Question about VM's (not parallels)

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Hello! This is my first post.



I am planning on getting a Mac Pro desktop that is fast enough that it can handle running a VM in OSX without any trouble. What I want to know is does there exist a VM software that can access more than 256mb of the video card? Parallels doesn't allow you to access more than 256 unfortunately.



What I want to do is 3d rendering - not to create images but to create models that can be 3d printed or made in a CNC mill. The software I want to use is Rhino 4, which is a Windows thing. I got it first and then had a falling out with PC's in general. Thats why I want to run it on a mac if I can.



The machine I am interested in is an 8-core monster workstation. The idea was I would split the system resources between the 3d rendering and the Mac itself, or at least give the VM a lot of the system resources. Also the machine would have all of those cores and all of that RAM so that it could handle rendering/drafting at the same time as I would be doing everything else, including downloading torrents, using FF, word processing, using PS and illustrator, running itunes, and/or running a video or movie.



I've posed this question about the VM softwares to other mac forums as well as to friends of mine in the model building and sculpting community and all they know is that Parallels tops out at 256mb of the video card.



Can you advise? Thanks!

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 12
    You'd probably be better off just installing whatever variation of Windows you want through BootCamp.

    That way you can take advantage of all of the system's resources.
  • Reply 2 of 12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post


    You'd probably be better off just installing whatever variation of Windows you want through BootCamp.

    That way you can take advantage of all of the system's resources.





    This is true. Still I'd like to see if its possible to do it this way first. The way I use any given computer is I have many things open at once and I'm shifting between all of them all the time. It would cramp my style, as it were, to be doing only the 3d rendering while in Windows and then have to switch back to OSX to do everything else. Granted I could have a shared folder in which I keep all of my music so I can at least listen to that while I'm doing the rendering, but still I'd rather try to do it in OSX first if i can.
  • Reply 3 of 12
    What about stuffing all the neccessary Windows software on a USB stick, hopping on over to an Apple Store or reputable reseller, and asking them to install it all on an octo-core MacPro loaded with RAM and top-end video/graphics cards, and a couple huge HDs, to show you IRL that it'll all work the way you like?

    After all, that setup, when complete with (2?) Cinema Display(s), and the absolutely necessary external back up RAID HD systems will set you back well upwards of 10 grand. It would be nice to know firsthand if it will do what you want before you pull your credit card.



    Do you buy the car your bar buddies all swoon about sight unseen, or do you test drive it yourself before you decide for yourself?
  • Reply 4 of 12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rokcet Scientist View Post


    What about stuffing all the neccessary Windows software on a USB stick, hopping on over to an Apple Store or reputable reseller, and asking them to install it all on an octo-core MacPro loaded with RAM and top-end video/graphics cards, and a couple huge HDs, to show you IRL that it'll all work the way you like?

    After all, that setup, when complete with (2?) Cinema Display(s), and the absolutely necessary external back up RAID HD systems will set you back well upwards of 10 grand. It would be nice to know firsthand if it will do what you want before you pull your credit card.



    Do you buy the car your bar buddies all swoon about sight unseen, or do you test drive it yourself before you decide for yourself?



    Good point except I don't think the Apple store people will have a VM running on an in-store machine. Am I wrong?



    Meanwhile, why are the other things necessary? I was expecting that the machine would be a little less than 5 grand; no RAID HD, 1 HD screen that I'd get elsewhere...the external backup RAID HD - they make those external (i.e. USB, right?) now?



    at those prices I might as well try and get a Hackintosh, or just a Windows PC.



    The idea of taking my windows things to the mac store on a USB stick is a good one, 'cept all i'd need to do at the apple store is find out the limits of the VM software.
  • Reply 5 of 12
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,177moderator
    Maybe try and get hold of the beta version of Rhino for Mac OS X:



    http://community.irhino3d.com/



    "We need feedback from both expert and new Rhino users.



    We are willing to spend whatever time and effort it takes to get this right, but we need you to tell us what is wrong. During development, pre-release Rhino OS X is free to anyone willing to provide feedback.



    If you are interested, please fill out this application."



    Still has a long way to go but perhaps it will allow you to do what you need. The Mac Pro is a good choice for hardware even if you have to run Windows natively in the short term and will be among the fastest personal computers you can buy for the price.
  • Reply 6 of 12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Maybe try and get hold of the beta version of Rhino for Mac OS X:



    http://community.irhino3d.com/



    "We need feedback from both expert and new Rhino users.



    This web site tells you everything except what Rhino actually does. A slight oversight. Mind filling us in?
  • Reply 7 of 12
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,177moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    This web site tells you everything except what Rhino actually does. A slight oversight. Mind filling us in?



    Rhino is 3D modelling software like Maya, Cinema 4D etc but it's known more for it's NURBs tools, which other apps tend to do badly. NURBs are good for product design over subdivs/polys. The Windows software is documented here:



    http://www.rhino3d.com/
  • Reply 8 of 12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Maybe try and get hold of the beta version of Rhino for Mac OS X:



    http://community.irhino3d.com/



    "We need feedback from both expert and new Rhino users.



    We are willing to spend whatever time and effort it takes to get this right, but we need you to tell us what is wrong. During development, pre-release Rhino OS X is free to anyone willing to provide feedback.



    If you are interested, please fill out this application."



    Still has a long way to go but perhaps it will allow you to do what you need. The Mac Pro is a good choice for hardware even if you have to run Windows natively in the short term and will be among the fastest personal computers you can buy for the price.



    Sounds great to me except now I have a copy of Rhino for windows that may soon become superfluous. Nuts.



    I'm glad that the mac pro will be the best bet. I'm awfully fond of it.
  • Reply 9 of 12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spacephrawg View Post


    This is true. Still I'd like to see if its possible to do it this way first. The way I use any given computer is I have many things open at once and I'm shifting between all of them all the time. It would cramp my style, as it were, to be doing only the 3d rendering while in Windows and then have to switch back to OSX to do everything else. Granted I could have a shared folder in which I keep all of my music so I can at least listen to that while I'm doing the rendering, but still I'd rather try to do it in OSX first if i can.





    Here's what I think your choices in performance in order are:



    1: Direct boot of Windows, no other programs running while rendering



    2: Direct boot of Windows, some other programs running while rendering.



    3: Direct boot of OS X, Windows and rendering run under VM software, no other programs running.



    4: Direct boot of OS X, Windows and rendering run under VM software, other programs running.





    Now another thing to consider is if your rending is by CPU or GPU, and if by CPU, how many cores can your rendering software can handle. Also how many cores and how much memory can the version of Windows your using can handle. You should be using the 64 bit versions, but it usually requires 64 bit version versions of the rendering software too.





    Now I know that VmWare Fusion can take a Bootcamped Windows partition and make a virtual machine in OS X. So what you can do is install Windows via Bootcamp and try out which one is faster.



    If you do so, use the same file and take notes of the time.



    Send the information to the performance websites: Barefeats and AccelerateYourMac, they would be very interested in your findings.



    Also check out VmWare's Fusion 3, should be better in the performance department, also don't let Windows on the internet except for updating. Go back to OS X for that, it's much much safer.



    Also use Firefox instead of IE or Safari.
  • Reply 10 of 12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Now I know that VmWare Fusion can take a Bootcamped Windows partition and make a virtual machine in OS X. So what you can do is install Windows via Bootcamp and try out which one is faster.



    Wait... are you saying it's possible that a virtual machine could perform better than Bootcamp?
  • Reply 11 of 12
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Here's what I think your choices in performance in order are:



    1: Direct boot of Windows, no other programs running while rendering



    2: Direct boot of Windows, some other programs running while rendering.



    3: Direct boot of OS X, Windows and rendering run under VM software, no other programs running.



    4: Direct boot of OS X, Windows and rendering run under VM software, other programs running.



    option 5: Run Windows in Bootcamp then OSX in VMWare...



    http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/in.../Vmware_how_to



    http://blog.rectalogic.com/2008/08/v...rd-client.html



    http://www.online-tech-tips.com/mac-...leopard-on-pc/



    http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-ins...ows-7-9140301/



    That would be an amusing solution. I looked in the current license agreement and didn't see anything about virtualization but I believe you can only run OSX server in a VM and it may be the SLA requires that the host OS be OSX. So you may need to use SL-server unless you want to hackintosh your own mac.



    Your best option is to ask to Rhino to exchange your Windows license for an OSX one after the OSX ships in exchange for being a guinea pig during the beta period.
  • Reply 12 of 12
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,177moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spacephrawg View Post


    Sounds great to me except now I have a copy of Rhino for windows that may soon become superfluous. Nuts.



    Not necessarily, as Vinea points out you will probably get a cross-license solution. It's noted on the website but it says the exact details haven't been worked out. You shouldn't have to sell your copy for Windows and then buy the Mac version.
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