iPad 2 or Xoom

Posted:
in iPad edited January 2014
I know everyone of you is going to tell me to buy iPad, but different devices suit for different people. So please tell me why would you suggest iPad to me.



I love to customize my devices for my taste and that is very important for me.

I don't care about cameras and their thinness.

I'd prefer bigger screen.

I need it to run smoothly without any lagg.

Best browsing experience. Flash is important.

I don't really care about games.

Big variety of apps is also important.

I think that's it.



So please tell me what do you think?



I'm not Apple user and I'm usually against them, but I'm not going to rule iPad out just because of that.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    tontontonton Posts: 14,067
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vasar View Post


    I know everyone of you is going to tell me to buy iPad, but different devices suit for different people. So please tell me why would you suggest iPad to me.



    I love to customize my devices for my taste and that is very important for me.



    There are a gazillion more cases and covers available for the iPad than for the Xoom. There are also a gazillion more apps available, so you can choose the best IM app, the best browser, the best Facebook apps to suit your tastes, rather than being limited to the far fewer apps available for Android.

    Quote:

    I don't care about cameras and their thinness.



    Cool. Don't use them.

    Quote:

    I'd prefer bigger screen.



    iPad.

    Quote:

    I need it to run smoothly without any lagg.



    iPad wins here too.

    Quote:

    Best browsing experience. Flash is important.



    Then neither the iPad nor the Xoom will satisfy you. Get a laptop. Flash for Android will make you want to throw it out the window, for anything more than the simplest, lowest quality video, which you can probably find online at better quality in a format that's compatible with iPad.

    Quote:

    I don't really care about games.



    Great. The iPad has a far greater number of useful productivity apps than Android. And Android has nothing that can approach the productivity of Pages, Keynote and Garage Band, not to mention the new Photoshop companion apps.

    Quote:

    Big variety of apps is also important.



    And I assume apps that are not engineered for "lowest common denominator" in terms of performance? iPad.

    Quote:

    I'm not Apple user and I'm usually against them, but I'm not going to rule iPad out just because of that.



    Many people do.
  • Reply 2 of 19
    majjomajjo Posts: 574member
    Personally, I wouldn't recommend the Xoom as there are better honeycomb tablets out now or in the near future, but:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vasar View Post


    I love to customize my devices for my taste and that is very important for me.



    A honeycomb tablet would be a better choice here then



    Quote:

    I don't care about cameras and their thinness.



    Irrelevant



    Quote:

    I'd prefer bigger screen.



    Don't get a 7" tablet then, between the iPad and the 10" honeycomb tablets, you're gonna have to decide if you prefer a 4:3 or a 16:9 aspect ratio



    Quote:

    I need it to run smoothly without any lagg.



    iPad. no question



    Quote:

    Best browsing experience. Flash is important.



    Honeycomb. tabbed browsing + flash.



    Quote:

    I don't really care about games.



    Then don't get games. Irrelevant



    Quote:

    Big variety of apps is also important.



    iPad.



    Quote:

    So please tell me what do you think?



    What I think is you need to consider a few things:



    1) are you heavy entrenched in apple's ecosystem? (eg do you have a large itunes music, video, or app collection?)

    If so, then the iPad is the logical choice, if not, and you do not want to be in that ecosystem, then you're most likely better off with a honeycomb tablet.



    2) do you want a laptop-like or a smartphone-like experience?

    If you want to use your tablet like a laptop, honeycomb would suit you better with its multiple desktops, widgets, multitasking capability, SD card slot/USB ports/HDMI port, and tabbed browsing.

    If you want to use it more like a smartphone, then the iPad offers a much smoother experience, and a much, much, MUCH more mature app market.



    3) what apps do you need or want?

    Honeycomb has more functionality built into the OS itself, but the iPad has a much, much bigger selection of apps. If you use a lot of specialized apps, then there's a much higher chance that you'll find that app for the ipad than a honeycomb tablet. On the other hand, if you use google services heavily, they tend to work better, or have increased functionality on android (at least on phones) than their iOS version.
  • Reply 3 of 19
    vasarvasar Posts: 2member
    Thank you Majjo and Tonton, I think Android tablet is better suited for me. If iPad were much cheaper then I'd go with that, but I don't see myself as a iPad user. ( had my doubts about that )



    You said that there are better Honeycomb devices out there, like what?



    Hope you guys don't mind this Android topic in your forum.
  • Reply 4 of 19
    majjomajjo Posts: 574member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vasar View Post


    Thank you Majjo and Tonton, I think Android tablet is better suited for me. If iPad were much cheaper then I'd go with that, but I don't see myself as a iPad user. ( had my doubts about that )



    You said that there are better Honeycomb devices out there, like what?



    Hope you guys don't mind this Android topic in your forum.



    The one that's generating the most buzz right now is the Asus eee pad transformer. Unfortunately AFAIK its out of stock pretty much everywhere.



    Here's a very in-depth review of it: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4277/a...sformer-review
  • Reply 5 of 19
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snivolk View Post


    I would say iPad 2. But in "Best browsing experience and if flash is importan" the Xoom is better.



    That sig needs to be toned WAY down. Welcome to the boards.
  • Reply 6 of 19
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    That sig needs to be toned WAY down. Welcome to the boards.



    Is he any different than the millions of spambots with signatures like that?
  • Reply 7 of 19
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vasar View Post


    I know everyone of you is going to tell me to buy iPad, but different devices suit for different people. So please tell me why would you suggest iPad to me.



    Just get what you want. If you're not happy, return. If you don't like doing such a thing, there's always the next year option.



    Quote:

    I love to customize my devices for my taste and that is very important for me.



    iPad. You can jailbreak and customize a whole lot, and the aforementioned accessories for iPad will be much more bountiful.



    In many ways, jailbreaking iOS is easier and safer than rooting, replacing ROMs on Android devices.



    Quote:

    I'd prefer bigger screen.



    A 10.1 inch 16:10 screen on Honeycomb tablet has 0.7 in^2 more screen area than the 9.7 inch 4:3 iPad screen. That's 1.5% more screen area. That's about the size of your finger nail. In addition, Honeycomb devices are basically landscape devices while iOS iPad devices are basically any orientation. Depending on what you want to do, this landscape vs portrait orientation characteristic will be the bigger deciding factor.



    Quote:

    I need it to run smoothly without any lagg.



    iPad.



    Quote:

    Best browsing experience. Flash is important.



    If Flash proper is a requirement, get a Honeycomb tablet. For everything else, and even pseudo-Flash support, the iPad will be better. It has better web browsers in general. iCab, Atomic, etc, are all very good.



    Quote:

    Big variety of apps is also important.



    Obviously iPad.



    Quote:

    So please tell me what do you think?



    It's sounds to me you'd rather not buy an Apple product for various reasons. I'd just not buy any tablet until Ice Cream Sandwich tablets are on sale. "Honeycomb" was released 6 months too early. It sounds like the Ice Cream Sandwich version will have much needed maturity and polish to it (actual release status instead of beta).
  • Reply 8 of 19
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by majjo View Post


    What I think is you need to consider a few things:



    I would like to challenge these assertions.



    Quote:

    1) are you heavy entrenched in apple's ecosystem? (eg do you have a large itunes music, video, or app collection?)

    If so, then the iPad is the logical choice, if not, and you do not want to be in that ecosystem, then you're most likely better off with a honeycomb tablet.



    Why would one be better off? You can use the iPad perfectly well without the ecosystem.



    One can still customize. The apps are cheap enough that they don't lock you in. And you don't have to buy or rent media from iTunes (books, music, video, ...) You can rip CDs and DVDs, transcode music/video, buy books from multiple different stores.



    Quote:

    2) do you want a laptop-like or a smartphone-like experience?

    If you want to use your tablet like a laptop, honeycomb would suit you better with its multiple desktops, widgets, multitasking capability, SD card slot/USB ports/HDMI port, and tabbed browsing.

    If you want to use it more like a smartphone, then the iPad offers a much smoother experience, and a much, much, MUCH more mature app market.



    Why make this weird distinct between laptop-like and smartphone-like? Both Android and iOS are smartphone-like. There's nothing PC like about them. There are inherent hardware limitations in the space that'll never make them laptop-like. Maybe next year. Definitely not this year though. The first big step to laptop-like has to be at least a windowing system along with 2 to 4 GB of RAM and bigger software loads.



    What's so laptop-like about Android/Honeycomb? Maybe access to the filesystem and widgets, but I'd submit that those things aren't that big of an advantage. The iPad currently has better USB, SD card and HDMI support than Android, no?



    The iPad supports simultaneously functionality for 90% of the use cases.



    And the kicker is that the iPad has more mature software with more functionality. That's approaching laptop-like more than anything with the OSes.



    Quote:

    3) what apps do you need or want?

    Honeycomb has more functionality built into the OS itself, but the iPad has a much, much bigger selection of apps. If you use a lot of specialized apps, then there's a much higher chance that you'll find that app for the ipad than a honeycomb tablet. On the other hand, if you use google services heavily, they tend to work better, or have increased functionality on android (at least on phones) than their iOS version.



    I'll agree with this. If one are entrenched in Apple's or Google's ecosystems, than their respective tablets are likely to be better for one.
  • Reply 9 of 19
    majjomajjo Posts: 574member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shrike View Post


    I would like to challenge these assertions.







    Why would one be better off? You can use the iPad perfectly well without the ecosystem.



    One can still customize. The apps are cheap enough that they don't lock you in. And you don't have to buy or rent media from iTunes (books, music, video, ...) You can rip CDs and DVDs, transcode music/video, buy books from multiple different stores.



    Its really hard to escape the apple ecosystem while using one of their devices imo. you NEED itunes for software updates. Even if you don't use itunes for anything else, you still need to have it installed for updates. You're also limited in what apps you may use by apple's App Store policy vs. the more laissez faire apporach of google + the ability to use different app stores or sideload apps.



    Granted, this is a non-issue for most users, most enjoy the benefits that the apple ecosystem brings; but there are some who just refuses to use itunes, or disagree with apple's policy on apps, etc. If the OP is one of those, then I can't imagine he would be very happy with the iPad.







    Quote:

    Why make this weird distinct between laptop-like and smartphone-like? Both Android and iOS are smartphone-like. There's nothing PC like about them. There are inherent hardware limitations in the space that'll never make them laptop-like. Maybe next year. Definitely not this year though. The first big step to laptop-like has to be at least a windowing system along with 2 to 4 GB of RAM and bigger software loads.



    What's so laptop-like about Android/Honeycomb? Maybe access to the filesystem and widgets, but I'd submit that those things aren't that big of an advantage. The iPad currently has better USB, SD card and HDMI support than Android, no?



    The iPad supports simultaneously functionality for 90% of the use cases.



    And the kicker is that the iPad has more mature software with more functionality. That's approaching laptop-like more than anything with the OSes.



    I'll give you that the iPad has more mature software with more functionality. In terms of what makes Honeycomb more laptop-like than the iPad:

    -you have a desktop where you can arrange icons and widgets anyway you please vs. a launcher with just a list of apps

    -you have a system tray and a toast notification system that resembles desktop OSes

    -you have a multitasking taskbar with tumbnail preview of apps you're running

    -in the case of the transformer, you can actually have a laptop formfactor using the dock with trackpad support and an actual mouse pointer

    see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfkZeIT9qmY
  • Reply 10 of 19
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I would not go with Android simply because of Googles ethical problems. That is not telling you to buy an iPad but rather not to buy Android.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vasar View Post


    I know everyone of you is going to tell me to buy iPad, but different devices suit for different people. So please tell me why would you suggest iPad to me.



    It is the best solution on the market right now.

    Quote:

    I love to customize my devices for my taste and that is very important for me.



    This is possible to some extent on iPad. Jailbreak and you more or less have a tiny BSD UNIX box. Since iPad is not your primary communications device like an iPhone you are at far less of a risk with a jailbreak. IOS is extremely capable.

    Quote:

    I don't care about cameras and their thinness.



    Personally I don't get the camera obsession either. However thinness will grow on you real fast. You are no longer carrying a computer around, but rather something that can be likened to a stiff magazine.

    Quote:

    I'd prefer bigger screen.



    Then you want a laptop! Seriously even iPads screen is a bit big for some usage.

    Quote:

    I need it to run smoothly without any lagg.



    Then you really need to stay away from Android. IPad is very surprising in this regard.

    Quote:

    Best browsing experience. Flash is important.



    You can not have those two concepts come into agreement. Flash on portable devices leads to terrible browsing experiences. So when you say flash is important I take it as you saying "I don't know what I'm talking about". Even worst, directly below you say you don't care about games.

    Quote:

    I don't really care about games.



    Then why bring up flash?

    Quote:

    Big variety of apps is also important.



    Apple wins hands down in this regard. The quality of the apps is light years ahead of the Android world.

    Quote:

    I think that's it.



    So please tell me what do you think?



    Well right off the bat I stated my position. Even if Android wasn't crap I still wouldn't suggest it. We as a community should do whatever is possible to undermine Googles initiatives. Their unethical behavior seems to get worst everyday.

    Quote:

    I'm not Apple user and I'm usually against them, but I'm not going to rule iPad out just because of that.



    Unfortunately as tablets go it is still early. Most of the Android tablets are unfinished as is Playbook. HP has yet to release so shopping around is not easy. One thing you could do is buy an iPad now and sell it latter if you desire a change. You should be able to do so without loosing all of your investment.
  • Reply 11 of 19
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vasar View Post


    Thank you Majjo and Tonton, I think Android tablet is better suited for me. If iPad were much cheaper then I'd go with that, but I don't see myself as a iPad user. ( had my doubts about that )



    IPad ones can be had very cheap new. Then you have the refurb store. Even without these discount avenues you still have a better value in iPad.

    Quote:

    You said that there are better Honeycomb devices out there, like what?



    There aren't! Most of the problems with the Android tablets come from a release of Honeycomb that at best passes as a beta.

    Quote:



    Hope you guys don't mind this Android topic in your forum.



    Well only if you let us change your mind.



    Seriously though you won't get a balanced discussion.
  • Reply 12 of 19
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by majjo View Post


    Its really hard to escape the apple ecosystem while using one of their devices imo. you NEED itunes for software updates. Even if you don't use itunes for anything else, you still need to have it installed for updates. You're also limited in what apps you may use by apple's App Store policy vs. the more laissez faire apporach of google + the ability to use different app stores or sideload apps.



    Granted, this is a non-issue for most users, most enjoy the benefits that the apple ecosystem brings; but there are some who just refuses to use itunes, or disagree with apple's policy on apps, etc. If the OP is one of those, then I can't imagine he would be very happy with the iPad.



    Such a person would be happier, but would they really be better off? The words "better off" connote a certain apolitical functional benefit to me. Reasons such as not liking iTunes or Apple are really of the non-rationale political belief variety.



    By choosing a Xoom over an iPad 2, one is giving up lots and lots of apps (functionality) for not much gain. One may do so for political reasons and be happier, and that is perfectly fine, but they are political reasons.



    Quote:

    I'll give you that the iPad has more mature software with more functionality. In terms of what makes Honeycomb more laptop-like than the iPad:

    -you have a desktop where you can arrange icons and widgets anyway you please vs. a launcher with just a list of apps



    On iOS, you have a desktop where you can arrange icons anyway you please. It's not just a launcher. In addition, you can nest applications one "folder" deep. On Honeycomb, as far as I can tell, you can't create folders on its homescreens.



    I'll give you widgets, but iOS is not absent functionality. With push notification badges, one can see the number of unread email, messages, and such. Since there is such speed in the OS, one can access certain applications and get the information from an app pretty fast.



    Quote:

    -you have a system tray and a toast notification system that resembles desktop OSes



    What does a notification system look like on a desktop OS? iOS does in fact have a desktop like notification system: push notification badges (these are in Mac OS X) and a model dialog box (these are in Mac OS X and basically every OS).



    And iOS has a system tray: it displays time, wireless network (type, wifi, bluetooth, etc) status, alarm on/off, location service on/off, and battery state. When the multitasking "dock" is out, additional functionality is provided (brightness, volume, orientation and audio controls for the background audio app).



    Quote:

    -you have a multitasking taskbar with tumbnail preview of apps you're running



    On iOS, you have a multitasking tray allowing you to switch applications. How much more benefit is the thumbnail preview? Something desktops didn't have until what, Win7? Or maybe it is Expose in what was 10.3?



    Quote:

    -in the case of the transformer, you can actually have a laptop formfactor using the dock with trackpad support and an actual mouse pointer



    iPad has lots of keyboard accessories. Are there any applications that can take advantage of the mouse pointer in Honeycomb?
  • Reply 13 of 19
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    My statement above about not wanting to support goggle because of the companies ethical issues can be seen as political. It does not mean the concern is not valid.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shrike View Post


    Such a person would be happier, but would they really be better off? The words "better off" connote a certain apolitical functional benefit to me.



    When I see the term "better off", I immediately have to think there is an agenda underlying it's usage. It is a passing of judgement without understanding or worst a belief in ones superiority.



    Every device is a trade off. In this discussion nothing has been brought up needs wise by the original poster that provides a basis for somebody to say:" this is the device to go with".

    Quote:

    Reasons such as not liking iTunes or Apple are really of the non-rationale political belief variety.



    In this discussion it does seem to be a matter of making a mountain out of a mole hill. For many of us iTunes is an integral part of our usage of the device. Could the syncing happen in other ways - certainly but what we have works really well. I simply don't see a rational reason why iTunes is even brought up in these discussions.



    I look at it this way, Apple built a system that covers a number of use cases really well. If it doesn't fit your needs then you need to look else where. That doesn't make it bad.

    Quote:

    By choosing a Xoom over an iPad 2, one is giving up lots and lots of apps (functionality) for not much gain. One may do so for political reasons and be happier, and that is perfectly fine, but they are political reasons.



    Yep apps and overall system design. I can make a very good argument that Androids JAVA based software is a big mistake. One could say that is political, but the evidence is pretty clear that Java leads to slow and buggy software.



    One thing is obvious is that Apple optimized it's core feature set first and then went to adding on functionality. That is the system software is heavily optimized for the hardware, both the CPU resources and the GPU. This leads to vary positive performance on all devices with all apps leveraging these optimizations. Conversely many Android devices have terrible driver support for hardware.

    Quote:

    On iOS, you have a desktop where you can arrange icons anyway you please. It's not just a launcher. In addition, you can nest applications one "folder" deep. On Honeycomb, as far as I can tell, you can't create folders on its homescreens.



    I didn't get this one either! It is like people commenting have never used an iPad.

    Quote:

    I'll give you widgets, but iOS is not absent functionality. With push notification badges, one can see the number of unread email, messages, and such. Since there is such speed in the OS, one can access certain applications and get the information from an app pretty fast.



    Considering how iPad functions what use would there be for widgets? This is another thing I don't get from the Android crowd. IOS can unfreeze an app like a calculator so fast that you simply have no need for widgets.

    Quote:

    What does a notification system look like on a desktop OS? iOS does in fact have a desktop like notification system: push notification badges (these are in Mac OS X) and a model dialog box (these are in Mac OS X and basically every OS).



    Another one I didn't get! It is like a total non Apple user was commenting. If it was suggested that Apples notification system needs work that would be one thing but the tie in to the desktop makes no sense.

    Quote:

    And iOS has a system tray: it displays time, wireless network (type, wifi, bluetooth, etc) status, alarm on/off, location service on/off, and battery state. When the multitasking "dock" is out, additional functionality is provided (brightness, volume, orientation and audio controls for the background audio app).







    On iOS, you have a multitasking tray allowing you to switch applications. How much more benefit is the thumbnail preview? Something desktops didn't have until what, Win7? Or maybe it is Expose in what was 10.3?







    iPad has lots of keyboard accessories. Are there any applications that can take advantage of the mouse pointer in Honeycomb?



    To be honest I'd like to see an open Linux based tablet that isn't an Android powered one. It would make somethings a little easier to accomplish. The thought of Python scripting on a tablet gives me wood. However I'm not too sure I'd be willing to give up my iPad integration now that I've had one for awhile. It is really hard to beat the current utility of the platform.
  • Reply 14 of 19
    majjomajjo Posts: 574member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shrike View Post


    Such a person would be happier, but would they really be better off? The words "better off" connote a certain apolitical functional benefit to me. Reasons such as not liking iTunes or Apple are really of the non-rationale political belief variety.



    We're arguing semetics here; I guess my definition of 'better off' are a bit more board. Also, while I agree that there are blind apple haters out there, there also are legitimate reasons to dislike itunes or the apple ecosystem.



    Quote:

    By choosing a Xoom over an iPad 2, one is giving up lots and lots of apps (functionality) for not much gain. One may do so for political reasons and be happier, and that is perfectly fine, but they are political reasons.



    'For not much gain' is going to ultimately depend on the user. You personally may not see much gain going with a honeycomb tablet over and iPad (and that's fine), but that doesn't hold true for everyone. People who are heavily entrenched in google's ecosystem / services, who perfer a 16:10 screen, who wants expandable storage, etc. may see differently.



    Again, I bring this up because I'm not a guy that blindly recommends an iPad or a Xoom, or any product for that matter. I always explain my recommendations based on how that product is expected to be used. Based on the OP I really couldn't say if he would be better served with an iPad or a Xoom, which is why I proposed those additional things for him to consider.





    Quote:

    On iOS, you have a desktop where you can arrange icons anyway you please. It's not just a launcher. In addition, you can nest applications one "folder" deep. On Honeycomb, as far as I can tell, you can't create folders on its homescreens.



    I'll give you widgets, but iOS is not absent functionality. With push notification badges, one can see the number of unread email, messages, and such. Since there is such speed in the OS, one can access certain applications and get the information from an app pretty fast.



    This is probably something we're gonna disagree on. Yes you can arrange the apps and add folders on iOS, but at the end of the day, its still just a grid of your apps. To me, a desktop just offers a lot more flexibility and customization. For example, I can set a desktop that shows my 5 most frequent contacts, last messages / wall posts from them, and shortcuts to IM, phone, and social networking apps. I don't see how you can get something similar from iOS.



    and Yes, you can add folders to the homescreen:





    Quote:

    What does a notification system look like on a desktop OS? iOS does in fact have a desktop like notification system: push notification badges (these are in Mac OS X) and a model dialog box (these are in Mac OS X and basically every OS).



    And iOS has a system tray: it displays time, wireless network (type, wifi, bluetooth, etc) status, alarm on/off, location service on/off, and battery state. When the multitasking "dock" is out, additional functionality is provided (brightness, volume, orientation and audio controls for the background audio app).



    Here's the notification system on Win7:





    Here's the notification system on honeycomb:





    Unless Apple has changed something since 4.0, the iOS notification system is outdated and intrusive. And correct me if I'm mistaken, but last I remember the status bar on the iPad didn't offer system tray functionality.





    Quote:

    On iOS, you have a multitasking tray allowing you to switch applications. How much more benefit is the thumbnail preview? Something desktops didn't have until what, Win7? Or maybe it is Expose in what was 10.3?



    I find it very useful to be able to quickly check the state of an app without having to actually switch to it, especially since there's no windowing system on iOS or honeycomb (yet). I guess this is another point you can disagree with me on



    Quote:

    iPad has lots of keyboard accessories. Are there any applications that can take advantage of the mouse pointer in Honeycomb?



    I don't think I've seen one that actually works like a clamshell of a laptop. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by take advantage of the mouse pointer. A mouse pointer is a mouse pointer; it interfaces with apps as a replacement for your fingers.
  • Reply 15 of 19
    majjomajjo Posts: 574member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post




    Every device is a trade off. In this discussion nothing has been brought up needs wise by the original poster that provides a basis for somebody to say:" this is the device to go with".



    which is exactly the reason I posted the more things for him to consider part



    Quote:

    In this discussion it does seem to be a matter of making a mountain out of a mole hill. For many of us iTunes is an integral part of our usage of the device. Could the syncing happen in other ways - certainly but what we have works really well. I simply don't see a rational reason why iTunes is even brought up in these discussions.



    I look at it this way, Apple built a system that covers a number of use cases really well. If it doesn't fit your needs then you need to look else where. That doesn't make it bad.



    I never said it was bad. What I said was: Do you enjoy using itunes? if so, the iPad is the natural choice. If you have issues with using itunes, be it legitimate or political, understand that the iPad does require itunes.



    Quote:

    Considering how iPad functions what use would there be for widgets? This is another thing I don't get from the Android crowd. IOS can unfreeze an app like a calculator so fast that you simply have no need for widgets.



    Again, if you don't find it useful, that's fine, but don't make the mistake of thinking that just because its not useful to you, means its not useful for anyone. I find widgets especially useful for displaying quick bits of information, and was one of the biggest reasons I switch from my iPhone to an android phone.



    Quote:

    Another one I didn't get! It is like a total non Apple user was commenting. If it was suggested that Apples notification system needs work that would be one thing but the tie in to the desktop makes no sense.



    again, the toast system on the bottom right hand corner is how most desktop programs I've worked with handle notifications. Sorry if your experience differs.
  • Reply 16 of 19
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by majjo View Post


    which is exactly the reason I posted the more things for him to consider part



    This I understand. Asking for help is great but sometimes we need more to work with.

    Quote:

    I never said it was bad. What I said was: Do you enjoy using itunes? if so, the iPad is the natural choice. If you have issues with using itunes, be it legitimate or political, understand that the iPad does require itunes.



    True the iOS devices require iTunes, the point here is that people seem to be left with the impression it is a constant tether. It isn't your iOS devices can run for years with outan iTunes connection. You really only need it for software updates and backups. Frankly one has to be a bit mental to see iTunes as a problem.



    That is a very direct statement but frankly I think it is justified.

    Quote:

    Again, if you don't find it useful, that's fine, but don't make the mistake of thinking that just because its not useful to you, means its not useful for anyone. I find widgets especially useful for displaying quick bits of information, and was one of the biggest reasons I switch from my iPhone to an android phone.



    You are free to do as you please. However realize that I will forever question your wisdom for making a move like that. Especially after the latest updates that provide for quick swaps of frozen apps.



    Maybe it is me but I was never able to grasp why I'd would want to mess with widgets on dashboard. At least with Dashboard on a Mac they where out of the way. On a tablet they are just old technology that simply doesnt belong there.

    Quote:





    again, the toast system on the bottom right hand corner is how most desktop programs I've worked with handle notifications. Sorry if your experience differs.



    The whole point is iOS devices are not desktop systems. Not even close. Also on Windows those notifications are at times more trouble than they are worth. You may like them or even be use to them but it would be a total step backwards to implement them on a tablet. Legacy behaviors have no place on tablet devices, along with a whole host of other failed desktop behaviors that don't work on a Touch screen. Like it or not you are advocating crap that has made Windows a failure on tablets for years. I'm not sure why you would want to drag Android down like that.



    In any event I still have more problems with Goggle the company than Android the product. For me Goggles poor ethics is reason enough to stay away from Android.
  • Reply 17 of 19
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by majjo View Post


    We're arguing semetics here; I guess my definition of 'better off' are a bit more board. Also, while I agree that there are blind apple haters out there, there also are legitimate reasons to dislike itunes or the apple ecosystem.



    I'm fine with this. After all, I didn't recommend getting an iPad to the OP after all. Get what makes you happy. If you can't, wait.



    Quote:

    'For not much gain' is going to ultimately depend on the user. You personally may not see much gain going with a honeycomb tablet over and iPad (and that's fine), but that doesn't hold true for everyone. People who are heavily entrenched in google's ecosystem / services, who perfer a 16:10 screen, who wants expandable storage, etc. may see differently.



    I'm perfectly fine with this statement. Get what makes you happy. There are lots of good reasons.



    Quote:

    Again, I bring this up because I'm not a guy that blindly recommends an iPad or a Xoom, or any product for that matter. I always explain my recommendations based on how that product is expected to be used. Based on the OP I really couldn't say if he would be better served with an iPad or a Xoom, which is why I proposed those additional things for him to consider.



    It's the additional things I'm challenging you on. Number 3 was no problem. Number 1, I'm questioning what is meant be "better off". With your answers so far, it appears to be do the thing that makes you happy.



    Number 2, I had the most problems with. To me, nobody is going to be using a "tablet" like a laptop. It just simply not possible at the current time: screen is too small, hardware is too limiting, OS is too limiting. This smartphone-like or laptop-like categorization of iOS and Honeycomb is creating a distinction where there really isn't any.



    The words matter. Nothing in Honeycomb will get you laptop like functionality, especially in comparison to iOS. The distance Honeycomb is to iOS is a lot closer, if not identical or even trailing, than the distance to Mac OS X or Windows on laptop.



    Quote:

    This is probably something we're gonna disagree on. Yes you can arrange the apps and add folders on iOS, but at the end of the day, its still just a grid of your apps. To me, a desktop just offers a lot more flexibility and customization. For example, I can set a desktop that shows my 5 most frequent contacts, last messages / wall posts from them, and shortcuts to IM, phone, and social networking apps. I don't see how you can get something similar from iOS.



    You don't on iOSs. The homescreen design of iOS is different then Android. On iOS, you can also put bookmarks of webpages on the homescreen. The iOS homescreen is not just a grid a icons. There is additional functionality. We can tell if we have new mail, new SMS texts, new messages from apps on the iOS homescreen.



    Quote:

    and Yes, you can add folders to the homescreen:



    This is the functionality on Gingerbread or Froyo or prior. I specifically stated Honeycomb, which is what is running on the Xoom. Maybe it has been updated with 3.1, but as far as I know, you can't have folders in Honeycomb or 3.0.



    Quote:

    Here's the notification system on Win7:



    Here's the notification system on honeycomb:



    Yes, there is a similarity there. But on Windows, there are modal popup notifications too. (System popups, per-app popups).



    Quote:

    Unless Apple has changed something since 4.0, the iOS notification system is outdated and intrusive. And correct me if I'm mistaken, but last I remember the status bar on the iPad didn't offer system tray functionality.



    Notifications are supposed to be intrusive. That's the way they were originally designed for OSs in the beggining. These pop-up messages still exist today in Mac OS X and Windows. Is having a notification collector like webOS or Android better? Well, the option of it there is certainly is.



    The iOS status bar is not user actionable, however, the multitasking bar is a double click of the home button and slide right away, where you can have access to audio controls, brightness/volume, screen orientation lock and quick access to the background audio app.



    Quote:

    I find it very useful to be able to quickly check the state of an app without having to actually switch to it, especially since there's no windowing system on iOS or honeycomb (yet). I guess this is another point you can disagree with me on



    Which apps? And what are you looking for in the thumbnail previews?



    Quote:

    I don't think I've seen one that actually works like a clamshell of a laptop. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by take advantage of the mouse pointer. A mouse pointer is a mouse pointer; it interfaces with apps as a replacement for your fingers.



    A mouse pointer is pixel perfect in its precision. A finger type is about 1 cm^2 precision. Apps must be designed differently for the two. Since all the apps are designed for touchscreen on this tablets, I'm questioning the value of have a mouse or trackpad.



    There's probably a clamshell keyboard accessory design out there. Here's something from Logitech:



  • Reply 18 of 19
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    Holy crap. That honeycomb screenshot is all you need to know. What a jumbled clusterfuck.
  • Reply 19 of 19
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Geez, are we still talking about this? I really hope he didn't buy a Xoom. That tablet is a dog in comparison to the Tab 10.1 and the Transformer.
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