Political Cola?
Linked below is a piece on the politics of cola and hate:
If people don't want to drink coke by all means they are free to drink mud for all I care.
I think the method of hate displayed by this culture of "Hate America First" bunch is really stupid.
It is just as stupid as a white American living in fly over country that hates the Japanese and will not buy "Jap Crap". That is bigoted and wrong so is this smiling clown selling his hate soda.
It is bigotry. I find it to be sick.
Quote from piece:
[quote]<strong>It is all about combating "America's imperialism and Zionism by providing a substitute for American goods and increasing the blockade of countries boycotting American goods," Mr Mathlouthi told BBC News Online.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Quote 2: [quote]<strong>"Mr Mathlouthi says America must change its policies"<hr></blockquote></strong>
Translation = America must adapt Islamic Law.
Quote 3: [quote]<strong>Popular anger against the United States over its support for Israel amid the Palestinian intifada has sparked a campaign to boycott American products throughout Arab countries.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Translation = Arabs Hate Jews and those who support Jews.
Very sad. It is not so different from the hate we found on the planet about 50 years ago in Europe against the Jews.
People with any care in regard to freedom and human rights should stand up to this method of selling product for the sole purpose of spreading hate.
link:
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2640259.stm"; target="_blank">Hate Cola</a>
Your thoughts?
Fellowship
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
If people don't want to drink coke by all means they are free to drink mud for all I care.
I think the method of hate displayed by this culture of "Hate America First" bunch is really stupid.
It is just as stupid as a white American living in fly over country that hates the Japanese and will not buy "Jap Crap". That is bigoted and wrong so is this smiling clown selling his hate soda.
It is bigotry. I find it to be sick.
Quote from piece:
[quote]<strong>It is all about combating "America's imperialism and Zionism by providing a substitute for American goods and increasing the blockade of countries boycotting American goods," Mr Mathlouthi told BBC News Online.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Quote 2: [quote]<strong>"Mr Mathlouthi says America must change its policies"<hr></blockquote></strong>
Translation = America must adapt Islamic Law.
Quote 3: [quote]<strong>Popular anger against the United States over its support for Israel amid the Palestinian intifada has sparked a campaign to boycott American products throughout Arab countries.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Translation = Arabs Hate Jews and those who support Jews.
Very sad. It is not so different from the hate we found on the planet about 50 years ago in Europe against the Jews.
People with any care in regard to freedom and human rights should stand up to this method of selling product for the sole purpose of spreading hate.
link:
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2640259.stm"; target="_blank">Hate Cola</a>
Your thoughts?
Fellowship
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
Comments
When is feudalism going to die? Answer: within 2000 years.
That figure is part of a fairly long dinner-table theory I made a few weeks ago.
<strong>Well, let them try their boycott. Not much will come of it. However, I can't say I blame them, as I will never buy a japanese or korean car. So I can't honestly say that what they are doing is wrong when I do the same (albeit for different, less political, more design related reasons).</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm still waiting for the Snoop Deville.
quote:
"Mr Mathlouthi says America must change its policies"
Translation = America must adapt Islamic Law.<hr></blockquote>
Eh? No it doesn´t translate to that. Perhaps it means he wants US out of the middle east, stop all exports of american goods to the middle east aso but the only people really interested in the home policy of US are us euro-commie bastards.
You can disagree with that (that US should stop all "cultural exports" and keep its military out of the rest of the world). I disagree with that view. But don´t assume that those who dislike the foreign policy of US care one cent about whats going on inside US.
[quote]
Quote 3:
quote:
Popular anger against the United States over its support for Israel amid the Palestinian intifada has sparked a campaign to boycott American products throughout Arab countries.
Translation = Arabs Hate Jews and those who support Jews. <hr></blockquote>
Sorry no. It wouldn´t be that far away from me to do to boycott american goods if I thought it helped anything about US policies. But I surely doesn´t hate Jews or Israel. I have 10+ good friends in Israel and most I met there are very nice people. Heck I have even been in love with an Israeli girl once and I plan to live there for some years at one point in time.
It really surprise me that you can´t see the difference. I only thought we had one lost case on the forum regarding that.
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Anders the White ]</p>
Call me what you will, but having 10+ friends in Israel who you say are nice isn't going to cut it for me. The Israelis and the Palestinians have been insanely warlike over the past 50 years. They have developed cultures of hate.
And I hate to seem anti-Europe (again), but if you want someone to blame for Israel vs Palestine, it's Europe, not America. We've ended up as this global peacekeeper because until recently (last few decades) Europe was too internally warlike to get anything done as part of a self-lead coalition. The whole deal with Israel is another can of worms.
I don't like the US foreign policy either, but if we stopped, domestic and foreign newspapers would whine about our pacifism. It's a no-win situation for us, just like it was in 1917, when an unfortunate European war lead to a sequence of events that today mean I have a big income tax and a draft form to fill out. Seems petty to you, but America is supposed to be the Un-Europe. . . that's why it was founded.
Our cultural exports are to be expected. Nobody hates us for that aside from hoity-toity European aristocrats and those in power who hate the freedom of capitalism. Most of the people in Arab countries have no ill towards America, it's just the leaders who do. In fact, the only Arab country with a general displeasure towards America is Saudi Arabia, because the people there hate their government, which supports America.
Cultures will diffuse. This you cannot prevent no matter how hard you try. I don't really understand why so many europeans are so afraid of American cultural diffusion. Unless you're still living in a crumbling feudal state where social graces are the only measures of worth, there's really nothing evil about differing cultures. In America we call it diversity, and it's generally a positive thing.
Of course, most Arab governments are such feudal enterprises, trying so hard to preserve appearances (and their own power). France is also a crumbling feudal state, but that's a bit different.
So my conclusion: The only Arabs who really hate Jews are the Palestinians, and understandably so. The rest are aligned via a cultural and social bond, similar to the one in Europe (The EU, and the general push among lawmakers to give America petty trouble), and it's mainly the leaders who care, because they live in a feudal system and they're trying desperately to preserve appearances. But, of course, it's the leaders we have to deal with, and it's the leaders we want to get rid of, for said reasons.
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</p>
Im just using myself as an example to say that FCiBs "translations" of the quotes aren´t justified. Boycott of US products over its support to Israel doesn´t in itself means hate towards Jews. I don´t have that hate even thought I wouldn´t be immune to that kind of action.
[quote]quote:
"Mr Mathlouthi says America must change its policies"
Translation = America must adapt Islamic Law. <hr></blockquote>
According to FCiB this makes me a Jew-hater.
I'm a Jew. I don't hate myself. Or my Israeli friends and family. Or Israel. Or America.
What I do hate is fundamentalism (such as FCiB's) and reductive simplistic ideas of religion and international relations.
What FCiB is saying is a variation of "You're either with us or you're against us."
What if I'm a secular capitalist that despises terrorism, aknowledges the need to fight from time to time but thinks Geeeeoruj is a moron, current US foreign policy is going to kill us all and will not, can not, accept the stupidity of what's being put in front of us?
Let those Arabs do anything they want. I would like to see them in 30 years time when their oil runs out. They will be in DEEP trouble. They spend too much of their money on religion and warfare. They are not doing themselves any favour by rejecting US and other foreign investments.
<strong>I think US policy vis a vis Israel and Iraq is wrong, hypocritical and certain to increase the level of Islamic fundamentalism in the world.
According to FCiB this makes me a Jew-hater.
I'm a Jew. I don't hate myself. Or my Israeli friends and family. Or Israel. Or America.
What I do hate is fundamentalism (such as FCiB's) and reductive simplistic ideas of religion and international relations.
What FCiB is saying is a variation of "You're either with us or you're against us."
What if I'm a secular capitalist that despises terrorism, aknowledges the need to fight from time to time but thinks Geeeeoruj is a moron, current US foreign policy is going to kill us all and will not, can not, accept the stupidity of what's being put in front of us?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I second what the antisemite said.
<strong>I think US policy vis a vis Israel and Iraq is wrong, hypocritical and certain to increase the level of Islamic fundamentalism in the world.
According to FCiB this makes me a Jew-hater.
I'm a Jew. I don't hate myself. Or my Israeli friends and family. Or Israel. Or America.
What I do hate is fundamentalism (such as FCiB's) and reductive simplistic ideas of religion and international relations.
What FCiB is saying is a variation of "You're either with us or you're against us."
What if I'm a secular capitalist that despises terrorism, aknowledges the need to fight from time to time but thinks Geeeeoruj is a moron, current US foreign policy is going to kill us all and will not, can not, accept the stupidity of what's being put in front of us?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your closing statements are rather interesting. US policy is going to kill us all? Do you know how many times in history people thought that when America did anything? I think this "kill us all" business is rather loose and not an honest statement. "Stupidity of what's being put in front of us" Can you explain?
My points in the thread are that this man is taking advantage of a hate of US support for Israel. If one was to be honest they would ask the question. "What is this all about"? This support of Israel. What it is all about is that the Palestinians with support of other arab leaders do not want there to be an Israel. The fact that the US supports Israel is to ensure that it is not stamped out. The problem is that there are those in the middle east that do not believe the Jews should be in Israel. So here we have the US giving support and thus we are hated. Everything American is hated even cola. This is all rooted because America believes the Jews Secular or Religious have a right to live in Israel and we support them to defend themselves. One day people may actually be honest with this and join in this discussion with the issues that lead to where we find ourselves today.
Fellowship
<strong>One day people may actually be honest with this and join in this discussion with the issues that lead to where we find ourselves today.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why don´t you start and explain on what you base this on:
[quote]"Mr Mathlouthi says America must change its policies"
Translation = America must adapt Islamic Law.<hr></blockquote>
Have you talked to Mr. Mathlouthu?
Okay let me be honest with you: I think the reason for the boycott is that people in the middle east have seen that US has been supportive towards Israel even in situations where it has been working against all efforts for peace and a fair solution for the palestinians. We can talk about Arafat and corrupt leaders of arab countries but that doesn´t change the image of Israel as treating the palestinians wrong. And It has absolutly nothing to do with Sharia law in US.
Please say if you think your translation of Mr. Mathlouthu above this is fair or not. I´m really interested if you really think that is what he meant.
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Anders the White ]
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Anders the White ]</p>
Why so big issue? In france they have sold at least since last year that Mecca Cola. Arabs want arab ...
Sorry, didnt find a smaller pic of that. An arabic ice tea. That is sold in the middle east.
"Client: Coca-Cola Gulf
Brief: Traditional arabic bottle and label design for flavoured ice tea." <a href="http://iraszl.brinkster.net/eportfolio/Packaging/arabic_ice_tea.htm"; target="_blank">here</a>
Arabs think they buy an 'arab' product. Which is marketed by Coca cola which they don't like. Nice.
This is not the only example of the soft drinks that 'are' arab or have an arabic feeling, and that are marketed by Coca cola.
(that's supposed to be a shot from the arabic coke portal)
So, i understand why they want also arab drinks.
I prefer chinotto, which is here a local a bit similar but more bitter and less sweet drink than Coke. [sarcasm] So even I'm apparently anti-american as that's marketed by S. Pellegrino and not Coca Cola... [/sarcasm]
We're being told that this is about possible al-Qaeda / Iraq links. The only time Osama mentioned Saddam was an invective equal to anything he's said about the US. He hates Saddam as Iraq is a secular state, and is glad we're doing his dirty work in replacing him. When there's a democratic regime in Iraq it will be easier for al-Qaeda to work there at every level. Result: more terrorism.
We're told that it's about Iraqi violations of UN resolutions. Israel have broken more Iraqi resolutions then the US. For example. Not a peep. Result: perception that US policy is anti-Arab, more terrorism.
We're told it's about WOMD. The inspectors haven't found squat (watch this space). Result: same as above.
We're told it's about chemical or biological weapons. Ever seen that photo Hassan posted of Donald Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand on the day Iraq chemmed the Iranians using elements sold them by the US? Directly authorised by Rumsfeld? (THINK Fellowship!) Result: same as above.
We're told that Saddam is a threat to stability. Indeed he is. But if the idea is create greater stability, a resolution of the Intifada is more important. We think it's Saddam. Everyone in the Middle East thinks its Israel. That's more important. Result: take a wild guess.
We're told it's DEFINATELY NOT about oil when Iraq has the second biggest oil reserves in the world, we're over reliant on Saudi Arabia, Condoleeza rice has a supertanker named after her (did you know that?) and Rumseld and Bush are both ole oil boys too. What do you think that does for borderline terrorists / anti US sentiment?
Stupidity about Iraq. Lies and hypocrisy.
We're told again and again that we have to support, without thinking, the US line on Israel or we're Jew-haters. For me to point out that Sharon has blood on his hands, and that Israeli settlers are pushing people off their native lands and taking their fields means that's what I am to you. But this is just wrong. It's theft -- I thought even you saw this once.
YOU think Cola-man is "taking advantage of a hate of US support of Israel." No he's not. He's taking commercial advantage of hate of US foreign policy which is (wekkup man) more then just support of Israel. You're also missing the point that a global economic hegemony -- we all drink Coke etc. -- benefits the US and that the point about globalisation is that it replace native products / lifestyles / cultures with the North American ones. Like it or not, debate the truth of that statement all you want, the perception that this is true is creating resentment of a type and level you cannot comprehend. Especially if you never go there and your TV ignores the rest of the world. Hence use cola to make a statement (and a few bucks). More then Israel.
Remember when I called you on your support for protected US drug patents after relaxation was scuppered by Big Pharma lobbying? The difference is, I'm a long-term capitalist and you're a short-termer. I can see that a dying, poverty stricken 3rd world is a breeding ground for terrorism and forces that will kill capitalism along with the last EU / US capitalist. You just go, "Poor Big Pharma! Only HALF a squadillion dollar profits for you!"
Result to all the above: a backlash that's going to end both of our cosy little worldviews and probably sooner then we think. Certainly you. And in a magnitude you can't comprehend.
[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>
Your closing statements are rather interesting. US policy is going to kill us all? Do you know how many times in history people thought that when America did anything? I think this "kill us all" business is rather loose and not an honest statement. "Stupidity of what's being put in front of us" Can you explain?
My points in the thread are that this man is taking advantage of a hate of US support for Israel.
snip
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>
I'm a Jew
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No you?re not.
Could you please stop lying about your identity as a Jew.
<strong>
No you?re not.
Could you please stop lying about your identity as a Jew.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Been here before, haven't we?
Were this FC I would make a comment about my genitals and how much I'm sure you'd like see them in order to satisfy your curiousity. But that would take us off-topic.
Well you don't live in Israel. Please stop lying about this PC_Killa / zMench.
Easy isn't it?
<strong>
Been here before, haven't we?
Were this FC I would make a comment about my genitals and how much I'm sure you'd like see them in order to satisfy your curiousity. But that would take us off-topic.
Well you don't live in Israel. Please stop lying about this PC_Killa / zMench.
Easy isn't it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes we have been there before. And you haven?t answered as to why you consider yourself Jewish. You obviously do NOT identify with anything Jewish or Israeli. So why keep pretending to be something you?re not? Why not just call yourself a ?Palestinian? or another Arab nationalist? You obviously identify with Arabs and Muslim causes more than anything else. Go live there. Be with them.
As for your genitals, I sincerely doubt you have any. And as for me being an Israeli, I can assure you that I am.
1. good topic; let's stop talking about Harald's penis and his judaism. Better suited to PMs.
(mika, calm down.)
2. Anders is back!
3. Can Spline ever not talk about his RX-7?
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>
<strong>Well you don't live in Israel. Please stop lying about this PC_Killa / zMench.
Easy isn't it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
And how would you know where he lives? .com or .net does not mean he 100 % lives in US.