Apple releases Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5 and Compressor 4 on Mac App Store

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  • Reply 161 of 205
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CaptainVideo View Post


    I reading comment after comment about price, upgrade price, what a great deal for the price. A professional is willing to spend more money for a features rich software platform. Features should be the topic NOT price. As a Professional Editor who uses FCP7 everyday I can't believe Apple left out so many key features: Backwards compatibility with FCP6 & FCP7 project files, Duhhh, Multiclip Editing, Tape Capture and Import...these few features are deal breakers!! Apple just made a conscience decision to move away from the professional market and towards prosumer/education markets.

    Avid and Adobe are jumping for joy! Their market share is surely going to jump as Professionals migrate to Avid and Adobe. Sad day for FCP users all over the world.



    As a professional, then identify yourself. Otherwise your comments are outright FUD.



    Todays students are going to get FCPX now. They are tomorrows professionals. They cannot afford the investment to maintain the status quo.



    That doesn't mean that today's crop of so-called 'Pro's' won't be obliterated just because they stayed with their current investment.



    Why anybody would even attempt to transition an FCP6 or 7 to FCPX project is beyond me. As any real 'pro' would know, now is not the time to screw around with what is already working.



    New projects yes. Until one is fully familiar with the new offering, switching horses in midstream and betting your career on it is just plain stupid.



    And suggesting that current FCP6/7 Professionals are going to migrate to AVID and Adobe just because Apple created a new paradigm is equally stupid.



    At $300 a pop, it is a no-brainer for the up and comers. Unless, of course, your dad is expecting you to take over the business. However, even he will appreciate the value of this offering in today's environment; technologically and economically, this latest offering, even if it is shy of what has been the standard, but combined with his years of artistic, creative and technological expertise could only promote continued success.
  • Reply 162 of 205
    conrailconrail Posts: 489member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Is Larry Jordan

    Hey here's a thought - maybe there hasn't been a push to get off of tape because there wasn't a compelling paradigm to do so?



    People throw out equipment costs as why tape won't go away, well guess what. I may not be a pro editor, but I've managed enough projects to understand that the real costs are in labor. Tools - of which camera's and decks are just tools, are a minor cost in the grand scheme of things.



    If a forward thinking production company can ditch tape, convert their cameras to record to disk and slash a significant part of their workflow time - guess what - that's an edge.



    Yes, by all means, let's ditch hundreds of thousands of hours of archived material and go tapeless. If it wasn't' shot in the last six months, who the hell wants to look at it anyhow?



    Tapeless is the way to go in the future, but it's going to be a long time before producers stop needing a way to integrate traditional formats into their work. In my mind, "pro" is synonymous with "options", and I think that's what a lot of people are upset at losing. Taking out multicam and adding face recognition or share to facebook isn't just a loss of features, it's a loss of focus on the product.



    I'm mostly happy with what I've seen in FCP X so far. It handles AVCHD from my Canon 60D wonderfully, and I love love LOVE the new timeline features. But I found the project management setup to be a joke, and am upset that there are few options (there's that word again) for where FCP will now place various files. Menus that used to be full of customization now look like something out of iMovie. I'm definitely more of a prosumer than a professional user, so I can adapt somewhat easier, but I certainly understand the pain of people who fear this is going to become another iApp.
  • Reply 163 of 205
    Reading these posts it seems like there is a disconnect with Apple fans and what editing professionals are trying to say.



    For months there has been a huge anticipation buzz surrounding FCPX. I am one of the main Moderators and contributors over at Cinema5D.com. Professional editors and filmmakers have been talking about this release constantly. Then it arrived yesterday. To say the response from the professional community is NEGATIVE is putting it mildly. This is like a punch to the stomach.



    Many of the pro level features are missing. Backwards compatibility with previous projects is missing. Mutli camera ability is missing. Being able to Save As is missing. The list is HUGE. The massive deal breaker for professional edit houses is how clunky FCPX is for multi station arenas. This is really iMovie Pro for single users. The other fact is that all of the existing pro titles have been discontinued. Apple really seems to have made it clear: they are getting out of the Pro applications business. Unless Apple fixes this mess in a hurry you will find a ton of pros will go to Adobe, Avid and alternative platforms.



    Applications like FCP is why many media professionals invest in large expensive desktop systems like the Mac Pro. Professionals are concerned about this as well. If Apple kills the pro applications will the pro hardware be next? Walk into any Apple Store and odds are you will never even see Mac Pros on display. Its now all about the iCandy stuff now. Remember back in the darkest days for Apple it was the media and design professionals who really stayed with Apple and kept them afloat.



    Make no mistake about: this move by Apple has shaken the professional community who invest in pro level Apple software and hardware. There are a lot of pro oriented forums filled with Apple fans and users who could not wait for this FCPX release. They now feel duped and shocked. Apple needs to address this as soon as possible. Waiting years is not an option as users were waiting for a major upgrade to the FCP suite already. Steve Jobs and Apple promised FCPX would be the next big thing. Its not! What comes next? The folks who spend the money on this stuff have been waiting for this release. Now that it is here many will be evaluating if it makes sense to go with Adobe, Avid, etc. There will be hardware choices as well.



    In short Apple has alienated like 90% of editing and film making professionals in one day. This is a watershed moment, but of the really ominous kind. Hopefully Apple will pay attention and correct this direction...
  • Reply 164 of 205
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    iMovie '08 was a total redesign, and I think the same guy that did that then moved to the FCP team. He was on stage at WWDC, had really short hair.



    Yeah, that guy is Randy Ubillos -- the guy who wrote FCP when it belonged to MacroMedia -- later sold to Apple and been with it ever since.



    Final Cut Pro





    I do believe he has more video editing chops than most posters to this forum, myself included.
  • Reply 165 of 205
    Thought of another major bonus.



    Reinstalled FCS at work today on a new computer. Took several hours.



    Am at home now and downloaded FCPX. It took all of 7 minutes, and I didn't have to fiddle with seven discs.



    (For the whole set I figure at 15 minutes.)



    Yep. Downloaded and up and running all three apps in 15 minutes.
  • Reply 166 of 205
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Well its certainly not the first time. Can we count the list of things Apple has done where people swore they were crazy and have doomed themselves to failure.



    Shaking things up and pissing people off is exactly how Apple has gotten itself to where it is today.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maxseattle View Post


    In short Apple has alienated like 90% of editing and film making professionals in one day. This is a watershed moment, but of the really ominous kind. Hopefully Apple will pay attention and correct this direction...



  • Reply 167 of 205
    cpr1cpr1 Posts: 41member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Very funny, I'm sure. But you've obviously got no knowledge of FCPs beginnings.



    Been on it from the beginning.
  • Reply 168 of 205
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Can we hold on to this for future reference?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samwell View Post


    With all due respect, since you're one of the few on this site whose head isn't firmly lodged up Jobs' ass, FCPX will never be phased into production environments. Pro users (within a production environment) will be running back to Avid very quickly.



    Regardless of what features are added in subsequent updates, there is no more trust in Apple to deliver pro-quality software.



  • Reply 169 of 205
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,792member
    Here's one way to view this situation: Steve Jobs didn't sneak into anyone's facility last night and remove their FCP 6 or 7 installs. You can still do exactly what you have been doing with absolutely no change. You can also buy and install FCP X and start trying it out. This way you get both worlds and can wait to see how FCP X shakes out.



    Personally I agree with those who say Apple is moving away from the hard core edit, color, finish world and is embracing the lower quality web/interactive market. That is okay. Those of us who need the missing features can wait to see if they arrive later or we can move to another brand of software.



    Everyone relax and have another cocktail.
  • Reply 170 of 205
    tfgtfg Posts: 8member
    Both Adobe and AVID offer fully functional 30 day trials.
  • Reply 171 of 205
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Once again Apple looks to have taken 3 steps forward and 3 and a half back. It's a very limited niche now, unless they make some changes. iMovie users might want to move up but many don't have to (I still fire up my old G4 for an old version of iMovie instead of the current one, but that's another story). A pro user isn't put off by a $1,300 price tag if it does the job and neither are they enticed by a $300 price if it doesn't.



    I just can't see Apple shoring up their dwindling pro editing presence with this release. There are lots of hobbyists who can plunk down $300, and that's who they've targeted.



    One of the biggest problems they face is that AVID, while they seem to be holding pretty steady from what I see in editing suites and also as the audio standard, having Digidesign so omnipresent in audio studios, they've screwed up their new mid range audio offerings pretty badly. Lots of bugs, hardware issues and lack of support except for their user forums. Apple can't sell FCPX to users who were on the fence but decided to get a Windows computer and Cakewalk/Sonar because of that, and those are exactly who Apple needs.



    I think AVID is turning this huge mid range portion of potential Mac buyers away from committing to it as a platform, and they were exactly where the features/price of this landed. If I were big into conspiracy theories... : )
  • Reply 172 of 205
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Ya' know...



    I am not a "pro" editor -- and never will be!



    So you "pros" feel free to ignore the words of one who has less training, experience and qualification than you.





    But, I do want to tell "stories": using words, pictures, audio, video and effects -- whatever is available.





    My first attempt at doing this was some years ago with an early version of QuickTime and SMIL -- anyone remember that? Anyway, with QuickTime/SMIL I was able to put together "stories" with a series of pictures, sounds and effects.



    Later, iMovie came on the scene and I had another tool to help me tell "stories" even better.



    But, I still used QuickTime -- and even a little SMIL, now and then.



    Over the years, I acquired newer, more powerful, versions of iMovie as well as ever more capable computers, cameras and audio equipment.



    At some point, I wanted to include things in my "stories" that were beyond the capabilities of iMovie, QuickTime and other tools I had acquired. I looked longingly at Final Cut (Pro) but couldn't justify the cost.



    Then FC Express was released and I bought this inexpensive new tool to help me tell "stories" even better.



    Later, Apple offered a cross-grade to full FCP that I couldn't resist.



    I have been an FCS user ever since (and yes, it is a bitch to install on an new computer).



    I have invested more money in FCP training and plugins than in the FCP product suite itself. These include things such:

    -- Silhouette Rotoscoping

    -- Karaoke - synched titling - follow the bouncing ball



    I really got into Motion to create "stories" with [animation of] still images, sounds and effects -- basically the 2011 edition of my decades old QuickTime/SMIL effort.





    Yesterday I bought FCPX and the Motion [upgrade].





    I still use QuickTime!



    I still use iMovie!



    I still use Final Cut Studio!



    I still use PhotoShop, Pages (yes, Pages) for some things I can't do with the other tools.





    I suspect that I will gradually replace most of my FCS and iMovie work with FCPX -- especialy as the FCPX product matures.





    So why am I writing about this?



    1) My goal is to tell "stories" with AV!



    2) Over the years I've acquired various "tools" that help me attain that goal!



    3) FCPX is just another tool in my tool-bag.





    Shouldn't FCPX be viewed as just another tool in the "storyteller's" tool-bag -- be he amateur or pro?
  • Reply 173 of 205
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post


    Here's one way to view this situation: Steve Jobs didn't sneak into anyone's facility last night and remove their FCP 6 or 7 installs. You can still do exactly what you have been doing with absolutely no change. You can also buy and install FCP X and start trying it out. This way you get both worlds and can wait to see how FCP X shakes out.



    Personally I agree with those who say Apple is moving away from the hard core edit, color, finish world and is embracing the lower quality web/interactive market. That is okay. Those of us who need the missing features can wait to see if they arrive later or we can move to another brand of software.



    Everyone relax and have another cocktail.



    +++ QFT



    Where do you live? Cocktail? It's 11 AM here
  • Reply 174 of 205
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Can you link to any supporting evidence that their pro editing presence is dwindling?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    I just can't see Apple shoring up their dwindling pro editing presence with this release. There are lots of hobbyists who can plunk down $300, and that's who they've targeted.



  • Reply 175 of 205
    aiwaz418aiwaz418 Posts: 21member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Can you link to any supporting evidence that their pro editing presence is dwindling?



    No, he can't since the opposite is true - FCP has been growing in pro usage over the last few years as pretty much everyone knows and has been touted on so many high profile television and feature film productions.



    Well, perhaps until the release of this monstrosity...
  • Reply 176 of 205
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,792member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    +++ QFT



    Where do you live? Cocktail? It's 11 AM here



    I am starting a personal campaign to bring back the three Martini lunch. I'm in Austin so the clock says drink.
  • Reply 177 of 205
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    What if in the long term FCP becomes more popular than ever because Apple took the risk of totally reinventing how an NLE works? What if Apple actually has a grand vision that we do not yet know about?



    This is the way Apple has garnered such success in other parts of the electronics industry. They were willing to take a risk in doing things differently from how everyone else is doing it. That risk turned out to be the right direction and many people are willing to get on board.



    The transition at times can be a little painful and confusing because Apple never fully reveals what its long term plans are. Some people jump on board immediately - others cautiously wait to see where things are headed.



    Thus far Apple has had a stellar track record with this way of creating its products.



    In the end its competitors scramble to recreate the direction that Apple has gone within various ways.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aiwaz418 View Post


    No, he can't since the opposite is true - FCP has been growing in pro usage over the last few years as pretty much everyone knows and has been touted on so many high profile television and feature film productions.



    Well, perhaps until the release of this monstrosity...



  • Reply 178 of 205
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,792member
    BTW wasn't there talk last year about some big upheaval within the FCP team at Apple? Something about they bit off more than they could chew and had to scale back, some people were fired etc, etc. Seems like this release could be a manifestation of that turmoil. They just couldn't get it all done and decided to release what was ready. They got the cutting and metadata parts in there, but everything else just isn't done yet.



    Just a thought.
  • Reply 179 of 205
    aiwaz418aiwaz418 Posts: 21member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    What if in the long term FCP becomes more popular than ever because Apple took the risk of totally reinventing how an NLE works? What if Apple actually has a grand vision that we do not yet know about?



    This is the way Apple has garnered such success in other parts of the electronics industry. They were willing to take a risk in doing things differently from how everyone else is doing it. That risk turned out to be the right direction and many people are willing to get on board.



    The transition at times can be a little painful and confusing because Apple never fully reveals what its long term plans are. Some people jump on board immediately - others cautiously wait to see where things are headed.



    Thus far Apple has had a stellar track record with this way of creating its products.



    In the end its competitors scramble to recreate the direction that Apple has gone within various ways.



    Apple does not dictate how films are made and completed. They have failed to meet industry standards with this release. While FCP is a wonderful piece of software, it certainly didn't alter the way post was done for film (regardless of what some may think) since they were relatively late to the NLE game.
  • Reply 180 of 205
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I'm not sure where you felt I was saying that Apple dictates how films are completed.



    Do you not believe its possible to introduce a radically different tools that works better than the previous tools that people are used to?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aiwaz418 View Post


    Apple does not dictate how films are made and completed. They have failed to meet industry standards with this release. While FCP is a wonderful piece of software, it certainly didn't alter the way post was done for film (regardless of what some may think) since they were relatively late to the NLE game.



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