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AT&T Navigator turn-by-turn GPS solution hits the App Store - Page 4

post #121 of 129
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Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Add it up, consider the level of coverage and service and figure it out for yourself. I already gave you my personal example.

At least in my experience with the iPhone, I've found AT&T to be a lot more open than the industry norm. I would not consider their network condition to be tyranny just incompetence.



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Everything is on the way out.

HDSPA has much more room to grow over the next few years and will naturally evolve into LTE. It has a longer future time line than EV-DO.


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Apple is no longer a start up in the cell phone game. They are not a start up with limited resources or money. Claiming that you can just keep doing something until it fails is the worse kind of business planning. Many reviews for the GS note that the hardware is nothing new, the specs are finally coming up to not so far behind and the software was basically about adding what was missing from the iPhone compared to other smart phones (TBT GPS, MMS, copy/paste, etc.) Apple basically lucked into the app store since it clearly wasn't planned at the beginning but all their competitors will be there very soon.

Every company has limited resouces. Some companies have access to more resources than others.

The hardware for the iPhone has always been off the shelf parts. The software has always been the differentiator. At least until Apple uses it's own chips in the near future.

The App Store was always planned. Apple announced the SDK was coming a couple of months after the original iPhone was launched.

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The other point is that the competitors aren't just catching up but are moving at a much faster rate than one release a year. Palm has already had two updates. Their app store will be out in three months, not twelve. Palm Eon will be out in a couple months, not a couple years. The next version of the Storm will be out within a couple months and several other models have been upgraded as well.

The Pre app store is already available. The SDK isn't publicly available.

For the past two and a half years people have been declaring the phone that will best the iPhone is about to come out soon.

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Others are doing more with less in shorter time-frames. Apple has to respond.

I don't understand this logic, why does Apple have to compete with companies who are doing more with less?



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Listing everything that comes with the data plan is ridiculous. It is like declaring that because you pay your electric bill, everything that plugs into a wall is a feature of that bill.

The iPhone is a purpose built platform. The electric plugs in my house are not. I'm not sure how you tie them together.
post #122 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Everything is on the way out. Considering Apple has twenty million or so in sales for the iPhone worldwide, what makes you think they should scoff at a potential new and untapped market so large. Maybe including entire segments of the world that are undeveloped and don't even use cell phones might make you feel better, but doesn't change market dynamics. Other companies are catching up quick and aren't artificially limiting themselves.

Yep, Apple is limiting themselves to the most profitable 10% of the market. Boo hoo for Apple.

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The reason they don't must be known to you and magic fairies. Apple is no longer a start up in the cell phone game. They are not a start up with limited resources or money. Claiming that you can just keep doing something until it fails is the worse kind of business planning.

Claiming that someone at the top of their game as "doing something until it fails" is silly.

The reason they aren't going for other companies in the US is that Verizon isn't likely to be as flexible as AT&T has been and the other companies aren't worth the bother.

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Many reviews for the GS note that the hardware is nothing new, the specs are finally coming up to not so far behind and the software was basically about adding what was missing from the iPhone compared to other smart phones (TBT GPS, MMS, copy/paste, etc.) Apple basically lucked into the app store since it clearly wasn't planned at the beginning but all their competitors will be there very soon.

So go get a winmob phone that specs better or whatever. Oh wait, it doesn't work as well now does it. Did Apply just "luck" into that? Or maybe they designed a superior product and everyone else is playing catch up? Including the incumbents that had been sitting on their laurels forever and was poo-poohing Apple's entry prior to launch.

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The other point is that the competitors aren't just catching up but are moving at a much faster rate than one release a year.

And thus far without an "iPhone killer" that has been killer eh?

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Palm has already had two updates. Their app store will be out in three months, not twelve. Palm Eon will be out in a couple months, not a couple years. The next version of the Storm will be out within a couple months and several other models have been upgraded as well.

Given how poorly the Storm did, a new version is needed. Palm had updates because they're still adding features that didn't make launch. Their app store depends not just on the presence of a storefront but on a SDK that doesn't suck and is easy to develop for.

Two companies have decent developer tool chains: Microsoft and Apple. Visual Studio and XCode are excellent.

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Others are doing more with less in shorter time-frames. Apple has to respond.

Yes, because they didn't just release a new rev of their mobile OS and a new phone. Oh wait, they did. And the phone is the fastest on the market and faster than phones with better specs. Wow...it's like Apple did some engineering work or something instead of just puttering around the last year and pooped something out last minute.

Time to market is important. Not having a suck product and cratering your potential customer base is as well.

Apple was first to market with an advanced multitouch smartphone and everyone else has been playing catch up for the last two hardware revs and still hasn't caught them. And RIM and Nokia are also not pikers when it comes to resources.

What they aren't are good SOFTWARE companies. Frankly Palm was so-so as well and their management has always stunk.
post #123 of 129
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post #124 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

At least in my experience with the iPhone, I've found AT&T to be a lot more open than the industry norm. I would not consider their network condition to be tyranny just incompetence.

Clearly we have had different experiences. In the meantime it is clear Verizon is ending they supposed tyranny while more people than ever are bitching about AT&T's "incompetence."

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HDSPA has much more room to grow over the next few years and will naturally evolve into LTE. It has a longer future time line than EV-DO.

It doesn't really matter because every other smartphone manufacturer sells for both standards. Apple is the one willing to forgo the cash. RIM, Palm, etc will just grab the sales.

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Every company has limited resouces. Some companies have access to more resources than others.

Apple easily has the resources and cash to manage this.

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The hardware for the iPhone has always been off the shelf parts. The software has always been the differentiator. At least until Apple uses it's own chips in the near future.

The App Store was always planned. Apple announced the SDK was coming a couple of months after the original iPhone was launched.

Announcing isn't the same as providing. It was provided a year from launch. There are plenty of competing app stores planned and announced now. They won't take year to start moving.

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The Pre app store is already available. The SDK isn't publicly available.

The SDK has been leaked. The buzz is very positive. People can see it is a 99% finished, polished and will help get those apps out there quickly.

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For the past two and a half years people have been declaring the phone that will best the iPhone is about to come out soon.

And for the past two and a half years, Apple has met this by adding mostly software updates. Software can only get you so far.

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I don't understand this logic, why does Apple have to compete with companies who are doing more with less?

Because those companies have taken what was a claimed five year head start and reduced it to a two year headstart. In the meantime Apple is sitting in 30% margins and adding MMS and those other companies are still working at the same quicker pace.

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The iPhone is a purpose built platform. The electric plugs in my house are not. I'm not sure how you tie them together.

You cite things that every platform that has a network connection will have. A new feature phone from Verizon for example, The LG enV Touch, played flash embedded within the browser. The content it makes available is not a FEATURE. You cited such content as a feature.

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Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yep, Apple is limiting themselves to the most profitable 10% of the market. Boo hoo for Apple.

Boohoo indeed. The top 10% of 140 million Verizon and Spring customers would mean only another 14 million potential sales. I'm glad you feel so good about turning that all over to say RIM who went from 4.3 million in sales to 7.2 million while Apple went from 1.7 million to 3.9 million. How many of those RIM sales occurred in that 10% with no Apple solution to consider?

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Claiming that someone at the top of their game as "doing something until it fails" is silly.

Not at all and especially not in the case of Apple. They have a history where they made the mistake in the past and had to recover from it. Not wishing them to make it again is truly wanting the best for Apple.

I've been on here way to long and I'll point at an example where I was glad to be wrong. Back when the iPod came out, I complained that Apple needed to commoditize it and own the market versus sitting in their niche that while market leading, was missing opportunities. Lots of folks declared Apple needed to do nothing. I was wrong in that I said Jobs WOULDN'T commoditize the iPod because he had always resisted such actions in the past.

Jobs changed, Apple did commoditize the iPod and enjoyed the huge gains and also now enjoy being the big dog instead of just a decent size player. Apple is doing great in releasing the $99 iPhone. I give them kudos where due. However they can't just ignore entire market segments. They haven't with the iPod. They shouldn't with the iPhone.

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The reason they aren't going for other companies in the US is that Verizon isn't likely to be as flexible as AT&T has been and the other companies aren't worth the bother.

I have no doubt Spring would be as flexible and that could force the hand of Verizon. However no choice means no chance.

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So go get a winmob phone that specs better or whatever. Oh wait, it doesn't work as well now does it. Did Apply just "luck" into that? Or maybe they designed a superior product and everyone else is playing catch up? Including the incumbents that had been sitting on their laurels forever and was poo-poohing Apple's entry prior to launch.

I've already stated I own an LG Dare and won't purchase an iPhone as my next phone while they are on the AT&T network. I am very satisfied with my current phone for a number of reasoning I stated in Bergermeister's thread/poll. I said I would love to give Apple my consideration and money but they need to give me a network that will let me make a call.

Also it is about much more than just specs. Apple claimed all manner of excuses when introducing a 2G cell phone and people excused it because they were new to the industry. You find a company that keeps having radio issues in their line in years three and four and it is no longer lack of expertise, but a realization that they just don't care that much about their phone being, well a phone. Is the BB Storm as nice a phone as the iPhone? It isnt in my view, but it is also a quad-band GSM phone that also supports EVDO. Apple has a lot of new customers in their midst and they will be making judgments about their next phone purchase and won't tolerate the same excuses and rough edges the second time around.

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Given how poorly the Storm did, a new version is needed. Palm had updates because they're still adding features that didn't make launch. Their app store depends not just on the presence of a storefront but on a SDK that doesn't suck and is easy to develop for.

Two companies have decent developer tool chains: Microsoft and Apple. Visual Studio and XCode are excellent.

The point is that RIM will fix the Storm in less than a year, not take a couple off. They will not only improve that one model, they improve dozens of models across all carriers and standards. They will are adding app store. They aren't doing an Apple and saying, we've got a solution that gets us X% of the market and screw everyone else. They aren't saying, he our software solution for email is miles ahead of everyone else so we don't need to adapt or change.

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Yes, because they didn't just release a new rev of their mobile OS and a new phone. Oh wait, they did. And the phone is the fastest on the market and faster than phones with better specs. Wow...it's like Apple did some engineering work or something instead of just puttering around the last year and pooped something out last minute.

Their revision was mostly about filling holes. Honestly it was more like a .1 release than a whole new version number. It was more about plugging holes on features that showed them to be four years behind rather than moving them another couple years ahead.

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Time to market is important. Not having a suck product and cratering your potential customer base is as well.

Apple was first to market with an advanced multitouch smartphone and everyone else has been playing catch up for the last two hardware revs and still hasn't caught them. And RIM and Nokia are also not pikers when it comes to resources.

What they aren't are good SOFTWARE companies. Frankly Palm was so-so as well and their management has always stunk.

First to market two years ago. The others are making up that ground quickly.

Do you want Apple to change after they have lost the lead or before? I prefer before. You can feel the relief for example that no one is having to defend that crap camera anymore. Don't you want that relief for cell radio, AT&T, battery life, multitasking? Apple needs to get on the ball.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #125 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Apple easily has the resources and cash to manage this.

And yet they pulled resources from the Mac side to finish the iPhone. Sure, they COULD hire a bunch of folks and then fire them later.

It's a another thing to do and I'm sure they looked at it but it fell below the cut line because of lack of interest on the part of Verizon.

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Announcing isn't the same as providing. It was provided a year from launch. There are plenty of competing app stores planned and announced now. They won't take year to start moving.

And there were plenty of planned and announced music stores. It may not take a year for Palm to get moving but I doubt they'll move as far.

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The SDK has been leaked. The buzz is very positive. People can see it is a 99% finished, polished and will help get those apps out there quickly.

They should have released by now but it's still a work in progress from what I hear. It should be fine by the time they get it out the door at the end of summer.

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And for the past two and a half years, Apple has met this by adding mostly software updates. Software can only get you so far.

Yes because going from EDGE to 3G was a software change, and that's not a Cortex-A8 in the new 3GS.

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Because those companies have taken what was a claimed five year head start and reduced it to a two year headstart. In the meantime Apple is sitting in 30% margins and adding MMS and those other companies are still working at the same quicker pace.

It's a given that there was a lot of low hanging fruit with which to close some of the gap. But Apple isn't sitting still and just added access to the dock which opens up a lot of 3rd party peripherals.

And no one has the same music and media capabilities in their phones.


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Boohoo indeed. The top 10% of 140 million Verizon and Spring customers would mean only another 14 million potential sales. I'm glad you feel so good about turning that all over to say RIM who went from 4.3 million in sales to 7.2 million while Apple went from 1.7 million to 3.9 million. How many of those RIM sales occurred in that 10% with no Apple solution to consider?

Sure. If the choice is between the 3GS and a 3G equivalent on Verizon it's no contest. I pick having the 3GS. And while Apple COULD do both I think they are already stretched kinda thin.

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Not at all and especially not in the case of Apple. They have a history where they made the mistake in the past and had to recover from it. Not wishing them to make it again is truly wanting the best for Apple.

I've been on here way to long and I'll point at an example where I was glad to be wrong. Back when the iPod came out, I complained that Apple needed to commoditize it and own the market versus sitting in their niche that while market leading, was missing opportunities. Lots of folks declared Apple needed to do nothing. I was wrong in that I said Jobs WOULDN'T commoditize the iPod because he had always resisted such actions in the past.

And what makes you think that you're right this time and Apple is wrong? When they see the business need to support Verizon AND Verizon will accept them on APPLE'S terms then it'll happen.

Do you think Jobs has some bizzaro vendetta against Verizon that he won't let Apple release an iPhone for Verizon?

And obviously Apple doesn't care to gain share at any cost...or they'd have cut a deal with a Chinese operator by now.

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Jobs changed, Apple did commoditize the iPod and enjoyed the huge gains and also now enjoy being the big dog instead of just a decent size player. Apple is doing great in releasing the $99 iPhone. I give them kudos where due. However they can't just ignore entire market segments. They haven't with the iPod. They shouldn't with the iPhone.

They do ignore entire market segments or we wouldn't have perpetual xMac whining.

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I have no doubt Spring would be as flexible and that could force the hand of Verizon. However no choice means no chance.

So you're saying that the company that was bright enough to commoditize the iPod is too stupid to understand Verizon's US market share? Or maybe they have info that you and I don't have and it's simply not the right time for it?

Nah...they're obviously idiots and doomed to failure.

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I've already stated I own an LG Dare and won't purchase an iPhone as my next phone while they are on the AT&T network. I am very satisfied with my current phone for a number of reasoning I stated in Bergermeister's thread/poll. I said I would love to give Apple my consideration and money but they need to give me a network that will let me make a call.

Well, enjoy your Dare. Of course, you're not very well positioned to comment on how good or bad the iPhone is.

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Also it is about much more than just specs. Apple claimed all manner of excuses when introducing a 2G cell phone and people excused it because they were new to the industry.

Please, everyone understood that it was face saving for AT&T who's 3G network wasn't ready.

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You find a company that keeps having radio issues in their line in years three and four and it is no longer lack of expertise, but a realization that they just don't care that much about their phone being, well a phone. Is the BB Storm as nice a phone as the iPhone? It isnt in my view, but it is also a quad-band GSM phone that also supports EVDO.

The lack of EVDO is not a "radio issue". The lack of EVDO is due completely to a lack of agreement between Verizon and Apple. Apple has little reason for concession on things they consider important and the longer that Verizon drags it out, the closer LTE is. At which point, there's no point in supporting EVDO.

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Apple has a lot of new customers in their midst and they will be making judgments about their next phone purchase and won't tolerate the same excuses and rough edges the second time around.

And you know this how? Because you've used the rough edges of your iPhone? Because JD Power didn't rank the iPhone at the top of customer satisfaction? Oh wait, they did.

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The point is that RIM will fix the Storm in less than a year, not take a couple off.

Again, you're saying Apple took a couple years off and simply ignoring the 3G, 3GS, OS 2.0 and OS 3.0. You're completely full of it.

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They will not only improve that one model, they improve dozens of models across all carriers and standards. They will are adding app store. They aren't doing an Apple and saying, we've got a solution that gets us X% of the market and screw everyone else. They aren't saying, he our software solution for email is miles ahead of everyone else so we don't need to adapt or change.

Yes, because Apple isn't adapting or changing at all. They didn't switch to a subsidized model for the 3g and they haven't added any new, unique features at all.

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Their revision was mostly about filling holes. Honestly it was more like a .1 release than a whole new version number. It was more about plugging holes on features that showed them to be four years behind rather than moving them another couple years ahead.

3.0 has been pretty nice but the real advantage to 3.0 over 2.0 comes later this summer with devices like TomTom. Yes, other phones have GPS and turn by turn. The iPhone will hopefully be a real GPS replacement on par with standalone GPS devices.

The difference will hopefully be like the difference of the iPhone as an iPod replacement and a Samsung as a iPod replacement.

It also opens the door to a fully featured D-pad for gaming and 720p output from the 3GS.

Done WELL the iPhone replaces a phone, an iPod, a Tom-Tom and a PSP.

Done poorly you have yet another smartphone with some music playlists, a so-so turn by turn capability and some java games.

That's the difference you don't get. Piling on poorly implement features isn't a win.

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First to market two years ago. The others are making up that ground quickly.

Do you want Apple to change after they have lost the lead or before? I prefer before. You can feel the relief for example that no one is having to defend that crap camera anymore. Don't you want that relief for cell radio, AT&T, battery life, multitasking? Apple needs to get on the ball.

I want Apple to continue to do what they are doing. Which has been to change to meet market needs and adding secondary features alongside exciting NEW features and possibilities.

Apple IS on the ball. You just choose to ignore everything positive Apple has done since launch or characterize it as "filling holes".
post #126 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

And yet they pulled resources from the Mac side to finish the iPhone. Sure, they COULD hire a bunch of folks and then fire them later. It's a another thing to do and I'm sure they looked at it but it fell below the cut line because of lack of interest on the part of Verizon.

Let me see if I understand the reasoning here. Apple has cash reserves well north of $15 billion. They are competing in two of the most innovative and quick changing industries in the world, computers and cell phones. Finally the past bit is... they can't or won't hire two full time teams to do this.

I think you point out the basis for my claims and criticisms perfectly. Thanks. Apple has large enough profits and more than enough cash on hand to easily keep and hire enough people to work on both full time. They have enough resources to address multiple models, cell radio protocols, you name it.

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And there were plenty of planned and announced music stores. It may not take a year for Palm to get moving but I doubt they'll move as far.

I think most have a much better view about the store. Many companies got into music stores expecting large profits. They thought they were selling blades and realized they were giving away razors. I don't think any platform provider starting an app store is thinking of it as a profit center.

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They should have released by now but it's still a work in progress from what I hear. It should be fine by the time they get it out the door at the end of summer.

Agreed.

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Yes because going from EDGE to 3G was a software change, and that's not a Cortex-A8 in the new 3GS.

Those aren't very large changes at all, especially when the chip that drives the cell radio and CPU are not directly developed by Apple. To me this is about as "innovative" as doubling the storage.

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It's a given that there was a lot of low hanging fruit with which to close some of the gap. But Apple isn't sitting still and just added access to the dock which opens up a lot of 3rd party peripherals.]And no one has the same music and media capabilities in their phones.

There are plenty of phones with much better music playback and even media capabilities. Much like how Mac users have to put up with such claims about no solutions etc from PC users, this is the way non-iPhone users think about any phone that doesn't use iTunes. For example I have several full length movies on my phone. Torrents are your friends.

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Sure. If the choice is between the 3GS and a 3G equivalent on Verizon it's no contest. I pick having the 3GS. And while Apple COULD do both I think they are already stretched kinda thin.

Not by a long shot, if the best Apple can do in two years, is choosing some better components from subcontractors, then they are screwed.

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And what makes you think that you're right this time and Apple is wrong? When they see the business need to support Verizon AND Verizon will accept them on APPLE'S terms then it'll happen.

First the action I wanted Apple to take WAS THE RIGHT ACTION. What I said I was wrong about was whether Jobs would do it. The man is brilliant but has some serious obsessions that keep circling around periodically with the same terrible results in terms of market performance. The Lisa, the Cube, etc. The man does occasionally miss the mark.

Realize that RIGHT NOW you are arguing what I claimed Jobs would do with the iPod and realize that he didn't do it then and the iPod has been a phenomenal success. People said Apple had made the perfect product and just needed to keep making it and incrementally improving it. The claim was that they DIDN'T need to turn it into a brand with different price points across all market segments that gave us things like the Nano, Shuffle, Touch, etc. They just needed to keep making that industry leading great iPod (that we would now call the Classic) and never change or adapt.

Apple didn't do that that then, and they shouldn't do that now.

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Do you think Jobs has some bizzaro vendetta against Verizon that he won't let Apple release an iPhone for Verizon?

I'm not sure why they won't make a CDMA phone. The business case for it is very strong.

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And obviously Apple doesn't care to gain share at any cost...or they'd have cut a deal with a Chinese operator by now.

I suspect that given that country, that might have more to do with protection of intellectual capital and copyright. To me this is more about legal infrastructure in China.

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They do ignore entire market segments or we wouldn't have perpetual xMac whining.

Exactly and those people are whining because we have PC using friends and family we could convert with that xMac and instead they run down to Best Buy and get a PC.

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So you're saying that the company that was bright enough to commoditize the iPod is too stupid to understand Verizon's US market share? Or maybe they have info that you and I don't have and it's simply not the right time for it?
Nah...they're obviously idiots and doomed to failure.

The iPod is their exception to their own rule and has been a fantastic success. I'm saying they need to throw out that rule. They need to throw out the mindset that made them a minority and at times marginal computer manufacturer and adopt more of the mindset that made them the worldwide leader in mind and marketshare of MP3 players. Both mindsets are clearly withn the company still.


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Well, enjoy your Dare. Of course, you're not very well positioned to comment on how good or bad the iPhone is.

I play with plenty of iPhones and have plenty of friends who own them. They all bitch about AT&T and dropped calls incessantly.

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Please, everyone understood that it was face saving for AT&T who's 3G network wasn't ready.

So you are saying Apple is brilliant but will cripple products to save face for an incompetent partner?

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The lack of EVDO is not a "radio issue". The lack of EVDO is due completely to a lack of agreement between Verizon and Apple. Apple has little reason for concession on things they consider important and the longer that Verizon drags it out, the closer LTE is. At which point, there's no point in supporting EVDO.

So go with Sprint, go with companies in other countries that use EVDO. Produce the phone. This is nothing but justification for what Apple hasn't done.

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And you know this how? Because you've used the rough edges of your iPhone? Because JD Power didn't rank the iPhone at the top of customer satisfaction? Oh wait, they did.

I tried to purchase an iPhone. My friends and I were going to switch. He is a sole proprietor of his business and I'm just an employee so since he sets his schedule, he went down and bought his 3G first. He called me from it all smug and I told him that he needed to roll up his window in the car so I could hear him better. The problem is he was standing in his living room.

Tell me, where did JD Power rank AT&T? Where did they rank Verizon? We should have the choice of the best with the best. I love Mac's but if Apple would only provide them on a substandard internet provider, I'd find a way to get by with something else as an example. The network IS critical for use.

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Again, you're saying Apple took a couple years off and simply ignoring the 3G, 3GS, OS 2.0 and OS 3.0. You're completely full of it.

Yes, because Apple isn't adapting or changing at all. They didn't switch to a subsidized model for the 3g and they haven't added any new, unique features at all.

Other providers have gone from nothing to 95% of the iPhone. Apple has added that 5% to stay ahead. They need to go back to the drawing board or in another year, they will be at parity or behind.

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3.0 has been pretty nice but the real advantage to 3.0 over 2.0 comes later this summer with devices like TomTom. Yes, other phones have GPS and turn by turn. The iPhone will hopefully be a real GPS replacement on par with standalone GPS devices.

My Razr had voice dialing and turn by turn GPS. Competitors already include GPS. Many smartphones include this and it is a very weak argument since it is moving closer toward being a standard feature rather than an add-on. This is like proclaiming that Apple is going to support stereo bluetooth and having everyone laugh since it is already well supported everywhere else.

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The difference will hopefully be like the difference of the iPhone as an iPod replacement and a Samsung as a iPod replacement.

It also opens the door to a fully featured D-pad for gaming and 720p output from the 3GS.

Done WELL the iPhone replaces a phone, an iPod, a Tom-Tom and a PSP.

Done poorly you have yet another smartphone with some music playlists, a so-so turn by turn capability and some java games.

That's the difference you don't get. Piling on poorly implement features isn't a win.

Yes, Apple will crush several global leading companies in their primary fields on interest with a part time software team and a jack of all trades device that will do none of them great.

Apple will sell more iPhones by going EVDO than they would ever sell to replace TomToms. I assure you.


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I want Apple to continue to do what they are doing. Which has been to change to meet market needs and adding secondary features alongside exciting NEW features and possibilities.

Apple IS on the ball. You just choose to ignore everything positive Apple has done since launch or characterize it as "filling holes".

A lot of people and a lot of reviews characterizing it as filling holes. MMS, voice dialing, GPS services, 90% of Apple's "innovation" has been offering features that were on my Razr.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #127 of 129
I'm not going to go through point by point as there really is no purpose to this discussion.

To me Trumptman, you are just criticizing just to be contradictory and this conversation is going nowhere. You want Apple to make a CDMA phone for Verizon. Apple has chosen to not make a CDMA phone, that's pretty much it, there isn't anything else to be said about it. Just because you want them to means little to the reality of the situation.
post #128 of 129
Really, let's see.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #129 of 129
AT&T - Always Taxing & Taxing more..

Just when you think they can't find another bold way to suck, there they are.. innovating the front lines of monopoly based industry, crushing innovation, and gouging the entire market with prices so outrageous that you have to wonder whether or not the head of AT&T is King George. I don't mind paying for good service, but stuff like this just rubs me the wrong way. Charge a one time fee. You're not providing anything. This program is a racket.

I'll wait for TomTom. Monthly fees for GPS, you can get one for a hundred bucks or so now and not pay a monthly fee and my iphone would be free to move around and do whatever. It makes sense to pay for programs that create convenience, but when it's something that can be mounted in your car and will never leave that spot, it's not as though you MUST have it on your iPhone so this monthly fee crap is a ridiculous business model..

I'll see you in hell AT&T.
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