France is very clear
It is now known France is clear with their stand on Iraq. It is also clear to me France has taken a path to Iraqi compliance that was hard for me to understand at first. I thought France was unclear as to the level of support within the context of the UN. At this point I find the path France has chosen a very worthy one. France has given peace a chance in a very public way however in the event Saddam will continue to defy the world community France has made itself clear.
[quote]<strong> French government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope told French Europe No. 1 radio that Iraq must comply with the U.N. demands.
?We can only say how much it is essential for Iraq to comply with these demands, because ? I think people have to understand this ? otherwise people would make a real mistake with regard to the interpretation of the French position,? Cope said.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Your thoughts..
<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/842500.asp?0cv=CA00"; target="_blank">Link MSNBC</a>
May the world comply to a goal of peace.
Fellowship
[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
[quote]<strong> French government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope told French Europe No. 1 radio that Iraq must comply with the U.N. demands.
?We can only say how much it is essential for Iraq to comply with these demands, because ? I think people have to understand this ? otherwise people would make a real mistake with regard to the interpretation of the French position,? Cope said.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Your thoughts..
<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/842500.asp?0cv=CA00"; target="_blank">Link MSNBC</a>
May the world comply to a goal of peace.
Fellowship
[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
Comments
They say there is progress.
- Iraq is merely contemplating following orders.
- Iraq is refusing to let scientists out of Iraq for interviews.
- They have actively produced weapons they knew were proscribed.
As clear as a glass of mud.
[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: serrano ]</p>
<strong> France's position has always been clear, publically denounce everything the US does just because and then fall in line when push comes to shove.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
"when push comes to shove" here means "when they need the U.S. to bail them out because their ass is in a crack" or "when they need the U.S. to do their dirty work because they have no political will in their populace."
<strong>Anyone who believes that France will veto doesn't understand the world. It doesn't matter what they tell the public. If you can understand this then you're a good way towards understanding global politics. France's position has always been clear, publically denounce everything the US does just because and then fall in line when push comes to shove.
[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: serrano ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
So global politics is to lie to your public and do the opposite of what you say? I'm not sure I want to understand if this is true.
I've been saying it all along. There will be war in Iraq and it will be a UN deal.
US Yes
UK Yes
Spain Yes
Bulgaria Yes
Guinea Yes
Cameroon Yes
Chile Yes
Angola Yes
Pakistan Yes
Mexico Abstain
China Abstain
France Abstain
Russia Abstain
Germany No
Syria No
France will fold and spin. China is pretty certain to abstain. Pakistan will be tricky but Musharraf has already more or less picked his side anyway. Might as well go all in. I think Fox holds out for other reasons but it wouldnt be a surprise if they went along. Russia is a bit harder to read but I htink in the end they will abstain as well.
Russia and Pakistan are the tricky ones. If they get stop a Russian veto and get Pakistan onboard then they get to 9-2 or so with no veto.
Schroeder will then be dead, abandoned by France, at odds with the US/UK/Italy/Spain/E+C Europe, unintentionally aligned with Syria and Saddam and with their economy morbid as well.
France will get a nice slice of that Iraqi pie, and the US will get their oil.
OMFG NEW WARZ!!!!!!!!1111 W000t!!
The US wants its war, and it'll get it. It still hasn't produced any reliable intelligence pertaining to the issues at hand. In fact, Powell has lost a lot of respect on the International Scene by making a clown of himself with his so-called evidence.
Bush has the arrogance to question the relevance of the UN. He's just playing the schoolyard bully, hitting on the weak, and forgetting the real threats. Al Quaeda is still strong and active, NKorea has ridiculed the US, so diverting attention is vital for the administration.
Arrogance will spell the downfall of the US on the international scene. Bush is singlehandedly alienating every country, aside from the UK. Focus is on the easy and harmless baddies, forgetting the real threats.
If this war is not UN backed, then it has absolutely no legitimacy. People have to get their heads out of the sand, and look around a bit. The US is not the center of the world.
Do you want tangible evidence of violations?
100+ al-Samoud 2 missiles that Saddam refuses to destroy.
Can't get more tangible than Blix ordering them to be destroyed and Iraq saying no, can you?
Or is he a war-monger now as well?
<strong>It's kind of discouraging the way France sees the United States. After all, if it weren't for our fathers and grandfathers, everyone in France would be speaking German. <hr></blockquote></strong>
They may not be speaking German now, but supposedly there are a whole lot of them speaking Muslim... Maybe they have already been invaded and didn't even realize it?
[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: Randycat99 ]</p>
They're doing two things that are definitely good:
1) They're pandering to their anti-US populations.
2) They're protecting their oil ties to Saddam.
If anyone tries to tell me that they just want to protect the Iraqi people from the horrors of war I will vomit on their shoes. NONE OF THE INVOLVED NATIONS ACTUALLY GIVE A RAT'S ASS ABOUT THE IRAQI PEOPLE.
I'm fluent in Christian, myself, and my Hindu ain't too bad either.
<strong>#18:
US Yes
UK Yes
Spain Yes
Bulgaria Yes
Guinea Yes
Cameroon Yes
Chile Yes
Angola Yes
Pakistan Yes
Mexico Abstain
China Abstain
France Abstain
Russia Abstain
Germany No
Syria No
</strong><hr></blockquote>Hmmm, before the last Security Council meeting I would have agreed with this, but at this point I see Spain and maybe Bulgaria siding with the US and Britain, and basically all the other countries opposed. I'm not sure if they'll all vote no on this recent, vaguely war-promoting resolution, but it's clear that this new resolution is going to be THE war resolution, and so I'm not at all convinced all those countries you've listed will vote for it for that reason.
[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: filmmaker2002 ]</p>
<strong>Sure they're doing good.
They're doing two things that are definitely good:
1) They're pandering to their anti-US populations.
2) They're protecting their oil ties to Saddam.
...</strong><hr></blockquote>
More Propaganda, please learn the facts.
The US buys almost 50% of the IRAQI oil.
The French buy less than 10% of the IRAQI oil.
Source: CIA The World Factbook 2002 & Department of State, Background Note: Iraq 12/01
France is protecting very little from their current anti-war stance. The US on the other hand has a lot to gain by invading IRAQ and overthrowing Saddams evil dictatorship.
<strong>Speaking Muslim? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
I'm fluent in Christian, myself, and my Hindu ain't too bad either.
This one's from the <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59326-2003Feb11.html"; target="_blank">Washington Post</a>:
[quote]... (House Majority Leader Tom) DeLay is trying a more personal approach. "I was at a celebration of India's Independence Day," he told reporters, "and a Frenchman came walking up to me and started talking to me about Iraq, and it was obvious we were not going to agree. And I said, 'Wait a minute. Do you speak German?' And he looked at me kind of funny and said, 'No, I don't speak German.' And I said, 'You're welcome,' turned around and walked off."<hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: spaceman_spiff ]</p>
[quote]More Propaganda, please learn the facts.
The US buys almost 50% of the IRAQI oil.
The French buy less than 10% of the IRAQI oil.
Source: CIA The World Factbook 2002 & Department of State, Background Note: Iraq 12/01
France is protecting very little from their current anti-war stance. The US on the other hand has a lot to gain by invading IRAQ and overthrowing Saddams evil dictatorship.<hr></blockquote>
Does any of that disprove that TotalFinaElf has a multi-billion dollar contract to develop oil-rich areas provided the sanctions are lifted and Saddam remains in power?
This isn't a zero-sum game. Both France and the U.S. can have oil interests.
The US buys almost 50% of the IRAQI oil.
The French buy less than 10% of the IRAQI oil.
Source: CIA The World Factbook 2002 & Department of State, Background Note: Iraq 12/01<hr></blockquote>
Even assuming your facts to be correct you miss the point entirely. The real money is not in the pittance that is being sold now but in the oil in the ground. France has dibs on much of it and they lose that if a Baath regime is not in place anymore and if they don't sellout. So they need to either insure a continuation of Saddam and friends, which they cannot do because of the US position of waxing Saddam regardless or they need to sellout.