who is liable in this accident?
Okay, my girlfriend was in an accident this past weekend, and the cop blamed her.
I won?t tell you which car is hers, so you can be unbiased. I will eventually tell you which is which. Please discuss what car you think is liable and why. Please provide any laws or anything that can help. I am from Texas, but most laws are the same.
This takes place at a stoplight on a 4 lane street, 2 lanes going north and 2 going south.
The light has turned green and there is no green left-turn signal. A tan car is going to turn left onto another street, but can not because there is traffic coming from the other direction. So the car waits out in the street until the traffic is clear.
The light turns yellow. The tan car has to get out of the lane, so they turn left.
Just then a white truck comes through the light going the opposite way and hits the tan car.
The light was yellow when the truck came through, then it turned red during the wreck.
The tan car had turned just in front of the white truck, but had to get out of the lane.
The white truck had its front damaged, and the back and side of the tan car was damaged.
Which car was liable and why????
(let me know if this doesn't make sense)
dxp
I won?t tell you which car is hers, so you can be unbiased. I will eventually tell you which is which. Please discuss what car you think is liable and why. Please provide any laws or anything that can help. I am from Texas, but most laws are the same.
This takes place at a stoplight on a 4 lane street, 2 lanes going north and 2 going south.
The light has turned green and there is no green left-turn signal. A tan car is going to turn left onto another street, but can not because there is traffic coming from the other direction. So the car waits out in the street until the traffic is clear.
The light turns yellow. The tan car has to get out of the lane, so they turn left.
Just then a white truck comes through the light going the opposite way and hits the tan car.
The light was yellow when the truck came through, then it turned red during the wreck.
The tan car had turned just in front of the white truck, but had to get out of the lane.
The white truck had its front damaged, and the back and side of the tan car was damaged.
Which car was liable and why????
(let me know if this doesn't make sense)
dxp
Comments
But good luck proving any of it. The left turning car has to WAIT untill there are no cars coming, period. It may not be your fault technically, if they other guy was speeding, or decided to "make the light" at the last minute. But like I said, it's virtually impossible to prove.
When ALL lights are red, you then have a window to clear the intersection if you could not do so before the yellow expired.
In my state ( NY ), it is NOT illegal to go into the intersection while waiting for an opportunity to turn left. This is because there is so much traffic and no left turn signals at some intersections. No one would be able to turn left if they didn't do it when the light is yellow or just turned red.
BTW, Matsu is right, it is obvious your girlfriend was in the tan car from the way you slanted your first message.
<strong>I don't know how it is in your state but in NC it's illegal to roll into the intersection prior to turning. You've got to wait at the stop line until you can safely get out of the intersection.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]Originally posted by MasterZeus:
<strong>In my state ( NY ), it is NOT illegal to go into the intersection while waiting for an opportunity to turn left. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm interested in this - I always thought you were supposed to go 1/3 of the way into the intersection when turning left. Maybe it just varies by state. Anyone got any links about this?
The tan car due to it entering the intersection before it was clear (when the light was green) and turning on a caution (yellow).
You see that white line that you are supposed to stop at?
Well, you don't cross it until you are going to complete your turn.
(want to know why I know? Former police officer here)
I bet that it is illegal in NY too, they just don't enforce it. Surprised there isn't a big lawsuit yet...
and yeah, I agree..she's in the tan car.
It can't be right that you do not enter the intersection at all. Well, it can be the law, but it needs a little attention because there are plenty of intersections where a left turn is a virtual impossibility otherwise.
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
But we now have a cop telling us that's wrong, so...
I'd give a 75% the fault of the truck and 25% fault of the tan car.
The damage to the tan car was towards the back, indicating that the truck had ample time to evaluate the situation and stop (or otherwise avoid the collision), but didn't.
If the damage was on the front of the tan car, 100% tan car driver's fault.
Next case!
(Someone move this to AO)
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>
There are intersections I know that don't have turn lights, and only 3-4 cars get to turn at each light change. This is because when the light turns green, the first couple of cars go out into the intersection to wait for a spot. MAYBE one gets to go, but that's it... you're basically sitting there waiting for a yellow. Then 2 or 3 cars get to go through AFTER ALL ONCOMING TRAFFIC HAS STOPPED.
If no one left the stop line to get out in the intersection, and no one went through on the yellow, they'd be sitting there until traffic slowed down at 6pm.
Your girlfriend normally should have been able to turn towards the end of that yellow, but she also should be watching the oncoming traffic. I don't know how you'd prove just how late the truck was running the light, etc. There were probably lots of witnesses, but since this thing happened in seconds, they'll all be conflicting, no doubt.
Just be glad she's alive, dude.
Oh, and I'm moving this to Apple Outsider.
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
<strong>I don't know how you'd prove just how late the truck was running the light</strong><hr></blockquote>
Easy, the damage is towards the back of her car.
Nope. I'm from NY, too, and they actually encouraged us to do this when I took driver's education. I'm guessing they wouldn't tell you to do anything illegal, but you never know... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
-Mike
Easy, the damage is towards the back of her car.<hr></blockquote>
Unless the tan car sped up..or slowed down. See..many variables. Best thing to do would be to get traffic reconstructionists who specialize in skid marks and all that. But since there were no deaths or serious injuries, doubt they would do that.
I witnessed the exact same type of wreck when I was in Dallas just a couple of weeks ago. The car turned about half way through the yellow, and on came a truck flooring it and going through the light on the red. He hit the back part of the turning car and it was clearly the trucks fault.
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</p>
"When you turn left, give the right-of-way to all vehicles approaching you that are close enough to be dangerous. Look for motorcyclists, bicyclists, and pedestrians. On divided highways, or highways with several lanes, watch out for vehicles coming in any lane you must cross. Turn left only when you can see that it is safe."
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
<strong>She could have blatantly cut the guy off and gunned the car, even if he immediately hits the brakes to avoid hitting her, it'd be easy for him to hit her towards the rear of the vehicle.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How fast can you "gun it" while turning and maintain your turning radius?
There isn't much speed to be gained through a turn like that. It's not like she could've gone from 15mph to 80mph while turning in the same radius, I'd like to see a car that can do that (that would be painted tan, no less!).
There's no way the truck didn't see the tan car coming and "I have the right of way!" is no defense when you doing do everything you can to avoid a collision.
Basic physics tells us it's (mostly) the truck's fault.
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>