The Quartz Savior?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I have just read the following at the launch of the new Nvidia GeForce 4 GPU:-



"In a question and answer session following the presentation, Huang noted Apple's early adoption of the technology. Apple engineers are working very fast on implementing the features of the new technology in their own hardware and operating system software, he said."



Could this resolve sluggishness of quartz interface? It sounds to me like that is what the Apple engineers are doing.



[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: JW Pepper ]</p>

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quite possibly.



    It could also refer to Apple hustling to get the new OpenGL features implemented.
  • Reply 2 of 17
    check macnn's OSX general forum. there's a thread about this. apparently, geforce4 documentation states that it accelerates aqua.
  • Reply 3 of 17
    serranoserrano Posts: 1,806member
    w00t! someone was talking abou this... someone in another thread said not to worry about gui sluggishness that soon apple would use gpu's to help accelerate, not their own or some raycer rumor, and not opengl aqua, something that made sense...



    ibook needs g4, new gpu, thats about all it needs, i'm not gunna talk about ddr in an ibook



    why is this title the quartz killer? wont it be the quartz savior?



    [ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: janitor ]</p>
  • Reply 4 of 17
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    There is no raycer chip, nor is there any Apple graphics card. What we're talking about hereis merely Apple putting some talent and networking to work on a nice tight integration of the next OpenGL update with OSX. It ought to give a nice bump to Aqua as well as OSX native graphics apps. And it should probably encompase a feature set of approx Radeon/GF2 generation cards. Newer 8500/GF4 will naturally be faster still, but you probably won't see any features that those slightly older cards can't handle.
  • Reply 5 of 17
    Nice.
  • Reply 6 of 17
    That would be great if Apple could get quartz acceleration out of GPUs as old as the Radeon. It sounds like the OS X team might be in the "optimization phase" of OS X development, so we will see only modest gains in features for the next update or two, but dramatic improvements in performance. At least I hope so. If Apple pulls this off OS X will be unstoppable!
  • Reply 7 of 17
    tarbashtarbash Posts: 278member
    MMmmmm...



    PowerMac G5...



    GeForce 4 Ti standard (at least on top 2 models)....



    64-bit OS X 10.2 to take advantage of GF4 and fully optimized.....



    <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
  • Reply 8 of 17
    mokimoki Posts: 551member
    From Tom's Hardware:

    [quote]NVIDIA was also able to see that the majority of people are unwilling to pay huge sums for this new level of 3D-realism. Those people know that they can have fun even with games that are more than a year old. For those guys, NVIDIA is introducing GeForce4 MX, a product that is a derivative of GeForce2 and missing the funky features of GeForce3 or GeForce4 Ti. <hr></blockquote>



    So those of you who are underwhelmed by the performance of the GeForce4 MX in the new PowerMac towers now know why -- it is closer to a GeForce2 than anything else (though still a quite capable card).



    The good news is that the real deal, the GeForce4 Ti is available for G4 Tower PowerMacs now, and it seems extremely possible that it will accelerate Quartz in new and interesting ways, if Apple takes advantage of the features it offers.



    For a full writeup on the GeForce4 Ti, I suggest going here:



    <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q1/020206/index.html"; target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q1/020206/index.html</a>;



    As others have noted, the spec sheet for the Mac version does say Full acceleration for Mac® OS X Aqua Interface:



    <a href="http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=macintosh"; target="_blank">http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=macintosh</a>;



    Things could get interesting...
  • Reply 9 of 17
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by moki:

    <strong>From Tom's Hardware:





    So those of you who are underwhelmed by the performance of the GeForce4 MX in the new PowerMac towers now know why -- it is closer to a GeForce2 than anything else (though still a quite capable card).



    The good news is that the real deal, the GeForce4 Ti is available for G4 Tower PowerMacs now, and it seems extremely possible that it will accelerate Quartz in new and interesting ways, if Apple takes advantage of the features it offers.



    ..</strong><hr></blockquote>



    here an interesting link from agent 302 : <a href="http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/geforce4/default.a"; target="_blank">http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/geforce4/default.a</a>;



    This section may be interesting :



    While the GeForce4 MX sports the "4" designation taken from the GeForce family, the GeForce4 MX isn't a stripped down GeForce4 Ti board. Instead it's more of a hybrid GeForce2/4 board, incorporating a few of the features present in the GeForce4 and running the GPU/memory at a higher clock speed.



    An important technology that has been incorporated into GeForce4 MX is NVIDIA's Accuview antialiasing. This brings AA modes Quincux and 4xs to the mainstream market, and like the GeForce4 Ti, Quincux AA is essentially free. As a result, the GeForce4 MX can give the Ti 500 a run for its money with Quincux, making it a powerful AA card for the consumer on a tight budget. Unfortunately, the quad memory controllers present on the GeForce3 and GeForce4 Ti boards didn't make their way to GeForce4 MX, the GPU sports dual memory controllers instead. In a similar fashion, vertex and pixel shaders are also lacking, leaving the host CPU to perform these calculations.



    One unique feature that isn't present on the GeForce4 Ti boards however is NVIDIA's video processing engine. The video processing engine is equipped with an onboard MPEG2 decoder, resulting in smooth DVD playback performance. And with personal video recording functionality built-in, a GeForce4 MX-equipped PC has definite potential as a low-cost PC for general entertainment.



    [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: powerdoc ]</p>
  • Reply 10 of 17
    [quote]Originally posted by moki:

    <strong>

    As others have noted, the spec sheet for the Mac version does say Full acceleration for Mac® OS X Aqua Interface:

    <a href="http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=macintosh"; target="_blank">http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=macintosh</a>;



    Things could get interesting...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Not to rain on the parade, but this statement could be taken to mean "we've accelerated everything that Apple lets us accelerate, which isn't much". I hope that the situation is better than that though...
  • Reply 11 of 17
    serranoserrano Posts: 1,806member
    [quote]Originally posted by Matsu:

    <strong>There is no raycer chip, nor is there any Apple graphics card. What we're talking about hereis merely Apple putting some talent and networking to work on a nice tight integration of the next OpenGL update with OSX.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    thats what i said <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />



    [quote]Originally posted by janitor:<strong>not their own or some raycer rumor</strong><hr></blockquote>
  • Reply 12 of 17
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    Assuming that Apple is trying to harness the GeForce 4 GPU to accelerate Quartz / Aqua, anyone think it likely they will write drivers or extensions (or whatever is needed) to utilize the new Radeon 7500 card for the same - or the 8500 when (if?) it is released for the Mac? Seems odd to me that they would only try to utilize the GPU of one card when others might be capable of doing the same....



    [ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]</p>
  • Reply 13 of 17
    Here's the macnn thread

    <a href="http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=46&t=003478"; target="_blank">GeForce 4 Accelerates Aqua</a>
  • Reply 14 of 17
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    Thanks Bob.



    Though the people at MacNN are no more experts on the matter than we are, it sounds like there is verifiable evidence (from developer newsgroup threads and Apple comments) that they have indeed been working on improvements to OS X (hopefully 10.2?) that will allow Quartz to be accerlerated by the GPU. Further it sounds like anyone who uses a:



    Radeon Mac Edition

    Radeon 7500

    or Any GeForce card



    should be able to take advantage of this to some extent, which makes perfect sense. Apple would be nuts to only offer GPU acceleration for one or two cards.



    Time will tell I guess. On a tangent, I've often heard comments to the effect that Radeon cards handle DVD playback better than competing NVidia cards - any truth to this, and if so any indication from the specs that the GeForce 4 will put an end to same?
  • Reply 15 of 17
    sebseb Posts: 676member
    Moogs,



    I read in <a href="http://xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/Radeon7500_vs_geforce4mx/index.html"; target="_blank">this</a> article over at xlr8yourmac that the ATI cards do indeed handle DVD playing better than the NVidia cards. A 'report' from an ATI engineer explains why.
  • Reply 16 of 17
    serranoserrano Posts: 1,806member
    nice change on the thread title
  • Reply 17 of 17
    The thing that's funny about all of this is that no one has even used the full feature set of the Radeon yet, and that's 2 years old <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
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