I suspect the man was a foreign agent and the manager got wind of his true identity. Then, I suspect, the manager attempted to blackmail the employee, but it backfired when the employee used his espionage skills, I bet, to hack into the manager's accounts and I'm guessing he threatened to expose his history of what I reckon was embezzlement.
It seems to me that at that point they both agreed to a discrimination suit, I figure as a cover for a kind of "mutually assured destruction" scenario. Or so I would estimate based on the facts at hand.
That's exactly what I surmised as well... but we read one thing differently... I understood that when the employee hacked into the manager's accounts he actually changed the data to make it appear that the manager was embezzling from the company...
As a formal employee of Apple retail I have seen first hand that the hiring and promotion practices are a little fishy. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed working for Apple and met a lot of amazing people. But there are flaws, some major flaws.
I was lucky enough that I received every promotion I went after, but some of my highly qualified colleagues weren't so lucky. Apple claims not to judge promotions solely on sales numbers. So a three year part-timer with ok numbers, but amazing people skills goes for full time. Instead its given to a newbie of three weeks, who has already had HR called on him, clearly a racist and sexist, but is pushing machines out the door because he is scaring the shit out of customers to buy a mac.
The older folks (50+) that were hired at store were a true inspiration to me. They were introduced to this technology late in the game with a high learning curve. But yet they were wowed by how it changed their lives. Many of them actually taking classes with creatives years before they became employees. They are just so excited to be able to share their findings and knowledge with the community. In my opinion they are the best people to become creatives at Apple retail.
I just hope this isn't another one of the silly promotion episodes that I saw way too often.
Coming from someone who knows about working at the "Fruit stand" this definitely sounds like a valid and truthful occurrence. I've seen and heard from managers how, why or why not they decide to go with another person. Unfortunately it's not about work performance, its about how close and "friendly" you are with management. If employee A is always on time, works hard for the company and even goes above and beyond for the customer & the store he will be overlooked by someone like employee B who abuses time and attendance, doesn't put in the effort that others do and finds ways to stay off the RZ floor BUT has close relations with management. Trust me I've seen it first hand. I've seen co-workers go up for job openings within Apple and be completely overlooked for some "creative" reason. Now not ALL management is flaky at Apple but you definitely have someone that will bend rules for those that they 'Prefer". I've been at the hiring events and been part of the group of staff who have given a yea or nay when it comes to who is Apple material. Its definitely possible that this occurred and being that this incident happened at the Millenia Store then its twice as likely. Good Luck Michael! Hopefully justice will be served. Some people at Apple need to be knocked off the high horse they sit upon. Its a PHENOMENAL company to work for but some of the managers abuse the power and need to refrain from having too personal of a relationship with staff where it hinders proper decisions that should be made.
I am in my sixties and a Specialist at an Apple store. I have been with Apple for over two years and I have never experienced any type of discrimination. Apple retail is a great place to work - it's like a second family.
For the poster who asked: FRS - Family Room Specialist. The Family Room is where the kids' iMacs are located, where we do personal training and greet and check in for Genius Bar appointments.
What the hell kind of job title is "Creative" anyway? What does that mean, exactly? Origami swans? Complicated Illustrator layouts? Positioning the iMac for maximum Feng Shui?
Sooooo according to the article, he began working in the Mall in 2006...
Sacked in 2007...
wanted a promotion...
Simple math states, an older man had a job in a mall for 1 year, and expected a promotion. The story also states that there were 4 positions opened, that he applied for. Did all of those positions open at the same exact time, a year later? Or were they opened throughout his tenure with store? I'd have to imagine it was the later.
Sorry, but I wouldn't give promotions out to anyone after having them for only 1 year. That said, if the 4 positions he was going for, open throughout his stint, then I certainly don't give out a promotion in less than a year.
I'd like to know, the 'younger' associates that got the promotion, how long they worked with the store/company.
It's simple really. You get a promotion if you are a top performing associate. And even if you were, you have to contend with other people of the same value as you, and pay grade as you, and perhaps they had their position longer than you, and had more experience.
Meh, this guy might have a valid point. He may have been Steve's long-lost brother/father, but there is many other factors to consider. One of which the valid point above.
To quote some Star Wars... "Good luck... you're gonna need it"
At Apple it doesn't matter for how long you've been with the company. The internal position opening is email to EVERYONE. Anyone can interview. From there the list of people is trimmed to those who seem to be qualified OR whoever the managers like. Rarely is someone hired due to the knowledge base of the position. If they like you, you're in. I've seen PLENTY of unqualified people getting promoted & training new staff. I was fortunate enough to get a few positions I sought out for but I had RAINBOWS popped in my ass for why I wasn't chosen. And when I confronted management about it they created a reason as to why I wasn't qualified enough. Trust me Apple managers know how to step around things. Its almost Mafia-like on how connected people are.
I've seen people terminated for Time and Attendance issues, which is a valid reason for termination but I've also seen people who have and currently abuse the Time & Attendance policy but only get promoted to Expert positions and other leadership roles only because of personal & intimate relationships they have with management. Sometimes its not who you know but also who you're f***ing.
Rules are bent and at times broken for the chosen few but karma has always come to get hers.
For the majority of the people working for Apple are there because of the interactions with customers. Its such a rewarding feeling to help others realize how amazing the products are. You can't deny the quality and functionality of Apple products. I wouldnt trade my experience with my Apple customers for ANYTHING but one of the ugly sides of Apple is the one that Michael Katz has experienced. I honestly do not doubt Michael's case one bit and that's because I've seen this side and many other sides of Apple. I just wish that Apple HR would take a more serious approach to concerns within their stores because its hurting the Apple culture. Millenia, Florida Mall & Altamonte all have issues that need serious attention to. Listen to the YOUR people Apple. Remember the credo card? Now live by it starting with your soldiers in the front line. I'd suggest take a look at the Florida Mall management team. They have plenty of dirty laundry as well.
What the hell kind of job title is "Creative" anyway? What does that mean, exactly? Origami swans? Complicated Illustrator layouts? Positioning the iMac for maximum Feng Shui?
Seriously, what does a "creative" do?
Creatives are the software Gurus you see teaching, instructing & informing customers on how to use their Apple product. They are prob one of the most knowledgeable people in the store. Genius's are the mechanics, Creatives are the ones that show you HOW TO DO on your product. It takes a patient person to give 1hr+ of lessons, teachings and classes to each One to One member.
I am in my sixties and a Specialist at an Apple store. I have been with Apple for over two years and I have never experienced any type of discrimination. Apple retail is a great place to work - it's like a second family.
For the poster who asked: FRS - Family Room Specialist. The Family Room is where the kids' iMacs are located, where we do personal training and greet and check in for Genius Bar appointments.
You're absolutely right. I worked for Apple. Apple is by FAR one of the top companies to work for but your experience and work environment is based upon the management team and how they take care of their own. I went through a time when my Apple store was fair, firm and consistent. I had nothing bad to say working there other than I wish we were open 24/7. It was THAT good. But then managers left and new ones were put in their place and they started making poor and biased decisions and it slowly changed the scope of how Apple operates. They took that credo card and made changes to it that only benefitted themselves and those they wanted. But my beef is that they werent fair or consistent. They made issues personal and thus brought outside experiences into work and allowed THAT to help them make managerial decisions. It was a shame but they resulted in a lot of seasoned Apple staff to depart or transfer. I'm happy you have such a great staff to work with. Enjoy it and hope that you dont get one of those types of managers.
Hard to say anything based on only what we are told unless we assume it as fact. He might of just been a mean or undesirable piece of work to promote. Or, he might be completely right that they discriminated towards him. Hard to discuss, but interesting to follow the outcome. Sadly we probably will never know the conclusion without spending considerable effort to track it.
A Florida man in his 60s has sued Apple, alleging that he was denied promotions when he worked at the company's retail store because of his age.
Michael Katz has accused Apple of violating the state's Civil Rights Act, as he believes he was subjected to discrimination based on his age. The complaint, filed this week, seeks damages in excess of $15,000.
Katz began working as a Mac specialist at the Apple store at Millennia Mall in Orlando in March 2006, when he was 60 years old. In his lawsuit, he says he expressed his desire to be promoted to the title of "Creative."
In his tenure at the Apple store, there were "several" openings for creatives at the store, and Katz claims he applied each time but was denied the position. Those who were selected for the job were at least 15 years younger than him, he said.
"Katz was passed over for promotion multiple times in favor of individuals with less seniority with Apple and inferior qualifications," the complaint reads. "Katz was not provided with any explanation for his repeated denail of promotion opportunities. Rather, his supervisor simply denied that Katz had ever expressed a desire to obtain a Creative position."
Katz was "constructively terminated" from the Orlando store in September 2007, and he filed charges of discrimination with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and Florida Commission on Human Relations. In June 2009, the EEOC reportedly found "reasonable cause" that Katz was denied promotions by Apple because of his age.
"The EEOC attempted to conciliate the matter, but those efforts failed," the complaint reads. It also notes that the FCHR did not issue a determination on his case.
"Katz's FCRA claims are therefore ripe for litigation, and he is permitted, pursuant to Florida Statute 760.07 to file a civil action in this Court seeking a remedy for the unlawful employment practices described herein," it states.
The suit was filed in the 9th Judiial Circuit Court in Orange County, Florida, where the Orlando store is located. Katz is seeking back pay and and damages from the Cupertino, Calif., company.
I actually believe the guy. I don't believe someone goes through the trouble of contacting the EEOC for no reason at all. I don't believe the guys manager on any level. It's entirely believable that Apple would do something like this.
Absurd. This is the same as saying you don't believe anyone would sue anyone else without just cause.
PS: I agree with AdoniSMU that it?s believable, but that doesn?t mean it?s true.
I have to say, I've never seen anyone working in an apple store who looked over 23, and not only that, they are all physically attractive too, ever seen a man with a receding hair line as an apple store employee? How about a lady with waist measurements not in "proper proportion" to chest measurements? I have not.
Apple wants pretty people, no different than any other modeling job, the difference, and the thing that will end up hanging them in this matter is that they don't call it what it is, modeling (read looking pretty to sell shit)- they classify it as tech support/advising/retail sales.
I have to say, I've never seen anyone working in an apple store who looked over 23, and not only that, they are all physically attractive too, ever seen a man with a receding hair line as an apple store employee? How about a lady with waist measurements not in "proper proportion" to chest measurements? I have not.
Apple wants pretty people, no different than any other modeling job, the difference, and the thing that will end up hanging them in this matter is that they don't call it what it is, modeling (read looking pretty to sell shit)- they classify it as tech support/advising/retail sales.
I?ve seen plenty of 30yo plus employees, though not as many as the ones under 30yo. I also can?t say I?ve seen many ?attractive? people. Maybe I?m just too old to get it in my 30s but that hipster crowd look like new age hippies to me.
PS: I see AdoniSMU was getting some grief about his comment, with which I agreed. I, too, think it?s believable that someone at Apple in a management position could act unfairly toward someone, because I think this is possible with all companies that use people to manage other people. Based on the number of employees and the years in operation it seems highly unlikely that unethical discrimination has never happened at Apple. Didn?t Steve Jobs himself judge and shun people if they looked too ?corporate? at Apple when applying, or am I just remembered some TV movie?
Comments
I suspect the man was a foreign agent and the manager got wind of his true identity. Then, I suspect, the manager attempted to blackmail the employee, but it backfired when the employee used his espionage skills, I bet, to hack into the manager's accounts and I'm guessing he threatened to expose his history of what I reckon was embezzlement.
It seems to me that at that point they both agreed to a discrimination suit, I figure as a cover for a kind of "mutually assured destruction" scenario. Or so I would estimate based on the facts at hand.
That's exactly what I surmised as well... but we read one thing differently... I understood that when the employee hacked into the manager's accounts he actually changed the data to make it appear that the manager was embezzling from the company...
I guess it'll all come out in the trial...
'lurking for ages'???? says your join date was Dec 2010.....a little over 2 days?
But he was lurking for ages before he registered.
Just as there are 75 guests viewing (lurking) this page now.
سیب
Translation: Apple
Translation: TeckStud/iGenius alias
I was lucky enough that I received every promotion I went after, but some of my highly qualified colleagues weren't so lucky. Apple claims not to judge promotions solely on sales numbers. So a three year part-timer with ok numbers, but amazing people skills goes for full time. Instead its given to a newbie of three weeks, who has already had HR called on him, clearly a racist and sexist, but is pushing machines out the door because he is scaring the shit out of customers to buy a mac.
The older folks (50+) that were hired at store were a true inspiration to me. They were introduced to this technology late in the game with a high learning curve. But yet they were wowed by how it changed their lives. Many of them actually taking classes with creatives years before they became employees. They are just so excited to be able to share their findings and knowledge with the community. In my opinion they are the best people to become creatives at Apple retail.
I just hope this isn't another one of the silly promotion episodes that I saw way too often.
Florida is a right to work state. As an employer, you don't need a reason to terminate. So Mr. Katz...good luck with that.
"Right to work" sounds contrary to the sentence that followed. I guess employees are "at will" (which would be more accurate).
Florida is a right to work state. As an employer, you don't need a reason to terminate. So Mr. Katz...good luck with that.
Doesn't matter when it comes to discrimination.
For the poster who asked: FRS - Family Room Specialist. The Family Room is where the kids' iMacs are located, where we do personal training and greet and check in for Genius Bar appointments.
Seriously, what does a "creative" do?
Sooooo according to the article, he began working in the Mall in 2006...
Sacked in 2007...
wanted a promotion...
Simple math states, an older man had a job in a mall for 1 year, and expected a promotion. The story also states that there were 4 positions opened, that he applied for. Did all of those positions open at the same exact time, a year later? Or were they opened throughout his tenure with store? I'd have to imagine it was the later.
Sorry, but I wouldn't give promotions out to anyone after having them for only 1 year. That said, if the 4 positions he was going for, open throughout his stint, then I certainly don't give out a promotion in less than a year.
I'd like to know, the 'younger' associates that got the promotion, how long they worked with the store/company.
It's simple really. You get a promotion if you are a top performing associate. And even if you were, you have to contend with other people of the same value as you, and pay grade as you, and perhaps they had their position longer than you, and had more experience.
Meh, this guy might have a valid point. He may have been Steve's long-lost brother/father, but there is many other factors to consider. One of which the valid point above.
To quote some Star Wars... "Good luck... you're gonna need it"
At Apple it doesn't matter for how long you've been with the company. The internal position opening is email to EVERYONE. Anyone can interview. From there the list of people is trimmed to those who seem to be qualified OR whoever the managers like. Rarely is someone hired due to the knowledge base of the position. If they like you, you're in. I've seen PLENTY of unqualified people getting promoted & training new staff. I was fortunate enough to get a few positions I sought out for but I had RAINBOWS popped in my ass for why I wasn't chosen. And when I confronted management about it they created a reason as to why I wasn't qualified enough. Trust me Apple managers know how to step around things. Its almost Mafia-like on how connected people are.
Rules are bent and at times broken for the chosen few but karma has always come to get hers.
For the majority of the people working for Apple are there because of the interactions with customers. Its such a rewarding feeling to help others realize how amazing the products are. You can't deny the quality and functionality of Apple products. I wouldnt trade my experience with my Apple customers for ANYTHING but one of the ugly sides of Apple is the one that Michael Katz has experienced. I honestly do not doubt Michael's case one bit and that's because I've seen this side and many other sides of Apple. I just wish that Apple HR would take a more serious approach to concerns within their stores because its hurting the Apple culture. Millenia, Florida Mall & Altamonte all have issues that need serious attention to. Listen to the YOUR people Apple. Remember the credo card? Now live by it starting with your soldiers in the front line. I'd suggest take a look at the Florida Mall management team. They have plenty of dirty laundry as well.
An Applehead for Life! Always and forever!
BTW...SOUNDGARDEN RULES!!!
What the hell kind of job title is "Creative" anyway? What does that mean, exactly? Origami swans? Complicated Illustrator layouts? Positioning the iMac for maximum Feng Shui?
Seriously, what does a "creative" do?
Creatives are the software Gurus you see teaching, instructing & informing customers on how to use their Apple product. They are prob one of the most knowledgeable people in the store. Genius's are the mechanics, Creatives are the ones that show you HOW TO DO on your product. It takes a patient person to give 1hr+ of lessons, teachings and classes to each One to One member.
I am in my sixties and a Specialist at an Apple store. I have been with Apple for over two years and I have never experienced any type of discrimination. Apple retail is a great place to work - it's like a second family.
For the poster who asked: FRS - Family Room Specialist. The Family Room is where the kids' iMacs are located, where we do personal training and greet and check in for Genius Bar appointments.
You're absolutely right. I worked for Apple. Apple is by FAR one of the top companies to work for but your experience and work environment is based upon the management team and how they take care of their own. I went through a time when my Apple store was fair, firm and consistent. I had nothing bad to say working there other than I wish we were open 24/7. It was THAT good. But then managers left and new ones were put in their place and they started making poor and biased decisions and it slowly changed the scope of how Apple operates. They took that credo card and made changes to it that only benefitted themselves and those they wanted. But my beef is that they werent fair or consistent. They made issues personal and thus brought outside experiences into work and allowed THAT to help them make managerial decisions. It was a shame but they resulted in a lot of seasoned Apple staff to depart or transfer. I'm happy you have such a great staff to work with. Enjoy it and hope that you dont get one of those types of managers.
A Florida man in his 60s has sued Apple, alleging that he was denied promotions when he worked at the company's retail store because of his age.
Michael Katz has accused Apple of violating the state's Civil Rights Act, as he believes he was subjected to discrimination based on his age. The complaint, filed this week, seeks damages in excess of $15,000.
Katz began working as a Mac specialist at the Apple store at Millennia Mall in Orlando in March 2006, when he was 60 years old. In his lawsuit, he says he expressed his desire to be promoted to the title of "Creative."
In his tenure at the Apple store, there were "several" openings for creatives at the store, and Katz claims he applied each time but was denied the position. Those who were selected for the job were at least 15 years younger than him, he said.
"Katz was passed over for promotion multiple times in favor of individuals with less seniority with Apple and inferior qualifications," the complaint reads. "Katz was not provided with any explanation for his repeated denail of promotion opportunities. Rather, his supervisor simply denied that Katz had ever expressed a desire to obtain a Creative position."
Katz was "constructively terminated" from the Orlando store in September 2007, and he filed charges of discrimination with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and Florida Commission on Human Relations. In June 2009, the EEOC reportedly found "reasonable cause" that Katz was denied promotions by Apple because of his age.
"The EEOC attempted to conciliate the matter, but those efforts failed," the complaint reads. It also notes that the FCHR did not issue a determination on his case.
"Katz's FCRA claims are therefore ripe for litigation, and he is permitted, pursuant to Florida Statute 760.07 to file a civil action in this Court seeking a remedy for the unlawful employment practices described herein," it states.
The suit was filed in the 9th Judiial Circuit Court in Orange County, Florida, where the Orlando store is located. Katz is seeking back pay and and damages from the Cupertino, Calif., company.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
could the reason be because he is Jewish? This could be a contributing factor in this case.
I actually believe the guy. I don't believe someone goes through the trouble of contacting the EEOC for no reason at all. I don't believe the guys manager on any level. It's entirely believable that Apple would do something like this.
Absurd. This is the same as saying you don't believe anyone would sue anyone else without just cause.
PS: I agree with AdoniSMU that it?s believable, but that doesn?t mean it?s true.
I have to say, I've never seen anyone working in an apple store who looked over 23, and not only that, they are all physically attractive too, ever seen a man with a receding hair line as an apple store employee? How about a lady with waist measurements not in "proper proportion" to chest measurements? I have not.
Apple wants pretty people, no different than any other modeling job, the difference, and the thing that will end up hanging them in this matter is that they don't call it what it is, modeling (read looking pretty to sell shit)- they classify it as tech support/advising/retail sales.
I have to say, I've never seen anyone working in an apple store who looked over 23, and not only that, they are all physically attractive too, ever seen a man with a receding hair line as an apple store employee? How about a lady with waist measurements not in "proper proportion" to chest measurements? I have not.
Apple wants pretty people, no different than any other modeling job, the difference, and the thing that will end up hanging them in this matter is that they don't call it what it is, modeling (read looking pretty to sell shit)- they classify it as tech support/advising/retail sales.
I?ve seen plenty of 30yo plus employees, though not as many as the ones under 30yo. I also can?t say I?ve seen many ?attractive? people. Maybe I?m just too old to get it in my 30s but that hipster crowd look like new age hippies to me.
PS: I see AdoniSMU was getting some grief about his comment, with which I agreed. I, too, think it?s believable that someone at Apple in a management position could act unfairly toward someone, because I think this is possible with all companies that use people to manage other people. Based on the number of employees and the years in operation it seems highly unlikely that unethical discrimination has never happened at Apple. Didn?t Steve Jobs himself judge and shun people if they looked too ?corporate? at Apple when applying, or am I just remembered some TV movie?