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Apple's profit margin on Mac minis slimmer than usual - Page 2

post #41 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by imGayForSteveJobs View Post

Apple PC's use the same hardware, intel processors, nvidia graphics.. Now if they could only fix those display problems...

Because a PC is composed of only a CPU and GPU and because all Intel and Nvidia components are exactly the same in price and performance.
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post #42 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Geez that's a nice system.

Thanks. I'm really happy with it. The 8800GT graphics card is pretty darned quick for gaming, too. I was lucky because I was in California on business and happened to find it listed on craigslist by an Apple employee. Although $2900 is not cheap, it's a steal for that system in that configuration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

As expensive as the Mac Pro is I figure I'm headed on that path.

You're not likely to regret it. I have built so many systems that I've lost count, but you can't put together anything comparable to the Mac Pro. You can't even buy cases that approach the one used on the Mac Pro. SATA drives that just slide in on drive sleds -- no cables to connect. Over two dozen temperature sensors and an intelligent controller to adjust fan speeds relative to where the heat is showing up. It's just done right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

The mini though is a great little system and I swear if they don't keep their value. Often I'll find someone selling an Intel mini on craigslist (I have an RSS feed as an alert) and if there's a Intel mini in the $300s it's gone in a day or two.

They are still highly valued systems and highly capable.

Agreed 100%! I sold mine to my GF at a good price. I had upgraded it to 4GB, DVD-R/W, and 320GB hard drive (I got very good at opening it up -- not a scratch on the case). That is the computer that she uses for her job as a freelance writer and editor. The comfort factor of having Time Machine and an easy recovery should something go wrong is really a big selling point with her. Should the Mac Mini have a catastrophic hardware failure, she knows that she can get another one, put the Time Machine drive on it, and be back up and running in a few hours having lost, at most, an hour's work. Unless you are a computer or graphic professional, the Mac Mini is a fine system
post #43 of 201
It's an elegant design and value add. Currently own two and thinking of getting a new one to upgrade my current desktop.
post #44 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I did last week- why? I live in New York- I'm used to paying high taxes on everything.

Fair enough. I asked out of curiosity because there was a recent article saying that most iPod touch users didn't upgrade to 3.0.
post #45 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I have never used the term 'troll' ever. But I don't object to it as much. At least when it is used as a verb. Apple Tax is just a dumb term designed to appeal on a base level against Apple's high prices. Or perceived high prices. I know you think Apple overcharges and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion. But in terms of the usage of the made up term in question, that is neither here nor there. As for Fanboy... do I really have to say anything? It is a kindergarten level gibe. I mean, explain it to me (intelligently, if you can. I know what an Apple fan (or fanatic in extreme cases) is. Apple fan = a fan of all things Apple (gender neutral). Fanboy - a boy that is a fan of something? A fan of boys?

Bias is they key ingredient. Nothing Apple does is ever considered wrong or average.

From Wiki:
Quote:
Fanboy is a term originating in the United States[citation needed], used to describe a male who is highly devoted and biased in opinion towards a single subject or hobby within a given field.

read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(aficionado)

What I'm really surprised is that you don't know what the term means or have any idea towards what it means and that is indeed a relevant term. Were you just released into society? This term has been around for quite a number of years.
post #46 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianus View Post

Well, manufacturing costs were included in the estimate. I assumed that included packaging and assembly. The software is basically the same as for all their other models so I'm not really sure how you quantify that for the Mini specifically. You mean like, specialized drivers or something?

Manufacturing was included but not packing material (cardboard box, manual, etc.) but that is probably not much, maybe around $10 or $20 (or even less, I have no idea really).

What is missing from this information is indeed how much an Apple retailer is paying for these. In Europe, a VAT between 15 and 25% has to be factored in as well.
Assuming a reseller has a $50 margin, Apple would get $550 for the base mini. If you factor in, packaging and transport and distribution, Apple is paying at least $400 to ship one base mini to a retailer. In other words a $150 'raw' margin. Now, factor in the OS, $120 (assuming that is what Apple would get from a retailer for the OS), and you end up with a grand total of $30 from which to finance the whole hardware development and testing. And only after that comes profit.

What is obvious, is that Apple is essentially able to sell their OS (where a lot of their genius is) at different prices to different people. Those buying a cheap Mac 'pay' much less for the OS, those getting a top-of-the-line pay a lot more. That is how their business works. Their biggest assets is software and by bundling it with hardware they can extract the maximum price in each market segment.
post #47 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I suspect as much too. I don't know how iSupply estimates the cost of components, especially those that Apple has the leverage buy at substantial discounts.

Any links to show proof of this ?

peace

9
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post #48 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by patroll View Post

Fair enough. I asked out of curiosity because there was a recent article saying that most iPod touch users didn't upgrade to 3.0.

I preferto have my software up to date. The main reason is for the bluetooth functionality.
post #49 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Then what are you -- an Apple panboy?

Why are you attacking our grand pooh bah . He is never wrong
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post #50 of 201
Think of what else the Mac mini does: enables Apple to leverage more "economy of scale" in parts ordering. Also it is one more machine to sell OS upgrades and iLife upgrades for, etc.
post #51 of 201
The article states that Apple often uses laptop components within desktops to keep within their design standards... and that these parts cost more.

I would suggest that assumption may not necessarily be true. Efficiencies can be created by standardizing parts across platforms within the production process, that may offset what might be a more expensive part originally. These cost savings could come from (1) lowering part cost purely by increased quantity, (2) management and financial costs associated with vendor relations, (3) R & D costs associated with using common components... I'm sure there are more. Just because component-X for a laptop costs more than a similar component for a desktop... in a production environment, this may not hold true.
post #52 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The iPhone is really making Apple or AT&T a killing, to the tune of a missing $760 over a two year contract, itś hard to know who gets what part of that.

Where they have no provider lock, Apple sells the iPhone 16 GB for 600 ($845 but it includes VAT) and an iPod touch 16 GB for 280. Yes, there is the phone and GPS hardware but Apple is really make a huge raw profit with the iPhone. In countries with an exclusive provider, Apple probably gets even more, in Switzerland (which has two official iPhone providers) a contract-less iPhone 16 GB sells for CHF 1000 (or $915).
post #53 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Right- and you'll stop using the tern "troll" whenever somebody says anything against the grain. Fanboy is not stupid but a reality. How else do you explain how someone cn defend every shortcoming in any given Apple product- all the time, incessantly?

Fan boy is a stupid term because its used so broadly. A fanboy is someone who stands up and claps when steve jobs enters a room. A fanboy is someone who waits 8 yrs to play high end games because he won;t touch msft ever. a FANBOY NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY HATES BILL GATES AND MSFT.
a fanboy is loyal will also say apple is wrong <<very rare > when apple is wrong.
a fanboy loves stve jobs and wants him healed .
I AM A FAN BOY and proud of it .
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post #54 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Bias is they key ingredient. Nothing Apple does is ever considered wrong or average.

The reason that you always see bias is because of your perspective which is that of an individual end customer with unique requirements.

Many people who admire Apple and say in these forums that "it can do no wrong", say that from either the perspective of an investor (in Apple stock) or of a student of business.
post #55 of 201
They would be able to make more profit if they used cheaper parts like these guys do:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/g...rm-factor-pcs/

Then we'd get:

Intel® Core(TM) 2 Quad Q8400 (2.66GHz, 4MB L2 cache)
NVIDIA® GeForce® G210 graphics card (512MB video memory)
Intel G43 Express chipset
8GB DDR3 SDRAM
750GB SATA hard drive (1)
18x DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive featuring Labelflash(TM) Technology (2)
Multi-in-one digital media card reader
Windows® Vista Home Premium 64 bit
10/100/1000 (Gigabit) LAN
8 USB 2.0 ports (4 front / 4 rear)
1 1394 (rear / miniport)
1 HDMI port (rear)
1 VGA port (rear)
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD

for $899

They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.

If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.

The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
post #56 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

They would be able to make more profit if they used cheaper parts like these guys do:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/g...rm-factor-pcs/

Then we'd get:

Intel® Core(TM) 2 Quad Q8400 (2.66GHz, 4MB L2 cache)
NVIDIA® GeForce® G210 graphics card (512MB video memory)
Intel G43 Express chipset
8GB DDR3 SDRAM
750GB SATA hard drive (1)
18x DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive featuring Labelflash(TM) Technology (2)
Multi-in-one digital media card reader
Windows® Vista Home Premium 64 bit
10/100/1000 (Gigabit) LAN
8 USB 2.0 ports (4 front / 4 rear)
1 1394 (rear / miniport)
1 HDMI port (rear)
1 VGA port (rear)
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD

for $899

They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.

If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.

The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.

Small problem.

Its a Gateway.

If I want a PC, I would build (and have done so before)
post #57 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.

How exactly are they building it wrong because they choose to build to a small, low-power machine with notebook-grade parts? That is there choice, just as it’s any other PC OEMs choice to use the HW they choose. It’s like me saying those OEMs that build gaming notebooks with desktop-grade components weighing 15lbs with a batteries that last for a single hour are doing it wrong simply because I’m not a gamer. Neither the Mac Mini nor a gaming machine appeal to me but I can’t imagine how either one is being built wrong.
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post #58 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

'Apple Tax' is a silly term right up there with 'fanboy', the use of which signifies low intelligence, lack of insight and plain old laziness. Please, lets refrain from using stupid terminology whenever possible.

come in europe and buy an apple machine then you can tell me there is no apple tax
post #59 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsirko View Post

come in europe and buy an apple machine then you can tell me there is no apple tax

VAT ≠ Apple Tax
Import Tax ≠ Apple Tax
Exchange Rate ≠ Apple Tax
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post #60 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

They would be able to make more profit if they used cheaper parts like these guys do:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/g...rm-factor-pcs/

Then we'd get:

Intel® Core(TM) 2 Quad Q8400 (2.66GHz, 4MB L2 cache)
NVIDIA® GeForce® G210 graphics card (512MB video memory)
Intel G43 Express chipset
8GB DDR3 SDRAM
750GB SATA hard drive (1)
18x DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive featuring Labelflash(TM) Technology (2)
Multi-in-one digital media card reader
Windows® Vista Home Premium 64 bit
10/100/1000 (Gigabit) LAN
8 USB 2.0 ports (4 front / 4 rear)
1 1394 (rear / miniport)
1 HDMI port (rear)
1 VGA port (rear)
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD

for $899

They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.

If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.

The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.

Depends on the aims of the designer. With in the mini, it seemed to be as much cramming parts into the smallest space possible in addition to making a function computer.

That being said, despite the pitifully small 120GB in the $599 model (250GB should be standard) and the ordeal you have to go through to so much as upgrade the RAM, its a very useful little computer that I would recommend to anyone.
post #61 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaioslider View Post

My guess is that Apple sees the mini as a means to gain market share. Apple really seems to do it's homework when it comes to market research (though it doesn't keep them from trying unknowns ie Cube). I can see this machine to be ideal for switchers, those who have used a PC all their lives, maybe lured to take a look at the mac b/c of the iPhone. It's a toe in the water kinda thing. Today a Mac Mini, tomorrow a 24" iMac, MacBook, or Mac Pro. I'd say that once you can get them to start using Mac OS X, you pretty much got'em.

You hit the nail on the head! I started with a MacMini (very first edition in 2005) to do a "trial run" of OS X (was dual-booting Windows and Linux before) to see if I wanted to stay invested in that platform. Despite the slowness of new Java releases on the platform, I was hooked but after a year I realized the MacMini was not powerful enough for my needs. I upgraded to more powerful hardware and gave my mom the MacMini. She's still using it to this day, which shows you how good the shelf life of Macs are vs. Windows PCs.
post #62 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

VAT ≠ Apple Tax
Import Tax ≠ Apple Tax
Exchange Rate ≠ Apple Tax

i agree with you mate but somehow all the other companies make it throught and sell in europe and usa at the same price (ok dell doesn't make it actually too :P)

this" apple tax" start the flame
post #63 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The Hitachi 120GByte 2.5-inch-format HDD comes in at an estimated price of $46

??? Hitachi Travelstar 160GB SATA1 2.5"ers retail for $44.99, Seagate Momentus 7200rpm SATAII 160GB 2.5"ers retail at $54.99.
Are the rest of these supposedly volume wholesale price estimates as ridiculously overestimated?
post #64 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsirko View Post

i agree with you mate but somehow all the other companies make it throught and sell in europe and usa at the same price (ok dell doesn't make it actually too :P)

this" apple tax" start the flame

Without using the hyperbolic term, I haven't seen any proof of Apple charging more in their end simply because of it's outside the US. There are some cost differences for keyboard, power outlets, packagings and fees for getting electronics approved for use, but I've never seen that discussed and I'd imagine that such differences are minor overall.

From a business standpoint it simply doesn't make sense to do determine a net profit for Europe than the US. I'd even
expect the net profit for Macs outside the US may be slightly less in areas to help boost adoption.

I can't speak for other companies as a whole, you know if you buy a current MBP in the US or elsewhere it will have the same internals. I know some companies use different model numbers so they alter the HW as needed fix their profitf for that region/country. I think ATI or Nvidia once did this with GPUs for Windows v. Macs where both cards cost the same but the Mac version was less powerful to adjust for the lower sales volume.
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post #65 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

Personally, I believe it costs Apple less to make the $599 Mac mini than iSuppli estimates.
K

Me too, I don't believe the iSuppli cost estimates are correct.

A few checks:
- $46 for a 120Gb drive??? Even I, buying only one, would think this is a bad deal. I can buy an external 2.5" 320Gb WD drive for $65! That includes the enclosure and this is a retail price! So, come on, if Apple had to pay $46 for a bare 120Gb drive, while buying 100,000+ units, they would have fired their procurement negotiator a long time ago! I would think Apple pays no more than 1/2 that price.
- Same thing for the 1Gb of RAM at $10. I can buy 4Gb for $20 to $25 if I look for a good deal, so Apple must pay much less than that.
- The cost shown for the processor doesn't seem right either. I know it is a portable processor, but the 2Ghz model is plain vanilla these days...
- $65 for the graphics chip? Just the chip bought by the millions? I don't believe it!

All those costs might have been true 2 years ago! But today, they look more like the price the average Joe would have to pay for the parts to build a custom machine (not that he could possibly assemble a Mac mini, though, I am just talking about component prices).

The only thing that I find surprisingly low in iSuppli estimates are the Manufacturing Costs, $10.94! If this is true, it's really scary for the employees who build the Mac mini...

But overall, I am convinced that the margin Apple makes on the Mac mini is much better than announced by iSuppli!

EDIT: I see that other posters agree with me already on some posts I missed...
post #66 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How exactly are they building it wrong because they choose to build to a small, low-power machine with notebook-grade parts? That is there choice, just as its any other PC OEMs choice to use the HW they choose

I wonder why Apple chose to use notebook components, especially the hard disk. It's not like Mac mini needs to be that small. Make it a bit larger, like Time Capsule and AEBS are and use cheaper desktop components to bring the price down and/or increase margin.
post #67 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamsAftershave View Post

??? Hitachi Travelstar 160GB SATA1 2.5"ers retail for $44.99, Seagate Momentus 7200rpm SATAII 160GB 2.5"ers retail at $54.99.
Are the rest of these supposedly volume wholesale price estimates as ridiculously overestimated?

A valid point.

If Suppli's estimates are on the mark, however, Apple's product margin for Mac Minis really is on the low side within the computer industry. People who don't understand terminology like "gross margin" or how these numbers work should study a basic Introduction to Accounting text. Also, remember that the $599.99 listed retail price includes a cut for the retailer, whether that be Best Buy or Apple Stores. You have to treat the retailing function as a separate business from manufacturing, whether the retailer is part of Apple or is a third party.

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post #68 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by eVolut View Post

Me too, I don't believe the iSuppli cost estimates are correct.

A few checks:
- $46 for a 120Gb drive??? Even I, buying only one, would think this is a bad deal. I can buy an external 2.5" 320Gb WD drive for $65! That includes the enclosure and this is a retail price! So, come on, if Apple had to pay $46 for a bare 120Gb drive, while buying 100,000+ units, they would have fired their procurement negotiator a long time ago! I would think Apple pays no more than 1/2 that price.
- Same thing for the 1Gb of RAM at $10. I can buy 4Gb for $20 to $25 if I look for a good deal, so Apple must pay much less than that.
- The cost shown for the processor doesn't seem right either. I know it is a portable processor, but the 2Ghz model is plain vanilla these days...
- $65 for the graphics chip? Just the chip bought by the millions? I don't believe it!

All those costs might have been true 2 years ago! But today, they look more like the price the average Joe would have to pay for the parts to build a custom machine (not that he could possibly assemble a Mac mini, though, I am just talking about component prices).

The only thing that I find surprisingly low in iSuppli estimates are the Manufacturing Costs, $10.94! If this is true, it's really scary for the employees who build the Mac mini...

But overall, I am convinced that the margin Apple makes on the Mac mini is much better than announced by iSuppli!

EDIT: I see that other posters agree with me already on some posts I missed...


apple uses parts with magic pixie dust, which is why it's more expensive
post #69 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

I wonder why Apple chose to use notebook components, especially the hard disk. It's not like Mac mini needs to be that small. Make it a bit larger, like Time Capsule and AEBS are and use cheaper desktop components to bring the price down and/or increase margin.

R&D costs are lower since they use those drivers in their notebooks, bulk purhasesnof more notebook-grade components, shorter lifetime of use forcing switchers to upgrade sooner. There is a lot we an speculate about the reasoning, but unique aspect of the Mac Mini is how long Apple let it sit without an update. So long that it was assumed many times over that Apple would be droping the line. It seems that people they tend to be interested in the Mac Mini may be gping for the form factor over anything else. While the HDD wouldn't last me a week I do know people with 40GB drives that are from being filled. Whatever Apple's reasoning their focus for the Mini is not designed for any of us.
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post #70 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by patroll View Post

The reason that you always see bias is because of your perspective which is that of an individual end customer with unique requirements.

Many people who admire Apple and say in these forums that "it can do no wrong", say that from either the perspective of an investor (in Apple stock) or of a student of business.

The reason I see bias is because there is bias.
When someone says for 2 years that the iPhone doesn't need or want MMS, video, or cut and paste and then champions it only because Apple then provides it, how else do you make a deduction and what do you call it? When posters defend Apple's ommission of firewire on a MAcBook and it gets added back on and won't admit Apple made a mistake- what do you call that? The same thing for matte screens. Remember - they were supposed to be nevermore according to the fanboys because Apple wasn't giving them. The comes the 17"- and it gets matte. And watch the others will also get matte(I'd bet) because it is far superior (glare does suck) regardless of fanboys assertion that noobody wants matte. They only say what Apple currently provides is what you need. Meanwhile netbooks sales are through the roof yet fanboys were saying, whenever I mentioned it, that a small formed device between 7-11" was no good - the MBA was all we needed. Then the rumours leaked and they all embrace it. It is a very sad train of thought actually.
The term is real and alive.
post #71 of 201
"Razor-thin" component margins of over $200 on a $600 product? Thats around 30% depending on how accurate the cost assessment is. 25-30%? That's NOT EVEN CLOSE to "razor-thin" --- That is a far larger margin than most PC manufacturers who have margins in the 10-15% range!
post #72 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi View Post

Apple make about 70-80% profit in the UK, about 40% profit in the US (before marketing, distribution etc). Dell on the other hand make 6.5% (net) profit, HP 5%.

Congratulations. You win the inane post of the week award.

Why are you comparing Apple's GROSS margins to Dell and HP's NET margins?

Furthermore, where do you come up with the 70-80% figure? Apple publishes these figures - as required by law. Their worldwide gross margin is 35% and their net is around 15%.

Of course, margins like those are simply an indication that their product is perceived as being worth more than cheap, generic junk. Maybe this is why:
http://www.macsurfer.com/redir.php?u=418206

I get really tired of people complaining about margins. First, if you want to talk about margins, why aren't you comparing Apple to Microsoft - at 80% gross margin and 35% operating margin? Second, margin is irrelevant to the consumer. If you think a product is worth $xxx, you buy it. If you think it's not worth $xxx, you don't. No one is forcing you to buy the product. The company is then responsible for pricing its product in such a way as to maximize shareholder return.
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post #73 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi View Post

The Mac Mini increased by £100+ here in the UK, which stopped me buying one...

It's $822 in the UK and $628.95 in the US (both prices including tax) - paying 30% more to buy in the UK hardly seems justified.

This international price comparison argument is recurrent and quite misplaced

First: you must compare prices before tax. The price differential due to taxes is none of Apple business. In addition, you may have included sales tax, but what about custom duties? Do you even know what they are?

Second: The final retail price includes distribution costs, and those are certainly less in the US given that Apple volumes are higher in the US, and generally speaking the distribution system is more efficient and less costly there.

Third: Apple does not change their prices everyday, while you are certainly using today's exchange rate in your calculations. In the case of Apple, they must protect themselves from currency variations, so they exchange rate they are using is not the same as yours.

Finally, an argument that actually overrides the previous ones: we live in a market economy. The price Apple decides to charge in each country is their own marketing decision, not your desire. They can charge whatever price the market will bear according their sales objectives in that country. There is no law that forces Apple, or any vendor, to sell the same goods at the same equivalent prices to everybody, worldwide! On the basis of what principle would Apple have such constraints?
There always seems top be this false belief that the retail price of something should be solely based on costs. Not! Rather, the price is optimized based on how much money a vendor can and expects to make. If they price too low, they don't make money, if they price too high, they don't make money either!

And if you were in the market to buy a Mac mini, if you find a price differential that you can exploit, by all means, take advantage of it! Buy the computer in the US and have it shipped. Or decide not to buy at all! You will be doing the market economy a favor!
It is because the consumer ultimately votes with their wallet and buy what they want and where they want, that the market eventually finds prices for everything (everything that is not regulated). This IS the market economy!
post #74 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Fan boy is a stupid term because its used so broadly. A fanboy is someone who stands up and claps when steve jobs enters a room. A fanboy is someone who waits 8 yrs to play high end games because he won;t touch msft ever. a FANBOY NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY HATES BILL GATES AND MSFT.
a fanboy is loyal will also say apple is wrong <<very rare > when apple is wrong.
a fanboy loves stve jobs and wants him healed .
I AM A FAN BOY and proud of it .

I agree. I use "fanboy" very sparingly and less frequently and it is usually preceeded by being called a troll (now that's a real silly term unless we were in Middle Earth). I really now prefer the term Applebot- he/she can really no longer think for themselves- it's all Apple doctrine or nothing.
post #75 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Congratulations. You win the inane post of the week award.

Why are you comparing Apple's GROSS margins to Dell and HP's NET margins?

Furthermore, where do you come up with the 70-80% figure? Apple publishes these figures - as required by law. Their worldwide gross margin is 35% and their net is around 15%.

Of course, margins like those are simply an indication that their product is perceived as being worth more than cheap, generic junk. Maybe this is why:
http://www.macsurfer.com/redir.php?u=418206

I get really tired of people complaining about margins. First, if you want to talk about margins, why aren't you comparing Apple to Microsoft - at 80% gross margin and 35% operating margin? Second, margin is irrelevant to the consumer. If you think a product is worth $xxx, you buy it. If you think it's not worth $xxx, you don't. No one is forcing you to buy the product. The company is then responsible for pricing its product in such a way as to maximize shareholder return.

Well said!
post #76 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

"Razor-thin" component margins of over $200 on a $600 product? Thats around 30% depending on how accurate the cost assessment is. 25-30%? That's NOT EVEN CLOSE to "razor-thin" --- That is a far larger margin than most PC manufacturers who have margins in the 10-15% range!

That's funny - I thought the same thing but didn't want to stir up the pot.
post #77 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Because a PC is composed of only a CPU and GPU and because all Intel and Nvidia components are exactly the same in price and performance.

Your kidding right ?

9
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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beatles
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post #78 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

R&D costs are lower since they use those drivers in their notebooks, bulk purhasesnof more notebook-grade components, shorter lifetime of use forcing switchers to upgrade sooner.

R&D for what? Selecting which hard disk to use? And Apple uses 3.5" SATA for iMac, Mac Pro, and xServe in more than sufficient enough quantity for bulk pricing. As for the durability of 2.5" SATA, they share the same density as the 3.5". 2.5" disks have worse reputation only because they are used on notebooks which are frequently moved from one place to another, often while they are spinning. Besides, many servers use 2.5" disks now.
post #79 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Your kidding right ?

My emoticons reveal sarcasm.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #80 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

apple uses parts with magic pixie dust, which is why it's more expensive


hush hush
the elves want quiet
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beatles
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