Interesting, that time-of-borrowing angle. I wonder if it would apply to what must be my favorite candidate of a hyperforeignism, 'forte.' I remember reading an English-usage book in my youth wherein it pointed out that the word is a French borrowing and so should be pronounced 'fort,' as in fortification, not 'for-tay,' as if it were Italian. That would have been about 50 years ago, and do you think you can get away with saying it 'correctly' yet?
But there's hope, I think, because a more trans-lingual outlook is now possible, what with all information now available all the time instantly. The diffusion of a concept like hyperforeignism into this forum is an example of such noetic pressure in action.
Hah!
In Tucson there are the ruins of an old Fort, Fort Lowell that was built on the outskirts of town.
Quote:
The buildings at Fort Lowell reflected a Mexican Sonoran style of architecture. Buildings were built with think adobe walls, pine logs, and saguaro ribs supporting hard packed dirt roofs and wide hallways for ventilation.
Not to feed artificialintel's neuroses too much, but since you ranted about it:
"Their" is a possessive pronoun not a "possessive adjective." Adjectives describe nouns... And, yes, MacRulez, that "less" and "fewer" thing drives me nuts too. Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Actually 'theirs' is a possessive pronoun, like 'hers,' 'his,' 'mine,' and so on. The sentence "Please take mine," means exactly the same thing as "Please take my thing" because the possessive pronoun 'mine' serves in the role of the noun phrase 'my thing'. Possessive adjectives (aka possessive determiners), meanwhile, serve more like a definite article in that they describe something about nouns. "Get 'the' dice" is analogous to "Get 'my' dice" or "Get 'their' dice."
Thus, "their" is never a possessive pronoun and always possessive adjective/possessive determiner.
incidentally I did make a sloppy mistake: I called 'there' an "ordinary adjective", which is a poor way of describing it. It can fill a number of roles including adjective, but the most common are adverbial.
Then, there is the main road through Silicon Valley (and much of California): El Camino Real.
Locals refer to it as "The El Camino"... and they're too think-headed to change!
... And that's a tough road to hoe!
I'm sure you mean 'ho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artificialintel
incidentally I did make a sloppy mistake: I called 'there' an "ordinary adjective", which is a poor way of describing it. It can fill a number of roles including adjective, but the most common are adverbial.
Here in the pedants' corner, fenced off from the normals, their is no regret for error. It gives your fellow pedants grist for there mills.
Are you being serious or trying to make a joke? As the word is spelt realise in correct English.
I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.
I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.
I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.
I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.
As an American, colour me perverse, but I've always thought the 's' was more civilised.
Interesting, that time-of-borrowing angle. I wonder if it would apply to what must be my favorite candidate of a hyperforeignism, 'forte.' I remember reading an English-usage book in my youth wherein it pointed out that the word is a French borrowing and so should be pronounced 'fort,' as in fortification, not 'for-tay,' as if it were Italian. That would have been about 50 years ago, and do you think you can get away with saying it 'correctly' yet?
But there's hope, I think, because a more trans-lingual outlook is now possible, what with all information now available all the time instantly. The diffusion of a concept like hyperforeignism into this forum is an example of such noetic pressure in action.
I've come across that as well, although I concluded that grimly pronouncing it "fort" and then explaining the facts to inevitably bemused listeners was never going to get me anywhere. I briefly considered making a focused study of "coupes" so I could inform people that my forte was coupes, pronouncing each correctly and cementing my reputation as a ghastly weirdo, but I figured I had enough eccentricities to keep me busy.
I've come across that as well, although I concluded that grimly pronouncing it "fort" and then explaining the facts to inevitably bemused listeners was never going to get me anywhere. I briefly considered making a focused study of "coupes" so I could inform people that my forte was coupes, pronouncing each correctly and cementing my reputation as a ghastly weirdo, but I figured I had enough eccentricities to keep me busy.
Well, I'm somewhat sympathetic to the idea of continuing the 'mistaken' pronunciation because the extra syllable distinguishes it as meaning only 'forte' rather than leaving it ambiguous in some cases. As a reverse example, many military officers pronounce 'cache' like 'cachet,' creating a possible collision. Of course, it could also collide with 'cash' under the common correct pronunciation, so it's probably no worse. The best case would be to pronounce it like 'caysh,' a unique sound and a 'correct' (though secondary) pronunciation.
Speaking of which, can someone explain to me what happened where good old American English "niche", pronounced to rhyme with "witch", was suddenly switched up to the British/French "neesh"?
I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.
I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.
I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.
Glad to see you don't hold back, just throwing the insults around...
Yes, British English is correct English, not pompous, just the truth.
Speaking of which, can someone explain to me what happened where good old American English "niche", pronounced to rhyme with "witch", was suddenly switched up to the British/French "neesh"?
I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.
Yes, I've been meaning to mention that to you. Also, you put the old cover page on your most recent TPS report. I hope you'll make a note of it.
Yes, British English is correct English, not pompous, just the truth.
Sorry mate the British Empire went down a long time ago, and the UK itself is pretty much f**ed for the next 10 years. And hardly anyone speaks anything close to resembling "proper" English of any shade in the UK.
Speaking of which, can someone explain to me what happened where good old American English "niche", pronounced to rhyme with "witch", was suddenly switched up to the British/French "neesh"?
I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.
Ahh... If you go to the southwest US or northern Mexico, a feature of the adobe archictecture used in missions and homes is a recess built into the wall. The recess is called a niche and is typically used to display a statue of a saint or an objet d'art.
The word niche is pronounced knee-chay.
Even Nietzsche would have found its pronounciation ironic.
Sorry mate the British Empire went down a long time ago, and the UK itself is pretty much f**ed for the next 10 years. And hardly anyone speaks anything close to resembling "proper" English of any shade in the UK.
Well that's where you're wrong. The last vestige of the empire is a pretense at owning the language. Because as we all know, the proper form of the language is spoken in Essex. Or perhaps Manchester.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Ahh... If you go to the southwest US or northern Mexico, a feature of the adobe archictecture used in missions and homes is a recess built into the wall. The recess is called a niche and is typically used to display a statue of a saint or an objet d'art.
The word niche is pronounced knee-chay.
Even Nietzsche would have found its pronounciation ironic.
Isn't that the green stuff served in Japanese restaurants?
Who was it that commanded the chattering classes to use the expression "at the end of the day" to excess and beyond? And don't get me started on nuclear and realtor.
Comments
Interesting, that time-of-borrowing angle. I wonder if it would apply to what must be my favorite candidate of a hyperforeignism, 'forte.' I remember reading an English-usage book in my youth wherein it pointed out that the word is a French borrowing and so should be pronounced 'fort,' as in fortification, not 'for-tay,' as if it were Italian. That would have been about 50 years ago, and do you think you can get away with saying it 'correctly' yet?
But there's hope, I think, because a more trans-lingual outlook is now possible, what with all information now available all the time instantly. The diffusion of a concept like hyperforeignism into this forum is an example of such noetic pressure in action.
Hah!
In Tucson there are the ruins of an old Fort, Fort Lowell that was built on the outskirts of town.
The buildings at Fort Lowell reflected a Mexican Sonoran style of architecture. Buildings were built with think adobe walls, pine logs, and saguaro ribs supporting hard packed dirt roofs and wide hallways for ventilation.
http://oflna.org/fort_lowell_museum/ftlowell.htm
A small mexican community grew up around the fort, with small stores (tiendas) churches, bars, etc.
Ont of the streets leading to the fort, kinda' bastardizes the Anglo-Hispanic cultures...
It is named "Vista Del Forte Dr."
Tucson has a relaxed culture... so they'll probably get around to fixing it... mañana!
.
It is named "Vista Del Forte Dr."
That's got nothing on "the La Brea Tar Pits."
But I'm still working on "think adobe walls." I've been thinking about them all day, but still nothing.
That's got nothing on "the La Brea Tar Pits."
But I'm still working on "think adobe walls." I've been thinking about them all day, but still nothing.
Then, there is the main road through Silicon Valley (and much of California): El Camino Real.
Locals refer to it as "The El Camino"... and they're too think-headed to change!
... And that's a tough road to hoe!
You do realise for the longest time Apple has had DIFFICULTY MEETING DEMAND for the iPad/iPhone 4?
I think they're just about getting on top of it now. But implying that iPhone sales NEED to pick up only goes to make you look stupid.
You do realize it's spelled "realize" don't you? Misspelling that word then calling someone stupid only goes to make you look stupid.
I'm kidding of course, but so was he
Not to feed artificialintel's neuroses too much, but since you ranted about it:
"Their" is a possessive pronoun not a "possessive adjective." Adjectives describe nouns... And, yes, MacRulez, that "less" and "fewer" thing drives me nuts too. Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Actually 'theirs' is a possessive pronoun, like 'hers,' 'his,' 'mine,' and so on. The sentence "Please take mine," means exactly the same thing as "Please take my thing" because the possessive pronoun 'mine' serves in the role of the noun phrase 'my thing'. Possessive adjectives (aka possessive determiners), meanwhile, serve more like a definite article in that they describe something about nouns. "Get 'the' dice" is analogous to "Get 'my' dice" or "Get 'their' dice."
Thus, "their" is never a possessive pronoun and always possessive adjective/possessive determiner.
Then, there is the main road through Silicon Valley (and much of California): El Camino Real.
Locals refer to it as "The El Camino"... and they're too think-headed to change!
... And that's a tough road to hoe!
I'm sure you mean 'ho.
incidentally I did make a sloppy mistake: I called 'there' an "ordinary adjective", which is a poor way of describing it. It can fill a number of roles including adjective, but the most common are adverbial.
Here in the pedants' corner, fenced off from the normals, their is no regret for error. It gives your fellow pedants grist for there mills.
You do realize it's spelled "realize" don't you? Misspelling that word then calling someone stupid only goes to make you look stupid.
Are you being serious or trying to make a joke? As the word is spelt realise in correct English.
I'm sure you mean 'ho.
Here in the pedants' corner, fenced off from the normals, their is no regret for error. It gives your fellow pedants grist for there mills.
Thar be noo cause fer that sort a' merriment, yoo!
Are you being serious or trying to make a joke? As the word is spelt realise in correct English.
I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.
I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.
I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.
I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.
As an American, colour me perverse, but I've always thought the 's' was more civilised.
Thar be noo cause fer that sort a' merriment, yoo!
[Dourly] All the same, cheers, here's to interlocution!
Interesting, that time-of-borrowing angle. I wonder if it would apply to what must be my favorite candidate of a hyperforeignism, 'forte.' I remember reading an English-usage book in my youth wherein it pointed out that the word is a French borrowing and so should be pronounced 'fort,' as in fortification, not 'for-tay,' as if it were Italian. That would have been about 50 years ago, and do you think you can get away with saying it 'correctly' yet?
But there's hope, I think, because a more trans-lingual outlook is now possible, what with all information now available all the time instantly. The diffusion of a concept like hyperforeignism into this forum is an example of such noetic pressure in action.
I've come across that as well, although I concluded that grimly pronouncing it "fort" and then explaining the facts to inevitably bemused listeners was never going to get me anywhere. I briefly considered making a focused study of "coupes" so I could inform people that my forte was coupes, pronouncing each correctly and cementing my reputation as a ghastly weirdo, but I figured I had enough eccentricities to keep me busy.
I've come across that as well, although I concluded that grimly pronouncing it "fort" and then explaining the facts to inevitably bemused listeners was never going to get me anywhere. I briefly considered making a focused study of "coupes" so I could inform people that my forte was coupes, pronouncing each correctly and cementing my reputation as a ghastly weirdo, but I figured I had enough eccentricities to keep me busy.
Well, I'm somewhat sympathetic to the idea of continuing the 'mistaken' pronunciation because the extra syllable distinguishes it as meaning only 'forte' rather than leaving it ambiguous in some cases. As a reverse example, many military officers pronounce 'cache' like 'cachet,' creating a possible collision. Of course, it could also collide with 'cash' under the common correct pronunciation, so it's probably no worse. The best case would be to pronounce it like 'caysh,' a unique sound and a 'correct' (though secondary) pronunciation.
I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.
I think you meant to say that the word is correctly spelled "realise" in British English.
I seriously doubt you're claiming that British English is any more "correct" than American English. That would make you a pompous jackass. So I seriously doubt that.
Glad to see you don't hold back, just throwing the insults around...
Yes, British English is correct English, not pompous, just the truth.
Speaking of which, can someone explain to me what happened where good old American English "niche", pronounced to rhyme with "witch", was suddenly switched up to the British/French "neesh"?
I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.
Yes, I've been meaning to mention that to you. Also, you put the old cover page on your most recent TPS report. I hope you'll make a note of it.
Yes, British English is correct English, not pompous, just the truth.
Sorry mate the British Empire went down a long time ago, and the UK itself is pretty much f**ed for the next 10 years. And hardly anyone speaks anything close to resembling "proper" English of any shade in the UK.
Speaking of which, can someone explain to me what happened where good old American English "niche", pronounced to rhyme with "witch", was suddenly switched up to the British/French "neesh"?
I swear I never heard neesh from American speakers until a few years ago, but apparently a memo went out that I wasn't aware of.
Ahh... If you go to the southwest US or northern Mexico, a feature of the adobe archictecture used in missions and homes is a recess built into the wall. The recess is called a niche and is typically used to display a statue of a saint or an objet d'art.
The word niche is pronounced knee-chay.
Even Nietzsche would have found its pronounciation ironic.
Sorry mate the British Empire went down a long time ago, and the UK itself is pretty much f**ed for the next 10 years. And hardly anyone speaks anything close to resembling "proper" English of any shade in the UK.
Well that's where you're wrong. The last vestige of the empire is a pretense at owning the language. Because as we all know, the proper form of the language is spoken in Essex. Or perhaps Manchester.
Ahh... If you go to the southwest US or northern Mexico, a feature of the adobe archictecture used in missions and homes is a recess built into the wall. The recess is called a niche and is typically used to display a statue of a saint or an objet d'art.
The word niche is pronounced knee-chay.
Even Nietzsche would have found its pronounciation ironic.
Isn't that the green stuff served in Japanese restaurants?
Who was it that commanded the chattering classes to use the expression "at the end of the day" to excess and beyond? And don't get me started on nuclear and realtor.