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Bogged down AT&T 3G to clear in months; Buffett criticizes Jobs

post #1 of 206
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Residents of major US cities that have had near-unusable 3G since the iPhone 3G's launch should finally get relief in the months ahead, AT&T says. Meanwhile, Palm is getting its own relief via breakthrough sales of its Pre smartphone, but Apple co-founder Steve Jobs is getting no break frp, Warren Buffett, who says the executive violated good business principles by keeping his liver transplant a secret.

AT&T sees end in sight for worst 3G woes

Those who live in at least New York City and San Francisco should expect a major improvement in the quality of AT&T's 3G over the next several months, carrier spokesman Mark Siegel claimed this week.

Speaking to Gearlog, he said the congestion problem in these areas is primarily owing to their continuing dependence on AT&T's older 1,900MHz 3G network. Since every iPhone user in these cities has to use this frequency, the network is completely overwhelmed and triggers the by now infamous slow speeds, dropped calls and reversions back to 2G that have affected the areas since the iPhone 3G launched in July of last year.

To solve the problem, AT&T is finally adding the 850MHz band to its 3G in these cities and is simultaneously adding 2,100 extra cell stations plus improving the underlying bandwidth for those stations. All three should give iPhones much more headroom. Outside of Spiegel's comments, it's also known that the lower frequency should provide better overall range as well as improved penetration indoors, where 1,900MHz frequencies often break up.

Poor 3G speeds have quickly become a central problem for AT&T in the past year and have proven a liability as many other countries have gone without similar slowdowns. Even outside of major hubs, many customers have sued AT&T alleging that it has deliberately misled Americans by making speed claims it could never match.

Palm Pre may have topped 150,000 sales, 1,000,000 app downloads

Apple wasn't the only company to hear good news on Wednesday as RBC Capital Markets analyst Mike Abramsky estimated that Palm has had banner sales of its multi-touch Pre phone less than three weeks after it first appeared in stores.

In an investor's note, Abramsky observed that most Sprint stores are still selling out of Pres each day even though many of these are restocked daily with new units. That in turn led to the RBC analyst increasing an estimate for sales so far by another 30,000 phones to reach 150,000. He also increased his prediction for the quarter from 470,000 to 550,000 Pres and now sees Palm shipping 4.1 million phones of any type in its fiscal 2010, and 6.5 million by 2011; both are significant leaps up from 3.2 million and 4.6 million each year.

While the Pre will shoulder much of the load for early successes, the researcher believes growth will only accelerate as Palm adds more carriers in coming months, such as Bell Canada and, in 2010, Verizon. Abramsky further trusts in rumors that a Centro-sized phone known as the Eos will go on sale late this year for other US carriers, including AT&T, at a $99 price low enough to draw in additional customers.

The 150,000 mark is a far cry from Apple's 1 million iPhone 3GS shipments but is strong for Palm, whose sales have rapidly declined as it has depended on faltering sales of PalmOS and Windows Mobile phones.

Simultaneously, though, the company has had good news on the software front courtesy of mobile ad firm Medialets, who noted on Wednesday that Palm's App Catalog had topped 1 million downloads. Again, the number pales in comparison to those for the iPhone App Store, which reached 10 million in just its opening weekend.

The feat is nonetheless impressive as Palm not only has far fewer phones on the market than Apple did at the time but has had far fewer apps: just 30 webOS apps were available at the time the millionth download was recorded.

Buffett: Jobs' surgery should have been reported

Berkshire Hathaway head Warren Buffett had stern words for Apple's chief executive Steve Jobs on Wednesday for the latter's failure to disclose his liver transplant to the public.

Speaking in an interview with CNBC during its Live Lunch program, the famous investor chastised Jobs and said that, as the leader of a major company, the Mac luminary had a responsibility to report any "material fact" about his health that could affect the fate of the company. A life-saving operation certainly fits into this category, Buffett said.

"I think if I have any serious illness, or something coming up of an important nature, an operation or anything like that, I think the thing to do is just tell the American, [or in my case] the Berkshire shareholders about it," he told the TV network. "I work for 'em.* Some people might think I'm important to the company.* Certainly Steve Jobs is important to Apple."

Both Jobs and Apple spokespeople have often disagreed with this policy and have regularly insisted that the executive's health was a private matter even when he had no choice but to take leave from Apple in January and prepare for surgery approximately two months later.




post #2 of 206
Please

I love the iPhone and have had a 2g and now 3g but good god I am tired of dropped calls. It is almost to the point where I just use it for email and that is it.

I have lived in 4 different major cities too and it is basically the same in all of them, except maybe DC where it is solid
post #3 of 206
Quote:
Warren Buffett, who says the executive violated good business principles by keeping his liver transplant a secret.


Steve was on a waiting list, he was close to dying, he needed privacy and time to get a donor liver and made sure the press didn't fsck it up for him.

If I was Steve I would do the same, life first then company.


By the way Warren, how much money did you lose on ConocoPhilips? Yea, you lost your ass on it.

Warren has made some really bad moves lately with his own companies and stock choices, he feels he needs to reassert himself by criticizing Steve Jobs decision.

Steve made a personal decision, not a company one.

Think about that when your on your deathbed waiting for a donor liver Mr. Warren Buffoon!

I can hear the press now "Don't give Buffet a liver, he's rich!"
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #4 of 206
Screw Buffett. What a ass hole. Some on tell him to mind his own bussiness and try and keep himself afloat stead of criticizing someone else for NO REASON!
post #5 of 206
Buffett is wrong. SJ doesn't work for me and knowing of his personal health is none of my or anyone else's business. In fact, I don't even want to know. The shareholders agreed on a method to be informed and that's enough.
post #6 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Warren Buffett had stern words for Apple's chief executive Steve Jobs on Wednesday for the latter's failure to disclose his liver transplant to the public. ...

<sarcasm> Right. Because Warren Buffet is such a paragon of virtue, and because the practice of business is about helping people and spreading love and joy through the world. </sarcasm>
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #7 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAloy View Post

Please

I love the iPhone and have had a 2g and now 3g but good god I am tired of dropped calls. It is almost to the point where I just use it for email and that is it.

I have lived in 4 different major cities too and it is basically the same in all of them, except maybe DC where it is solid

I hate to bring this up but would a antenna help ?? Or a signal boost > ? I know its defeats the purpose but sitting home or at work .??

just saying
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post #8 of 206
I know Buffett is a smart investor, but I personally think he is a tool. Most of the comments he makes in public are very self-serving. He was big Obama supporter, but earlier this year, was complaining about Obama's policies when he was losing his ass. When he speaks, he knows people put great weight on what he says, so he is always saying things in a way that will allow him to take advantage of it as an investor.

I would agree with his comments about Steve Jobs if Jobs had been in control, but he stepped aside and went on leave. Jobs has been fighting for his life and doing anything he could to stay alive. I think the idea that he should be making public statements about his health and every move he is making to improve his health is absurd.

I think it is pretty clear that Jobs has a disease that will ultimately take his life sooner rather than later. Any investor that is making investment decisions in Apple based on Jobs being at the helm for the next decade or so is a stupid person. I just think Buffett's criticism is unfounded.
post #9 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by btitusjr View Post

Screw Buffett. What a ass hole. Some on tell him to mind his own bussiness and try and keep himself afloat stead of criticizing someone else for NO REASON!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crees! View Post

Buffett is wrong. SJ doesn't work for me and knowing of his personal health is none of my or anyone else's business. In fact, I don't even want to know. The shareholders agreed on a method to be informed and that's enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

<sarcasm> Right. Because Warren Buffet is such a paragon of virtue, and because the practice of business is about helping people and spreading love and joy through the world. </sarcasm>

buffy can go suck eggs .
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post #10 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Steve was on a waiting list, he was close to dying, he needed privacy and time to get a donor liver and made sure the press didn't fsck it up for him.

If I was Steve I would do the same, life first then company.


By the way Warren, how much money did you lose on ConocoPhilips? Yea, you lost your ass on it.

Warren has made some really bad moves lately with his own companies and stock choices, he feels he needs to reassert himself by criticizing Steve Jobs decision.

Steve made a personal decision, not a company one.

Think about that when your on your deathbed waiting for a donor liver Mr. Warren Buffoon!

I can hear the press now "Don't give Buffet a liver, he's rich!"

Well 'm glad to see Microsoft , RIM and Palm have been replaced, at least for now.
But what about the stockholders, which is what Warren was really addressing?
post #11 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAloy View Post

Please

I love the iPhone and have had a 2g and now 3g but good god I am tired of dropped calls. It is almost to the point where I just use it for email and that is it.

I have lived in 4 different major cities too and it is basically the same in all of them, except maybe DC where it is solid

I know how you feel. I live in San Francisco and 3G has been unusable here. I can rarely make it to 5 minutes without dropping a call. Switching off 3G works great, though- I think I've had only one or two dropped calls ever with 2G. Unfortunately 2G is lower quality audio, slow internet, and that horrible GSM buzz (I spend most of my time around speakers).

Since OS 3.0 , I've tried 3G and it's working much better now. So far it seems safe to use for non-critical calls. Not sure how much is attributable to the OS or to AT&T's ongoing upgrades, but the phone actually works now.
post #12 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by crees! View Post

Buffett is wrong. SJ doesn't work for me and knowing of his personal health is none of my or anyone else's business. In fact, I don't even want to know. The shareholders agreed on a method to be informed and that's enough.

Well, if you are a shareholder he does work for you, just as a politician is technically a servant of the people. A ship's captain is responsible for the passengers on that ship, and has no right to say something like "My life first, passenger's lives second" (to paraphrase another post on this thread).

This is one of the responsibilities he takes on as CEO of a company.
I am glad it seems he is healthier, but he is not above the law.
And I am not just agreeing with Buffet, I'm not interested in him.
post #13 of 206
I live in San Francisco and I find the reception great!!??
post #14 of 206
Mr. Buffet is a highly-respected investor. Probably one of his kind. Such uninvited statements do not go along with his stature. He should probably stick to this investment ideals rather than comment on someone else's private matter.

To all SJ (Steve Jobs)-bashers:

Try putting yourself in SJ's place. Would you want your own health matter to be made public? Would you like to hear 'Oh! Is he going to die soon? I heard his liver transplant didn't go well.....etc etc' when you're walking down some street or anywhere? Keeping in mind SJ's sheer obsession/determination for Apple's success, I am pretty sure he would have made arrangements to keep Apple running in the best way possible, had something seriously gone wrong with his health.

So, my dear SJ-bashers, please have some decency!

To all those who say that SJ's health is a legal matter for Apple shareholders:
I haven't read a single article anywhere that says that Apple shareholders are worried or have complained that Apple is not being 'frank' with them. So, why are you worried? You got a big heart or an empty brain?

And Mr. Buffet (I know I am not as intelligent as you are), but please concentrate on your own health and your mis-timed ConocoPhilips deal.
post #15 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by btitusjr View Post

Screw Buffett. What a ass hole. Some on tell him to mind his own bussiness and try and keep himself afloat stead of criticizing someone else for NO REASON!

okay lets look at this rationally

1. Buffet's personal opinion is not law. or even SEC regulations. did Jobs violate either. perhaps. but the SEC hasn't decided. But regardless, Buffet has a Constitutional right to have and speak his personal opinion. Even if some of us don't like said opinion.

2. We've seen what rumors have done to Apple's stock. The stock holders are owed something and that is value on the stock shares they own. I can't even imagine the fall the value would have taken had Jobs said straight up "I am going on a leave of absence because my doctors determined that my liver had failed and I just found out that a donor liver is available. Wish me luck" or even "I am suffering from a hormonal imbalance which might be due to a faulty liver and I'm being put on the donor list. Fortunately my health is so crappy I am being put near the top. Until a new liver is available I"m going to take time off so all this stress over my health doesn't kill me first" or whatever. for the stock holders not saying anything that dire kept the stock at a stable level until the whole thing was over and Jobs is not only still alive but with his 'work from home via email/ichat etc' they revamped the laptops, released a new phone etc. so in the end, it was the better choice. not only that but it showed folks that Schiller, Cook etc can handle running the show in Jobs absence, which is something so many feared was going to kill the company.

so in my opinion, and contrary to Mr Buffet, I say they made the right call

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #16 of 206
I agree with Buffet. Steve is human, and this whole debacle was a mistake and badly handled. There are no examples to point to that make meaning, but there's always room for common sense and objectivity. Common sense can be useful genius. Apple knew full well they were telling lies about this for a while. Defending Steve here is naive. One of the people who seem to have had the vision to see the bullshit on this all along was ironically enough Fake Steve.
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #17 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

<sarcasm> Right. Because Warren Buffet is such a paragon of virtue, and because the practice of business is about helping people and spreading love and joy through the world. </sarcasm>

Yeah, anyone who gives $30 billion dollars to Charity to help Starving Children and Aids Foundation is just a mean bastard. SARCASM

Buffett has pledged to gradually give 85% of his Berkshire stock to five foundations. A dominant five-sixths of the shares will go to the world's largest philanthropic organization, the $30 billion Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, whose principals are close friends of Buffett's (a connection that began in 1991, when a mutual friend introduced Buffett and Bill Gates).

Link to Article.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/25/maga...rity1.fortune/
post #18 of 206
I respect both guys, but Buffett really needs to FO&D here.

I read this site, Wired, and others and I could read the veiled news and rumormills as well as most appleheads.

And as anyone can see, SJ's sabbatical hit the stock in a very overdone way a little while back.

So if WB himself is worse than us at interpreting these things and anticipating overselling, etc. than the AI-faithful, macHeads, et al, then he just needs to accept his grampaw status and get the hell out of Apple stock.


BTW, who else doubled down when AAPL was oversold near ~80 about 3rd week of Jan '09 and is now up about 60% on that money?

I bet you WB was not one of them. :P
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"-but Jimmy has fear? A thousand times no. I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey strong bowels were girded with strength like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the...
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post #19 of 206
I used to think Buffet was OK until he went all over the airwaves telling everyone to TARP it up, BABY! Yeah, you own companies that need TARP. Ever hear of conflict of interest? Ever consider shutting it? That right there is A LOT more to worry about than anything Jobs has done.
post #20 of 206
Can somebody explain to me why every article I read about AT&T's network only affects the iPhone 3G phone? Guys, it affects every freaking 3G phone, not just Apple's.

BTW, the 1900GHz band IS horrendous indoors and it explains a lot about AT&T's poor 3G coverage in major cities (I'm in SF). They should've been fixing this from last year, not starting now to address it.
post #21 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by nite41 View Post

Try putting yourself in SJ's place. Would you want your own health matter to be made public? Would you like to hear 'Oh! Is he going to die soon? I heard his liver transplant didn't go well.....etc etc' when you're walking down some street or anywhere?

"In SJ's place"? In his place you have responsibilities. Which means "in a certain situation certain actions are required of you". What you would like to hear when you walk down the street has nothing to do with anything, whether you would want something made public does not enter into it. You do know what the word "responsibility" means, right? As opposed to "personal preferences"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nite41 View Post

I am pretty sure he would have made arrangements to keep Apple running in the best way possible

Of course the company would not collapse, that is not what anybody is talking about, people are talking about value of shares. SJ has responsibility to shareholders. That's his job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nite41 View Post

So, my dear SJ-bashers, please have some decency!

In business (and SJ is nothing if not a business man, a very good one) our decency should not enter into the debate.but if you're determined to see decency enter into the equation: what about Apple's decency to shareholders. private people all over the world who own shares, investing their hard earned money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nite41 View Post

I haven't read a single article anywhere that says that Apple shareholders are worried or have complained that Apple?

you haven't`try google. and try different languages. people all over the world are "not amused". 3 of my freinds own share, they are furious.

Buffet's statements are of no interest to me.
post #22 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

okay lets look at this rationally

1. Buffet's personal opinion is not law. or even SEC regulations. did Jobs violate either. perhaps. but the SEC hasn't decided. But regardless, Buffet has a Constitutional right to have and speak his personal opinion. Even if some of us don't like said opinion.

2. We've seen what rumors have done to Apple's stock. The stock holders are owed something and that is value on the stock shares they own. I can't even imagine the fall the value would have taken had Jobs said straight up "I am going on a leave of absence because my doctors determined that my liver had failed and I just found out that a donor liver is available. Wish me luck" or even "I am suffering from a hormonal imbalance which might be due to a faulty liver and I'm being put on the donor list. Fortunately my health is so crappy I am being put near the top. Until a new liver is available I"m going to take time off so all this stress over my health doesn't kill me first" or whatever. for the stock holders not saying anything that dire kept the stock at a stable level until the whole thing was over and Jobs is not only still alive but with his 'work from home via email/ichat etc' they revamped the laptops, released a new phone etc. so in the end, it was the better choice. not only that but it showed folks that Schiller, Cook etc can handle running the show in Jobs absence, which is something so many feared was going to kill the company.

so in my opinion, and contrary to Mr Buffet, I say they made the right call

That's the best post on this much-debated issue, so far.

For the record, I am a deep admirer of Buffett (and obviously, Jobs).
post #23 of 206
1) Is there a reason why AT&T couldn’t have switched these towers before, or why it seems like they are doing them all at once instead of doing them one at a time?

2) Way to go Palm. You aren’t gonna kill the iPhone but you may just save yourself and help Sprint to loss less customers than they did the quarter prior.

3) How did that $3B investment to GM work out for Buffett?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree with Buffet. Steve is human, and this whole debacle was a mistake and badly handled. There are no examples to point to that make meaning, but there's always room for common sense and objectivity. Common sense can be useful genius. Apple knew full well they were telling lies about this for a while. Defending Steve here is naive. One of the people who seem to have had the vision to see the bullshit on this all along was ironically enough Fake Steve.

Jobs stepped down for a well known 6 month hiatus because he was ill. He is under no obligation to tell us what his stool looks like every morning. If he hadn’t stepped down then the surgery would have been important to shareholder, but not while he is out of the picture. I think Buffett is quite wrong in this instance.

Now, that does not excuse Apple from not disclosing of other situations while Jobs was CEO, but if the board knew and they voted to keep it quite then that becomes a different issue altogether.

Personally, I’m a stock holder and I dont’ care what happens to Jobs. Don’t get me wrong, I hope the guy is okay —in the same way I wish any other person i don’t know happiness and long life— but the company is on a path that is well set and with enough momentum to keep it focused with a Jobsian viewpoint for several years to come regardless of the role he plays. In other threads there were plenty of comments made about Cook being in charge is why this or that product came to be are just ludicrous. These wheels were turning before Jobs left and they will continue to turn after he is gone. It will take some time for the new vision to start revealing what the future of Apple will be like.
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post #24 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidT View Post

You do know what the word "responsibility" means, right? As opposed to "personal preferences"?

What arrant nonsense. There are different types of 'responsibility.' Responsibility to job is different from responsibility to oneself, one's family, one's community, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidT View Post

SJ has responsibility to shareholders. That's his job.

Yeah, you yourself said it: job. His Job is 9-5, his other responsibilities are 5-9 and nobody's business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidT View Post

In business (and SJ is nothing if not a business man, a very good one) our decency should not enter into the debate.but if you're determined to see decency enter into the equation: what about Apple's decency to shareholders. private people all over the world who own shares, investing their hard earned money.

Our sense of "decency should not enter into the debate" because it is about "shareholders"? Wow. Your moral universe sounds like a dark place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidT View Post

3 of my freinds own share, they are furious.

Your friends are a bunch of crybabies. If they think this is unacceptable risk, they should sell.

No one is forcing them to hold their shares. If they are still holding, obviously they have already made this trade-off in their risk-return calculus.
post #25 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Buffett: Jobs' surgery should have been reported

Berkshire Hathaway head Warren Buffett had stern words for Apple's chief executive Steve Jobs on Wednesday for the latter's failure to disclose his liver transplant to the public.

The differance between Buffet and just about any C*O and Jobs in a situation like this is that the other execs don't have rabid fanboys who would love nothing more than to get a "scoop" for blogs like this, they wouldn't have media, outside of maybe one lone investigative reporter from CNBC or the WSJ: a simple press release about a vague medical leave would have been enough.

What if this had been the CEO of Coke, The Home Depot, or Cisco? Who woulda cared? The business that is Apple was and is in good hands the whole time, you think Cook, Schiller and the crew weren't ready for the worst? you'd be wrong, and as a stockholder via my retirement plan, that is what matters. I do not want to know the medical dealings of anyone, I don't care as long as the job gets done and money is made, which has not been a problem for some time now at Apple Inc.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #26 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree with Buffet. Steve is human, and this whole debacle was a mistake and badly handled. There are no examples to point to that make meaning, but there's always room for common sense and objectivity. Common sense can be useful genius. Apple knew full well they were telling lies about this for a while. Defending Steve here is naive. One of the people who seem to have had the vision to see the bullshit on this all along was ironically enough Fake Steve.

Great statement. Agree with you in everyway!
post #27 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Common sense can be useful genius.

Wow, you don't say!
post #28 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What arrant nonsense. There are different types of 'responsibility.' Responsibility to job is different from responsibility to oneself, one's family, one's community, etc.




Yeah, you yourself said it: job. His Job is 9-5, his other responsibilities are 5-9 and nobody's business.



Our sense of "decency should not enter into the debate" because it is about "shareholders"? Wow. Your moral universe sounds like a dark place.



Your friends are a bunch of crybabies. If they think this is unacceptable risk, they should sell.

No one is forcing them to hold their shares. If they are still holding, obviously they have already made this trade-off in their risk-return calculus.

It is our business. The company sold the public stock. Instead of the fanboys looking for loopholes and technical excuses, how about just doing the right thing. Instead of us selling our stock, if he wants his privacy and feels he has no responsibility to shareholders, he can resign and have all the privacy he wants.

It would be really refreshing for the head of a major corporation to do the right thing occasionally.
post #29 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Buffett has pledged to gradually give 85% of his Berkshire stock to five foundations. A dominant five-sixths of the shares will go to the world's largest philanthropic organization, the $30 billion Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, whose principals are close friends of Buffett's (a connection that began in 1991, when a mutual friend introduced Buffett and Bill Gates).

Precisely. You have made a good case for Buffett's bias.
post #30 of 206
@ davidT

You seem to want a sensical, non-emotional debate. Fine. For the boards edification, can you please point to where it is by law that Steve Jobs is required to release information pertaining to his medical conditions. If you can't do that, then I'd say in this particular instance, Apple and Steve handled it correctly, and probable the best it could have been handled. I await your reply.
post #31 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree with Buffet. Steve is human, and this whole debacle was a mistake and badly handled. There are no examples to point to that make meaning, but there's always room for common sense and objectivity. Common sense can be useful genius. Apple knew full well they were telling lies about this for a while. Defending Steve here is naive. One of the people who seem to have had the vision to see the bullshit on this all along was ironically enough Fake Steve.

Could you supply irrefutable proof?
post #32 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree with Buffet. Steve is human, and this whole debacle was a mistake and badly handled.

Are you *** kidding me?!???! It was BEAUTIFULLY handled! Straight out of the Apple play book.

"Just one more thing ..."

All joking aside - shareholders OWE Steve for the way he handled this. Imagine if he announced he was dying of liver disease, Apple's stock would have crashed through the floor. He took care of what he needed to do, and then returned Apple - leaked the news to the WSJ, and later confirmed it. AAPL barely blipped.

EDIT: Language please!
post #33 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Precisely. You have made a good case for Buffett's bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982
Buffett has pledged to gradually give 85% of his Berkshire stock to five foundations. A dominant five-sixths of the shares will go to the world's largest philanthropic organization, the $30 billion Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, whose principals are close friends of Buffett's (a connection that began in 1991, when a mutual friend introduced Buffett and Bill Gates).

Have you ever thought he would have donated the money to Steve Jobs charity foundation if he actually had a foundation?
post #34 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Could you supply irrefutable proof?

Well, by law, he does have to keep the board informed of his health. So assuming that he did keep them informed, they haven't been, let us say, open about what was happening.
post #35 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Apple knew full well they were telling lies about this for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Could you supply irrefutable proof?

Seconded Abster2core, and actually, tracking this over time, it seemed as if they were still pin pointing what may be wrong with Steve Jobs. So its not clear by any stretch that Apple was lying at any point in time. At worst, you could accuse them of not telling the whole truth, but that may be because at the time the rest of the story was still being speculated and there was still ongoing research as to what was ailing SJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Defending Steve here is naive.[

On the contrary, I think there is quite a bit of room for defense of Apple and SJ's handling of this issue. Since we're all working with an incomplete knowledge as to the full timeline of events, it would therefore be too early to be pointing the finger either way. Unless you are an inside man into this?
post #36 of 206
Warren Buffett can kiss my ass.
post #37 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Have you ever thought he would have donated the money to Steve Jobs charity foundation if he actually had a foundation?

Why not?

But he was very impressed with the Gate's determination in this, and his commitment. Though I think it was really a way to garner good publicity for Gates after all the criticism he received over the years.

Understand that before this, Gates gave almost nothing to charity. It was his father that suggested this.

To be fair, SJ has also given almost nothing to charity over the years.
post #38 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, by law, he does have to keep the board informed of his health. So assuming that he did keep them informed, they haven't been, let us say, open about what was happening.

I'm still unclear as to what law you and DavidT are referring to, and whether or not it applies to SJ's situation.

Also, they may not have known exactly what was wrong with SJ or how serious the situation may have been at the time. So to us, it may have seemed like back tracking, but that isn't necessarily how the events played out.
post #39 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, by law, he does have to keep the board informed of his health. So assuming that he did keep them informed, they haven't been, let us say, open about what was happening.

And that is lying?

Can you give us irrefutable proof that the Board lied?

P.S. As far as I know, there are only three instances from Jobs and/or the board that said anything about his health. In none of these, is their a hint, let alone irrefutable evidence, that someone was lying.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/14advisory.html
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/05sjletter.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123116274391653637.html
post #40 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

Are you *** kidding me?!???! It was BEAUTIFULLY handled! Straight out of the Apple play book.

"Just one more thing ..."

All joking aside - shareholders OWE Steve for the way he handled this. Imagine if he announced he was dying of liver disease, Apple's stock would have crashed through the floor. He took care of what he needed to do, and then returned Apple - leaked the news to the WSJ, and later confirmed it. AAPL barely blipped.

EDIT: Language please!

Exactly! We owe Steve for a lot more too. Like all this wonderful hardware and software that just works!
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
Reply
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
Reply
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