheet. And they will support their insurance brethren at all costs so that many more Americans can be murdered just so they can say the "ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET! ALL HAIL THE FREE MARKET!"

Yet, the biggest threat to the administrations health care plan are Democrats.
post #53 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Yet, the biggest threat to the administrations health care plan are Democrats.

How ironic, eh? The Dems have TEH POWER, yet not all is rosy in the land of the jackass.

Key House Panel Cancels Health Care Session as Moderate Democrats Voice Concerns

Quote:
A key House committee on Tuesday indefinitely postponed voting on health care reform legislation after Democratic leaders were unable to line up enough votes from moderate members of their own party.

Obama Irks Some Democrats By Declaring He Can Ignore Legislation

Quote:
President Obama has irked close allies in Congress by declaring he has the right to ignore legislation on constitutional grounds after having criticized George W. Bush for doing the same.

Four senior House Democrats on Tuesday said they were "surprised" and "chagrined" by Obama's declaration in June that he doesn't have to comply with provisions in a war spending bill that puts conditions on aid provided to the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #54 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Yet, the biggest threat to the administrations health care plan are Democrats.

I agree. The Blue Dogs. And I'm sick to death of their shit and I want them primaried in a big way.

It sucks not heaving a real progressive liberal political party to belong to. I'm stuck with these stupid idiot Democrats and their addiction to lobbyist money.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #55 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon8472 View Post

Northgate, you seem to think competition and choice by the people in the health care sector will yield more inefficiencies (poorer results) than having one monopoly (government) controlling the whole system. If you do in fact believe this, it is only because you lack the understanding of how/why capitalism works (and is the best) in the first place. That goes for anyone on the boards and elsewhere who are proponents of monopolistic systems.

I started reading what you said, but I had to stop at the "one monopoly (government)". That's certainly not being proposed. It's not in the current bill? Oh, that's right. That's your "theory" as to what will happen.

The government providing health insurance to those who cannot get it the "free market" route does not constitute a monopoly.

So I guess it's either DEATH BY SPREADSHEET or DEATH BY GOVERNMENT MONOPOLY eh? I'll take government monopoly any day. Death by spreadsheet always prevails.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #56 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I started reading what you said, but I had to stop at the "one monopoly (government)". That's certainly not being proposed. It's not in the current bill? Oh, that's right. That's your "theory" as to what will happen.

The government providing health insurance to those who cannot get it the "free market" route does not constitute a monopoly.

So I guess it's either DEATH BY SPREADSHEET or DEATH BY GOVERNMENT MONOPOLY eh? I'll take government monopoly any day. Death by spreadsheet always prevails.

If this bill passes, the "free market" as it pertains to health care will no longer exist.

Millions Would Lose Private Insurance Under Health Reform Bill, Study Shows

Quote:

WASHINGTON, JULY 21, 2009-- More than 88 million Americans could lose their private, employer-based coverage, according toa new analysis of The American Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 released this week by The Heritage Foundation.

Heritage commissioned The Lewin Group, a highly respected health care policy and management consulting firm, to examine the impact the House health reform bill would have on private insurance when a government-run health plan is introduced in the marketplace.

The study found that 88.1 million Americans could be transitioned out of their current plan as employers opt out of continuing their existing coverage. These Americans would lose the employer coverage they now have. The study also found that nationwide 103.4 million Americans would end up on the new government-run public plan.

"This flies in the face of the current promises that if you like your health insurance coverage, you will keep it," said Heritage Vice President Stuart Butler. "If the public plan is implemented as detailed in this House bill, people with private insurance will be moved on a public plan, regardless of what they want, because their employers will make that decision because of the financial incentives in the bill."

Other key points from the Lewin study include:

* Yearly premiums for Americans with private coverage could jump as much as $460 per person as a result of more cost-shifting, which would stem from the public plan.
* Doctors stand to lose thousands of dollars of income under the legislation. Annual physician net income is estimated to drop by 6.3 percent or $13.4 billion (coming in at an average $18,900 per physician) when compared with current trends.

You can read the entire study and find more health reform information at Heritage's new Web site www.fixhealthcarepolicy.com.

Note the website at the end: http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/

All those who say that Conservatives are not offering any alternative solutions, GO THERE.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #57 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

Very interesting - "ObamaCare" is being endorsed by the AMA!

Doctors Wage War Against Obama's Health Care Overhaul

Excerpt:
Quote:
The American Medical Association -- the nation's largest physician organization with nearly 250,000 members -- initially opposed the president's plan, but backed the House Democrats' version of the bill last week. That has led to an internal dispute that has resulted in some physicians leaving the nation's largest doctors' association.

Some doctors charge the bill will lead to inferior patient care as physician offices around the country triple their patient lists and become forced to ration care.

"This is war," Dr. George Watson, a Kansas physician and president-elect of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons, told FOXNews.com Thursday. "This is a bureaucratic boondoggle to grab control of health care. Everything that has been proposed in the 1,018 page bill will contribute to the ruination of medicine."

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #58 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Doctors Wage War Against Obama's Health Care Overhaul

Excerpt:

Of course doctors oppose health care reform. They don't want their big fat paychecks to suffer.
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post #59 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

If this bill passes, the "free market" as it pertains to health care will no longer exist.

Millions Would Lose Private Insurance Under Health Reform Bill, Study Shows



Note the website at the end: http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/

All those who say that Conservatives are not offering any alternative solutions, GO THERE.

The American Heritage Foundation? A conservative think tank based on free enterprise and limited government? OF COURSE THEY DON'T LIKE IT!

And The Lewin Group? A group funded by private insurers? Jesus!!!!!
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #60 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

The American Heritage Foundation? A conservative think tank based on free enterprise and limited government? OF COURSE THEY DON'T LIKE IT!

And The Lewin Group? A group funded by private insurers? Jesus!!!!!

You're welcome to comment on the content of the article and that website, you know.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #61 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

The American Heritage Foundation? A conservative think tank based on free enterprise and limited government? OF COURSE THEY DON'T LIKE IT!

And The Lewin Group? A group funded by private insurers? Jesus!!!!!

What complete jackasses! They support things like free enterprise and limited government. I'm pretty sure free enterprise is right up there terrorism.

I never realized free enterprise ought to be uttered like a profanity.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #62 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

What complete jackasses! They support things like free enterprise and limited government. I'm pretty sure free enterprise is right up there terrorism.

I never realized free enterprise ought to be uttered like a profanity.

But you will admit they only support one side of the isle, right?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #63 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You're welcome to comment on the content of the article and that website, you know.

It always amazes me how you guys refuse to read linked articles from progressive websites because "the data that is reported is selective and slanted". Right? Supporters of the GOP absolutely will not read linked articles from HuffPo, Center for American Progess, Media Matters or anyone they deem stupid fucking hippies.

Which is your right. You don't trust the source, I get it.
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post #64 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

It always amazes me how you guys refuse to read linked articles from progressive websites because "the data that is reported is selective and slanted". Right? Supporters of the GOP absolutely will not read linked articles from HuffPo, Center for American Progess, Media Matters or anyone they deem stupid fucking hippies.

Which is your right. You don't trust the source, I get it.

Stop it with the generalizations, already.

It's an open invitation. There really is some good information at those links I posted.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #65 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Stop it with the generalizations, already.

It's an open invitation. There really is some good information at those links I posted.

So you haven't refused to read articles from progressive think tanks?
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post #66 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

So you haven't refused to read articles from progressive think tanks?

I try to read through everything that's linked, regardless of source. Just because I don't comment on it doesn't mean I haven't read it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #67 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

But you will admit they only support one side of the isle, right?

When you have a principle, you support whoever supports the principle. Is it your contention that only Republicans support the free market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

It always amazes me how you guys refuse to read linked articles from progressive websites because "the data that is reported is selective and slanted". Right? Supporters of the GOP absolutely will not read linked articles from HuffPo, Center for American Progess, Media Matters or anyone they deem stupid fucking hippies.

Which is your right. You don't trust the source, I get it.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I read several liberal sources daily and I mean partisan liberal not just incidentally liberal like the NY Times. I have no problem going to HuffPo, Daily Kos or TPM. I won't watch cable news much though. Didn't we get over this back when I made a claim about the Al Franken book, WHICH I HAD READ, and then you all pissed and moaned because he had no index and I had to dig through it to find the claim again? You don't remember that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I try to read through everything that's linked, regardless of source. Just because I don't comment on it doesn't mean I haven't read it.

Exactlly.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #68 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Of course doctors oppose health care reform. They don't want their big fat paychecks to suffer.

Wow. First it was 'Big Pharma', then HMO administrations, now Doctors.

The Left hates everybody in the U.S. medical system except the Government?
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #69 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Wow. First it was 'Big Pharma', then HMO administrations, now Doctors.

The Left hates everybody in the U.S. medical system except the Government?

So you don't think it's safe to wrap big pharma, doctors and insurers into a group who want to protect their status quo?

I only "hate" when I see Supporters of the GOP support the murder of American citizens by way of the spreadsheet.

I do find it hilarious that when the government is controlled by the GOP that you should be thankful that your "Daddy" is in charge. And when Democrats are in control Government is evil, evil, evil.

Government can be trusted to keep us safe. Government can be trusted to invade other countries. Government can be trusted to control the cost of fuel. Government can be trusted to protect Wallstreet.

But suddenly government can't be trusted with our health care.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #70 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I try to read through everything that's linked, regardless of source. Just because I don't comment on it doesn't mean I haven't read it.

Funny how that doesn't apply to me.
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post #71 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

So you don't think it's safe to wrap big pharma, doctors and insurers into a group who want to protect their status quo?

I only "hate" when I see Supporters of the GOP support the murder of American citizens by way of the spreadsheet.

I do find it hilarious that when the government is controlled by the GOP that you should be thankful that your "Daddy" is in charge. And when Democrats are in control Government is evil, evil, evil.

Government can be trusted to keep us safe. Government can be trusted to invade other countries. Government can be trusted to control the cost of fuel. Government can be trusted to protect Wallstreet.

But suddenly government can't be trusted with our health care.

I don't believe I have ever said that government can be trusted to do anything outside its Constitutional bounds.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #72 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't believe I have ever said that government can be trusted to do anything outside its Constitutional bounds.

So what would Ron Paul do to fix the problem?
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post #73 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

So what would Ron Paul do to fix the problem?

http://tinyurl.com/m8z9vy

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #74 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

So you don't think it's safe to wrap big pharma, doctors and insurers into a group who want to protect their status quo?

No, it's not. Assigning altruistic motives to the government bureaucrats while painting everyone else in health care as 'in it for the money' is a diseased way of thinking.

Lots of people study for years in medical and career schools because they want to help the hurting, discover new ways of treating illnesses or become a part of of a system that does that.

How do you like it when people talk about filmmakers as a group who are willing to do anything for money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I only "hate" when I see Supporters of the GOP support the murder of American citizens by way of the spreadsheet.

I don't know if this is some kind of crazy democratic talking point you're continually using, but it's fundamentally dishonest. I live in Canada, king of the Single-Payer system.

There are plenty of people "dying by spreadsheet" over here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I do find it hilarious that when the government is controlled by the GOP that you should be thankful that your "Daddy" is in charge. And when Democrats are in control Government is evil, evil, evil.

Government can be trusted to keep us safe. Government can be trusted to invade other countries. Government can be trusted to control the cost of fuel. Government can be trusted to protect Wallstreet.

Wow. That's just crazy. Conservatives on this board (and elsewhere) have continually advocated the exact opposite.

Control the cost of fuel? What on earth...???
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #75 of 2360
Thread Starter 
Here is the crux of the matter, the fundimental problem that no amount of spin and pretty platitudes will make go away.

We currently have government health care for certain segments of society. The cost of care for these segments is so high that it is estimated it will consume 100% of GDP and bankrupt the entire country within a relatively short timeframe (50-75 years depending upon the source.)

Under health care "reform" we are going to apply this bankrupt solution to millions more, 45-105 million more depending upon the source.

Some how we will save money by doing this and not have rationing.






No one buys this. If government could do it right, we would already be saving money, not careening toward the financial abyss. If government were already doing us a favor in this regard, people would be clamoring for this solution instead of decrying it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #76 of 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Here is the crux of the matter, the fundimental problem that no amount of spin and pretty platitudes will make go away.

We currently have government health care for certain segments of society. The cost of care for these segments is so high that it is estimated it will consume 100% of GDP and bankrupt the entire country within a relatively short timeframe (50-75 years depending upon the source.)

Under health care "reform" we are going to apply this bankrupt solution to millions more, 45-105 million more depending upon the source.

Some how we will save money by doing this and not have rationing.

No one buys this. If government could do it right, we would already be saving money, not careening toward the financial abyss. If government were already doing us a favor in this regard, people would be clamoring for this solution instead of decrying it.

Definitely works for me.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #77 of 2360
Quote:
If government could do it right, we would already be saving money, not careening toward the financial abyss.

If the private corporate world could do it right, we would already be saving money, not careening toward the financial abyss.

Wait...
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post #78 of 2360
What I'm trying to figure out why so many people attribute the current problems in the health care marketplace entirely to the private entities and none of it to the government's actions in that marketplace.

The prevailing belief seems to be that the free-market has failed in the health care market and government intervention is now required. But this is either ignorance or intellectual dishonesty because there is no such thing as a free-market in health care in this country. Nothing even close in fact. There is a massive amount of government "involvement" in this market, yet all of the failings are automatically assumed to be the result of the "free market" not the government actions.

Why is that?
post #79 of 2360
Quote:
What I'm trying to figure out why so many people attribute the current problems in the health care marketplace entirely to the private entities and none of it to the government's actions in that marketplace.

Straw man, ahoy!

I think the problem with healthcare is the government-approved monopoly private corporations have on health insurance, as bought and paid for by lobbyists and executives in private health industries.

We get the worst of both worlds here in American healthcare.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

Straw man, ahoy!

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't see that as a straw man. I don't see much blame at all being placed at the feet of the government's actions in this area (and what blame is placed is usually in the form of claiming there isn't enough, not that the present actions might be causing these problems). All of the blame is being placed on the so-called "free market".


Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

I think the problem with healthcare is the government-approved monopoly private corporations have on health insurance, as bought and paid for by lobbyists and executives in private health industries.

Yes, and what's being proposed is even more of this. What's happening is effectively an even more centrally planned, monopolized, cartelized, controlled health care "market". This will be a disaster.
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