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AT&T Navigator turn-by-turn GPS solution hits the App Store - Page 3

post #81 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

From what I understand Google does not license its maps for use with turn by turn.

And that's because Google in turn licenses the map data from third parties (like telenav) and they opted to not license them for turn by turn since turn by turn is the holy grail and I'm sure the entity they get the maps for charges a premium for them to be used in that manner.

TANSTAAFL
post #82 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Verizon's VZ Navigator offers a separate subscription package for worldwide navigation service --- I don't see any reason why AT&T will not do so for their own nav app service. Americans complain about AT&T's shitty 3G network and coverage --- because they compare to Verizon's much superior network and coverage.

Hardware GPS makers are dying left and right --- so it really means nothing if you get a lifetime subscription for traffic updates if the companies are out of business. You don't see carriers dying left and right.

Subscription model for TBT nav app is alive and well.

What I do not see is
  • carriers offering worldwide map coverage with their guidance services, usually national only
  • people, who are subscribed to any of those carrier guidance services; everyone around has regular on-board GPS application
  • how TomTom is dying; actually they're now busy with teaching Apple to develop GPS solutions

All those subscriptions are usually one-year prepaid ones...

All that is like 3G vs WiFi argument. Cultural differences...

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post #83 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

What I do not see is
  • carriers offering worldwide map coverage with their guidance services, usually national only
  • people, who are subscribed to any of those carrier guidance services; everyone around has regular on-board GPS application
  • how TomTom is dying; actually they're now busy with teaching Apple to develop GPS solutions

All those subscriptions are usually one-year prepaid ones...

All that is like 3G vs WiFi argument. Cultural differences...

Verizon has the Global VZ Navigator service:

http://www.intomobile.com/2009/05/02...or-global.html

TomTom just begged their shareholders for more money.

http://www.reuters.com/article/innov...55D1QU20090615

It is also a cultural difference in terms of TBT navigation apps. USA --- the land of the car driving culture --- opted for the 1 day and 1 month subscription model. Why? Because there are more people in the US driving cars than other nations.

Why do other nations (like in Europe and in Asia) opted for the $100 app? Because car ownership is much fewer --- so the people who owns cars can afford the one time payment.
post #84 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

I say fail! Let me get this straight, we are to trust the network that cannot keep our calls connected under the best of conditions, that network is going to be responsible keeping me from getting lost when I am traveling in the least perfect conditions? I think not. I wonder if they will refund the $10 fee if the service fails on your trip? This may be a $billion industry, but AT&T is not the company to lead the way. I will be waiting for Tom Tom.


EXACTLY my thoughts! Like I'd trust AT&T which has lousy coverage in part of my area, you know the sparsely populated Southern Cali region...ridicules! I"m waiting for TomTom as well. I don't like the idea of a monthly fee though. What's up with that, AT&T is already denying us the use of our 3GS iphone as a wireless modem for our laptops in hotspots and accesses us all a flat $30/mo data fee. They get enough $ from me thank you very much.
post #85 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

AT&T isn't desperately trying to do anything it can to stop hemorrhaging nearly a million customers each quarter.

It's called RAPE!
post #86 of 129
Its not at all. You are not forced to use ATT Navigation service, you are free to use any other service offered. You guys really don't understand the point of companies, their goal is to make money, they are not philanthropies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dwcerra View Post

It's called RAPE!
post #87 of 129
It is ridiculous to pay a monthly fee for GPS.. might as well use the Google map features to find the way. Just memorize the route and be on the way. Most people, including me did well using a regular map and a compass.

These subscription expenses are like entitlements. There is the wired phone at home with caller id, call waiting, 911 fees, Then come the internet, cable TV + HBO, etc + cellphone family plans, wireless internet plans, etc. Add the regular expenses people make like home, umbrella, car insurances, health insurance, term life, kids in school expense. auto maintenance, food, etc even before counting any mortgage and car notes.

Most people need another monthly expense like ATT GPS instead of using the "free" Google like they need another hole in their pocket.
post #88 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

It is ridiculous to pay a monthly fee for GPS.. might as well use the Google map features to find the way. Just memorize the route and be on the way. Most people, including me did well using a regular map and a compass.

Technically, there is no need to memorize anything if someone has an iPhone or iPod touch. Use the Google Map feature and enter the beginning and ending addresses and hit 'directions' and Google maps the route with turn-by-turn instructions. I had an iPod touch and did this easily without a data plan, just need wi-fi at home. Map out the route before you leave home (or hotel, etc.) and even without the wi-fi on the road the route stays in the iPod touch and I would use it all the time. Of course it's even easier with an iPhone, the blue dot moves with your car as you drive.

The advantage of TomTom on the phone is that it will have voice directions, so no need to keep looking down at the iPhone/touch, the dock makes it easy, and you get good maps, nearby businesses and more. Screw AT&T GPS , I'll wait for TomTom.
post #89 of 129
$10 Bucks a month for this. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
post #90 of 129
Sprint doesn't charge anything for GPS navigation.

Just saying.
post #91 of 129
so let me get this straight and i hope att reads this. As a consumer of this product,
and i can speak for all of us. We are locked into a data plan for $30 for the 3g a month. with that being said why are we being charged for more Data. Along with that MMS is not available due to networks constraints, or is it opt out codes? Either way they can develop an app in time for the 3gs release for 3.0 but not develop a solution for the mms. Im pretty sure that if someone wanted to they could file a class action for negligence on ATT side and failure to live to their own written contract and subside a portion of the monthly fee we pay to obtain the services that should be there
post #92 of 129
Although I haven't read ALL the posts, the two things most important about the TomTom system, (besides the maps of course) are the base mount with an amplified speaker, and the addition of a real live gps chip in the base to get much stronger signals. Those of us familiar with standalone GPS systems, and then having used the GPS in phones, are well aware the phones' systems, although not bad, are no where NEAR as good as standalones or bluetooth antennas.

Att's is nothing more than a feeble attempt IMHO. Sprints system is not bad, but.....its not Garmin or TomTom.

Personally I'm a garmin fan, but.....Garmin missed the boat here. Their answer to the phone/gps market took way too long, and......its not an iphone. I still have my old iQue 3600 though, and its working just fine.

I have a feeling TomTom has a winner here. This might just cause me to Get an iPhone, sign up for a minimum voice, full data plan, and replace my touch. (I need, love, and use my blackberry for my phone and work email. Luv them keyboard buttons)
post #93 of 129
For any Europeans here: I installed the Navigon for Europe today, works like a charm!

The font is a little hard to read, and hard on the eyes, but with so many comments about the font I'm sure they'll improve that in a later version. (the font reminds me early Amiga for those who remember).
post #94 of 129
This is a joke I cant see why anyone will opt for this crappy looking software for this price. The Navigon app at least has high quality looking maps and will be cheaper, hopefully TomTom will be as good and cheaper.
post #95 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Ya know what's interesting is that TomTom could literally OWN the market if they made the software cheap (< $50). But I've got a hunch they aren't going to do that...

I'm sure they'll still have optional updates for $30ish a year (or more) because the app will never expire so even if you get a new iPhone you'll be able to keep your GPS forever.

EDIT: On a side note does anyone think an independent programmer could make a Google Maps based turn by turn and release it on the app store for. idk, $10? I'd be willing to pay $10 for something that used turn by turn but still relied on the cell towers but a monthly subscription - yeah, I'm out...

I remember making something like that in VB in high school...Oh well, I didn't save the code!

My program knew the street labels, though, with a map I made. Don't know for sure but I'd doubt Google has opened their geodatabase attribute table and GIS to the public for free in order to allow this sort of thing. Because those nice Google maps are to us nothing but raster images, as far as I've seen.
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post #96 of 129
Did anyone notice Philip Schiller's plug for the TomTom system this month at WWDC 2009? He sure as hell DIDN'T peddle this pathetic POS from AT&T, which amounts to little more than groveling for revenue crumbs falling off of Apple's table.

I'll warn you - this begins a long rant against AT&T, ignited by their Navigator announcement and the recognition that this bloated relic in the communications industry still has it all wrong strategically, and may be in even more trouble in the long-run than Microsoft.

The particulars of the indictment:

1. AT&T Navigator is a desperate attempt to extract more revenue from iPhone users, serving up an app-styled system that offers little extra value for the $120/year price. The directions feature of the basic iPhone Maps app will do all the basic stuff to get you from one place to another, and a simple Google search will find you every gas station, restaurant and specialty store you want in your locale. To do a search, you don't want to be playing with your iPhone or any other GPS device while driving - traffic is dangerous enough and you need to keep your eyes on the road. Why is AT&T wasting time with a such a fringe iPhone application? This idea is in free fall out of the box and will crash in a few months with a thundering thud. If it survives a year, I'd be surprised - or it'll be another money-loser as AT&T squanders its efforts on an insignificant contribution to total revenue.

2. So far, AT&T has gotten a pass in the media about its resistance to tethering iPhones to notebooks, thus enabling a truly portable Internet connection for iPhone notebook users. As announced at the WWDC, the 3G S will have this capability in dozens of countries outside the U.S. with dozens of other wireless carriers. But here? Fuggedaboudit!! AT&T is petrified at the thought that you'll be using your phone as the equivalent of a laptop wireless modem! No more $60/month AT&T Wireless Connect fees (5GB/month maximum!)! No more Bill Kurtis commercials telling us how he's so much faster than Andy Roddick and Sugar Ray Leonard! Here again is a case of AT&T tying itself to another business venture that will decline to nothing in a few years, eclipsed by newer technology and wireless competition willing to implement it.

3. Despite what it says, this sorry behemoth is still wedded to copper - paired wire wireline POTS to residential phone customers. They'll get out of this when the contribution of the business drops below the salvage value from ripping out the wire and selling it as scrap.

4. Don't think Apple is unaware of or will overlook AT&T's anti-customer behavior by trying to prevent iPhone tethering or dragging its feet on MMS. Apple says that its current iPhones are not technically configured to work with other U.S. carriers, but what about the future? Whatever the length of Apple's exclusive carrier agreement with AT&T, you can be sure it's not perpetual. The day will come when that agreement expires, and on that very day, Apple will deploy its newest iPhone capabilities and technologies with whichever U.S. wireless carrier is willing to come to the party. For AT&T to resist the distribution of new Apple capabilities - iPhone notebook tethering being a case in point - is for AT&T to brand itself as a backwards relic, entitled to wearing dunce cap and sitting in the corner of the class.

If you're an investor for the long pull, you want to be loading up on AAPL and getting out of T while you can. It's the difference between a creative organization focused on new opportunities to win customers and a mossbound has-been trying to hold on to businesses that matter less and less in the marketplace.

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post #97 of 129
The fact that they are rolling out a potentially data hogging program but can't roll out MMS is all you need to know to fuel a red hot hatred for this company.
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post #98 of 129
If AT&T or other idiots think they can turn this service into a subsription service, they've got another thing coming. NO WAY in hell will I pay monthly service fee for this especially coming from a network that is the worst in the US.

Most GPS handsets cost about $150 including the hardware. I can't imagine Tom Tom charging more that $39.99 for the software and and $9.99 for map updates. If they do, I'm sticking with my handset from Garmin.

AT&T.... Go to hell.
post #99 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Actually about a month ago I had a road trip from California to New York, primarily guided by the iPhone. Its overstated how shitty the coverage is in the US.

Do you really need turn-by-turn directions to get from CA to NY? Just get on I-80 and drive East till you see the GW bridge. Well, OK, the whole I-95 thing at the end could be confusing to some, I guess.
post #100 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Gosh, what's with people!?

Does no one use a $4.99 Rand McNally anymore for their trips?

No we get our maps from Triple A for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Yes I am absolutely a troll.

Get back under the bridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwcerra View Post

EXACTLY my thoughts! Like I'd trust AT&T which has lousy coverage in part of my area, you know the sparsely populated Southern Cali region...ridicules! I"m waiting for TomTom as well. I don't like the idea of a monthly fee though. What's up with that, AT&T is already denying us the use of our 3GS iphone as a wireless modem for our laptops in hotspots and accesses us all a flat $30/mo data fee. They get enough $ from me thank you very much.

As much as I would love tethering to be free, I can understand their point. Lots of folks would probably just give up their home internet much like how they give up their landline. That would be a lot of revenue gone. Thanks for noting how terrible So Cal is on AT&T. Lots of folks on here just won't believe it and justify AT&T to no end due to their iPhone love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Its not at all. You are not forced to use ATT Navigation service, you are free to use any other service offered. You guys really don't understand the point of companies, their goal is to make money, they are not philanthropies.

Yes and when I get my GPS app included for $20 a month and you have to pay $30 a month for data and $10 a month more for this app, you are being charged a lot more money. BTW, I looked into what I suspect you were talking about with regard to Verizon. They've been less than perfect in the past but have opened their network to included GPS services within smartphones and are even releasing new ROMs to enable the service within previously released phones. They've already done this for the Storm and Samsung Omnia i910.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunchable Food Product View Post

Sprint doesn't charge anything for GPS navigation.

Just saying.

Ssssshhhhh.. AT&T can't be wrong. They have the iPhone so whatever they do is right by default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

Did anyone notice Philip Schiller's plug for the TomTom system this month at WWDC 2009? He sure as hell DIDN'T peddle this pathetic POS from AT&T, which amounts to little more than groveling for revenue crumbs falling off of Apple's table.

I'll warn you - this begins a long rant against AT&T, ignited by their Navigator announcement and the recognition that this bloated relic in the communications industry still has it all wrong strategically, and may be in even more trouble in the long-run than Microsoft.

The particulars of the indictment:

1. AT&T Navigator is a desperate attempt to extract more revenue from iPhone users, serving up an app-styled system that offers little extra value for the $120/year price. The directions feature of the basic iPhone Maps app will do all the basic stuff to get you from one place to another, and a simple Google search will find you every gas station, restaurant and specialty store you want in your locale. To do a search, you don't want to be playing with your iPhone or any other GPS device while driving - traffic is dangerous enough and you need to keep your eyes on the road. Why is AT&T wasting time with a such a fringe iPhone application? This idea is in free fall out of the box and will crash in a few months with a thundering thud. If it survives a year, I'd be surprised - or it'll be another money-loser as AT&T squanders its efforts on an insignificant contribution to total revenue.

2. So far, AT&T has gotten a pass in the media about its resistance to tethering iPhones to notebooks, thus enabling a truly portable Internet connection for iPhone notebook users. As announced at the WWDC, the 3G S will have this capability in dozens of countries outside the U.S. with dozens of other wireless carriers. But here? Fuggedaboudit!! AT&T is petrified at the thought that you'll be using your phone as the equivalent of a laptop wireless modem! No more $60/month AT&T Wireless Connect fees (5GB/month maximum!)! No more Bill Kurtis commercials telling us how he's so much faster than Andy Roddick and Sugar Ray Leonard! Here again is a case of AT&T tying itself to another business venture that will decline to nothing in a few years, eclipsed by newer technology and wireless competition willing to implement it.

3. Despite what it says, this sorry behemoth is still wedded to copper - paired wire wireline POTS to residential phone customers. They'll get out of this when the contribution of the business drops below the salvage value from ripping out the wire and selling it as scrap.

4. Don't think Apple is unaware of or will overlook AT&T's anti-customer behavior by trying to prevent iPhone tethering or dragging its feet on MMS. Apple says that its current iPhones are not technically configured to work with other U.S. carriers, but what about the future? Whatever the length of Apple's exclusive carrier agreement with AT&T, you can be sure it's not perpetual. The day will come when that agreement expires, and on that very day, Apple will deploy its newest iPhone capabilities and technologies with whichever U.S. wireless carrier is willing to come to the party. For AT&T to resist the distribution of new Apple capabilities - iPhone notebook tethering being a case in point - is for AT&T to brand itself as a backwards relic, entitled to wearing dunce cap and sitting in the corner of the class.

If you're an investor for the long pull, you want to be loading up on AAPL and getting out of T while you can. It's the difference between a creative organization focused on new opportunities to win customers and a mossbound has-been trying to hold on to businesses that matter less and less in the marketplace.

The reality is that at this stage Apple is enabling AT&T. AT&T feels they can do what they do because the goose that lays the golden egg isn't going anywhere else or doing anything else. It is Apple that insists on making a single phone that uses a single standard. There are plenty of phones that do quad-band and also CDMA/EVDO. You can knock Palm or Blackberry all you want but the reality is that their phones go across multiple vendors and networks.

I'm actually hoping Apple stays with AT&T for a bit more. Apple's adoption of a walled garden for the iPhone is making AT&T think they can do the same thing and in the meantime they are forcing competitors open much more than they ever were in the past. Give this six more months and GPS will be included free on every other network and phone while being separate and expensive on the iPhone ala MMS messaging.

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post #101 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Do you really need turn-by-turn directions to get from CA to NY? Just get on I-80 and drive East till you see the GW bridge. Well, OK, the whole I-95 thing at the end could be confusing to some, I guess.

Are you familiar with the current crop of GPS units? Its not just the turn-by-turn between your starting and ending points, but being able to know where gas stations, restaurants, rest stops, stores, etc. are along the way. Not to mention advance warning for the inevitable detours during what's known as "construction season" in the more temperate parts of the country (which I-80 goes right through).

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post #102 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Sprint's nav is free because Sprint is desperate and barely alive. I had Sprint nav when it was $10 a month. Both Sprint and Palm are on their last, desperate gasp. They are not competing with Apple and AT&T. They are competing with the grim reaper.


I agree with this statement, there is a reason why certain carriers (see sprint and cricket) have a rediculous plan with everything but the kitchen sink included. This is because THEIR coverage is weak. Im sorry but i would rather shell out the extra coin for good coverage . I have had sprint in the past as a work phone and it was the worst experience. A lot of my calls were dropped on my route and data? fuggettaboutit! I have had no problems with at&t at all and i travel through the mountains and various other parts of the country. and as for the pre? im sorry but i do not see folks switching from at&t to go to sprint to just get the pre, but i do see a lot of people switching from sprint to get the iphone.
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post #103 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The reality is that at this stage Apple is enabling AT&T.

"Enabling" perhaps. I kinda like the word "tolerating."

As to Apple's position that it's sticking with a single wireless standard for iPhones, I'd bet that at this very moment they have fully functioning lab versions that work on practically every standard out there - present and anticipated. Apple has the cash and resources to plow billions into R&D, and they're not the kind who allow themselves to be boxed in to any single technology when there are good alternatives.

So what happens when AT&T's exclusivity agreement is up? Apple will be in the driver's seat to deal with additional wireless carriers. With its huge installed base of iPhone users, AT&T will make whatever concessions it needs to hold on to subscribers. Apple will have the leverage of the most advanced, flexible and desirable products in the marketplace, and it won't be pretty for AT&T. Don't think that Apple is ignoring the marketplace's gripes about AT&T. Apple just isn't talking about what it plans to do.

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post #104 of 129
Way to go, was this what you were doing for five months, instead of perhaps getting MMS and Tethering all ready to go? way to go HOP TO IT! Its pretty embarrassing for Apple to have a carrier not have all its features ready to go, especially its the home carrier of where the iPhone was originated..Gold star to you! \
post #105 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

I'll warn you - this begins a long rant against AT&T

1. AT&T Navigator is a desperate attempt to extract more revenue from iPhone users, serving up an app-styled system that offers little extra value for the $120/year price.

2. So far, AT&T has gotten a pass in the media about its resistance to tethering iPhones to notebooks, thus enabling a truly portable Internet connection for iPhone notebook users.

3. Despite what it says, this sorry behemoth is still wedded to copper - paired wire wireline POTS to residential phone customers. They'll get out of this when the contribution of the business drops below the salvage value from ripping out the wire and selling it as scrap.

4. Don't think Apple is unaware of or will overlook AT&T's anti-customer behavior by trying to prevent iPhone tethering or dragging its feet on MMS.

If you're an investor for the long pull, you want to be loading up on AAPL and getting out of T while you can. It's the difference between a creative organization focused on new opportunities to win customers and a mossbound has-been trying to hold on to businesses that matter less and less in the marketplace.

(1) Every single carrier charges the same $10 a month and $3 a day subscription for TBT navigation --- it's a massive success so far.

(2) Every other carriers in the world are charging for iphone tethering --- that's why you don't see newspaper reporters complaining about it.

(3) Carriers only have so much money they can spend on infrastructure. AT&T spent many more bucks on subsidizing the iphone to people like you, so they can't match Verizon's spending on 3G network builds and fiber optics network.

(4) Other carriers around the world are charging twice (even 4x) the money per MMS than SMS. AT&T is charging MMS the same price as SMS. And as I said in (2), every iphone carriers in the world are charging for iphone tethering.

(5) There is no comparision between investing in AT&T or Apple stock. If you want to compare, then do a comparision of AT&T and Verizon stock.
post #106 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

There is no comparision between investing in AT&T or Apple stock.

If nothing else, I'll certainly agree with you on that!

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post #107 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

If nothing else, I'll certainly agree with you on that!

Yes, AT&T is a safe utility stock with safe yields on stable dividend payouts. Apple is a much higher risk tech stock that doesn't pay any dividends at all.
post #108 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Yes, AT&T is a safe utility stock with safe yields on stable dividend payouts. Apple is a much higher risk tech stock that doesn't pay any dividends at all.

Yeah, okay. Tell me all about safe yields and stable dividends. Try telling me about total return. Last fall I sold T and bought AAPL. Care to guess since then what's provided better return and what's sucking wind?

The old paradigms about communications utilities are no longer sacrosanct, as phone consumers continually migrate away from regulated wireline monopolies in an increasingly competitive wireless world. POTS is no longer as large or secure a revenue and earnings generator for stable dividends, and the steady deterioration in AT&T's share price and market cap to book value reflects its overall loss of investors' confidence.

Let's revisit this subject in a year and see where AT&T stands then with respect to those "safe" yields. Moreover, watch what happens to this "safe utility" when it loses its iPhone exclusivity.

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post #109 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

Yeah, okay. Tell me all about safe yields and stable dividends. Try telling me about total return. Last fall I sold T and bought AAPL. Care to guess since then what's provided better return and what's sucking wind?

I never said that AAPL is a bad investment. I said that it is a higher risk investment that cannot be compared with a low risk, low growth, stable utility stock.

You are basically comparing two entirely different animals --- like putting money in a safe bank deposit vs. buying penny stocks.
post #110 of 129
The iPhone did not have TBT at the time, we were using Google Maps. Furthermore no we didn't take a direct route. We stopped in different cities to see friends/family along the way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Do you really need turn-by-turn directions to get from CA to NY? Just get on I-80 and drive East till you see the GW bridge. Well, OK, the whole I-95 thing at the end could be confusing to some, I guess.
post #111 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

I'll warn you - this begins a long rant against AT&T, ignited by their Navigator announcement and the recognition that this bloated relic in the communications industry still has it all wrong strategically, and may be in even more trouble in the long-run than Microsoft.

Within all of AT&T's faults you have to remember they are a big part of the reason the iPhone exists. Apple pitched the idea to them without a prototype. AT&T had faith that Apple would create a great enough device that they went along with Apple's unusual stipulations for how the device would be carried and sold. No other phone maker had been able to make such a deal.



Quote:
AT&T Navigator is a desperate attempt to extract more revenue from iPhone users, serving up an app-styled system that offers little extra value for the $120/year price.

Why shouldn't AT&T offer it's services? Every mobile carrier around the world offers extended services to extract more revenue. In many cases the customer is locked into the carriers service. In this case their is a choice to accept AT&T's service.

Quote:
So far, AT&T has gotten a pass in the media about its resistance to tethering iPhones to notebooks, thus enabling a truly portable Internet connection for iPhone notebook users.

AT&T hasn't gotten a pass for this at all, at Apple's conference the media laughed about ATT not supporting tethering. The reality is that in places like New York their network is already at capacity, tethering would would be a disaster. AT&T is likely waiting to complete network upgrades that will add additional bandwidth for tethering.
post #112 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

"Enabling" perhaps. I kinda like the word "tolerating."

As to Apple's position that it's sticking with a single wireless standard for iPhones, I'd bet that at this very moment they have fully functioning lab versions that work on practically every standard out there - present and anticipated. Apple has the cash and resources to plow billions into R&D, and they're not the kind who allow themselves to be boxed in to any single technology when there are good alternatives.

So what happens when AT&T's exclusivity agreement is up? Apple will be in the driver's seat to deal with additional wireless carriers. With its huge installed base of iPhone users, AT&T will make whatever concessions it needs to hold on to subscribers. Apple will have the leverage of the most advanced, flexible and desirable products in the marketplace, and it won't be pretty for AT&T. Don't think that Apple is ignoring the marketplace's gripes about AT&T. Apple just isn't talking about what it plans to do.

I have no doubt that you are 100% correct with regard to Apple and their R&D. However Apple really does get very stubborn about certain things and also convinces themselves that certain niches bring the cash and for whatever reason, they won't leave them. I guess what I'm talking about is the premise of every single xMac thread ever created. Apple doesn't think a reasonable consumer tower will make money and so despite the ease with which they could create it, it doesn't exist.

This feels very much the same. Apple enjoys what they get from AT&T and they are certainly making money on it, and even though you would think having a couple more vendors available would radically broaden their market (just like the xMac would) for whatever reason, they might not do it.

That would suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

(1) Every single carrier charges the same $10 a month and $3 a day subscription for TBT navigation --- it's a massive success so far.

(2) Every other carriers in the world are charging for iphone tethering --- that's why you don't see newspaper reporters complaining about it.

(3) Carriers only have so much money they can spend on infrastructure. AT&T spent many more bucks on subsidizing the iphone to people like you, so they can't match Verizon's spending on 3G network builds and fiber optics network.

(4) Other carriers around the world are charging twice (even 4x) the money per MMS than SMS. AT&T is charging MMS the same price as SMS. And as I said in (2), every iphone carriers in the world are charging for iphone tethering.

(5) There is no comparision between investing in AT&T or Apple stock. If you want to compare, then do a comparision of AT&T and Verizon stock.

I see your points with tethering but many companies are now eithing including or starting to bundle GPS services for a cost lower than $10 a month. The smart company is going to be the one that creates the $.99 cent value meal or combo meal of cellular services. Those things can really add up. VZW has visual voicemail available. If they made it a buck per month, per phone, most people would probably add it without much thought just on impulse. I doubt most people use GPS that much in terms of day to day data usage. Make it an impulse buy. $1 a day or $3 per month per phone.

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post #113 of 129
Competition is forcing VZ to alter it's tyranical practices.

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Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yes and when I get my GPS app included for $20 a month and you have to pay $30 a month for data and $10 a month more for this app, you are being charged a lot more money. BTW, I looked into what I suspect you were talking about with regard to Verizon. They've been less than perfect in the past but have opened their network to included GPS services within smartphones and are even releasing new ROMs to enable the service within previously released phones. They've already done this for the Storm and Samsung Omnia i910.
post #114 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I have no doubt that you are 100% correct with regard to Apple and their R&D. However Apple really does get very stubborn about certain things and also convinces themselves that certain niches bring the cash and for whatever reason, they won't leave them. I guess what I'm talking about is the premise of every single xMac thread ever created. Apple doesn't think a reasonable consumer tower will make money and so despite the ease with which they could create it, it doesn't exist.

What do you mean by niche? GSM is the dominant world standard, CDMA is the niche.

As far as the Xmac, notebooks are far outselling desktops in number and generate more revenue per unit sold.

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VZW has visual voicemail available. If they made it a buck per month, per phone, most people would probably add it without much thought just on impulse.

Visual Voicemail is included with the iPhone. You aren't up in arms about VZ charging extra for it?
post #115 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

DIT: The dash mount just improves the GPS signal - the app will function fine without it (at least that's what they said during the keynote)

Aha. So TomTom is basically just providing their UI and maps... I'd expect them to sell this app for about $50 then. They have to keep their price up there or they will cannibalize their own hardware sales.

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post #116 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Aha. So TomTom is basically just providing their UI and maps... I'd expect them to sell this app for about $50 then. They have to keep their price up there or they will cannibalize their own hardware sales.

So what if they cannibalize their hardware sales?

TomTom now owns 1 of the 2 map makers of the world --- it's much better for them to sit back and collect their king's ransom from their duopolistic position.
post #117 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Competition is forcing VZ to alter it's tyranical practices.

That is better than competition apparently making them adopt tyrannical practices ala AT&T.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What do you mean by niche? GSM is the dominant world standard, CDMA is the niche.

Yes well regardless of what the world adopts turning your nose up at the 140 million customers within the U.S. who use both Verizon and Sprint is not good business. Competitors like Blackberry essentually have all these customers to themselves with no competition. Sometimes you have to play well with others. Apple promotes MS Office even while offering a competitor. They should be able to manage to offer a phone with both standards in it.

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As far as the Xmac, notebooks are far outselling desktops in number and generate more revenue per unit sold.

You keep trying to make it an OR question when it is an AND question. No one has to make a choice between CDMA or GSM. They can support both. Apple doesn't have to choose between laptops and an xMac, they can easily make both. They can make plenty of profits and have even more sales from all these categories.

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Visual Voicemail is included with the iPhone. You aren't up in arms about VZ charging extra for it?

My reasoning is quite consistent. It would fit right within that value proposition I mentioned that makes choices almost impulse items. Visual voicemail costs $3 a month and you have a choice about that $3.

So let's add it up. I spend $20 a month to get email, data/internet, vcast, and gps. I can add VVM for $3 for a total of $23.

Or I could go the AT&T route which INCLUDES VVM (which you noted isn't free as a bundle when the circumstances were reversed) and spend $30 for the data plus $10 for GPS.

Plus I have two phones in my household so I could spend $46 or... $80.

I'm supposed to be crying over spending $46? Better still I don't care about visualizing the listening of my voice messages so I spend... $40 instead of $80 and... I'm supposed to be crying.

You are hilarious.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #118 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

So what if they cannibalize their hardware sales?

TomTom now owns 1 of the 2 map makers of the world --- it's much better for them to sit back and collect their king's ransom from their duopolistic position.

If you have a lot of hardware in inventory, it's an important reason to want to avoid cannibalization.

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post #119 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

That is better than competition apparently making them adopt tyrannical practices ala AT&T.

What AT&T tyrannical practices do you speak of?


Quote:
Yes well regardless of what the world adopts turning your nose up at the 140 million customers within the U.S. who use both Verizon and Sprint is not good business. Competitors like Blackberry essentually have all these customers to themselves with no competition. Sometimes you have to play well with others. Apple promotes MS Office even while offering a competitor. They should be able to manage to offer a phone with both standards in it.

CDMA is on its way out. Sprint and Verizon will phase it out over the next few years.

Apple decided to forgo 140 million potential customers to support nearly 4 billion potential customers.

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You keep trying to make it an OR question when it is an AND question. No one has to make a choice between CDMA or GSM. They can support both. Apple doesn't have to choose between laptops and an xMac, they can easily make both. They can make plenty of profits and have even more sales from all these categories.

Apple could fully support both. But there is a reason why they don't. Its a sound business strategy to pick one and focus your finite resources inon making the best product in that category. This strategy is working great for Apple.


Quote:
So let's add it up. I spend $20 a month to get email, data/internet, vcast, and gps. I can add VVM for $3 for a total of $23.

Or I could go the AT&T route which INCLUDES VVM (which you noted isn't free as a bundle when the circumstances were reversed) and spend $30 for the data plus $10 for GPS.

GPS does come with the $30, you have the option of paying for another GPS product if you so choose.

Here is how I see the value break down, I pay $30 to get:
  • push email that fully supports HTML5, reads Word/PDF/Excel/PowerPoint documents
  • unlimited data with a web browser that is HTML5 compliant
  • unlimited access to dozens of media services
  • thousands of 3rd party apps designed by the best software developers in the industry
  • google maps
post #120 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What AT&T tyrannical practices do you speak of?

Add it up, consider the level of coverage and service and figure it out for yourself. I already gave you my personal example.

Quote:
CDMA is on its way out. Sprint and Verizon will phase it out over the next few years.

Apple decided to forgo 140 million potential customers to support nearly 4 billion potential customers.

Everything is on the way out. Apple support 2G and it is on the way out. Do you think they will support much of what is on the iPhone now in a couple years? Do you think they are going to be sweating 2 mp cameras for example and god help them if the only display they support in two years is 320x200.

Everything is on the way out. Considering Apple has twenty million or so in sales for the iPhone worldwide, what makes you think they should scoff at a potential new and untapped market so large. Maybe including entire segments of the world that are undeveloped and don't even use cell phones might make you feel better, but doesn't change market dynamics. Other companies are catching up quick and aren't artificially limiting themselves.

Quote:
Apple could fully support both. But there is a reason why they don't. Its a sound business strategy to pick one and focus your finite resources inon making the best product in that category. This strategy is working great for Apple.

The reason they don't must be known to you and magic fairies. Apple is no longer a start up in the cell phone game. They are not a start up with limited resources or money. Claiming that you can just keep doing something until it fails is the worse kind of business planning. Many reviews for the GS note that the hardware is nothing new, the specs are finally coming up to not so far behind and the software was basically about adding what was missing from the iPhone compared to other smart phones (TBT GPS, MMS, copy/paste, etc.) Apple basically lucked into the app store since it clearly wasn't planned at the beginning but all their competitors will be there very soon.

The other point is that the competitors aren't just catching up but are moving at a much faster rate than one release a year. Palm has already had two updates. Their app store will be out in three months, not twelve. Palm Eon will be out in a couple months, not a couple years. The next version of the Storm will be out within a couple months and several other models have been upgraded as well.

Others are doing more with less in shorter time-frames. Apple has to respond.

Quote:
GPS does come with the $30, you have the option of paying for another GPS product if you so choose.

Here is how I see the value break down, I pay $30 to get:

* push email that fully supports HTML5, reads Word/PDF/Excel/PowerPoint documents
* unlimited data with a web browser that is HTML5 compliant
* unlimited access to dozens of media services
* thousands of 3rd party apps designed by the best software developers in the industry
* google maps

Listing everything that comes with the data plan is ridiculous. It is like declaring that because you pay your electric bill, everything that plugs into a wall is a feature of that bill.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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