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Apple has Psystar's lawsuit stay lifted; Palm Pre unhurt by iPhone - Page 2

post #41 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidT View Post

Well, we'll see how things go when they release it in Europe, maybe they'll use the same launch strategy, maybe not. Should shed some light on the situation.

I don't remember if Palms have been popular there or not. That would matter too.
post #42 of 95
Palm Pre sales are a joke. 1100 stores selling up to 100,000 is a joke.
post #43 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't remember if Palms have been popular there or not. That would matter too.

I have no figures at hand, but they were visible in public life and i know a good few people who had one.
post #44 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, that article is a lark.

With all the agony Steve is going thru, it must be so hard to have Rube turn out to be a lying, backstabbing, greedy SOB. We should all root for a speedy Post for "Pre".
post #45 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp1 View Post

With all the agony Steve is going thru, it must be so hard to have Rube turn out to be a lying, backstabbing, greedy SOB. We should all root for a speedy Post for "Pre".

Why would you think that about him? Executives leave companies all the time. If he got a good offer and a good challenge, why shouldn't he have taken it?
post #46 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

why would you think that about him? Executives leave companies all the time. If he got a good offer and a good challenge, why shouldn't he have taken it?

well lets see? Respect, loyalty, ethics, insider information, having millions already!
post #47 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp1 View Post

well lets see? Respect, loyalty, ethics, insider information, having millions already!

That's just silly! Since when is "having millions" reason to turn down a better-paying job. He took off a year between jobs which would satisfy his non-compete agreement with Apple. If he is suspected of using Apple trade secrets to help Palm, we will likely see some legal action from Apple.

Respect? Loyalty? Apparently you still work for your first employer.
post #48 of 95
I wish Pre well, and think it's great for the iPhone - which is a clearly superior product, in my view - to have some competition (Disclaimer: I own Palm stock; couldn't resist a small purchase at the really low price a couple of months ago).

The real story here is, iPhone launch/sales do not seem to have been affected much by Pre. It leads me to think that it's Android et. al that should be worried, if at all, by the intro of a physical keyboard-based competitor such as Pre.
post #49 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp1 View Post

well lets see? Respect, loyalty, ethics, insider information, having millions already!

I don't get that at all.

Respect. What makes you think he doesn't respect Jobs, or anyone else there?

Loyalty. You're kidding, right? He helped to make Apple successful. How does loyalty work? Oh yeah, it goes both ways.

ethics. What do you mean. He left Apple after years of working there, and contributing significantly. He fulfilled his obligations.

insider information. What information is that exactly? That Apple announced to the world that they were coming out with a phone?

having millions already. Then I suppose Jobs should have retired after leaving Apple.

Nothing you said holds up. After all, if any of that were true for him, what about Jobs himself? He started a computer company that was trying to compete with Apple. You could use all those words against him as well. It's not as though NEXT didn't use many ideas that were started at Apple.
post #50 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Surely there is at least 100,000 or so iPhone/Apple haters out there. Right?

We ended up buying the Android phone
post #51 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't get that at all.
"Nothing you said holds up. After all, if any of that were true for him, what about Jobs himself? He started a computer company that was trying to compete with Apple. You could use all those words against him as well. It's not as though NEXT didn't use many ideas that were started at Apple.

"

Oh, I give up. You're right. All those old things don't matter anymore. Let's just be good neighbors and take advantage of anyone whenever we feel like it. Making a profit is where it's at.

PS - NEXT was not created to compete with Apple-NEXT was, and still is Apple. NEXTSTEP is OSX. The 68020 based original Mac ii became the NEXT. Apple's best people went with Steve, leaving Scully and his razor blade genius CEO to lead the company away from it's roots and clone it with too many confusing models. Steve loyally returned to HIS company and here we are today, not having to be forced to use a stupid PC and do everything thrice.
Now have nice day and don't bother putting your cigarette in the ash tray. There are little people hired to clean that up for you-just throw it out the window, that's what everybody else does!
post #52 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp1 View Post

"

Oh, I give up. You're right. All those old things don't matter anymore. Let's just be good neighbors and take advantage of anyone whenever we feel like it. Making a profit is where it's at.

PS - NEXT was not created to compete with Apple-NEXT was, and still is Apple. NEXTSTEP is OSX. The 68020 based original Mac ii became the NEXT. Apple's best people went with Steve, leaving Scully and his razor blade genius CEO to lead the company away from it's roots and clone it with too many confusing models. Steve loyally returned to HIS company and here we are today, not having to be forced to use a stupid PC and do everything thrice.
Now have nice day and don't bother putting your cigarette in the ash tray. There are little people hired to clean that up for you-just throw it out the window, that's what everybody else does!

You are perverted!
post #53 of 95
So all those Pre numbers are just guesses?
post #54 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You are perverted!

Other than NeXTTime, what part of NeXTSTEP was inspired or "stolen" from Mac OS 7.x?

I'd love to read it seeing as I worked for both.
post #55 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

I guess it's nice to know that Pre is doing ok. I would not call a couple hundred thousand of these phones rolling around significant in any way, however.

Right now, the Pre's biggest enemy is not Apple, it is Palm.

all of us need the pre to do exceptional. In the long run that means better data prices, incuded gps and better prices fir us iPhone users.

So go Palm Pre.
Good née coming soon.

TyJfaopahtonadwlysvmphhbagumslhcpaaou heel olaoiAwtuwmfs
post #56 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

No, perhaps the iPhone hasn't hurt the Pre.

But has the Pre done enough to save Palm and Sprint? That's a different issue entirely.

We'll see.

Wasn't it said somewhere that Pre is to be Sprint exclusive only for half a year or so? New Zealand's Vodafone is expected to offer it by the end of a year (other Vodafone networks as well - presumably), so that kind of fits in Sprint-exclusive expiration theory.

Additionally, Palm people were saying they are planing multiple devices with WebOS, which fits in their existing business strategy. I'm pretty sure we'll see cheaper, Centro-like smartphone with smaller screen and fixed (non-sliding) keyboard as well, maybe virtual keyboard iPhone clone, too. Reinvention of Foleo based on WebOS, maybe. I wouldn't be surprised even if Pre remains Sprint exclusive, with different models for other networks.

All in all, Pre alone might not be enough to save Palm, but I'd be really surprised to see Pre remaining alone. Palm has hiked a nice wave with Pre and Jon looks capable of riding waves rather than drowning in them...
post #57 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Wasn't it said somewhere that Pre is to be Sprint exclusive only for half a year or so? New Zealand's Vodafone is expected to offer it by the end of a year (other Vodafone networks as well - presumably), so that kind of fits in Sprint-exclusive expiration theory.

Additionally, Palm people were saying they are planing multiple devices with WebOS, which fits in their existing business strategy. I'm pretty sure we'll see cheaper, Centro-like smartphone with smaller screen and fixed (non-sliding) keyboard as well, maybe virtual keyboard iPhone clone, too. Reinvention of Foleo based on WebOS, maybe. I wouldn't be surprised even if Pre remains Sprint exclusive, with different models for other networks.

All in all, Pre alone might not be enough to save Palm, but I'd be really surprised to see Pre remaining alone. Palm has hiked a nice wave with Pre and Jon looks capable of riding waves rather than drowning in them...

Do you own a pre ?? It was reported that 8 months delay for a full release of e pre.

You might want to wait on the pre. Seems like a ton of them have cracked screens. Click on my sig link to view cracks .

Good luck

9
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post #58 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

So all those Pre numbers are just guesses?

Exactly, which makes me wonder why Palm itself hasn't stated the actual sales. Since we're working with guesstimates anyway, I'm going to guess that Palm hasn't released sales figures because they feel the numbers would hurt their both their marketing and stock price. Or to put it another way, wouldn't releasing huge sales numbers help keep the Pre hype going? The way the "million 3GSs" press release kept iPhone in the news? To me it appears that Palm is disappointed with their launch.
post #59 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

I love my Palm Pre; it's finally what I've been looking for in a phone without having to sell my soul to AT&T.

Yep, AT&T is the main reason I don't have an iPhone. I love the device; it's a great phone! But the crappy data network and expensive service means I've stayed away.

I hope the iPhone eventually comes to other carriers and the Pre as well. This whole concept of a phone being completely locked down to one carrier is hurting the industry and making things frustrating for those of us who like a specific phone but hate the carrier it's on.

I'm also glad the iPhone finally has real competition in the Pre, and to a lesser extent, Android.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

The big question is whether the Pre can sustain its sales figures. If I'm reading this right, they're saying it sold about 50,000 the first weekend then another 50,000 through the rest of the week. So it looks like there are a lot of early adopters. A lot depends on who's left after all these people have bought their Pres. Will sales flatten out, decline slowly or go into a steep nosedive?

Me, I'm waiting for the Verizon LTE iPhone. With tethering. No way in Hell I'll ever deal with AT&T again.


Me too .My hatred runs so deep for ATT that I will never do business with them again .

When verizon gets the iphone you will see some incredible sales numbers. Makes the glossy scandal pale in comparison

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post #60 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You are perverted!

You know that guy had a point . Both sides of the loyalty/ethics issue have their valid place in society.

But mel your response was so devastating that this guy lost it.

Talking about ashtrays and stuff ?
Funny how things can turn on a dime .


This is a great debating place .

9
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post #61 of 95
Good news for the Pre. Still too early to tell how well it will do long term but I hope it succeeds because it's a nice phone with great software. Apple needs some competition.
post #62 of 95
Sprint and Palm Pre both su*k.
post #63 of 95
If you have problems typing with your thumbs you should try holding it so your thumbs are coming from the side of the phone rather than the bottom (thus moving the "tap zone" from the large pad of your thumb to the edge of the pad of your thumb).
post #64 of 95
This whole Palm story is an excellent example of spin. If the Pre's numbers are so great, Palm would be shouting them from the rooftops. The fact that these comparatively small sales figures represent the best that Sprint or Palm have ever done is a bad sign in this day and age. Palm made a real mistake by pitting their device against the iPhone. They should have pitted themselves against the G1. Against that, they would look quite successful. If life for Sprint and Palm means being competitive with the iPhone, then both companies are dead.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #65 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

This whole Palm story is an excellent example of spin. If the Pre's numbers are so great, Palm would be shouting them from the rooftops. The fact that these comparatively small sales figures represent the best that Sprint or Palm have ever done is a bad sign in this day and age. Palm made a real mistake by pitting their device against the iPhone. They should have pitted themselves against the G1. Against that, they would look quite successful. If life for Sprint and Palm means being competitive with the iPhone, then both companies are dead.

Interesting point. I think Palm might have been afflicted with the "iPod Killer" curse. The unlucky recipient of that title usually ends up doing the exact opposite.

What will really tell the tale is Palm's dvelopment cycle, how their "app store" can attract developers (mostly away from the iPhone), and whether they can be th "first" in implementing something truly interesting (or completely redefining a design paradigm) vis-a-vis the iPhone.
post #66 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Palm Pre sales are a joke. 1100 stores selling up to 100,000 is a joke.

What's the measure of success? If Palm is selling every unit they have manufactured so far, their profits are up, and that can be considered successful. Heck even the Apple fanboys around here point to Apple's profits as a measure of success.

The number of people with a Pre right now are enough to drive the success of webOS as well as draw attention to potential developers.
post #67 of 95
The Pre doesn't have to kill the iPhone to be successful. It's unlikely it could even if that was its goal. Which it isn't. It doesn't even have to sell as well as the iPhone. It just has to make Palm and Sprint a profit.

There is plenty of room in the market for the Pre and it's a good thing to have because it does a lot of stuff right. Don't forget that the iPhone might not even be its biggest competitor, that could be Blackberries or Android phones.

The endless comparison between the Pre and the iPhone is stupid.
post #68 of 95
PALM PRE' PIC's
http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/sho...=188829&page=5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Interesting point. I think Palm might have been afflicted with the "iPod Killer" curse. The unlucky recipient of that title usually ends up doing the exact opposite.

What will really tell the tale is Palm's dvelopment cycle, how their "app store" can attract developers (mostly away from the iPhone), and whether they can be th "first" in implementing something truly interesting (or completely redefining a design paradigm) vis-a-vis the iPhone.

<A note for all you future pre users.>

With a great legacy palm had with the very loyal treo clients Palm should have had no problems selling the hell out of pre..

<Cracked screens >

Well its to early to say the PRE is a very or a little shoddy plastic phone, if the cracked screen issues remain below 5 percent then they should. The in-accurate poll has it at 13% percent cracked. We don't really know how many PRE's have cracked or bubbled screens , We don't know how bad sprint is screwing there PRE clients. But we do know it's not good for there customer base. <<
PALM PRE' PIC's
http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/sho...=188829&page=5 >>

<UPSET CLIENTS >

AT THE Pre central website link is below . MANY PEOPLE ARE SCARED AND LIVID, After 30 days you cannot return the PRE. For all you pie in the sky Pre lovers, Well READ UP and see what's what before your state your true love for the APP-LESS Palm PRE..

<SALESs>

The NYT reports today that 190.000 pre have sold and 2 to 3 million for the year is predicated. The writer goes on to say hat palm needs to sell many more to survive.

<WHERE THE PLAM PRE MAY FIT >

What most smart phones can do . A lot of things, Maybe Too many things. So many things that many clients will never use or can;t figure out how to use all those apps or functions << Don't worry pre peoples you have 9 apps to master>> .
So for that reason alone a person with limited use or low brain power<kidding> may just be best suited for the Pre. So Pre has or had a niche . A place for it to grow and thrive. Yet The palm PRE has had a couple of stumbles already. No music store and pissed off clients when itunes upgrades. Bubbles and cracked screens. NO apps . And now in living color a $99 dollar 3G iphone with 50000 apps and a free shuffle to boot.

<< FILL IN BLANK >>
I have read so many glowing and hopeful reports about the PRE. So maybe in 6 -9 months things will work out for the PRE CLIENTS.

Now if we exchange the word APPLE for the word PRE here when we talk about cracked Screens the world wide out cry would be amazing. Remember those tiny lines on the cube !! How much more leeway will the pre get ???

<< GO READ >>
Go visit the supplied link . YOU will hear horror and love stories about the PRE
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post #69 of 95
Reading the stories from people is fine and everything, but don't stop there. Go to a Sprint store and try one out for a good 30 minutes to an hour.

The thing about horror and love stories for any product is it inevitably happens for EVERYTHING. The iphone still has horror stories from people.
post #70 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketothep View Post

I am choosing the Pre over the iPhone for mainly one reason... a real keyboard. I use my phone for email and text messaging a lot and the virtual keyboard is just too slow and unreliable (yes I have tried it... it pails in comparison to physical keys).

The iPhone is obviously a great device that works for a lot of people... I'm not one of them. Why Apple seems to have the same disdain for a physical keyboard as they did for the 2-button mouse, I have no idea. But if they had a version with a physical keyboard, or if they would at least allow drivers for third-party bluetooth keyboards, I probably would have bought one a long time ago.

Sure some people prefer a physical keyboard to a virtual one. But admit it's just a personal preference and not that physical keyboards are somehow faster. It's plain physics - it takes more time and effort to press and release a rubber button than it does to lightly touch a smooth piece of glass. I used a Treo for years - and after spending the time to adjust to the iPhone virtual keyboard I type far faster (and with less fatigue) than I ever did on a Treo. If you prefer a physical keyboard that's fine - I'll even accept the rare benefit of being able to type without looking - but don't try and make it about speed or efficiency. Just admit you don't care to spend the time to learn something new and faster and leave it at that.

As for Apple's disdain - in my opinion what they disdain is fat. Wasteful flub. Apple follows a design principle that efficiency and power can be elegant. A touchscreen is physically faster, technically more flexible and efficient, and visually more elegant than physical buttons. Eventually all phones will probably only have touchscreen keyboards and people will look back and wonder why it took so long to shed the primitive-bulk of rubber nubs as keys.

Sidenote - It took the smartphone experts at Palm until 2009 to design something as elegant as the smooth stone-like Pre; meanwhile Apple had long been making a smoother capsule mouse which is touch-sensitive for both left and right-clicks and squeeze clicks. When even your mouse looks as good (and strikingly similar) as another company's smartphone - you know you're doing something right.

post #71 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

You know the beautiful thing: June 29, 2009, is the two- year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later.

Not true.
A LOT of people will still use the 2.5G phone. There will be more available on EBay, and I think they will be snapped up. In the U.S., as long as the data plan is cheaper and 3G is unavailable everywhere, this thing will be my phone.
post #72 of 95
Pre is probably a bigger threat to Blackberry than the iphone. i have a Sprint BB from work, and i'd probably choose a Pre if I had a choice.

RIM's OS needs a huge overhaul
post #73 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Reading the stories from people is fine and everything, but don't stop there. Go to a Sprint store and try one out for a good 30 minutes to an hour.

The thing about horror and love stories for any product is it inevitably happens for EVERYTHING. The iphone still has horror stories from people.

Did you read ?? and see the pics of cracked phones .???

Yes i did go to a sprint store . The pre felt ... like plastic tp me.

but it seems like a great phone. .if i lived in an iphone-less world and sprint was really verizon i would get the PRE INA HEART BEAT .

peace

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post #74 of 95
Why is this thread in CH and not iPhone forum?
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #75 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Did you read ?? and see the pics of cracked phones .???

Yes i did go to a sprint store . The pre felt ... like plastic tp me.

but it seems like a great phone. .if i lived in an iphone-less world and sprint was really verizon i would get the PRE INA HEART BEAT .

peace

9

Yeah I've read people's horror stories. (Still not as bad as the horror stories from Sprint's Samsung Instinct fiasco lol.) The screen breaking is not acceptable. I think we can see where they skimped in order to turn a profit.

I played with one in the store for about 30 minutes. I didn't like it. It has potential, but every time I brought up the main menu by sliding my thumb upward from the bottom, it extended the keyboard slightly. That would get annoying quick.
post #76 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

I love my Palm Pre; it's finally what I've been looking for in a phone without having to sell my soul to AT&T.

AT&T does sucks, but, show me any phone company that doesn't. They are all barely legal scams if you ask me, just like credit card companies. They prey on their customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketothep View Post

I am choosing the Pre over the iPhone for mainly one reason... a real keyboard. I use my phone for email and text messaging a lot and the virtual keyboard is just too slow and unreliable (yes I have tried it... it pails in comparison to physical keys).

That's interesting, because the keys on the iPhone virtual keyboard are larger and a lot easier to hit (in landscape mode) than those horrible tiny little plastic keys on the Pre. I tried it out and couldn't believe how tiny and close-together those keys were on the Pre. Awful! And the problem is, you can't change it or make it context-sensitive like the iPhone's keyboard.

I'll take the iPhone keyboard any day over those flimsy, cheap plastic keyboards designed for a toddler's fingers.
post #77 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Other than NeXTTime, what part of NeXTSTEP was inspired or "stolen" from Mac OS 7.x?

I'd love to read it seeing as I worked for both.

The entire concept of a GUI. Using the motorola processor.

It didn't have to be the same at the coding level to take the basic concepts.

I'n not saying it as a criticizm, just as a response to the post about Rubinstein.
post #78 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

You know that guy had a point . Both sides of the loyalty/ethics issue have their valid place in society.

But mel your response was so devastating that this guy lost it.

Talking about ashtrays and stuff ?
Funny how things can turn on a dime .


This is a great debating place .

9

I'm certainly all for ethical behavior. I worked very hard while in business to be ethical.

But his was a fanboy type of reaction. He just can't stand the idea that someone who worked at Apple could possibly then go and work for a competitor without thinking of him as a traitor. That's a dangerous concept. Did he think that way about the people Apple hired away from other firms? I'd love to know that.
post #79 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

If you have problems typing with your thumbs you should try holding it so your thumbs are coming from the side of the phone rather than the bottom (thus moving the "tap zone" from the large pad of your thumb to the edge of the pad of your thumb).

I found, very early, that your thumbs rotate when moved back and forth. so when your thumbs are pointing towards the center of the keyboard, the outside part is down. When they are pointing towards the edges of the keyboard, the inner parts are pointing down.

That means that a different part of your thumb actually hits the keyboard, and you tend to overshoot the key you're aiming at. In the center, with your right thumb, you would tend to hit the "H" instead of the "J", and at the edge, you would tend to hit the "L" instead of the "K".

You can test this by putting your hands in the position they would be in while holding the phone and typing. You'll notice your thumbs rotate. Everyone's different of course, but its a natural movement from the way the joints are built.

I asked some others about that, and after thinking about it, they concurred. I just shift my aim to compensate, and all is well. Because of the width, I don't find that problem in landscape mode.
post #80 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What's the measure of success? If Palm is selling every unit they have manufactured so far, their profits are up, and that can be considered successful. Heck even the Apple fanboys around here point to Apple's profits as a measure of success.

The number of people with a Pre right now are enough to drive the success of webOS as well as draw attention to potential developers.

I was reading about that. It's was said that Palm might sell about 2.5 million in the year, but that won't be enough to make them profitable.

Quote:
Mr. Coster estimates that Palm has shipped close to 180,000 devices in the two weeks since the product first went on sale and could reach as many as 2.5 million in the fiscal year ending in May 2010. But that would not be enough to make the company profitable, he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/te...4bhCaAThBJzqag

This would have to be a monster hit for them to succeed long term, unless they're bought up by a much larger firm. How much more money can Elevation Partners invest in them?
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