HP exec dismisses Apple and Intel's Thunderbolt in favor of USB 3.0

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
PC maker Hewlett-Packard reportedly looked at the new high-speed Thunderbolt port created by Intel and Apple, but has decided for now to stick with USB 3.0.



HP's worldwide marketing manager for desktops, Xavier Lauwaert, spoke with PCWorld this week, and revealed that HP considered placing Thunderbolt in its new desktops revealed this week. But the company ultimately decided to stick with another specification also created by Intel: USB 3.0.



However, Lauwaert also revealed that HP has not ruled out placing Thunderbolt in future hardware. For now, though, the high-speed port was not appealing enough to the Palo Alto, Calif., PC maker.



"We did look at [Thunderbolt]," he said. "We're still looking into it. Haven't found a value proposition yet."



HP unveiled three new desktop PCs on Monday. One of the models, the Pavilion HPE H8 series, can be configured to include USB 3.0 ports.



Lauwaert said PC makers are "content" with the expansion of USB 3.0. He characterized Thunderbolt as a "more fancy solution" that HP is "not convinced" it should pursue.







For its part, Intel has said it views USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt as "complementary" to one another. The chipmaker has also encouraged developers to support both the Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 standards with any external peripherals.



Support for both Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 will appear in Intel's next-generation processors, code-named "Ivy Bridge." Those chips, which will arrive in 2012, are the successor to the "Sandy Bridge" processors that began shipping earlier this year.



At 10Gbps, Thunderbolt's data transfer speeds are 20 times faster than the current, widely available USB 2.0 specification. It is also twice as fast as USB 3.0, which offers 5Gbps speeds.



Thunderbolt debuted on Apple's latest MacBook Pro notebooks in February, followed by an iMac refresh released earlier this month. Apple is expected to quickly introduce Thunderbolt to the rest of its Mac lineup with subsequent hardware updates.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 132
    rindrind Posts: 66member
    Didnt buy HP Before or after this comment.



    While the Notebook I have to use at work is an HP, Its not my choice.



    Is it not possible to have Both Ports? If they want to provide options that would be a good one in my opinion.
  • Reply 2 of 132
    hittrj01hittrj01 Posts: 753member
    Quote:

    At 10Gbps, Thunderbolt's data transfer speeds are 20 times faster than the current, widely available USB 2.0 specification. It is also twice as fast as USB 3.0, which offers 5Gbps speeds.



    To my knowledge, Thunderbolt is 10Gbps in both directions at the same time. That's very different than just 10Gbps. And USB3.0 has a theoretical max of 5Gbps, and will surely never once reach that speed outside of a theoretical tech demo. Also, it's not, to my knowledge, 5Gbps simultaneous in and out (could be wrong, but I don't think so), so yes, it's fine for iPhones, point-and-shoot cameras, etc., but give me Thunderbolt any day for storage, HD recorders, SLRs... and let's not forget the ability to daisy-chain an Ultra HD monitor off of that one single port at the same time. Fancy? Yes. Worthwhile? Absolutely.
  • Reply 3 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post


    To my knowledge, Thunderbolt is 10Gbps in both directions at the same time. That's very different than just 10Gbps. And USB3.0 has a theoretical max of 5Gbps, and will surely never once reach that speed outside of a theoretical tech demo. Also, it's not, to my knowledge, 5Gbps simultaneous in and out (could be wrong, but I don't think so), so yes, it's fine for iPhones, point-and-shoot cameras, etc., but give me Thunderbolt any day for storage, HD recorders, SLRs... and let's not forget the ability to daisy-chain an Ultra HD monitor off of that one single port at the same time. Fancy? Yes. Worthwhile? Absolutely.



    The thing is, if not many companies are using it -- not just PC's but companies that make HD Recorders and external hard drives don't support it, then why should a company like HP support it?
  • Reply 4 of 132
    HP may not even be around in a couple of years. That's how well they're doing. So I wouldn't put much (well, ANY) trust in their assessment of anything.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post


    The thing is, if not many companies are using it -- not just PC's but companies that make HD Recorders and external hard drives don't support it, then why should a company like HP support it?



    That's a good and fair point. But it's also the problem with HP: There's not a cutting-edge or innovative bone in their corporate body. They'll do about as well as the cutthroat PC business does. No better. And maybe worse. Nothing distinguishes them.
  • Reply 5 of 132
    jcsegenmdjcsegenmd Posts: 105member
    That apple got back into the printer business. HP is extraordinarily irresponsible in terms of waste lack of compatibility and lack of reliability (in my experience)



    If HP doesn't support what is clearly a superior technology, then let them rot in their own offal
  • Reply 6 of 132
    pxtpxt Posts: 683member
    The race is on.



    PC makers will choose between adding Thunderbolt because it is good technology, or ignoring it to make Macs, yet again, the odd machine out and less compatible with most of the new stuff. HP have made their choice and, I suspect, are publically inviting the others to join in - after all, why gloat over a missing feature.



    Superior technology may have little to do with success.
  • Reply 7 of 132
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Apple knows what they are doing, thunderbolt is the new firewire, it will go into all the pro equipment, cameras, screens,etc., and coexist with usb 3.0 offering better functionality. To what extent apple can/will switch over itself in its peripherals to thunderbolt, is a moot point.
  • Reply 8 of 132
    strawberrystrawberry Posts: 180member
    I really hope it's not another FireWire.
  • Reply 9 of 132
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,538member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post


    To my knowledge, Thunderbolt is 10Gbps in both directions at the same time. That's very different than just 10Gbps. And USB3.0 has a theoretical max of 5Gbps, and will surely never once reach that speed outside of a theoretical tech demo. Also, it's not, to my knowledge, 5Gbps simultaneous in and out (could be wrong, but I don't think so), so yes, it's fine for iPhones, point-and-shoot cameras, etc., but give me Thunderbolt any day for storage, HD recorders, SLRs... and let's not forget the ability to daisy-chain an Ultra HD monitor off of that one single port at the same time. Fancy? Yes. Worthwhile? Absolutely.



    Each Thunderbolt port provides a full peer-to-peer, dual channel 10 Gbps transfer connection. USB 3 is also dual channel but master/slave and so even at the rated transfer speed, it will not perform at or near the rated capability depending on the type of transaction, whereas TB might. The innovation in USB 3, (over USB 2), apart from speed, is that the slave can poll the master requesting a transaction which wasn't previously possible. With TB connected devices however, all connected devices (when daisy chained for example), can initiate a transaction, not merely request one. TB eats USB 3.
  • Reply 10 of 132
    jbro1999jbro1999 Posts: 38member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post


    I really hope it's not another FireWire.



    Can't you use USB3 in a Thunderbolt port?
  • Reply 11 of 132
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    This episode of Sour Grapes has been brought to you by HP.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post


    To my knowledge, Thunderbolt is 10Gbps in both directions at the same time. That's very different than just 10Gbps. And USB3.0 has a theoretical max of 5Gbps, and will surely never once reach that speed outside of a theoretical tech demo. Also, it's not, to my knowledge, 5Gbps simultaneous in and out (could be wrong, but I don't think so), so yes, it's fine for iPhones, point-and-shoot cameras, etc., but give me Thunderbolt any day for storage, HD recorders, SLRs... and let's not forget the ability to daisy-chain an Ultra HD monitor off of that one single port at the same time. Fancy? Yes. Worthwhile? Absolutely.



    That?s how I understand it.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post


    The thing is, if not many companies are using it -- not just PC's but companies that make HD Recorders and external hard drives don't support it, then why should a company like HP support it?



    I suppose the same could be said about USB3.0 and any other port interface tech that is now standardized. We only started to see a decent number of USB3.0 capable accessories at this year?s CES.



    What percentage of HP?s machines offer USB3.0? Since most of their sales are very inexpensive machines I bet the number is quite low.



    With Intel adding both USB3.0 and Thunderbolt alongside Ivy Bridge, and Apple being their vehicle to advertise Thunderbolt ? not to mention it?s inherent benefits and the continuing need for a display out option ? I bet HP will be supporting Thunderbolt as soon as the exclusivity between Apple and Intel is over. I also expect to see plenty of Thunderbolt-capable peripherals at CES next year.
  • Reply 12 of 132
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Well, it's not going to replace usb 3.0 anytime soon, and it will run alongside it very successfully as firewire did giving superior speeds at every point of it's lifecycle to usb. By the time they both run their course everything will be so wireless it will be immaterial who takes over the market in the very long run. None, I would wager.
  • Reply 13 of 132
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Ah, yes... HP... the company that just gave a dismal forecast and is now down 8%.



    The company of brilliant decisions...



    Meanwhile... AAPL is up .25%
  • Reply 14 of 132
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    Is Thunderbolt suitable for all uses? Would a Thunderbolt memory stick be viable?



    I have no idea about how expensive Thunderbolt is to implement or what the licensing fees are like.



    From a position of ignorance, Thunderbolt has all of the characteristics of Firewire mkII.
  • Reply 15 of 132
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,538member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post


    HP may not even be around in a couple of years. That's how well they're doing. So I wouldn't put much (well, ANY) trust in their assessment of anything.







    That's a good and fair point. But it's also the problem with HP: There's not a cutting-edge or innovative bone in their corporate body. They'll do about as well as the cutthroat PC business does. No better. And maybe worse. Nothing distinguishes them.



    The sad fact is that HP used to be the epitome of cutting edge. That is the part of their DNA that Taligent took with them when they split off. HP was founded and run by engineers (Hewlett and Packard) and I believe, greatly admired by Jobs and Wosniak. HP was one of the pioneers of 'just-in-time' manufacturing for example.
  • Reply 16 of 132
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post


    I really hope it's not another FireWire.



    I don?t think that?s possible.



    Consider the major differences:
    • Supported by Intel the way USB was supported by Intel.

    • Uses the same port as mDP with little chance of radically switching port interface designs between the 1st and 2nd generations.

    • This is the big one: Licensing costs aren't restrictive like we saw with FireWire.

  • Reply 17 of 132
    In 2012 Ivy Bridge will support USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt, and we'll see what happens. In the meantime, the best use for Thunderbolt is as an uber-docking port for the MacBook Air... except that MBA doesn't yet support Thunderbolt. Also, there's no docking port (or anything else to plug in).



    Other than that, I love Thunderbolt as vaporware. It's like the android phone that will beat the iPhone, just as soon as Android 9 ("Paddycake") comes out.
  • Reply 18 of 132
    applestudapplestud Posts: 367member
    the things USB is good for are going wireless (keyboard, mouse, printer). The things Thunderbolt is good for demand higher throughput than USB 3.0 (external storage, HD cameras, external monitor support). Thunderbolt wins in a landslide.



    Frankly, I don't care what HP does, since I don't use their products. Apple stood by Firewire for a decade (and continues to stand by) with almost no industry support; I see no reason to worry about whether HP, Dell, or anyone else supports Thunderbolt.
  • Reply 19 of 132
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RichL View Post


    Would a Thunderbolt memory stick be viable?



    Possible, sure. Viable, maybe not for awhile. The cost of the Thunderbolt controller in the memory stick and read/write speed of NAND found in memory sticks will likely keep this from becoming common even though I?m sure you?ll see some vendor attempt it.
  • Reply 20 of 132
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,538member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Well, it's not going to replace usb 3.0 anytime soon, and it will run alongside it very successfully as firewire did giving superior speeds at every point of it's lifecycle to usb. By the time they both run their course everything will be so wireless it will be immaterial who takes over the market in the very long run. None, I would wager.



    Firewire and USB 2 were used for essentially the same purpose, pulling and pushing data to and from devices. Thunderbolt however has much greater potential due to its speed and architecture, such as driving multiple monitors. The new iMacs can drive two for example.
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