I'd like to see the base size bumped up to 32 gigs like with the ipod touch, but with those specs above I guess I could live with 16 gigs as the base size.
I don?t understand this request. I?ve heard people wish for more storage capacity, but never wish for the option for a lower capacity to exist. Are you saying you want 32GB model to be at the $499 price point? If so, that is a very different thing to state, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas
iPad 2 and iPhone 5 - two devices with different resolution screens having same dual core GPU? I'm not buying this.
Why not? Apple can make one SoC that will sell in over 100 million units. Besides the R&D being lower for HW, there are drivers and OS coding that are easier and cheaper, not to mention this being a great way to capitalize on economy of scale.
They also don?t have to run at the same frequency. Apple advertised the A4 in the iPad being 1GHz but then only noted the iPhone 4 uses an A4. They both also use the same GPU according to the OS info. I think it?s a guarantee the CPU is underclocked in the iPhone 4 and a possibility the GPU is using less power than the iPad?s A4. The only known difference is the amount of RAM but as I?m sure you know with PCs altering the quantity of RAM or disk storage doesn?t mean new drivers.
It?s also possible that they?ll use more cores in the iPad?s A4than in the iPhone/Touch?s A4, with A4 being a general term for any of Apple?s ARM-based SoCs. If it does get 4x the resolution then I think 1GB RAM will be necessary, but this may not be needed on the iPhone/Touch this year.
Riiight. That's why a MacBook Air with a 1.4Ghz Core 2 Duo is flying off the store shelves.
Since when is a MBA not at performance parity? Especially the current one. There are very few if any 2 to 3 lb ultra portable, ultra thin laptops that offer the performance balance that the MBA does.
What I said earlier is a totally non controversial statement. It's aa if you guys don't think a dual-core SoC with a GPU capable of 70m tri/s isn't possible at current CMOS nodes. That's crazy talk. It certainly is possible. It's as if you guys don't think Samsung, TI, and Qualcomm won't be able to do it or something, even though they've already said as much. There are going to be a lot of dual core devices coming out throughout this year.
Very exiting news, but seems too fast. A4 was just introduced, and replacing it this fast with a dual core, dual GPU chip on both iPad and iPhone does not seem cost affective or even possible to develop and produce this many of the chips in such a short period of time. I will be very surprised if the chip makes it to both the phone and the Pad.
I wouldn't be surprised. Apple has shown they are more than willing to obsolete a product with a new one before others would have considered it.
Why not? Apple can make one SoC that will sell in over 100 million units. Besides the R&D being lower for HW, there are drivers and OS coding that are easier and cheaper, not to mention this being a great way to capitalize on economy of scale.
They also don’t have to run at the same frequency. Apple advertised the A4 in the iPad being 1GHz but then only noted the iPhone 4 uses an A4. They both also use the same GPU according to the OS info. I think it’s a guarantee the CPU is underclocked in the iPhone 4 and a possibility the GPU is using less power than the iPad’s A4. The only known difference is the amount of RAM but as I’m sure you know with PCs altering the quantity of RAM or disk storage doesn’t mean new drivers.
It’s also possible that they’ll use more cores in the iPad’s A4than in the iPhone/Touch’s A4, with A4 being a general term for any of Apple’s ARM-based SoCs. If it does get 4x the resolution then I think 1GB RAM will be necessary, but this may not be needed on the iPhone/Touch this year.
Why not? Well you just unswered that. It's more likely that iPad 2 will have quad core GPU (if we believe resolution will be 2xcurrent). I think at some point in time iPad and iPhone must go separate ways hardware wise. It's easy to put same stuff in both and underclock one of them, but come on these are two different devices for different apps and different screens.
iPad 2 and iPhone 5 - two devices with different resolution screens having same dual core GPU? I'm not buying this.
Um, what? Are you intimating that the iPhone, iPod touch will have a lessor GPU than the iPad?
Apple's been shipping the PowerVR SGX 535 GPU for 2.5 years inside the iPod touch 3/4 gen, iPhone 3GS/4, iPad, and AppleTV. That's like 4 different resolutions. They'll do it. It's the best way to amortize the cost of developing their SoC and to get great discounts because they'll be ordering millions upon millions of them. In 2011, it could be well over 50 million of them.
And since when does Android have better hardware than iOS? It always been performance parity. The iPhone 4 has comparable hardware to Android hardware. They may lag or lead by 3 to 4 months, but over the span of each iOS device rev, Apple has maintained performance parity in the hardware.
However, if Apple doesn't go dual-core this year for their next gen ARM SoC, they will not be at performance parity anymore. That's why we should fully expect it to be dual core CPU with 2x on the performance the GPU.
Android systems can go dual-core and Apple can remain on a single-core chip and Apple will still provide a hugely superior OVERALL experience compared to the sloppiness of Android.
The only folks nowadays that care about what's under the hood are nerds and tech-heads that still to this day seem to think that it's the size and/or speed of the CPU that matters. At this point given the speeds of CPU's, it's irrelevant.
A tightly-written and optimized system like iOS will always provide a better experience on "slower" hardware than what Android can provide and bleeding-edge software. I've used Android enough to know that it's a joke in terms of user-experience, even though the Android hardware is technically "superior" to what Apple offers, and you very well know that.
Very exiting news, but seems too fast. A4 was just introduced, and replacing it this fast with a dual core, dual GPU chip on both iPad and iPhone does not seem cost affective or even possible to develop and produce this many of the chips in such a short period of time. I will be very surprised if the chip makes it to both the phone and the Pad.
You do realize that generations of faster chip are really just essentially improved "photography" resolution in churning out "prints" of increasingly sophisticated photos in silicon that happen to function in predictable ways.
So no, it isn't an expensive leap to use the best processor available at an affordable price. Apple actually can't afford not to, as everyone else will be. We've heard all about the PlayBook and the new Android stuff, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that the number one mobile PC device vendor is also using the state of the art available.
The PC industry had gone interesting again. This time, it's also affordable. It's like the early PC days except everything has gotten 10x cheaper, so you can actually buy the stuff and it can sell to millions of people every year. That's driving the pace of development even faster.
It?s also possible that they?ll use more cores in the iPad?s A4than in the iPhone/Touch?s A4, with A4 being a general term for any of Apple?s ARM-based SoCs
The iPad A4 has half the RAM of the iPhone A4.
Remember when Intel took '486 chips where the math coprocessors failed and repurposed them as the 486sx? Maximizes production yield and profit. Who's to say Apple won't do the same with the next generation as I suspect they have already done with the A4. A little less RAM here, a fewer cores or execution units there....
Um, what? Are you intimating that the iPhone, iPod touch will have a lessor GPU than the iPad?
Apple's been shipping the PowerVR SGX 535 GPU for 2.5 years inside the iPod touch 3/4 gen, iPhone 3GS/4, iPad, and AppleTV. That's like 4 different resolutions. They'll do it. It's the best way to amortize the cost of developing their SoC and to get great discounts because they'll be ordering millions upon millions of them. In 2011, it could be well over 50 million of them.
I'm assuming iPad 2 will have noticeably higher screen resolution and we already now that GPU in current iPad is too weak for it at even 1024 by 768. 480 by 320 is not the problem for 535 though. What i'm saying is that at some point hardware should be actually differentiated. Quad core for the iPad and dual for the iPhone makes more sense. These are two different devces with differenr screens and purposes, you can't just put same stuff into them year after year.
Since the display, touch panel, casing and many other aspects of the iPad are very different from the iPhone you must be talking about the A4 SoC. What grounds do you think they won?t be using ARM or Imagination Tech GPUs? That?s really the only thing you could be referring to, hence it making no sense at all.
PS: I don?t get how you have assumed the iPad 2 will have a quad-core GPU just because the resolution is doubled. Note that the presumed GPU considerably more powerful than the current GPU. We also don?t know how much of the GPU is being utilized to push the graphics. So why not a dual-core PowerVR SVG543?
Since the display, touch panel, casing and many other aspects of the iPad are very different from the iPhone you must be talking about the A4 SoC. What grounds do you think they won?t be using ARM or Imagination Tech GPUs? That?s really the only thing you could be referring to, hence it making no sense at all.
I'm saying that you can't put same dual core 543 in both. You need to actually differentiate them. I understand it's good for the production costs and all, but ... I have an iPad and GPU is too slow imho, on the iPhone 4 it's ok though.
Elementary logic. It makes absolutely no sense for Apple to split hardware platforms. Economies of scale and all that.
There is a very smart reason that Apple produces basically one iPhone model each year, and why they have leveraged the A4 in every iOS device. It's a direct contributor to them kicking the crap out of all their competitors.
It started with them dramatically cutting down the number of products after Jobs returned. Again, if you can't understand the reasons, benefits and direct contributors to Apple's success that such a strategy has brought... then I doubt there is much I or anyone else in a forum like this could do to help you understand.
I'm saying that you can't put same dual core 543 in both. You need to actually differentiate them. I understand it's good for the production costs and all, but ... I have an iPad and GPU is too slow imho, on the iPhone 4 it's ok though.
Why can?t they? What is preventing them from put a dual-core GPU in the iPhone 4 and Touch? What rationale do you have to say that it?s not possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas
So why not quad core?
No one said they can?t use quad-core. You said they have to use quad-core. I stated that is false reasoning.
Comments
I'd like to see the base size bumped up to 32 gigs like with the ipod touch, but with those specs above I guess I could live with 16 gigs as the base size.
I don?t understand this request. I?ve heard people wish for more storage capacity, but never wish for the option for a lower capacity to exist. Are you saying you want 32GB model to be at the $499 price point? If so, that is a very different thing to state, IMO.
iPad 2 and iPhone 5 - two devices with different resolution screens having same dual core GPU? I'm not buying this.
Why not? Apple can make one SoC that will sell in over 100 million units. Besides the R&D being lower for HW, there are drivers and OS coding that are easier and cheaper, not to mention this being a great way to capitalize on economy of scale.
They also don?t have to run at the same frequency. Apple advertised the A4 in the iPad being 1GHz but then only noted the iPhone 4 uses an A4. They both also use the same GPU according to the OS info. I think it?s a guarantee the CPU is underclocked in the iPhone 4 and a possibility the GPU is using less power than the iPad?s A4. The only known difference is the amount of RAM but as I?m sure you know with PCs altering the quantity of RAM or disk storage doesn?t mean new drivers.
It?s also possible that they?ll use more cores in the iPad?s A4than in the iPhone/Touch?s A4, with A4 being a general term for any of Apple?s ARM-based SoCs. If it does get 4x the resolution then I think 1GB RAM will be necessary, but this may not be needed on the iPhone/Touch this year.
Riiight. That's why a MacBook Air with a 1.4Ghz Core 2 Duo is flying off the store shelves.
Since when is a MBA not at performance parity? Especially the current one. There are very few if any 2 to 3 lb ultra portable, ultra thin laptops that offer the performance balance that the MBA does.
What I said earlier is a totally non controversial statement. It's aa if you guys don't think a dual-core SoC with a GPU capable of 70m tri/s isn't possible at current CMOS nodes. That's crazy talk. It certainly is possible. It's as if you guys don't think Samsung, TI, and Qualcomm won't be able to do it or something, even though they've already said as much. There are going to be a lot of dual core devices coming out throughout this year.
Very exiting news, but seems too fast. A4 was just introduced, and replacing it this fast with a dual core, dual GPU chip on both iPad and iPhone does not seem cost affective or even possible to develop and produce this many of the chips in such a short period of time. I will be very surprised if the chip makes it to both the phone and the Pad.
I wouldn't be surprised. Apple has shown they are more than willing to obsolete a product with a new one before others would have considered it.
It's what gives their competitors such fits...
Android already has the hardware advantage and it still cannot compete with iOS.
And with battery life that's a joke unless micromanaged...
iPad 2 and iPhone 5 - two devices with different resolution screens having same dual core GPU? I'm not buying this.
Uh, why? The iPhone 4 and iPad have the same processor and different resolutions.
Why not? Apple can make one SoC that will sell in over 100 million units. Besides the R&D being lower for HW, there are drivers and OS coding that are easier and cheaper, not to mention this being a great way to capitalize on economy of scale.
They also don’t have to run at the same frequency. Apple advertised the A4 in the iPad being 1GHz but then only noted the iPhone 4 uses an A4. They both also use the same GPU according to the OS info. I think it’s a guarantee the CPU is underclocked in the iPhone 4 and a possibility the GPU is using less power than the iPad’s A4. The only known difference is the amount of RAM but as I’m sure you know with PCs altering the quantity of RAM or disk storage doesn’t mean new drivers.
It’s also possible that they’ll use more cores in the iPad’s A4than in the iPhone/Touch’s A4, with A4 being a general term for any of Apple’s ARM-based SoCs. If it does get 4x the resolution then I think 1GB RAM will be necessary, but this may not be needed on the iPhone/Touch this year.
Why not? Well you just unswered that. It's more likely that iPad 2 will have quad core GPU (if we believe resolution will be 2xcurrent). I think at some point in time iPad and iPhone must go separate ways hardware wise. It's easy to put same stuff in both and underclock one of them, but come on these are two different devices for different apps and different screens.
Uh, why? The iPhone 4 and iPad have the same processor and different resolutions.
And what CPU has to do with resolution?
iPad 2 and iPhone 5 - two devices with different resolution screens having same dual core GPU? I'm not buying this.
Um, what? Are you intimating that the iPhone, iPod touch will have a lessor GPU than the iPad?
Apple's been shipping the PowerVR SGX 535 GPU for 2.5 years inside the iPod touch 3/4 gen, iPhone 3GS/4, iPad, and AppleTV. That's like 4 different resolutions. They'll do it. It's the best way to amortize the cost of developing their SoC and to get great discounts because they'll be ordering millions upon millions of them. In 2011, it could be well over 50 million of them.
Um, did I not say iOS was smooth and the best?
And since when does Android have better hardware than iOS? It always been performance parity. The iPhone 4 has comparable hardware to Android hardware. They may lag or lead by 3 to 4 months, but over the span of each iOS device rev, Apple has maintained performance parity in the hardware.
However, if Apple doesn't go dual-core this year for their next gen ARM SoC, they will not be at performance parity anymore. That's why we should fully expect it to be dual core CPU with 2x on the performance the GPU.
Android systems can go dual-core and Apple can remain on a single-core chip and Apple will still provide a hugely superior OVERALL experience compared to the sloppiness of Android.
The only folks nowadays that care about what's under the hood are nerds and tech-heads that still to this day seem to think that it's the size and/or speed of the CPU that matters. At this point given the speeds of CPU's, it's irrelevant.
A tightly-written and optimized system like iOS will always provide a better experience on "slower" hardware than what Android can provide and bleeding-edge software. I've used Android enough to know that it's a joke in terms of user-experience, even though the Android hardware is technically "superior" to what Apple offers, and you very well know that.
Very exiting news, but seems too fast. A4 was just introduced, and replacing it this fast with a dual core, dual GPU chip on both iPad and iPhone does not seem cost affective or even possible to develop and produce this many of the chips in such a short period of time. I will be very surprised if the chip makes it to both the phone and the Pad.
You do realize that generations of faster chip are really just essentially improved "photography" resolution in churning out "prints" of increasingly sophisticated photos in silicon that happen to function in predictable ways.
So no, it isn't an expensive leap to use the best processor available at an affordable price. Apple actually can't afford not to, as everyone else will be. We've heard all about the PlayBook and the new Android stuff, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that the number one mobile PC device vendor is also using the state of the art available.
The PC industry had gone interesting again. This time, it's also affordable. It's like the early PC days except everything has gotten 10x cheaper, so you can actually buy the stuff and it can sell to millions of people every year. That's driving the pace of development even faster.
It?s also possible that they?ll use more cores in the iPad?s A4than in the iPhone/Touch?s A4, with A4 being a general term for any of Apple?s ARM-based SoCs
The iPad A4 has half the RAM of the iPhone A4.
Remember when Intel took '486 chips where the math coprocessors failed and repurposed them as the 486sx? Maximizes production yield and profit. Who's to say Apple won't do the same with the next generation as I suspect they have already done with the A4. A little less RAM here, a fewer cores or execution units there....
I think at some point in time iPad and iPhone must go separate ways hardware wise.
That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Um, what? Are you intimating that the iPhone, iPod touch will have a lessor GPU than the iPad?
Apple's been shipping the PowerVR SGX 535 GPU for 2.5 years inside the iPod touch 3/4 gen, iPhone 3GS/4, iPad, and AppleTV. That's like 4 different resolutions. They'll do it. It's the best way to amortize the cost of developing their SoC and to get great discounts because they'll be ordering millions upon millions of them. In 2011, it could be well over 50 million of them.
I'm assuming iPad 2 will have noticeably higher screen resolution and we already now that GPU in current iPad is too weak for it at even 1024 by 768. 480 by 320 is not the problem for 535 though. What i'm saying is that at some point hardware should be actually differentiated. Quad core for the iPad and dual for the iPhone makes more sense. These are two different devces with differenr screens and purposes, you can't just put same stuff into them year after year.
That makes absolutely no sense at all.
On what grounds?
On what grounds?
Since the display, touch panel, casing and many other aspects of the iPad are very different from the iPhone you must be talking about the A4 SoC. What grounds do you think they won?t be using ARM or Imagination Tech GPUs? That?s really the only thing you could be referring to, hence it making no sense at all.
PS: I don?t get how you have assumed the iPad 2 will have a quad-core GPU just because the resolution is doubled. Note that the presumed GPU considerably more powerful than the current GPU. We also don?t know how much of the GPU is being utilized to push the graphics. So why not a dual-core PowerVR SVG543?
Since the display, touch panel, casing and many other aspects of the iPad are very different from the iPhone you must be talking about the A4 SoC. What grounds do you think they won?t be using ARM or Imagination Tech GPUs? That?s really the only thing you could be referring to, hence it making no sense at all.
I'm saying that you can't put same dual core 543 in both. You need to actually differentiate them. I understand it's good for the production costs and all, but ... I have an iPad and GPU is too slow imho, on the iPhone 4 it's ok though.
So why not a dual-core PowerVR SVG543?
So why not quad core? Just look at what games a starting to roll out.
On what grounds?
Elementary logic. It makes absolutely no sense for Apple to split hardware platforms. Economies of scale and all that.
There is a very smart reason that Apple produces basically one iPhone model each year, and why they have leveraged the A4 in every iOS device. It's a direct contributor to them kicking the crap out of all their competitors.
It started with them dramatically cutting down the number of products after Jobs returned. Again, if you can't understand the reasons, benefits and direct contributors to Apple's success that such a strategy has brought... then I doubt there is much I or anyone else in a forum like this could do to help you understand.
I have an iPad and GPU is too slow imho, on the iPhone 4 it's ok though.
I'm curious as to what you are doing where you can tell that it's the GPU that is too slow.
I'm saying that you can't put same dual core 543 in both. You need to actually differentiate them. I understand it's good for the production costs and all, but ... I have an iPad and GPU is too slow imho, on the iPhone 4 it's ok though.
Why can?t they? What is preventing them from put a dual-core GPU in the iPhone 4 and Touch? What rationale do you have to say that it?s not possible?
So why not quad core?
No one said they can?t use quad-core. You said they have to use quad-core. I stated that is false reasoning.