Apple: Samsung 'attempts to harass' with requests to see next-gen iPhone, iPad

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Apple has called out its key supplier and major rival, Samsung, in court, characterizing the company's requests to see Apple's next-generation iPhone and iPad as "attempts to harass" that were not made in good faith.



The latest twist in the ongoing legal battle between Apple and Samsung was unearthed Tuesday by Florian Mueller of FOSS Patents. In addition to accusing Samsung of resorting to harassment, Apple also refers to its rival as "the copyist" in the newest documents.



The latest filing by Apple was made in response to a motion filed by Samsung in late May, in which the device maker said it wanted advance copies of the "final, commercial versions" of Apple's unannounced next-generation iPhone and iPad. That motion came with a deadline of June 13, 2011, and Apple responded accordingly last Friday to deny the request.



The battle started in April, when Apple sued Samsung and accused the company of copying the look and feel of the iPhone and iPad. Apple has asserted that Samsung's products, including its Galaxy-branded smartphone and tablet products, copy the "technology, user interface and innovative style" seen in the iPhone and iPad.



A U.S. Federal Court judge in San Jose, Calif., later ordered Samsung to show prototype samples of its unreleased tablets and smartphones to Apple. The move came in response to a motion by Apple for expedited discovery, seeking early production of documents and witnesses in the case.



That prompted Samsung to respond in-kind, and ask to see Apple's next-generation products. But Apple, in its latest filing, has asserted that Samsung doesn't have a need to see the next-generation iPhone and iPad, because Apple is not accused of copying Samsung's products.



Apple also reportedly noted that the products it requested to see -- including a Samsung Galaxy S II -- have already been announced. In contrast, Apple's products are shrouded in secrecy until they are publicly announced.







Richard J. Lutton, chief patent counsel for Apple, said in one filing that "Apple is widely recognized as one of the most secretive companies in the world." He also stated that "Apple's new product announcements are major events in the technology industry," in an effort to draw a distinction between Samsung's products and Apple's.



"I agree with Apple that Samsung's requests go way beyond what Apple asked for," Mueller offered in his analysis of the latest filings. "I also have a feeling that the court is not going to grant Samsung's requests -- there doesn't seem to be sufficient cause. But at this stage let's not speculate too much."



Samsung's request for expedited discovery will be the topic in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California this Friday. On that same day, Samsung is due to deliver the five products requested by Apple for review.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 52
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Florian Mueller is an MS plant.



    While I think Samsung deserves this lawsuit, I fail to see how their request is harassment. Apple asked for their prototypes. Seems fair to me, that Samsung get the same access to potentially be able to counter-sue (whether they have a case or not) or build a defense.



    Another option could be to send all prototypes to a court-appointed expert with questions from the respective parties to answer.
  • Reply 2 of 52
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 42,841member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Apple asked for their prototypes.



    Of devices that had been announced and therefore exist in the public eye.



    Quote:

    Seems fair to me, that Samsung get the same access



    To devices that have not been announced and don't exist?
  • Reply 3 of 52
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 942member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Florian Mueller is an MS plant.



    While I think Samsung deserves this lawsuit, I fail to see how their request is harassment. Apple asked for their prototypes. Seems fair to me, that Samsung get the same access to potentially be able to counter-sue (whether they have a case or not) or build a defense.



    Another option could be to send all prototypes to a court-appointed expert with questions from the respective parties to answer.



    Apple's kit is not relevant to the suit at hand.
  • Reply 4 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Apple's kit is not relevant to the suit at hand.



    Agreed.
  • Reply 5 of 52
    iandeaniandean Posts: 23member
    I'll show you mine, if you show me yours
  • Reply 6 of 52
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 993member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Florian Mueller is an MS plant.



    While I think Samsung deserves this lawsuit, I fail to see how their request is harassment. Apple asked for their prototypes. Seems fair to me, that Samsung get the same access to potentially be able to counter-sue (whether they have a case or not) or build a defense.



    Another option could be to send all prototypes to a court-appointed expert with questions from the respective parties to answer.



    That would simply be crazy. Apple requested early prototypes of announced devices and more importantly, Samsung is not accusing Apple of copying the Galaxy-S series of products.
  • Reply 7 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    I fail to see how their request is harassment. Apple asked for their prototypes. Seems fair to me, that Samsung get the same access to potentially be able to counter-sue



    No, it doesn't work that way. If Samsung decides to sue Apple for copying their products, THEN they may get to see such evidence in the discovery process. In Apple's current suit, Samsung almost certainly has no right to such discovery (unless the court allows them to go on a fishing expedition, which seems unlikely).



    Of course, there's the irony of Samsung copying Apple's lawsuit, same way they're now copying Apple's evidentiary demands. Too bad irony in and of itself isn't proof of anything, or Apple might have made their case on that alone.
  • Reply 8 of 52
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,018member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iandean View Post


    I'll show you mine, if you show me yours



    reminds me what two 10 year olds would do behind the garage....
  • Reply 9 of 52
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    It isn't fair. Apple is suing Samsung alleging Samsung current products and already announced products are copying Apple on a variety of grounds. Apple requesting to see the pro-types of the already announced products that are not yet shipping are relevant to Apple's Motion for Summary Judgement. Apple doesn't get to see Samsung's product personally. It's outside counsel does.



    Apple's next generation products are not shipping nor were they announced. Further, Samsung is not suing Apple based on copying Samsung's look and feel. So, seeing Apple's products are not relevant to Samsung's counterclaim.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Florian Mueller is an MS plant.



    While I think Samsung deserves this lawsuit, I fail to see how their request is harassment. Apple asked for their prototypes. Seems fair to me, that Samsung get the same access to potentially be able to counter-sue (whether they have a case or not) or build a defense.



    Another option could be to send all prototypes to a court-appointed expert with questions from the respective parties to answer.



  • Reply 10 of 52
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,066member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    It isn't fair. Apple is suing Samsung alleging Samsung current products and already announced products are copying Apple on a variety of grounds. Apple requesting to see the pro-types of the already announced products that are not yet shipping are relevant to Apple's Motion for Summary Judgement. Apple doesn't get to see Samsung's product personally. It's outside counsel does.



    Apple's next generation products are not shipping nor were they announced. Further, Samsung is not suing Apple based on copying Samsung's look and feel. So, seeing Apple's products are not relevant to Samsung's counterclaim.



    Well explained. One has to assume a judge will see this the same way.



    I hope Apple soon find alternate sources for all parts they currently obtain from Samsung.
  • Reply 11 of 52
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,565member
    You see Samsung is afraid that Apple might copy the Samsung designs that Samsung copied from Apple.
  • Reply 12 of 52
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Florian Mueller is an MS plant.



    While I think Samsung deserves this lawsuit, I fail to see how their request is harassment. Apple asked for their prototypes. Seems fair to me, that Samsung get the same access to potentially be able to counter-sue (whether they have a case or not) or build a defense.



    Another option could be to send all prototypes to a court-appointed expert with questions from the respective parties to answer.



    You don't understand the law at all do you?
  • Reply 13 of 52
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    I hope Apple soon find alternate sources for all parts they currently obtain from Samsung.



    Apple will continue to deal with Samsung as a supplier because they're too important as a supplier of Flash and LCD. Samsung is a massive conglomerate, not a tightly coupled firm like Apple.
  • Reply 14 of 52
    wovelwovel Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Florian Mueller is an MS plant.



    While I think Samsung deserves this lawsuit, I fail to see how their request is harassment. Apple asked for their prototypes. Seems fair to me, that Samsung get the same access to potentially be able to counter-sue (whether they have a case or not) or build a defense.



    Another option could be to send all prototypes to a court-appointed expert with questions from the respective parties to answer.



    You can't really sue someone for making a prototype that has never been seen publicly. You also can't ask the courts to expedite your industrial espionage. Samsung's request is absurd. Every piece of hardware Apple has publicly announced is available in the Apple store...
  • Reply 15 of 52
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,159member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Florian Mueller is an MS plant.



    While I think Samsung deserves this lawsuit, I fail to see how their request is harassment.



    Because it is not relevant to the case they filed.



    Apple filed a trade dress case. That directly relates to the look of the device and the UI. They contend that Samsung has and continues to knowingly and purposefully copy the iphone etc. They requested their lawyers have access to the devices that have no yet released to prove the 'continues' part of the argument and to see if Samsung may have used any insider knowledge as a component source to copy unrevealed details of the upcoming iOS5 or iphone5 hardware.



    Samsung on the other hand filed a patent case. THey are accusing Apple of using patented tech without permission. Software tech, not hardware. All they should be asking for and allowed to see is a release or as near to release as it is copy of iOS5. Not to mention being beyond ballsy asking to see the ipad 3 (as if Apple has it all finished and sitting in a vault somewhere). Samsung is hoping that their "it's only fair" argument will get the judge to cancel the grant to Apple. But it likely won't. And even if it does, Apple will ask for a stay to continue the case when Samsung has released said products (or at least any photographic marketing on it) so they can be included in the case and the judge will likely grant that.



    Samsung is real lucky that they are at the moment Apple's only real choice for some of the iOS device parts. If and when Apple has another choice, even if they win this case, they will probably jump ship without a second thought. Rumor has it they are already moving that way with partial orders to see the quality the other guys can produce for them.
  • Reply 16 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post


    You see Samsung is afraid that Apple might copy the Samsung designs that Samsung copied from Apple.



    best post ever
  • Reply 17 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    Apple will continue to deal with Samsung as a supplier because they're too important as a supplier of Flash and LCD. Samsung is a massive conglomerate, not a tightly coupled firm like Apple.



    Apple isn't ?coupled?; it's the singular will of Steve Jobs, in material form.
  • Reply 18 of 52
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Apple isn't ?coupled?; it's the singular will of Steve Jobs, in material form.



    That is a double edged sword.



    Its both a pro and a con.



    With Steve's health deteriorating all the time, its reflected in the stock price. Steve has too much control.
  • Reply 19 of 52
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    If Apple flatly denies the existence of a iPhone 5 or an iPad 3, and then later release them, they will be accused of perjury.



    Apple sued Samsung for trade dress infringement on CURRENT products but also requesting to see potential trade dress infringement on its future products that have yet to be released in the US market.



    Samsung counter sued Apple for violating its technology patents in 10 countries for the CURRENT iPhone and iPad products but is also requesting to see potential technology patents in its future products that have yet to be released in the US market.



    Both are same types of suits.
  • Reply 20 of 52
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 42,841member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    If Apple flatly denies the existence of a iPhone 5 or an iPad 3, and then later release them, they will be accused of perjury.



    That's doubtful.



    Quote:

    future products that have yet to be released in the US market.



    That Samsung has announced. Apple hasn't announced either. They don't exist.
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