Apple's profit margin on Mac minis slimmer than usual - Page 5

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Well of course, because that's how companies build consumer loyalty, which as we know Apple has so little.

Originally Posted by solipsism

On top of that, I’m ignorant because I prefer glossy displays.

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Very well said as always. But it was your closing comment that really set me thinking.

It doesn't help that the media buys so completely into the idea of Apple customers being something like a cult. Try googling for "Apple faithful" or "Mac faithful." Then google for "Sony faithful" and compare the hit results, not just for raw numbers but for the source of the quotes. My little experiment in this yielded over 40,000 hits for the first two but only about 1,000 for the latter, and a great many of the top hits for Apple were from established media outlets, which only goes to show something we probably already knew: that this has long been the conventional way of describing Apple customers. In fact in my experience it's difficult to find a media writer who doesn't automatically add the word "faithful" after the word "Apple" in a strikingly large percentage of what they write about the company.

Originally Posted by vinea

Sony used to have a lot of "faithfuls" that bought all Sony TV, stereos, walkmans, etc. At some point their QC dropped and they lost a lot of those. But they went several years where they could stick junk in any sorta Sony box and sell them. The problem was they pretty did for their lower end lines and really trashed their brand image.

Originally Posted by e1618978

Why include tax? Just because it lets you blame Apple for the fact that you live in a crappy high-tax country?

1) I clearly pointed out how the data you provided attests to nothing and that you may very well be correct, but that your absolution that Apple is screwing their consumers requires some proof, which you have yet to provide. I cant provide your proof for you.

Originally Posted by mrochester

Please backup your statements with evidence if you are going to debate a topic. Thanks.

Originally Posted by solipsism

That isnt how logic works when you are trying to defend your argument. You are the one stating that it was absolutely possible to put a considerably larger camera into the iPhone because other phones had larger cameras. You are the one stating that the other HW used in the iPhone has absolutely no barring on the the volume consumed in relation to other phones. You are the one stating that Apple could have done video recording regardless of the OS variances between phones. You are the ones claiming the conspiracy theory that Apple has forced people to use the same phone for two years until they upped the resolution in their third model, despite there free update to v3.0 and your complete lack of proof to defend any of your claims. Youare the one making the grandiose statements about subterfuge in the halls of Cupertino so you are the one who needs to supply the evidence of this skullduggery.

Originally Posted by mrochester

I have provided evidence to support my claims, you are just conveniently ignoring. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree if you can't provide any evidence for your viewpoint .

Originally Posted by mrochester

If it was technically possible to do, they didn't leave it out because there wasn't demand (as there was demand).

Originally Posted by tt92618

I'm not sure you understand what the term 'evidence' means. What you have provided is certainly not evidence.

Originally Posted by mrochester

Like I said, agree to disagree if no one can provide evidence to convince me of the contrary .

Originally Posted by vinea

No one cares to convince you of anything. It is you that wishes to convince us that Apple is evil and out to screw their customers.

Paint us unimpressed with your arguments thus far.

Originally Posted by Dunks

Don't worry America, the rest of the world is subsidising the cost of your Mac Mini's.

Current Australian prices start from US$845.90 before tax.

Originally Posted by mrochester

I'll notch one up to myself for at least being able to provide evidence

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Just because the US dollar is weak doesn't mean that you are paying more.

Originally Posted by Dunks

Don't worry America, the rest of the world is subsidising the cost of your Mac Mini's.

Current Australian prices start from US$845.90 before tax.

Originally Posted by jfanning

He listed it in US$, the exchange rate doesn't apply

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

So you can convert from Australian Dollars to US Dollars without an exchange rate?

You learn something new around here every day.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Rewording: He listed the US price AFTER the exchange rate conversion was applied.

http://store.apple.com/au/browse/hom...amily/mac_mini

Originally Posted by paxman

Yes, and it has always been a very 'low end' term and as such says more about the person using it than the person it is pointed at. Its a broad gibe intended to offend. It generalizes stupidly. It is juvenile. I really don't think it ever did have a finer point. Why else would gender come into a debate where you wish to point out that somebody is unreasonably / blindly biased?

Originally Posted by penchanted

This is too funny coming from the same person who, just a couple of days ago, chided another poster about sourcing from Wikipedia:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...6&postcount=74

Originally Posted by mrochester

Yeah this really bugs me too. It's funny the number of people who said that auto-focus cameras and video were so not needed on the iPhone, yet they were all falling over themselves to buy the 3GS when it came out to have an auto-focus camera and video. It cracks me up that whatever product Apple currently sells is the absolute pinnacle of excellence, with all the features that anyone would ever need, at a price that's perfectly justifiable. This view then conveniently changes as soon as Apple announces their next product. I've posted in and observed the AppleInsider forum for a long while now, and it's truely like watching a herd of sheep following each other around. It's sad really, as it's like these people simply don't have a mind of their own.

Originally Posted by addabox

And herein lies the trouble. You're using "someone" without being specific, allowing you to create an aggregate "fanboy" by cherry picking (or simply misrepresenting) opinions from multiple posters on multiple topics over long periods of time, as if each Apple user must be held responsible for and remain consistent with every other Apple user or be revealed as a fanboy hypocrite.

This is how it generally works the internet over-- anyone expressing satisfaction with anything Apple does (or failing to belittle them or not getting excited about something Microsoft has done) is immediately branded a "fanboy" because "they" or "them" or "Apple users" or "people like that" have said something else, somewhere else, some other time.

The crux seems to be developing an opinion about Apple users in general which is then used to castigate each Apple user in particular, which is, not to put too fine a point on it, bullshit.

So if you read any other tech blog's comments, you'll see, over and over again, that when someone make a mild remark expressing support of Apple they are immediately met with a hail of "Here we go!" and "The fanboys are rushing to their master Jobs's defense!" and "Typical fanboy LOL stop blowing Steve and get a clue LOL!"

Really, it's pretty tiresome and at this point seems to be little more than an "acceptable" outlet for the kind of tribal animosities that might otherwise get directed toward race or religion. If you take a look at the level of vitriol that gets slung around you have to assume that the "death to fanboy" brigade are simply excitable bigots who can't get it up for the old standbys.

So unless you can give us some specifics about specific posters insisting that, say, the iPhone doesn't and never will need MMS, and those same posters immediately declaring the inclusion of MMS on the iPhone some kind of Apple triumph, you're just blowing smoke out of your ass.

Originally Posted by teckstud

Good try. No -I'm not - I don't have time to directly look for all these quotes just to appease your denial. You know they exist- yet want to conitinually play this game of tit for tat. I have a life. Other's have agreed with me - it is a totally recognizable trait.
Enough said.

Originally Posted by addabox

AKA "my prejudice is shared by others so why should I make any effort to discern if it's fair"?

It's easy to make any group out as wrong if you don't have to deal in particulars. Just start with "you know how they are" and use each individual example as "proof" that "they" are indeed like that.

Since individual people express a very broad range of opinions and behaviors, you'll never lack for "evidence". You will, however, be a bigoted asshole.

Originally Posted by penchanted

That definition comes from the Dictionary application - you know, the one included with every Macintosh computer. You can also find the definition in the online Merriam-Webster disctionary. Your explanation sounds duplicitous to me but I am sure you will find some other reason why it is appropriate for you to source from Wikipedia yet inappropriate for others.

By the way, I am no fan of yours. You seem to live in a world where a half-full glass is almost empty. I try to avoid people like that.

For better or worse, I am blessed with excellent memory and am able to recall much of what I read from here or elsewhere. Of course, you oversized sense of self has once again led you to the wrong conclusion.

Originally Posted by tt92618

Maybe Apple should elect you to the board so you can set them all straight, eh Teckstud?

Here is the deal: Manufacturers design, produce, and market a product, and the consumer (you) decides whether or not to buy the product at the price point offered.

It doesn't seem like anyone forced you to buy a mac, or an iPhone, or any other Apple product for that matter. So, whining and complaining because you think the evil Apple overlords have abused you by charging too much is just silly (and that is the nice way of saying it.)

Why don't you just go buy an $800 Dell and go hang out on winSuperSite? The way you carry on, it seems like that would be more palatable for all of us.

Originally Posted by tt92618

This is all a bunch of garbage. Your definition of fan boy amounts to this: "anyone who disagrees with you." As a matter of fact, that is how you consistently use the term: whenever someone doesn't agree with whatever negative effluent you have to spill out at the particular time.

You don't seem to get the fact that you, mr. teckstud, are not the prototype upon which all humanity is based, and therefor your particular interests or desires in a product do not act as the reference model for what every product designed by anyone ought to be. Furthermore, you interpret something like the removal of firewire, and then its addition again, as acknowledgment of a mistake, when you don't have a clue as to what drove those choices. You don't know if it was a costing decision, a space consideration, or whatever. Heck, maybe they were in fact mistakes. Maybe they misjudged the market, realized the gaffe, and corrected. Who the heck actually cares? The problem with you is that your belief is that anything Apple does which contradicts your own personal views and tastes is a mistake. And of course, anyone who doesn't see it that way is a 'fan boy'.

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Of course, it could not be done any other way. Still doesn't make any sense.

I hear this all the time when the US dollar is weak. People in other countries start crying about how much more expensive it is to buy Apple products in their country when in reality the price hasn't changed here or there. What has changed is the exchange rate.

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

So you can convert from Australian Dollars to US Dollars without an exchange rate?

You learn something new around here every day.

Originally Posted by solipsism

His point, whether valid or not, is that the US Mac Mini costs $599 USD and the Australian Mac Mini costs ~$840 USD. Of course, hes not considering the cost differences involved between that AU price and the US price, but those aspects have not been addressed in this micro-thread.

Originally Posted by solipsism

His point, whether valid or not, is that the US Mac Mini costs $599 USD and the Australian Mac Mini costs ~$840 USD. Of course, hes not considering the cost differences involved between that AU price and the US price, but those aspects have not been addressed in this micro-thread.

Originally Posted by jfanning

But those cost differences don't seem to make any sense. The Mac Mini in NZ before tax is around $800 USD, but it I order it from the Apple Store, the billing is done by another Apple country, and it is shipped from outside NZ.

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

The point I'm making is that it makes no sense to quote Australian prices in US dollars. Australians neither earn nor spend US dollars.

Originally Posted by solipsism

So you find that whole idea of an exchange rate to be pointless?

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

No, completely the opposite. The question puzzles me, if only because I just went through a lot of trouble to explain how that system works.

Originally Posted by solipsism

You cant have it both ways. Either we covert the currencies for comparison or we dont convert and we make no comparison. We usually convert into USSD because that is the country in which Apple resides and all prices are based on.

Originally Posted by solipsism

What cost differences are considering? The number of units sold that require the AU power supply compared to the US power supply? Keyboard variances for a relatively small number of units? Packaging for a relatively small number of units compared to the US? Import tax for a foreign made product? Any VAT? Retesting fees of per unit fees for an electronic device for AU? Any minor or stupid thing that needs to be added or removed to accommodate AU laws?

Originally Posted by solipsism

edit: Millhouse brings up a good point in post #188 about a variable that I didnt mention above. What was the exchange rate when the prices of the Mac Mini were set in AU. Though that isnt the only qualifier as a company still needs to make a judgment call as to whether the value of each relative coumntries dollar will change over time as they cant very well change the prices daily.

Originally Posted by jfanning

...yet the NZ model is US$50 cheaper before tax than the AU model.

As mentioned before, the exchange rate between the US$ and the rest of the world tanked (at the maximum) just over a year ago, the prices were not adjusted.

Originally Posted by tt92618

Everyone calm down and be nice. We don't need to fight over whether we should talk about exchange rates. The real issue is, for a given market and currency, is the product priced attractively and without inexplicable markup?

Originally Posted by tt92618

Complaining that the mac mini is cheaper in the US is a bit like whining because eggs are cheaper in Mexico. So what? This is only true because our money is worth more than Mexican currency, hence it gives us greater 'bang for the buck' there. Just because it is cheaper for us doesn't make the product actually cheaper in its locale. Australia is the reverse. Their currency is weaker than ours, and that is still the case. Is it a surprise, then, that a mac mini will cost more $USD in Australia? Yes, when AUD is worth less than the dollar, converting AUD to $ and then buying a mac in $ will yield a cost that is higher locally than the $ price in the US. No surprise there.

What are we arguing about again? ;-)

Originally Posted by jfanning

As mentioned before, the exchange rate between the US$ and the rest of the world tanked (at the maximum) just over a year ago, the prices were not adjusted. The US$ rose shortly after this, and Apple introduced some new products, and raised prices in the non-US areas. They also mentioned this in one of there market reports, and they blamed the price increase on the weak US$ since they weren't making as much money.

Originally Posted by jfanning

The weakness of the currency is not what is being argued with, it is the extra costs the Apple is sticking on after changing the currency.

Originally Posted by solipsism

And you've accounted for every possible variable for the price difference?

Originally Posted by solipsism

Are you inferring that that prices should be adjusted on a regular, perhaps daily, basis to accommodate the exchange rate differences? This is the Mac Mini we're talking about here. A machine that has not changed its look since the PPC days and tends to go a very long time between even basic spec upgrades. It's not exactly Apple's primary Mac focus.