Wow, there are so many "children" who hang out in the comments section on AppleInsider. It's just amazing.
They're children posing as smart people, but just demonstrating they can't sort out the complex world they supposedly work in. It's a testament to the complexity of the Information Age, and the fact that people just don't think about the need to "study a subject before commenting."
The author of this article has done his homework, and the children who hang out in the comments section should be good students and do the same.
To be fair Daniel is pretty biased at times. His table graphs are always slanted to make Apple look good, even if he's not aware he's doing it.
Because unlike the 160k per day that are choosing Android. I have a contract with AT&T.
I have 1 more month. I won't wait foriPhone OS Promises 4.0.
I can get that phone next month. With the numbers of sales and Android is has I'd be like I was in 1994 and stuck in a dying Market Share.
Apple may be great for stock holders but it's horrible at moving forward when they have an Advantage. History and now the current numbers are proof of that.
Good luck with the future and make sure you have Apple Care on your computers because you'll need it given Apple's trend for the last 10 years.
By the way...
How long has Steve Jobs been with Apple? I wonder why he was fired. Mac's don't "just work" anymore.
Go away. You are not positive contribution to this or any discussion.
Wow, there are so many "children" who hang out in the comments section on AppleInsider. It's just amazing.
They're children posing as smart people, but just demonstrating they can't sort out the complex world they supposedly work in. It's a testament to the complexity of the Information Age, and the fact that people just don't think about the need to "study a subject before commenting."
The author of this article has done his homework, and the children who hang out in the comments section should be good students and do the same.
If the author had done his homework he would know that the iPhone is not multicore and that the graphics part it's done by a GPU.
If the author had done his homework he would know that the iPhone can't do voice and data simultaneously while in EDGE or GPRS. It's not a problem of a terminal, but of the network.
If the author had done his homework he would know that runnig more than one application at the same time doesn't implies that you can install viruses or malware.
To be fair Daniel is pretty biased at times. His table graphs are always slanted to make Apple look good, even if he's not aware he's doing it.
To be fair, you can make your own tables with your own data and post them in response, if you believe he is so inaccurate. I think it's more common that TROLLS do not like seeing Apple positive graphs because it, "just doesn't make sense."
To be fair Daniel is pretty biased at times. His table graphs are always slanted to make Apple look good, even if he's not aware he's doing it.
Putting his bias aside, he actually makes valid points. I have read many of his articles, and I think that he just goes to the core of the matter and illustrates it, even if he might be a fanboy
But to get back to the topic:
I hope Apple will implement some kind of multitasking in OS 4, but not the way WinMo and Android have done it. I like the idea about thread-saving or application suspension, to make sure that the state of the application is saved, but without giving it any processing time. For the apps that require processing time, I hope they come up with something like mini-processes, which do simple stuff with limited resources.
IMO the most difficult part in this is the UI, as you would need an easy way to now what is running in the background, or which applications are suspended.
I don't buy the arguments against multi-tasking at all.
Battery Life - It's my choice if I multi-task or not, and as my iPhone 3G has already used half of it's battery by the time I get to work I have no choice but to plug it into the mains anyway.
Memory - Would it be so hard to bring up a little pop-up which asks me if it can quit other running apps to free up RAM?
Can't see what's running in the background - Make the icon of a running program glow or be highlighted somehow. If I tap on it, it pops right up, if I hold on it, I can kill it. A simple double tap of the home button or a gesture of some kind could flip between running apps.
Bottom line, multi-tasking has been standard on computers for decades now. The iPhone is, so I'm told, a portable computer, so it must learn to multi-task. Not being able to listen to Last FM and read an IM is simply retarded.
Another approach to delivering multitasking-related functionality without opening a Pandora's Box of security and malware problems would be to enable the system to retain the state of currently running app so that users could very quickly switch between apps.
First off, this functionality is already built into the OS X kernel and has been since day dot. It's dead easy to 'freeze' a currently running process and then start it running again sometime later. You can try this for yourself:
Open two terminal windows
In one of them run 'vm_stat 1'. This will produce a constantly updating list of virtual memory statistics at 1 second intervals
In the other Terminal window type: 'killall -STOP vm_stat'
Have a look at the vm_stat output now. It just stops. You will probably also see a message saying "[1]+ Stopped" because stopping a processes like this forces it to become a shell background process as well.
Back in the command Terminal, type: killall -CONT vm_stat
The vm_stat process will start running again, continuing from where it left off.
To get rid of vm_stat completely either type "fg" to bring the process to the foreground and then terminate with ^C, or just close the Terminal window.
Quote:
This would enhance the iPhone OS's existing, simple model of switching between apps without introducing a drain on the system's processor, memory, and battery life, as only one primary app would still ever be running at once.
Um you're correct to say it wouldn't introduce a drain on the system's processor and battery life, but you're wrong about the memory. Have you ever seen demos of other multitasking phones where someone tries to start an application and gets an "out of memory" message instead? Stopped/paused/frozen processes are still going to hang around in memory unless there's a specific action to save that used system memory in Flash (a.k.a paging out to swap) to make room for the next app. This would introduce a delay in app switching that might be very noticeable due to the general sluggishness of Flash: though there are a number of smart things Apple could do to try and speed up this process.
Because unlike the 160k per day that are choosing Android. I have a contract with AT&T.
I have 1 more month. I won't wait foriPhone OS Promises 4.0.
Wait a minute....
One minute you're saying that Android is 'shipping' 60,000 devices per day, and withing 15 minutes that's risen to 160K/day?
Someone's smoking the Google crack here.
Listen... you hate Apple and the iPhone, and think they should design the thing specifically to meet your niche needs. Fine. Bad mouthing the vast majority of buyers out there (pre-teens?... please....) who want a working appliance rather than a fragile tinker-toy set will make you popular amongst a rapidly shrinking percentage of self important elitists. Enjoy their company... those of us with lives to live instead of science kit project phones to worship will stay en masse with the device that is solid. That would be the iPhone for me.
I hear there's a lot of space over one the AndroidInsider site.
Can anyone point me to any Windows Mobile or Android virus or I can talk about another FUD, erroneous and bashing article of our beloved Daniel Eran Dilger?
Especially the line where Steve says he could literally take a shit in his own hand and sell it. I know you guys have Apple right in your title, but try to be at least a little objective? Your defending the iPhones lack of a feature as a feature itself.
I find Apple's mobile OS to be little more than an app/widget launcher rather than (what many have come to know as) an actual operating system, so multi-tasking on such a 'modal' platform really isn't all that compelling given the associated limitations as dictated by its core mission, which is to run one app/widget at a time.[/CENTER]
Really? "You find". You don'T understand the OS, so what you find isn't what's there. you're the only one who seems to want us to believe this. Even those who prefer other phones wouldn't say such a thing.
Give me a break. The iPhone has almost the same specs (with a larger hard drive) than my 10-year old Dell and that could multitask. Apple could very well develop a better system than the Pre for memory management.
I'm sure you see the obvious and clear difference in the every day usage of that old desktop vs a phone.
Quote:
This idea that their is not enough memory or battery life is garbage. It has already been shown in tests that, with a jailbroken 3GS, someone could have 5 apps running in the background with no noticeable lag. It can run with lag 10-12 apps (some games included) in the background. Check out the justanotheriphoneblog's testing of Multifl0w. If you are running something like iStat on your 3GS, check out the memory usage. You will find that you are using very little of the 256MB of RAM it has.
You cannot really just make a blanket statement because every app does not function the same way and every app does not use system resources the same way. Some developers will be better skilled at making their app run more efficiently than others.
The point is if/when Apple allows multitasking it will be with rules that force developers to do all of the hard work so that the end user does not have to deal with allocating system resources at all.
This is your opinion. It doesn't make it correct. Android has lots of problems. In a couple of years, every manufacturer will have its own version that will only be partly compatible with the others. It's been happening already. Google has already sent out a notice on how to program for the different versions, and as you said, Android is just getting started.
So true. Not too mention the first evidence of malware on the android marketplace are beginning to crop up.
Plus, no ones even mentioned how difficult tech support is to come by for these phones.
Personally, I live my iPhone for all the qualities others claim are detractors. My phone has literally all the information of my life stored on it. All my contacts, all my emails, my account information, my location habits, EVERYTHING. Personally, when it comes to a phone, the last thing I want is an open marketplace and an open process arena for Trojans and keyreaders and the like. Other than the obvious pandora, I've never once thought to myself, damn if only I were multitasking this would be such a better experience.
The only major change I'd be interested in would be concurrent apps, where closing one app just saves it's current state. If there's enough ram for this to be an option, irbetter yet a way for the developers to just save the current state to the flash drive, that would speed up the time it takes for me to say, leave a news reader, type a chat, and re-enter the article in 1-2 secs rather than 5. Not a huge issue, but could be fun.
The last things I ever want on my phone are physical keyboards, open app stores, open multi-tasking or multiple drastically different hardware platforms running the sane hardware. All of this barely works on PCs with their driver issues (still plague vista and 7), malware and virus attacks, completely freezing up decent computers with too many concurrent process, etc. Why port those issues to phones when all of the diendildes are totally unacceptable in a mobile environment
No I think it was a valid reference and not condending. I don't think I'm superior because of my tech skills and most of friends are actually non-techies. But there is irony of tech savvy people on this forum who eagerly hail even the smallest improvement in the iPhone who then say it doesn't need something as useful as multitasking.
I'm not interested in any of that crap you mentioned. I love my iPhone 3G and my MBP unibody. If Apple made a mid range tower, I'd buy it in a second. But I can't help but notice all the Orwellian doublethink that goes on among Mac fans and I point it out. Two years ago these people were saying Apple didn't need to allow third party apps, now they celebrate the app store as the defining feature. As for your condescending remarks - you spend all day on a computer forum, reading every post and replying at length. Nuff said. Some of us have a life.
If you had a life then why are you arguing something like this here?
You might notice, in that life, that Pre fans, Android fans, Win Mobile fans, and others are ALL thinking their phones are best, and wishing away the negatives.
To be fair, you can make your own tables with your own data and post them in response, if you believe he is so inaccurate. I think it's more common that TROLLS do not like seeing Apple positive graphs because it, "just doesn't make sense."
I love my iPhone but I also understand that what makes it so special can't be explained in a table. Daniel tries and fails. His tables are always full of bias, cherry picking and curiously missing data.
The table in this article is incredibly flawed:
It fails to include the two biggest (by marketshare) smartphone platforms.
It mixes up operating system capabilities with network capabilities. This is akin to saying that a Ferrarri has a maximum speed of 70mph because that's the national speed limit.
States that PalmOS can't multitask when, in fact, its kernel can and does. Hence its ability to receive a call whilst doing another task. Multitasking on PalmOS just isn't open to 3rd party apps, just like the iPhone.
Umm why are you here? It seems like you like to bash on Apple... Idk but that is the vibes I'm receiving from you.
If you add his name to your Ignore list, it is amazing how much more page space is gained when an 'Ignored' member is reduced to a 'one-liner'.
Admittedly, I do read the comments made to my 'Ignore' listed such as yours. It helps me decide who to add to the list.
Now if there was a way to automatically 'one-line' your reply for example so I never have to see any of the 'ignoreder's' original posting unless I want to.
And why someone has to ask a geek how to use the Droid?
It's a geek phone thats marketed as a geek phone, but mostly to masculine geeks. Its operation isn't as obvious as many others according to some reviews. Certainly not nearly as obvious as the iPhone.
The video is poor. Agreed that the presentation was not very good this time, as they have been showing of the same features at every presentation since the iPhone came out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo
Your defending the iPhones lack of a feature as a feature itself.
Nope. We are just saying that no body wants Multitasking the way it is done on other platforms. And if you read the article carefully, I think it states that some kind of "multitasking" is needed, but this word has come to have a lot of different meanings. And the author points out the meanings we would want to get implemented, as well as those we don't want.
I wonder why Symbian and Blackberry OS (the 1st and 2nd most popular smartphone platforms) were left off the table.
Talk about cherry picking data.
And let's get real about this "can't handle voice and data simultaneously" BS. That's a limitation of the network, not the OS. Why is it included on a table listing operating systems? It's irrelevant. If we are going down that rather dubious route then why is there no mention of the fact that most GPRS/EDGE networks can't handle voice and data simultaneously either?
It is a limitation of the networks, as was made clear in the chart.
Comments
Excellent article.
Wow, there are so many "children" who hang out in the comments section on AppleInsider. It's just amazing.
They're children posing as smart people, but just demonstrating they can't sort out the complex world they supposedly work in. It's a testament to the complexity of the Information Age, and the fact that people just don't think about the need to "study a subject before commenting."
The author of this article has done his homework, and the children who hang out in the comments section should be good students and do the same.
To be fair Daniel is pretty biased at times. His table graphs are always slanted to make Apple look good, even if he's not aware he's doing it.
Because unlike the 160k per day that are choosing Android. I have a contract with AT&T.
I have 1 more month. I won't wait foriPhone OS Promises 4.0.
I can get that phone next month. With the numbers of sales and Android is has I'd be like I was in 1994 and stuck in a dying Market Share.
Apple may be great for stock holders but it's horrible at moving forward when they have an Advantage. History and now the current numbers are proof of that.
Good luck with the future and make sure you have Apple Care on your computers because you'll need it given Apple's trend for the last 10 years.
By the way...
How long has Steve Jobs been with Apple? I wonder why he was fired. Mac's don't "just work" anymore.
Go away. You are not positive contribution to this or any discussion.
Excellent article.
Wow, there are so many "children" who hang out in the comments section on AppleInsider. It's just amazing.
They're children posing as smart people, but just demonstrating they can't sort out the complex world they supposedly work in. It's a testament to the complexity of the Information Age, and the fact that people just don't think about the need to "study a subject before commenting."
The author of this article has done his homework, and the children who hang out in the comments section should be good students and do the same.
If the author had done his homework he would know that the iPhone is not multicore and that the graphics part it's done by a GPU.
If the author had done his homework he would know that the iPhone can't do voice and data simultaneously while in EDGE or GPRS. It's not a problem of a terminal, but of the network.
If the author had done his homework he would know that runnig more than one application at the same time doesn't implies that you can install viruses or malware.
To be fair Daniel is pretty biased at times. His table graphs are always slanted to make Apple look good, even if he's not aware he's doing it.
To be fair, you can make your own tables with your own data and post them in response, if you believe he is so inaccurate. I think it's more common that TROLLS do not like seeing Apple positive graphs because it, "just doesn't make sense."
To be fair Daniel is pretty biased at times. His table graphs are always slanted to make Apple look good, even if he's not aware he's doing it.
Putting his bias aside, he actually makes valid points. I have read many of his articles, and I think that he just goes to the core of the matter and illustrates it, even if he might be a fanboy
But to get back to the topic:
I hope Apple will implement some kind of multitasking in OS 4, but not the way WinMo and Android have done it. I like the idea about thread-saving or application suspension, to make sure that the state of the application is saved, but without giving it any processing time. For the apps that require processing time, I hope they come up with something like mini-processes, which do simple stuff with limited resources.
IMO the most difficult part in this is the UI, as you would need an easy way to now what is running in the background, or which applications are suspended.
Battery Life - It's my choice if I multi-task or not, and as my iPhone 3G has already used half of it's battery by the time I get to work I have no choice but to plug it into the mains anyway.
Memory - Would it be so hard to bring up a little pop-up which asks me if it can quit other running apps to free up RAM?
Can't see what's running in the background - Make the icon of a running program glow or be highlighted somehow. If I tap on it, it pops right up, if I hold on it, I can kill it. A simple double tap of the home button or a gesture of some kind could flip between running apps.
Bottom line, multi-tasking has been standard on computers for decades now. The iPhone is, so I'm told, a portable computer, so it must learn to multi-task. Not being able to listen to Last FM and read an IM is simply retarded.
State and main
Another approach to delivering multitasking-related functionality without opening a Pandora's Box of security and malware problems would be to enable the system to retain the state of currently running app so that users could very quickly switch between apps.
First off, this functionality is already built into the OS X kernel and has been since day dot. It's dead easy to 'freeze' a currently running process and then start it running again sometime later. You can try this for yourself:
This would enhance the iPhone OS's existing, simple model of switching between apps without introducing a drain on the system's processor, memory, and battery life, as only one primary app would still ever be running at once.
Um you're correct to say it wouldn't introduce a drain on the system's processor and battery life, but you're wrong about the memory. Have you ever seen demos of other multitasking phones where someone tries to start an application and gets an "out of memory" message instead? Stopped/paused/frozen processes are still going to hang around in memory unless there's a specific action to save that used system memory in Flash (a.k.a paging out to swap) to make room for the next app. This would introduce a delay in app switching that might be very noticeable due to the general sluggishness of Flash: though there are a number of smart things Apple could do to try and speed up this process.
Android is for the mature smartphone user. Elegant, Intuitive and a work horse that you can still have fun with.
These are actually the things Android is not.
Why would you buy any pretend iPhone when you can get the real thing?
Because unlike the 160k per day that are choosing Android. I have a contract with AT&T.
I have 1 more month. I won't wait foriPhone OS Promises 4.0.
Wait a minute....
One minute you're saying that Android is 'shipping' 60,000 devices per day, and withing 15 minutes that's risen to 160K/day?
Someone's smoking the Google crack here.
Listen... you hate Apple and the iPhone, and think they should design the thing specifically to meet your niche needs. Fine. Bad mouthing the vast majority of buyers out there (pre-teens?... please....) who want a working appliance rather than a fragile tinker-toy set will make you popular amongst a rapidly shrinking percentage of self important elitists. Enjoy their company... those of us with lives to live instead of science kit project phones to worship will stay en masse with the device that is solid. That would be the iPhone for me.
I hear there's a lot of space over one the AndroidInsider site.
Can anyone point me to any Windows Mobile or Android virus or I can talk about another FUD, erroneous and bashing article of our beloved Daniel Eran Dilger?
http://itvibe.com/news/2734/
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/02...-on-the-loose/
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=337069
http://www.viruslist.com/en/analysis?pubid=204792080
http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ga...d-it-has-begun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr4pPAn-m5g
Especially the line where Steve says he could literally take a shit in his own hand and sell it. I know you guys have Apple right in your title, but try to be at least a little objective? Your defending the iPhones lack of a feature as a feature itself.
[CENTER]To be quite honest...
I find Apple's mobile OS to be little more than an app/widget launcher rather than (what many have come to know as) an actual operating system, so multi-tasking on such a 'modal' platform really isn't all that compelling given the associated limitations as dictated by its core mission, which is to run one app/widget at a time.[/CENTER]
Really? "You find". You don'T understand the OS, so what you find isn't what's there. you're the only one who seems to want us to believe this. Even those who prefer other phones wouldn't say such a thing.
Give me a break. The iPhone has almost the same specs (with a larger hard drive) than my 10-year old Dell and that could multitask. Apple could very well develop a better system than the Pre for memory management.
I'm sure you see the obvious and clear difference in the every day usage of that old desktop vs a phone.
This idea that their is not enough memory or battery life is garbage. It has already been shown in tests that, with a jailbroken 3GS, someone could have 5 apps running in the background with no noticeable lag. It can run with lag 10-12 apps (some games included) in the background. Check out the justanotheriphoneblog's testing of Multifl0w. If you are running something like iStat on your 3GS, check out the memory usage. You will find that you are using very little of the 256MB of RAM it has.
You cannot really just make a blanket statement because every app does not function the same way and every app does not use system resources the same way. Some developers will be better skilled at making their app run more efficiently than others.
The point is if/when Apple allows multitasking it will be with rules that force developers to do all of the hard work so that the end user does not have to deal with allocating system resources at all.
This is your opinion. It doesn't make it correct. Android has lots of problems. In a couple of years, every manufacturer will have its own version that will only be partly compatible with the others. It's been happening already. Google has already sent out a notice on how to program for the different versions, and as you said, Android is just getting started.
So true. Not too mention the first evidence of malware on the android marketplace are beginning to crop up.
Plus, no ones even mentioned how difficult tech support is to come by for these phones.
Personally, I live my iPhone for all the qualities others claim are detractors. My phone has literally all the information of my life stored on it. All my contacts, all my emails, my account information, my location habits, EVERYTHING. Personally, when it comes to a phone, the last thing I want is an open marketplace and an open process arena for Trojans and keyreaders and the like. Other than the obvious pandora, I've never once thought to myself, damn if only I were multitasking this would be such a better experience.
The only major change I'd be interested in would be concurrent apps, where closing one app just saves it's current state. If there's enough ram for this to be an option, irbetter yet a way for the developers to just save the current state to the flash drive, that would speed up the time it takes for me to say, leave a news reader, type a chat, and re-enter the article in 1-2 secs rather than 5. Not a huge issue, but could be fun.
The last things I ever want on my phone are physical keyboards, open app stores, open multi-tasking or multiple drastically different hardware platforms running the sane hardware. All of this barely works on PCs with their driver issues (still plague vista and 7), malware and virus attacks, completely freezing up decent computers with too many concurrent process, etc. Why port those issues to phones when all of the diendildes are totally unacceptable in a mobile environment
No I think it was a valid reference and not condending. I don't think I'm superior because of my tech skills and most of friends are actually non-techies. But there is irony of tech savvy people on this forum who eagerly hail even the smallest improvement in the iPhone who then say it doesn't need something as useful as multitasking.
I'm not interested in any of that crap you mentioned. I love my iPhone 3G and my MBP unibody. If Apple made a mid range tower, I'd buy it in a second. But I can't help but notice all the Orwellian doublethink that goes on among Mac fans and I point it out. Two years ago these people were saying Apple didn't need to allow third party apps, now they celebrate the app store as the defining feature. As for your condescending remarks - you spend all day on a computer forum, reading every post and replying at length. Nuff said. Some of us have a life.
If you had a life then why are you arguing something like this here?
You might notice, in that life, that Pre fans, Android fans, Win Mobile fans, and others are ALL thinking their phones are best, and wishing away the negatives.
To be fair, you can make your own tables with your own data and post them in response, if you believe he is so inaccurate. I think it's more common that TROLLS do not like seeing Apple positive graphs because it, "just doesn't make sense."
I love my iPhone but I also understand that what makes it so special can't be explained in a table. Daniel tries and fails. His tables are always full of bias, cherry picking and curiously missing data.
The table in this article is incredibly flawed:
- It fails to include the two biggest (by marketshare) smartphone platforms.
- It mixes up operating system capabilities with network capabilities. This is akin to saying that a Ferrarri has a maximum speed of 70mph because that's the national speed limit.
- States that PalmOS can't multitask when, in fact, its kernel can and does. Hence its ability to receive a call whilst doing another task. Multitasking on PalmOS just isn't open to 3rd party apps, just like the iPhone.
It's nonsense.Umm why are you here? It seems like you like to bash on Apple... Idk but that is the vibes I'm receiving from you.
If you add his name to your Ignore list, it is amazing how much more page space is gained when an 'Ignored' member is reduced to a 'one-liner'.
Admittedly, I do read the comments made to my 'Ignore' listed such as yours. It helps me decide who to add to the list.
Now if there was a way to automatically 'one-line' your reply for example so I never have to see any of the 'ignoreder's' original posting unless I want to.
And why someone has to ask a geek how to use the Droid?
It's a geek phone thats marketed as a geek phone, but mostly to masculine geeks. Its operation isn't as obvious as many others according to some reviews. Certainly not nearly as obvious as the iPhone.
And this is why I rarely take AI articles seriously. I am reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr4pPAn-m5g
The video is poor. Agreed that the presentation was not very good this time, as they have been showing of the same features at every presentation since the iPhone came out.
Your defending the iPhones lack of a feature as a feature itself.
Nope. We are just saying that no body wants Multitasking the way it is done on other platforms. And if you read the article carefully, I think it states that some kind of "multitasking" is needed, but this word has come to have a lot of different meanings. And the author points out the meanings we would want to get implemented, as well as those we don't want.
I wonder why Symbian and Blackberry OS (the 1st and 2nd most popular smartphone platforms) were left off the table.
Talk about cherry picking data.
And let's get real about this "can't handle voice and data simultaneously" BS. That's a limitation of the network, not the OS. Why is it included on a table listing operating systems? It's irrelevant. If we are going down that rather dubious route then why is there no mention of the fact that most GPRS/EDGE networks can't handle voice and data simultaneously either?
It is a limitation of the networks, as was made clear in the chart.