Apple TV-Upgradeable? Classic still here

Posted:
in iPod + iTunes + AppleTV edited January 2014
I think the new AppleTV is great and $99 isn't bad but still even for that price, I like my current AppleTV. I figured if they put iOS on it I would upgrade but yet without it, I see no point to upgrade. Also, since there's no iOS on it I think it's more likely I can upgrade my AppleTV to the new software.

Does anyone know if it will be upgradable? Honestly even if I could get $100 for it on eBay I prefer having a hard drive. I like the netflix service but I already have a PS3 that i use for that and I'm not big on tv and movie rentals and mostly stream or store from iTunes now.



Also, a side note. Is is true the iPod Classic is still available? I was shocked when Steve Jobs said he's updating all ipods. I thought 'what can they do with the classic'. He didn't mention it then so I thought it was a goner but I still see it on Apple so is it not being cancelled? My iPod Video is getting old and I have an Iphone so the iPod Classic is my favorite iPod. if it was going away I was going to buy one today while I still can.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markw10 View Post


    I think the new AppleTV is great and $99 isn't bad but still even for that price, I like my current AppleTV. I figured if they put iOS on it I would upgrade but yet without it, I see no point to upgrade. Also, since there's no iOS on it I think it's more likely I can upgrade my AppleTV to the new software.

    Does anyone know if it will be upgradable? Honestly even if I could get $100 for it on eBay I prefer having a hard drive. I like the netflix service but I already have a PS3 that i use for that and I'm not big on tv and movie rentals and mostly stream or store from iTunes now.



    Also, a side note. Is is true the iPod Classic is still available? I was shocked when Steve Jobs said he's updating all ipods. I thought 'what can they do with the classic'. He didn't mention it then so I thought it was a goner but I still see it on Apple so is it not being cancelled? My iPod Video is getting old and I have an Iphone so the iPod Classic is my favorite iPod. if it was going away I was going to buy one today while I still can.



    Im wondering the same thing.
  • Reply 2 of 18
    It doesn't seem like it would be hard to upgrade the legacy AppleTVs to the new software. I'd love to be able to stream netflix through my old apple tv rather than the power sucking PS3...
  • Reply 3 of 18
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Proximityeffect View Post


    It doesn't seem like it would be hard to upgrade the legacy AppleTVs to the new software. I'd love to be able to stream netflix through my old apple tv rather than the power sucking PS3...



    The only thing is they switched to ARM from x86 so they'd have to compile and maintain a new version of the software. It will have totally different power management.



    On the subject of power sucking, the new ATV has a 6 watt PSU vs a 48 watt PSU in the old one. PSUs are designed to obviously cover all usage scenarios so they shouldn't come close to topping out those values but the new one uses a lot less.



    If people like the older devices and find a use for them, great but eventually the usage pattern will change. People still collect movies on discs and they gather dust like everyone else's. For disposable content, streaming is the way forward.



    The flaws in the iPod classic and old ATV include the following:



    - they have hard drives that can break

    - they are bulky and heavy

    - they use more power and generate more heat

    - they take time to sync anyway so having lots of storage means long sync times compared to instant-on



    The only real benefit is that you can build up content on it but the new one streams movies from your computer, which will have a way bigger drive.



    I think people with the classic devices need to embrace change. Sometimes it's hard to let go of old habits but new habits have interesting results. Classic devices encourage a hoarding behaviour, which leads to stale content. Streaming tech encourages discovery of new content. This benefits artists and consumers because it allows artists to keep making new content and by extension, that allows new content to exist for other consumers.
  • Reply 4 of 18
    Funny thing is i use my current aTV like the new aTV. I dont sync anything, I stream from my hard drives (one connected to the aTV and another on the AirPort).



    This to me is an upgrade once it is hacked (and it will get hacked, fairly quickly I think) to connect to the way I currently do. Boxee, Perian, XMBC, browser, mounting shares off networks and NAS and even the dreaded Flash will soon find its way onto this little black box......



    Rippey
  • Reply 5 of 18
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,591member
    I hope so because I want to stream netflix.



    Also agree with above poster, we use it to stream now already. Not sure why an hdd was included to begin with other than for buffering.
  • Reply 6 of 18
    I buy it when it's available because it's worth it! Netflix streaming along makes it worth it!
  • Reply 7 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I think people with the classic devices need to embrace change. Sometimes it's hard to let go of old habits but new habits have interesting results. Classic devices encourage a hoarding behaviour, which leads to stale content. Streaming tech encourages discovery of new content. This benefits artists and consumers because it allows artists to keep making new content and by extension, that allows new content to exist for other consumers.



    I don't agree with this description of classic AppleTV owners at all. I own an AppleTV and stream most of my media and I believe that this is true of many other AppleTV owners. There are no long sync times unless you explicitly want a particular movie on the AppleTV to carry around with you. Streaming from a Mac is seamless and you canot tell the content is not stored locally on the AppleTV.
  • Reply 8 of 18
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,591member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post




    I think people with the classic devices need to embrace change. Sometimes it's hard to let go of old habits but new habits have interesting results. Classic devices encourage a hoarding behaviour, which leads to stale content. Streaming tech encourages discovery of new content. This benefits artists and consumers because it allows artists to keep making new content and by extension, that allows new content to exist for other consumers.



    Do you honestly think my AppleTV hdd is big enough to hold my entire iTunes library????? Apple does sync the device but it streams what is not on there already. Adding netflix should be no big deal and I hope they do.
  • Reply 9 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markw10 View Post


    Does anyone know if it will be upgradable? Honestly even if I could get $100 for it on eBay I prefer having a hard drive.



    So you end up with a used piece of equipment that consumes more power, has a moving part subject to failure (the HDD) that the new version of the OS won't even use anymore, because you can't buy content from the iTunes Store with the new OS version.



    Nor can you sync anything to it.



    So why would you spend $100 on that instead of on a new piece of hardware that's smaller, more energy efficient, less prone to failure and likely more able when it comes to graphics performance?
  • Reply 10 of 18
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


    I don't agree with this description of classic AppleTV owners at all. I own an AppleTV and stream most of my media and I believe that this is true of many other AppleTV owners. There are no long sync times unless you explicitly want a particular movie on the AppleTV to carry around with you. Streaming from a Mac is seamless and you canot tell the content is not stored locally on the AppleTV.



    People who decide to hold onto the old ATV or iPod Classic pretty much always mention the storage as the reason for not upgrading. If you are an ATV owner who streams content then the new one should be ideal.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub


    Do you honestly think my AppleTV hdd is big enough to hold my entire iTunes library?



    I don't know the size of your ATV nor the size of the library so I have no opinion on your specific case. The point is that since there's no advantage to the old ATV then there's no reason to prefer it as the OP is suggesting:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markw10


    Honestly even if I could get $100 for it on eBay I prefer having a hard drive.



    Obviously people can choose what to prefer but there are no technical advantages and yet a number of disadvantages.



    I think they should still come out with an even cheaper dock to connect your iPod Touch or iPhone to the service so people who already own one can get the feature for maybe $30. It would just be like the charging dock but with HDMI output and a remote. This way you do even get some storage and can put iTunes purchases onto it.
  • Reply 11 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I think people with the classic devices need to embrace change. Sometimes it's hard to let go of old habits but new habits have interesting results. Classic devices encourage a hoarding behaviour, which leads to stale content. Streaming tech encourages discovery of new content. This benefits artists and consumers because it allows artists to keep making new content and by extension, that allows new content to exist for other consumers.



    I was with you until you went there. Hoarding? I prefer the term 'collecting'. And removing the hard drive doesnt stop me from being any less of a collector of content. In fact, its easier because while some folks store movies and music on their appletv, the more savvy users store their media it on an external hard drive connected to their computer in the other room, and stream it to the apple tv.



    And I dont think the creation of new content has any relationship whatsoever with so called hoarding behavior. And if I want to sit and watch my saved Dexter seasons over and over, its probably because nothing else is on worth watching.
  • Reply 12 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    People who decide to hold onto the old ATV or iPod Classic pretty much always mention the storage as the reason for not upgrading. If you are an ATV owner who streams content then the new one should be ideal.



    But then again as an owner of the old AppleTV I see no compelling reason to upgrade.



    AppleTV2 is great for attracting new users and is exactly what Apple needed to do, but the new AppleTV doesn't do much for existing users. In many ways it is a downgrade (even if I never actually used the local storage).
  • Reply 13 of 18
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bg_nyc View Post


    I was with you until you went there. Hoarding? I prefer the term 'collecting'. And removing the hard drive doesnt stop me from being any less of a collector of content. In fact, its easier because while some folks store movies and music on their appletv, the more savvy users store their media it on an external hard drive connected to their computer in the other room, and stream it to the apple tv.



    Certainly 'collecting' is a less harsh term than 'hoarding' and although they are synonymous, I wasn't referring to the behaviour of collecting favourite media but rather the act of filling available space (largely unmaintained local storage that would be more common on the old ATV and iPod Classic). People who have devices that are intended solely for the purpose of storing media get the most value from them by using the available space, it's only natural.



    The thresholds drop for the content quality and lower quality media acts as a barrier to the content you like and makes the collection stale. It's understandable that this happens on slave devices where it's difficult to manage the content while consuming.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bg_nyc View Post


    And I dont think the creation of new content has any relationship whatsoever with so called hoarding behavior. And if I want to sit and watch my saved Dexter seasons over and over, its probably because nothing else is on worth watching.



    If you are in the habit of consuming old media over and over, it's hard to break out of that cycle when you have no direction to move in. You like Dexter but how will you find out about another show that interests you as much if there is no bridge between the content you collect and the content you discover? How can content producers ever know what your preferences are to be able to satisfy your future needs even regarding episodes in a particular series? They can't so they make junk and you go back to your collection, catch-22.



    Beyond current limitations in some purchasing models and syncing with mobile devices, is there still a need for local storage of readily accessible (streaming) mainstream titles? If you could stream Dexter free for a year or up to 3 times per episode after renting, would you still need to own it?
  • Reply 14 of 18
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


    But then again as an owner of the old AppleTV I see no compelling reason to upgrade.



    Apple confirmed that the new features in the ATV won't be coming to the old one. Netflix or TV rentals for example, probably AirPlay too.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


    AppleTV2 is great for attracting new users and is exactly what Apple needed to do, but the new AppleTV doesn't do much for existing users. In many ways it is a downgrade (even if I never actually used the local storage).



    A number of people have said that including:



    - 1080p on the old one vs 720p on the new one

    - being able to consume music, video or photos without having a computer active

    - being able to take the ATV to a friend's house to watch movies

    - modify the machine to run OS X



    I think most of this is negated by AirPlay though. Obviously it's subject to you owning a compatible device but over 100 million people have them anyway.



    I don't think 1080p vs 720p matters one bit. If you need to stream music or music, videos or photos without a computer active, just make sure to sync it with your phone, iPad etc. This is much more convenient to take round to a friend's house too.



    If you took a funny video of your kid and want to show your friends, you go round and just stream from your iPhone to their ATV. Same with holiday snaps/videos.



    Being able to run OS X was only really important to get wider media format support. We'll see if it's possible to allow streaming non-Apple approved formats easily enough. It's running iOS so it's probably just a jailbreak away. A jailbreak might allow usb-connected storage too if you feel the need.
  • Reply 15 of 18
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,591member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Apple confirmed that the new features in the ATV won't be coming to the old one. Netflix or TV rentals for example, probably AirPlay too.



    Do you have a source on the netflix isn't coming to the original model?



    That is depressing if true.
  • Reply 16 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Apple confirmed that the new features in the ATV won't be coming to the old one. Netflix or TV rentals for example, probably AirPlay too.



    I suspect TV rentals will appear on the original AppleTV. You can already rent movies. Airplay and Netflixs probably won't be coming. This is a shame; however, I don't think these two alone are reason enough to upgrade from something that still works and has functionality the new AppleTV is missing eg the option to purchase content on the device itself and start watching instantly instead of having to purchase it on a computer and wait until the download is finished before watching. An App store (which could still appear) would be a reason to upgrade, but right now I am sticking with my original model.
  • Reply 17 of 18
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    Do you have a source on the netflix isn't coming to the original model?



    That is depressing if true.



    http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...s-apple-tv.ars



    "We confirmed with an Apple spokesperson that the maximum HD resolution of the Apple TV is 720p, consistent with recent rumors. Additionally, there will be no software update to bring the new features to older Apple TVs. Older Apple TVs will continue to work as they have been working up to this point, and they will continue to be able to purchase movies and TV shows even though the new Apple TV is rental-only."



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando


    the new AppleTV is missing eg the option to purchase content on the device itself and start watching instantly instead of having to purchase it on a computer and wait until the download is finished before watching.



    Yeah, I don't know why they restrict the computer from viewing before the download is finished. If they allowed you to purchase on an iPod/iPhone and stream instantly, that would get round it.



    I think the rental model is a move to change how people use mainstream movies. Generally you won't watch a movie more than 3 times, very often it's once even if you buy it. I own about 30 movies and one or two I've watched 5 times, the rest it's just 1-2 times so the rental model would actually work out cheaper overall.



    Say I watch my favourite top 5 films 5 times each and the next 5 favourites 2 times each, then I watch the last 20 of my collection once, that means I pay 30 x £10 = £300 for 55 viewings. In the rental model, that comes to 55 x £3.50 = £192. Even including the ATV itself, I still save money.



    Obviously the more I watch my collection, the more the value tips in favour of the purchase model but generally they work out pretty even. I really wished they could have gotten a pay-per-minute pricing plan though. I think the purchase before viewing model prevents discoverability because you are made to judge content on the falsified trailers and when you inevitably get bad experiences it puts you off. If they would just let you start watching a movie and charge you 3p (5c) per minute and then if you hated it in the first 30 minutes, you don't feel cheated. You could also watch your favourite parts of a movie without being charged for the whole movie again. Like the leg-crossing scene in Basic Instinct, that's pretty much the only part of the film worth watching and it's not worth £3.50 every time.
  • Reply 18 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I think the rental model is a move to change how people use mainstream movies. Generally you won't watch a movie more than 3 times, very often it's once even if you buy it. I own about 30 movies and one or two I've watched 5 times, the rest it's just 1-2 times so the rental model would actually work out cheaper overall.



    Of course this is nothing new: The original AppleTV has had movie rentals for two years now.
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