I didn't say that and the Calculator is not a subcategory of a personal computer "PC". The main functional distinction of a PC is being multifunction and general-purpose.
Well all 3 "compute" and are all highly "personal" so therefore ........
Why couldn't Apple do this starting today -- why wait for iPad3 or even iPad2?
The reinstall drive already exists,
The AirPort Express already exists.
MobileMe already exists.
iTunes Music Store and App store already know everything you've bought from them.
The North Carolina Data Center already exists.
The Airport Express (package, as described) is the digital hub between all the services in the home to all the services in the cloud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Why do you need the Airport express at all? Not sure why you need the reinstall drive either but I guess it's nice to have.
If you wanted to force them to buy an Apple router I would make the base a iOS based TimeCapsule and allow it to store media for all iDevices including the aTV for those times the network is down and you can't see the NC data center.
$299 for an iOS based TimeCapsule to replace the host computer. Maybe buy the iHome company to get the rights to that name and rename it the iHome.
Ahh... I wasn't going to force them to buy anything. I was thinking that Apple could:
-- combine the Airport Express within the iPad charger as part of the iPad package
-- combine MobileMe (some minimum) as part of the iPad package
Depending on how aggressive Apple wanted to beL
They could offer only 1 SKU -- the iPod Package at the Current Price
or
A second SKU -- an iPad only at a reduced price (say $50 less).
You need the reinstall drive if the iPad bricks and you don't have convenient access to another computer.
Well Mouse and I got into it a long while back and while I can't remember the exact situation I am sure I posted something that came off bad and offended him so hopefully he can forgive me and we can both move on. Then with all the stupid trolling going on with users coming back under different names it just makes debates that much harder because people feel on edge.
Back to our point about personal computers while I'm not a huge Wiki fan I think this line sums it up best.
A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator. PCs include any type of computer that is used in a "personal" manner.
Any type of computer that is used in a "personal" manner. Its not about some mystery hardware spec that is needs to meet or even a software spec. It's about what any given end users may need for their own personal use.
I am sure there needs to be some kind of line when it comes to hardware and software specs, I wouldn't exactly put a Kindle the the catagory of personal computer and in many areas I feel the iPad is really on the line because I feel this first gen product lacks some software features limited by iOS.
Its kind of like with high speed internet it has to at least meet 4mbps to be considered high speed. ATT can no longer sell 256kps and call it broadband lite. So I agree there needs to at least be a hardware and software spec met which these days shouldn't be that hard for many devices to meet.
I mostly agree, with the caveat that the hardware and software specs change so rapidly that if we try to bound the definition of Personal Computer, we will always be out of date -- hence the arguments on this thread.
PCs include any type of computer that is used in a "personal" manner.
That's a pretty good definition to my mind....
Now, what's this thing called a "computer" that everyone is talking about...
While everyone is arguing as to what constitutes a tree, apple has planted a forest.
Wouldn't you know it? ... there's always some "smart ass" who knows exactly how to "cut to the chase" .... brilliant! Your comment "stings" .... but I can't stop laughing. lol
-- combine the Airport Express within the iPad charger as part of the iPad package
Paint me slow but I still don't get this. I would just assume the user has wireless access (3G or 802.11n) somehow.
Quote:
You need the reinstall drive if the iPad bricks and you don't have convenient access to another computer.
Sure, but you can just revert to a baseline iOS image on a hard reset. Since the reinstall drive is going to be an old version of iOS anyway they can stick that into a protected region on the iPad and try to update after you get back to a known good state. If you can't get there or managed somehow to wipe even the protected area then you need to send it in for service.
When I say "protected area" this could be as simple as saving a good iOS image somewhere in the baseband flash. OTA updates with built in catastrophic failure recovery isn't rocket science and something even Android manages
With Mac and iPad sales combined, Apple computer sales grew 241 percent year over year in the fourth quarter of 2010, vaulting the company into third place in worldwide PC sales research, firm Canalys revealed on Wednesday.
With Mac and iPad sales combined, Apple shipped 11.5 million units in the holiday quarter of 2010. That was enough for the Cupertino, Calif., company to edge out Dell, which has 11.4 million units.
Apple took 10.8 percent of global PC sales, according to numbers from Canalys. And with record year-over-year growth dwarfing the rest of the industry, Apple is now within striking distance of the No. 2 worldwide manufacturer, Acer, with 13.6 million units in the fourth quarter of 2010.
The addition of iPad sales helped Apple tremendously, giving the company 241 percent growth from the same period in 2009, compared with industry-wide growth of 19.2 percent. A year prior, the company sold 3.4 million Macs.
"Any argument that a pad is not a PC is simply out of sync," said Canalys senior analyst Daryl Chiam. "With screen sizes of seven inches or above, ample processing power, and a growing number of applications, pads offer a computing experience comparable to netbooks. They compete for the same customers and will happily coexist. As with smart phones, some users will require a physical keyboard, while others will do without."
The top vendor for the quarter was HP, which sold 18.7 million units, good for 17.7 percent of the market. While HP maintained its No. 1 position, it grew sales just 2.9 percent year over year, well behind Apple, as well as the market average.
"Pads gave consumers increased product choice over the holiday season," Canalys analyst Tim Coulling said. "While they do not appeal to first-time buyers or low-income households, they are proving extremely popular as additional computing devices."
Last week, Apple revealed record sales of Macs and iPads in its quarterly earnings report. The company reported 4.13 million Mac sales, a 23 percent increase over the same period a year prior.
Apple also sold 7.33 million iPads in the holiday quarter -- the first such sales period for the touchscreen tablet, which launched in April 2010. But since its debut, the iPad, with a starting price of $499, outsold the Mac, leading one Wall Street analyst to refer to the device as Apple's "Mac of the masses."
Once again I must say that the iPad is NOT A FUCKING PC
Wouldn't you know it? ... there's always some "smart ass" who knows exactly how to "cut to the chase" .... brilliant! Your comment "stings" .... but I can't stop laughing. lol
How does it sting? Is it the fact that a smart ass doesn't have a clue that when somenone is #1 there is only one place to go if they aren't careful? People have a short ass memory at times.
As good at Apple is doing their current Market Cap isn't even close to what Microsoft had years ago which I believe top 500 Billion.
Know what happens to a forest most of the time. Someone comes by and cuts it down.
While everyone is arguing as to what constitutes a tree, apple has planted a forest.
I think you are right on!
We are just pissin' in the wind!
While we are occupied bickering over whether the iPad is a "personal Computer"...
Apple is changing the meaning of the word "Operating System"...
While we ask 'Does a real "personal computer" need to attach to another computer to activate'...
Apple asks does a real computer need to boot before being used...
While we bemoan the lack of an iOS file system...
Apple asks if the user can benefit from an heterogeneous file system... Maybe something like FlipBoard!
I've been thinking a lot, lately, about the connotation of a "proper OS".
From a human perspective, I think that the iOS, Android, et al offerings are a lot closer to human needs than what we have been using for the last 26 years.
The Mac GUI with multiple overlapping windows -- started us down a path.
Then the Switcher allowed fast task switching among multiple applications and their open windows.
If we'd have frozen the OS UI here, we might be better off today.
Later, true multitasking allowed us to run many apps, each with their many windows an the same time -- maybe spread over several displays.
So here I sit with 15-20 apps, tens of windows, hundreds of tasks and processes all running at the same time.
I've even got 2 browsers running -- each with several windows open. Not only that -- some of the windows have multiple tabs (windows within windows within windows).
I can't concentrate! I can't find anything! I can't get anything done!
Maybe I can become even less productive if I setup some RSS feeds/readers to inundate me with even more things I can't find time to do.
Sigh!
I am going to take my iPad upstairs so I can get something accomplished.
How does it sting? Is it the fact that a smart ass doesn't have a clue that when somenone is #1 there is only one place to go if they aren't careful? People have a short ass memory at times.
As good at Apple is doing their current Market Cap isn't even close to what Microsoft had years ago which I believe top 500 Billion.
Know what happens to a forest most of the time. Someone comes by and cuts it down.
Easy there big fella. No need to put words in my mouth or make assumptions as to what I have a clue about.
Paint me slow but I still don't get this. I would just assume the user has wireless access (3G or 802.11n) somehow.
Sure, but you can just revert to a baseline iOS image on a hard reset. Since the reinstall drive is going to be an old version of iOS anyway they can stick that into a protected region on the iPad and try to update after you get back to a known good state. If you can't get there or managed somehow to wipe even the protected area then you need to send it in for service.
When I say "protected area" this could be as simple as saving a good iOS image somewhere in the baseband flash. OTA updates with built in catastrophic failure recovery isn't rocket science and something even Android manages
Those are both valid points.
I was just trying to cover all the nits in advance to foil the nit-pickers.
How does it sting? Is it the fact that a smart ass doesn't have a clue that when somenone is #1 there is only one place to go if they aren't careful? People have a short ass memory at times.
As good at Apple is doing their current Market Cap isn't even close to what Microsoft had years ago which I believe top 500 Billion.
Know what happens to a forest most of the time. Someone comes by and cuts it down.
WTF is wrong with you today .... have you not "gotten any" in the last little while ..... or what? A poster cracks a joke, which I thought was funny, .... I responded to HIM .... and you come back with this crap??? Extreme, as you know, you and I don't always agree, in fact, hardly ever .... but I have said in the past that you are perhaps the only poster, showing troll like behavior, that occasionally has some interesting things to say. Don't post like this and make me change my mind about you ... please. Have you lost your sense of humor???
Could this debate also be due to the fact that classifying an iPad as a PC helps boost Apple's numbers? But on the other hand, I thought market share doesn't matter to Mac users.
Could this debate also be due to the fact that classifying an iPad as a PC helps boost Apple's numbers? But on the other hand, I thought market share doesn't matter to Mac users.
It matters to shareholders, and since the number of corporate-type articles on this site seem to outnumber the technical ones, perhaps they are who this site is aimed at.
Could this debate also be due to the fact that classifying an iPad as a PC helps boost Apple's numbers? But on the other hand, I thought market share doesn't matter to Mac users.
Yet it’s Apple that chose not call the iPad a “PC” or Mac, and to require it to be tethered to Windows or Mac in order to activate it and get updates. You want to try that again?
Comments
I didn't say that and the Calculator is not a subcategory of a personal computer "PC". The main functional distinction of a PC is being multifunction and general-purpose.
Well all 3 "compute" and are all highly "personal" so therefore ........
Why couldn't Apple do this starting today -- why wait for iPad3 or even iPad2?
The reinstall drive already exists,
The AirPort Express already exists.
MobileMe already exists.
iTunes Music Store and App store already know everything you've bought from them.
The North Carolina Data Center already exists.
The Airport Express (package, as described) is the digital hub between all the services in the home to all the services in the cloud.
Why do you need the Airport express at all? Not sure why you need the reinstall drive either but I guess it's nice to have.
If you wanted to force them to buy an Apple router I would make the base a iOS based TimeCapsule and allow it to store media for all iDevices including the aTV for those times the network is down and you can't see the NC data center.
$299 for an iOS based TimeCapsule to replace the host computer. Maybe buy the iHome company to get the rights to that name and rename it the iHome.
Ahh... I wasn't going to force them to buy anything. I was thinking that Apple could:
-- combine the Airport Express within the iPad charger as part of the iPad package
-- combine MobileMe (some minimum) as part of the iPad package
Depending on how aggressive Apple wanted to beL
They could offer only 1 SKU -- the iPod Package at the Current Price
or
A second SKU -- an iPad only at a reduced price (say $50 less).
You need the reinstall drive if the iPad bricks and you don't have convenient access to another computer.
While everyone is arguing as to what constitutes a tree, apple has planted a forest.
Well Mouse and I got into it a long while back and while I can't remember the exact situation I am sure I posted something that came off bad and offended him so hopefully he can forgive me and we can both move on. Then with all the stupid trolling going on with users coming back under different names it just makes debates that much harder because people feel on edge.
Back to our point about personal computers while I'm not a huge Wiki fan I think this line sums it up best.
A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator. PCs include any type of computer that is used in a "personal" manner.
Any type of computer that is used in a "personal" manner. Its not about some mystery hardware spec that is needs to meet or even a software spec. It's about what any given end users may need for their own personal use.
I am sure there needs to be some kind of line when it comes to hardware and software specs, I wouldn't exactly put a Kindle the the catagory of personal computer and in many areas I feel the iPad is really on the line because I feel this first gen product lacks some software features limited by iOS.
Its kind of like with high speed internet it has to at least meet 4mbps to be considered high speed. ATT can no longer sell 256kps and call it broadband lite. So I agree there needs to at least be a hardware and software spec met which these days shouldn't be that hard for many devices to meet.
I mostly agree, with the caveat that the hardware and software specs change so rapidly that if we try to bound the definition of Personal Computer, we will always be out of date -- hence the arguments on this thread.
PCs include any type of computer that is used in a "personal" manner.
That's a pretty good definition to my mind....
Now, what's this thing called a "computer" that everyone is talking about...
Well this has been an entertaining thread.
While everyone is arguing as to what constitutes a tree, apple has planted a forest.
Wouldn't you know it? ... there's always some "smart ass" who knows exactly how to "cut to the chase" .... brilliant! Your comment "stings" .... but I can't stop laughing. lol
-- combine the Airport Express within the iPad charger as part of the iPad package
Paint me slow but I still don't get this. I would just assume the user has wireless access (3G or 802.11n) somehow.
You need the reinstall drive if the iPad bricks and you don't have convenient access to another computer.
Sure, but you can just revert to a baseline iOS image on a hard reset. Since the reinstall drive is going to be an old version of iOS anyway they can stick that into a protected region on the iPad and try to update after you get back to a known good state. If you can't get there or managed somehow to wipe even the protected area then you need to send it in for service.
When I say "protected area" this could be as simple as saving a good iOS image somewhere in the baseband flash. OTA updates with built in catastrophic failure recovery isn't rocket science and something even Android manages
Well this has been an entertaining thread.
While everyone is arguing as to what constitutes a tree, apple has planted a forest.
While that is great it hasn't always been the case. Apple forest is extremely young. For many decades they were lucky to have a tree.
For many years Bill Gates was the one everyone talked about and oh yeah Steve Jobs was the other guy that got mentioned sometimes.
With Mac and iPad sales combined, Apple computer sales grew 241 percent year over year in the fourth quarter of 2010, vaulting the company into third place in worldwide PC sales research, firm Canalys revealed on Wednesday.
With Mac and iPad sales combined, Apple shipped 11.5 million units in the holiday quarter of 2010. That was enough for the Cupertino, Calif., company to edge out Dell, which has 11.4 million units.
Apple took 10.8 percent of global PC sales, according to numbers from Canalys. And with record year-over-year growth dwarfing the rest of the industry, Apple is now within striking distance of the No. 2 worldwide manufacturer, Acer, with 13.6 million units in the fourth quarter of 2010.
The addition of iPad sales helped Apple tremendously, giving the company 241 percent growth from the same period in 2009, compared with industry-wide growth of 19.2 percent. A year prior, the company sold 3.4 million Macs.
"Any argument that a pad is not a PC is simply out of sync," said Canalys senior analyst Daryl Chiam. "With screen sizes of seven inches or above, ample processing power, and a growing number of applications, pads offer a computing experience comparable to netbooks. They compete for the same customers and will happily coexist. As with smart phones, some users will require a physical keyboard, while others will do without."
The top vendor for the quarter was HP, which sold 18.7 million units, good for 17.7 percent of the market. While HP maintained its No. 1 position, it grew sales just 2.9 percent year over year, well behind Apple, as well as the market average.
"Pads gave consumers increased product choice over the holiday season," Canalys analyst Tim Coulling said. "While they do not appeal to first-time buyers or low-income households, they are proving extremely popular as additional computing devices."
Last week, Apple revealed record sales of Macs and iPads in its quarterly earnings report. The company reported 4.13 million Mac sales, a 23 percent increase over the same period a year prior.
Apple also sold 7.33 million iPads in the holiday quarter -- the first such sales period for the touchscreen tablet, which launched in April 2010. But since its debut, the iPad, with a starting price of $499, outsold the Mac, leading one Wall Street analyst to refer to the device as Apple's "Mac of the masses."
Once again I must say that the iPad is NOT A FUCKING PC
Wouldn't you know it? ... there's always some "smart ass" who knows exactly how to "cut to the chase" .... brilliant! Your comment "stings" .... but I can't stop laughing. lol
How does it sting? Is it the fact that a smart ass doesn't have a clue that when somenone is #1 there is only one place to go if they aren't careful? People have a short ass memory at times.
As good at Apple is doing their current Market Cap isn't even close to what Microsoft had years ago which I believe top 500 Billion.
Know what happens to a forest most of the time. Someone comes by and cuts it down.
Once again I must say that the iPad is NOT A FUCKING PC
Thanks again for saying that. You are wrong on many levels but thanks again for stating your point with zero logic to back it up.
Well this has been an entertaining thread.
While everyone is arguing as to what constitutes a tree, apple has planted a forest.
I think you are right on!
We are just pissin' in the wind!
While we are occupied bickering over whether the iPad is a "personal Computer"...
Apple is changing the meaning of the word "Operating System"...
While we ask 'Does a real "personal computer" need to attach to another computer to activate'...
Apple asks does a real computer need to boot before being used...
While we bemoan the lack of an iOS file system...
Apple asks if the user can benefit from an heterogeneous file system... Maybe something like FlipBoard!
I've been thinking a lot, lately, about the connotation of a "proper OS".
From a human perspective, I think that the iOS, Android, et al offerings are a lot closer to human needs than what we have been using for the last 26 years.
The Mac GUI with multiple overlapping windows -- started us down a path.
Then the Switcher allowed fast task switching among multiple applications and their open windows.
If we'd have frozen the OS UI here, we might be better off today.
Later, true multitasking allowed us to run many apps, each with their many windows an the same time -- maybe spread over several displays.
So here I sit with 15-20 apps, tens of windows, hundreds of tasks and processes all running at the same time.
I've even got 2 browsers running -- each with several windows open. Not only that -- some of the windows have multiple tabs (windows within windows within windows).
I can't concentrate! I can't find anything! I can't get anything done!
Maybe I can become even less productive if I setup some RSS feeds/readers to inundate me with even more things I can't find time to do.
Sigh!
I am going to take my iPad upstairs so I can get something accomplished.
Thanks again for saying that. You are wrong on many levels but thanks again for stating your point with zero logic to back it up.
Here's his logic: A computer is a standalone device.
One sentence. Nice and concise.
How does it sting? Is it the fact that a smart ass doesn't have a clue that when somenone is #1 there is only one place to go if they aren't careful? People have a short ass memory at times.
As good at Apple is doing their current Market Cap isn't even close to what Microsoft had years ago which I believe top 500 Billion.
Know what happens to a forest most of the time. Someone comes by and cuts it down.
Easy there big fella. No need to put words in my mouth or make assumptions as to what I have a clue about.
Paint me slow but I still don't get this. I would just assume the user has wireless access (3G or 802.11n) somehow.
Sure, but you can just revert to a baseline iOS image on a hard reset. Since the reinstall drive is going to be an old version of iOS anyway they can stick that into a protected region on the iPad and try to update after you get back to a known good state. If you can't get there or managed somehow to wipe even the protected area then you need to send it in for service.
When I say "protected area" this could be as simple as saving a good iOS image somewhere in the baseband flash. OTA updates with built in catastrophic failure recovery isn't rocket science and something even Android manages
Those are both valid points.
I was just trying to cover all the nits in advance to foil the nit-pickers.
Wow... I guess I showed them!
Here's his logic: A computer is a standalone device.
One sentence. Nice and concise.
Sorry, but, by itself that one sentence doesn't represent any logic, just a statement.
How does it sting? Is it the fact that a smart ass doesn't have a clue that when somenone is #1 there is only one place to go if they aren't careful? People have a short ass memory at times.
As good at Apple is doing their current Market Cap isn't even close to what Microsoft had years ago which I believe top 500 Billion.
Know what happens to a forest most of the time. Someone comes by and cuts it down.
WTF is wrong with you today .... have you not "gotten any" in the last little while ..... or what? A poster cracks a joke, which I thought was funny, .... I responded to HIM .... and you come back with this crap??? Extreme, as you know, you and I don't always agree, in fact, hardly ever .... but I have said in the past that you are perhaps the only poster, showing troll like behavior, that occasionally has some interesting things to say. Don't post like this and make me change my mind about you ... please. Have you lost your sense of humor???
Here's his logic: A computer is a standalone device.
One sentence. Nice and concise.
And wrong, as anyone who's ever taken even an introductory computer science class knows.
Could this debate also be due to the fact that classifying an iPad as a PC helps boost Apple's numbers? But on the other hand, I thought market share doesn't matter to Mac users.
It matters to shareholders, and since the number of corporate-type articles on this site seem to outnumber the technical ones, perhaps they are who this site is aimed at.
Could this debate also be due to the fact that classifying an iPad as a PC helps boost Apple's numbers? But on the other hand, I thought market share doesn't matter to Mac users.
Yet it’s Apple that chose not call the iPad a “PC” or Mac, and to require it to be tethered to Windows or Mac in order to activate it and get updates. You want to try that again?