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Apple has Psystar's lawsuit stay lifted; Palm Pre unhurt by iPhone - Page 3

post #81 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Reading the stories from people is fine and everything, but don't stop there. Go to a Sprint store and try one out for a good 30 minutes to an hour.

The thing about horror and love stories for any product is it inevitably happens for EVERYTHING. The iphone still has horror stories from people.

Considering the number of iPhones sold, the number of problems have been very small. Extremely small. When you include the iPod Touches, the number of problems is vanishingly small.

While there will always be people who can manage to crack a large screen device, if the number of iPhone/Touch screens were cracked in the first two weeks relative to the number sold, as we seem to be seeing with the Pre, it would have been headlines on every major outlet, and all of the small ones as well.

We are all aware of that here.

So perhaps there is a wish for the Pre to succeed amongst the media types in the news and web outlets that has kept them from reporting on this so far.
post #82 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post

Not true.
A LOT of people will still use the 2.5G phone. There will be more available on EBay, and I think they will be snapped up. In the U.S., as long as the data plan is cheaper and 3G is unavailable everywhere, this thing will be my phone.

He was just sarcastically reporting the comment made by Palm's erstwhile leader that was refuted by their own legal department a few days later.
post #83 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Yeah I've read people's horror stories. (Still not as bad as the horror stories from Sprint's Samsung Instinct fiasco lol.) The screen breaking is not acceptable. I think we can see where they skimped in order to turn a profit.

I played with one in the store for about 30 minutes. I didn't like it. It has potential, but every time I brought up the main menu by sliding my thumb upward from the bottom, it extended the keyboard slightly. That would get annoying quick.

SADLY the pre is perfect for 2nd tier smartphone people . People who don't need all the bells and whistles./ It fills a great spot in the phone world. MAYBE the pre will evolve into what the treo used to be .AND i pre=dict that the PRE will BE 2 for 1 phone soon.

9
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post #84 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm certainly all for ethical behavior. I worked very hard while in business to be ethical.

But his was a fanboy type of reaction. He just can't stand the idea that someone who worked at Apple could possibly then go and work for a competitor without thinking of him as a traitor. That's a dangerous concept. Did he think that way about the people Apple hired away from other firms? I'd love to know that.


His concept was sound . he just applied in an emo way . fanboy huh lol

I do think that someone should consider to be loyal to his firm within reason. I remember after the Rangers won the Stanley cup . 1/3 of the team left for big contracts else where. I felt f ing betrayed and i still do . Yet i see why they left . Any way he was no match for the grand poo bah !!

peace
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post #85 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

His concept was sound . he just applied in an emo way . fanboy huh lol

I do think that someone should consider to be loyal to his firm within reason. I remember after the Rangers won the Stanley cup . 1/3 of the team left for big contracts else where. I felt f ing betrayed and i still do . Yet i see why they left . Any way he was no match for the grand poo bah !!

peace
9

But by his reasoning, no one could ever leave where they worked because of "loyalty".

Most people at the highest levels of a company want to run a company of their own.

That's why you see the second banana of a large company leave to run some much smaller one.
post #86 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The entire concept of a GUI. Using the motorola processor.

It didn't have to be the same at the coding level to take the basic concepts.

I'n not saying it as a criticizm, just as a response to the post about Rubinstein.

XEROX Parc did the GUI.

Keith Olhfs is the father of NeXTSTEP and the king of GUIs for UNIX Systems light years ahead of the entire industry.

OS/2, Windows, KDE, GNOME, GNUstep, etc., advanced from the NS UI and obviously OS X compromised with the Mac OS Menu System when we merged.

Give me the option to have my Vertical Tear off Windows and I'm in production f'n heaven!

From 1988:



From 1994: NS 3.3

post #87 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


Give me the option to have my Vertical Tear off Windows and I'm in production f'n heaven!

I actually am familiar with this stuff. I was just attempting to show how silly the concept worrying about Rubinstein working for someone else was, with the reasons he gave in his post.

I think we can agree that all of these systems share some concepts while adding their own, and changing others around.
post #88 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverInDoubt View Post

Doesn't surprise me.

I think the vast majority of Pre buyers are folks that are stuck with Sprint, for either business/contractual or geographic/network coverage reasons.

Those folks were waiting for a decent smartphone on Sprint, and now they presumably have one. They weren't choosing between an iPhone and a Pre.

Wrong.. my contract had been up with sprint for 6 months before I bought the pre, I know a couple of people personally who switched to sprint because of the pre.. before you make such prenouncements, you should really state a basis for it. Sprint would be in the best position to know their internal numbers better than you.. if they think their handset sale is result of switchers, i think they are more right than you.. don't you?.
post #89 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Wrong.. my contract had been up with sprint for 6 months before I bought the pre, I know a couple of people personally who switched to sprint because of the pre.. before you make such prenouncements, you should really state a basis for it. Sprint would be in the best position to know their internal numbers better than you.. if they think their handset sale is result of switchers, i think they are more right than you.. don't you?.

But you have to consider that the estimate for the first three weeks of sales is only 180,000 units. While the press is making a big deal about it, because of their sympathy for Palm, that's really a very small number for what is supposed to be a "hit" product as its being called..

So the question is that without the stampede that the iPhone models have caused, just how many of those sales are from Sprint customers, and how many from those moving to Sprint because of it.

In either case, there aren't too many. The iPhone will continue taking away far more users FROM Sprint than the Pre will bring.
post #90 of 95
I don't understand why anyone would expect the 3GS launch to hurt pre sales in any substantial way. The pre appeals to certain demographics, some of why will not overlap with 3GS. One demographic are those that have no intention of buying an iPhone, whether because it doesn't meet their needs, they have a distain for Apple or they just don't want it. Another group are those that are already on Sprint and don't want to switch to get a useable phone. Yet another group might be wannabe technophiles that want to get the newest gadget on the block and the 3GS just seems to pedestrian for their tastes now. I am not saying these groups encompass every pre buyer, but they will cover a sizable number of them. The 3GS launch would have no impact whatsoever on these sales. Combine this with the fact that there just is nowhere near the demand for the pre that there was/is for the iPhone and it makes it a silly call to say it is a surprise that the 3GS launch didn't hurt pre sales.

The pre hasn't launched here yet, but I know of only one person with any intention of even considering a purchase. His comment was "finally, a useable smart phone that can shut up the iPhone fanboies". Alternatively, when the iPhone 3G was announced to be coming to Canada last year, there were dozens I knew that wanted to check them out. A few co-workers bought them at launch and that number has at least tripled in the year since. I now see more iPhones at work than Blackberries (which is ironic, given the number of RIM employees are in this building). The pre seems to appeal to a different market segment than the iPhone. While it is getting lots of press, it just doesn't seem to have gained any real traction. Even in the US, it seems like mainly the 'anything but iPhone' crowd, Sprint customers and those that will buy anything shiny and new.

Anyway, the pre seems very nice. If the iPhone didn't meet my needs, I would definitely consider it. That WebOS sure seems shiny.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #91 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I don't understand why anyone would expect the 3GS launch to hurt pre sales in any substantial way. The pre appeals to certain demographics, some of why will not overlap with 3GS. One demographic are those that have no intention of buying an iPhone, whether because it doesn't meet their needs, they have a distain for Apple or they just don't want it. Another group are those that are already on Sprint and don't want to switch to get a useable phone. Yet another group might be wannabe technophiles that want to get the newest gadget on the block and the 3GS just seems to pedestrian for their tastes now. I am not saying these groups encompass every pre buyer, but they will cover a sizable number of them. The 3GS launch would have no impact whatsoever on these sales. Combine this with the fact that there just is nowhere near the demand for the pre that there was/is for the iPhone and it makes it a silly call to say it is a surprise that the 3GS launch didn't hurt pre sales.

The pre hasn't launched here yet, but I know of only one person with any intention of even considering a purchase. His comment was "finally, a useable smart phone that can shut up the iPhone fanboies". Alternatively, when the iPhone 3G was announced to be coming to Canada last year, there were dozens I knew that wanted to check them out. A few co-workers bought them at launch and that number has at least tripled in the year since. I now see more iPhones at work than Blackberries (which is ironic, given the number of RIM employees are in this building). The pre seems to appeal to a different market segment than the iPhone. While it is getting lots of press, it just doesn't seem to have gained any real traction. Even in the US, it seems like mainly the 'anything but iPhone' crowd, Sprint customers and those that will buy anything shiny and new.

Anyway, the pre seems very nice. If the iPhone didn't meet my needs, I would definitely consider it. That WebOS sure seems shiny.

When you consider the puny sales of the Pre, even though it's being built up as being great, you can understand that people are not regarding it as a viable option.

It seems that the Pre's sales are almost all from current Sprint customers. That's not what Sprint hoped for, or needs.

Why would that be so?

We have Verizon, considered by many to be the best network, yet, many Verizon customers have been moving to AT&T for the iPhone. Sprint and AT&T are about the same, but many Sprint customers are leaving to go to AT&T as well, for the iPhone. Sprint is losing 4 million customers a yeardevastating!

So there are undoubtedly more than a few customers who would be considering the Pre. That makes sense. But they would want to wait just one more week to see what Apple had coming. That makes sense as well. A few of those customers will buy the Pre, but most won't.

Both of these phones are contending for the same customer base. The BB fits in here as well of course.

I hope that Palm will be successful with the Pre, WebOS, and whatever newer phones they may come out with.

But let's not pretend that in this increasingly crowded field, that customers aren't going to look at all contenders. As the iPhone is the preeminent smartphone environment, it will be the first to be considered for many people. The Pre, being new, and from a company that's been having major problems, will have to play catch-up. There will be more skepticism there.

So many of people will wait for the iPhone, before they make a decision about the Pre. Some will then choose the Pre, but many more will choose the iPhone.

We're seeing that happen.

An article about the Pre's sales.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/16105-P...Pre-sales.html
post #92 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

When you consider the puny sales of the Pre, even though it's being built up as being great, you can understand that people are not regarding it as a viable option.

It seems that the Pre's sales are almost all from current Sprint customers. That's not what Sprint hoped for, or needs.

Why would that be so?

We have Verizon, considered by many to be the best network, yet, many Verizon customers have been moving to AT&T for the iPhone. Sprint and AT&T are about the same, but many Sprint customers are leaving to go to AT&T as well, for the iPhone. Sprint is losing 4 million customers a yeardevastating!

So there are undoubtedly more than a few customers who would be considering the Pre. That makes sense. But they would want to wait just one more week to see what Apple had coming. That makes sense as well. A few of those customers will buy the Pre, but most won't.

Both of these phones are contending for the same customer base. The BB fits in here as well of course.

I hope that Palm will be successful with the Pre, WebOS, and whatever newer phones they may come out with.

But let's not pretend that in this increasingly crowded field, that customers aren't going to look at all contenders. As the iPhone is the preeminent smartphone environment, it will be the first to be considered for many people. The Pre, being new, and from a company that's been having major problems, will have to play catch-up. There will be more skepticism there.

So many of people will wait for the iPhone, before they make a decision about the Pre. Some will then choose the Pre, but many more will choose the iPhone.

We're seeing that happen.

An article about the Pre's sales.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/16105-P...Pre-sales.html

I agree with all of that. But those customers that were intending to buy a pre at launch, are probably not in the group that is/was considering the new iPhone. It is not a revolutionary leap beyond the 3G. Any reasons they had for not considering an iPhone and planning on getting the pre at launch would likely have been unanswered by the 3G. So, those that were going to buy a pre still did. Absolutely, of those that were waiting to compare, the vast, overwhelming majority probably went with iPhone.

I guess it comes down to how many of those considering a pre at launch had already decided on the pre and how many were waiting to compare with the 3GS. I would suggest that, as early adopters, they already had their minds set on the pre and nothing short of an earth shattering new iPhone would have swayed them. In this case, the whole premise of being surprised by the continued success, small as it is anyway, seems like a bit of feigned surprise. That success for a Palm launch, a company that has been in the business for so many years, is such a small number relative to Apple (a newcomer to the business) is sort of funny. Comparatively, Apple has massive sales and we hear how they haven't managed to over take RIM or Nokia in just 2 years, as though this is a failing on their part.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #93 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I agree with all of that. But those customers that were intending to buy a pre at launch, are probably not in the group that is/was considering the new iPhone. It is not a revolutionary leap beyond the 3G. Any reasons they had for not considering an iPhone and planning on getting the pre at launch would likely have been unanswered by the 3G. So, those that were going to buy a pre still did. Absolutely, of those that were waiting to compare, the vast, overwhelming majority probably went with iPhone.

I guess it comes down to how many of those considering a pre at launch had already decided on the pre and how many were waiting to compare with the 3GS. I would suggest that, as early adopters, they already had their minds set on the pre and nothing short of an earth shattering new iPhone would have swayed them. In this case, the whole premise of being surprised by the continued success, small as it is anyway, seems like a bit of feigned surprise. That success for a Palm launch, a company that has been in the business for so many years, is such a small number relative to Apple (a newcomer to the business) is sort of funny. Comparatively, Apple has massive sales and we hear how they haven't managed to over take RIM or Nokia in just 2 years, as though this is a failing on their part.

Sure, those who had made the decision to buy the Pre will have bought the Pre. But the small sales of the phone shows that not a lot of people went that route. Only 50,000 are now known to have bought the phone the first three days. A very small number. Only between 90,000 and 100,000 bought the first week (includes the 50,000 from that weekend.

These numbers are very small.

I've spoken to a few people who were interested in the Pre, or at least had some curiosity about it, but were waiting for the new iPhone to arrive. I don't know if any of them bought the Pre, but a couple bought the 3GS instead.

I'd like to see the numbers for the first week of the iPhone's sales.
post #94 of 95
For those that think copyrights mean nothing here is an interesting article about J. D. Salinger’s “Catcher in the Rye” character Holden Caufeild.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...er=rss&emc=rss
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #95 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Wrong.. my contract had been up with sprint for 6 months before I bought the pre, I know a couple of people personally who switched to sprint because of the pre.. before you make such prenouncements, you should really state a basis for it. Sprint would be in the best position to know their internal numbers better than you.. if they think their handset sale is result of switchers, i think they are more right than you.. don't you?.

I must have missed this post previously. That is just funny. cuz you know, corporations are never known to bend, distort or twist numbers to their advantage.

I actually hope Palm is successful with the pre. I think an innovative competitor is what Apple needs in this space. If they aren't, it would mean another promising US company going down the crapper. They could end up like IBM. Once great and now forced to lay off thousands (although, it was always sort of expected they would eventually ditch the MCSE's). Hopefully, they stay focused on the task and don't get distracted. Again, I hope they avoid the problems of companies like IBM, forgetting their core strengths but being unable to innovate at the same time. IBM forgot they were a computer company and became a services company. Hiring based on mediocrity and focusing outside of their domain has caused an unending downward spiral.

Anyhoo, the pre numbers are not looking good. That their mediocre sales trends didn't drop when the 3GS was released is still a good sign. I won't be buying one, but hopefully the bleeding edgers can help them work the bugs out with this pre-release (pun intended).

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
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