Piazza v. Pudge

groveratgroverat
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
The other thread has been derailed enough.



Vent your angst here.



[edit]



Piazza very well might be in the hall of fame eventually, but there's no way in hell he deserves it, he's not an all-around player, he's a slugger. It's like putting a goddam DH in the hall-of-fame.



He can block balls, ooooh so can a fence, but I could steal on him. Put their stats side-by-side, it's embarrasing.



'99 to present:



Piazza:

Stolen Bases Allowed: 353

Caught Stealing: 105

Batting Average: .324



Pudge:

Stolen Bases Allowed: 80

Caught Stealing: 95

Batting Average: .303



Which one do you want behind the plate?



[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 10
    exercise in frivolityexercise in frivolity Posts: 233member
    I definitely would want pudge. I had piazza on my team (the dodgers) for quite a few years and believe me I'm glad we got rid of him long ago. Not only is he a terrible defensive catcher, but he is also a cancer in the clubhouse.



    Hey, what do you think of our new rising star Paul Lo Duca?



    [ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]



    [ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
  • Reply 2 of 10
    thoth2thoth2 Posts: 277member
    I'd want pudge too, but I'm currently quite happy with a healthy Jason Varitek.

    Thoth (a Sox fan)(send cards and condolences to...)
  • Reply 3 of 10
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    I'm not just saying this because I'm a Mets fan, but because I've watched Piazza on a regular basis since May of '98....



    Now Pudge is definately a better defensive catcher but Piazza isn't really as bad as you guys make him sound. We all know he can't throw out base runners and that sucks. But he does everything else very well. He always calls a good game. Pitchers love working with him. He blocks balls very well too.



    Hitting wise Piazza's great. No he's not just a "slugger". He hits for power and average. His whole career he's hit .300 or better. His offensive numbers are great for a catcher (same with Pudge).



    [quote] Not only is he a terrible defensive catcher, but he is also a cancer in the clubhouse. <hr></blockquote>



    I really have no idea how he's a cancer in the clubhouse. All of his teammates seem to really like him and respect him.



    [quote]I definitely would want pudge. I had piazza on my team (the dodgers) for quite a few years and believe me I'm glad we got rid of him long ago. <hr></blockquote>



    Obviously the Dodgers organization doesn't feel that way... they were begging the Mets to send him back to LA back in '99.



    [ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: EmAn ]</p>
  • Reply 4 of 10
    _ alliance __ alliance _ Posts: 2,070member
    [quote]Originally posted by EmAn:

    <strong>



    Obviously the Dodgers organization doesn't feel that way... they were begging the Mets to send him back to LA back in '99.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    thats cause they were stuck w/ hundley. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

    anythings better than him that year...



    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
  • Reply 5 of 10
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    [quote]Originally posted by _ alliance _:

    <strong>



    thats cause they were stuck w/ hundley. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

    anythings better than him that year...



    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> You've got a point there.
  • Reply 6 of 10
    thoth2thoth2 Posts: 277member
    [quote]Originally posted by _ alliance _:

    <strong>



    thats cause they were stuck w/ hundley. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

    anythings better than him that year...



    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Not true, you could have Matheny back there.

    :eek:

    Thoth
  • Reply 7 of 10
    _ alliance __ alliance _ Posts: 2,070member
    [quote]Originally posted by Thoth2:

    <strong>



    Not true, you could have Matheny back there.

    :eek:

    Thoth</strong><hr></blockquote>



    or me, for that matter.
  • Reply 8 of 10
    masterzeusmasterzeus Posts: 111member
    Usually I would definately pick Pudge, but he has been getting hurt so much the last couple years, I would pick Piazza right now. What good is even the greatest player in the world if he is always hurt?
  • Reply 9 of 10
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    So what exactly makes him a catcher? Sure he can block the ball or do something as nebulous as "call a good game", but he can't control the runners on base, which is a vital part of being a catcher.



    Pudge is notorious for picking off guys at first who linger away from the base for too long. Do Mets opponents have to worry about that with Piazza?



    He might do that, I don't know, so it's an actual question.
  • Reply 10 of 10
    thoth2thoth2 Posts: 277member
    [quote]Originally posted by groverat:

    <strong>So what exactly makes him a catcher? Sure he can block the ball or do something as nebulous as "call a good game", but he can't control the runners on base, which is a vital part of being a catcher.



    Pudge is notorious for picking off guys at first who linger away from the base for too long. Do Mets opponents have to worry about that with Piazza?



    He might do that, I don't know, so it's an actual question. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Probably the best way to compare these guys is by Win Shares (as they calculate the player's importance to a particular team), but Baseball-Reference doesn't have these stats right now. I suspect that Pepperoni Piazza's Offensive Win Shares are probably similar to Ivan's (look at BR - they're comparable batters according to them), but I'd guess that his Defensive Win Shares would be significantly lower than Ivan's. Of course, I'm only guessing b/c I don't know how to calculate win shares and I don't own Bill Jame's new book.



    As for injuries, no, its not a good thing to have a great player who doesn't play, so if that's figured in, you have to take a healthy Piazza over a non-playing Pudge. But then you'd take Matheny over a non-playing Pudge too, so that's unhelpful. Again, I'd avoid the whole controversy and take Jason Varitek.

    All Sox, all the time.

    Thoth
Sign In or Register to comment.