French Magistrate Louis Joinet Speaks Out

fellowship

Here is a man I can respect. French magistrate Louis Joinet speaks out on the "justice" system in Iran. In Iran if you say the wrong thing you can be put to death, put in prison, and other such injustice. I am thankful for leaders who can speak out on things that are truly wrong. I know some in this world say "it is not the business of people of other countries to dictate how a justice system works in another country". I have heard this over and over from people who view themselves as intellectuals. I strongly disagree with such nonsense. Call me a cowboy I don't care. Injustice is injustice and it knows no boarders. So.... How then does the world respond to such an issue of injustice? Who determines what is Right and Wrong? This is an age old problem we should address. I believe that freedom of speech is someting that should extend to all humanity. This is a start to a meaningful life of expression by all people. Justice must be a goal the world actively works to provide to ALL people. It is not an American thing, not a French thing, it is a human right for all.



I hope the old ways will pass in Iran and a new liberation of speech and ideas can grow out of a new day of justice.



I thank Louis Joinet for his bold disclosure.





<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2802339.stm"; target="_blank">BBC Link</a>



Your thoughts?



Fellowship



[ 02-27-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>

powerdoc

One point of his quote was interesting : there is no lawyer culture.

I think that the world culture is important. The same applies for democratia : democratia is not only a political system, it's a culture.

fellowship

[quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:

<strong>One point of his quote was interesting : there is no lawyer culture.

I think that the world culture is important. The same applies for democratia : democratia is not only a political system, it's a culture.</strong><hr></blockquote>



Yes indeed, to be able to hire a defense lawyer you must be granted that freedom by the government. If the government is of a sort that restricts this right it does become obvious that the style of government can indeed govern the "culture" as directed by those in control.



Fellowship

ghost_user_name

I know this hasn´t much to do with Iran but here goes:



[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:

<strong>



Yes indeed, to be able to hire a defense lawyer you must be granted that freedom by the government. If the government is of a sort that restricts this right it does become obvious that the style of government can indeed govern the "culture" as directed by those in control.



Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>



The word "hire" indicated a restriction in its own. What if I am not able to hire a defence? The government must do more than passively give you the right to a defence. It must also give you a qualified defence if you are not able to do this yourself. Sometimes that lacks greatly in western courts.



Rights are not something that is only passively given. The same applies to many other areas: Medical, educational etc.



How is "All men are created equal" to be intrepriated? As a passive acknowledgement (the state is to do nothing to create differencies between people) or as an active (Since its obvious that they are not created equal in regards of life chances)

colanderofdeath

[quote]I know some in this world say "it is not the business of people of other countries to dictate how a justice system works in another country". I have heard this over and over from people who view themselves as intellectuals.<hr></blockquote>



I wonder how this view might impact whatever stance you have on the ICC.

harald

Iran is a country much misunderstood ... of all the countries in the area it's the one with the most hope for the sort of system we would like to see in the world.



There's an enormous grass-roots movement of progressive thought and a secular view of the role of government. There's even a genuine democratic system, although tempered by the Mullahs in ways that cause the serious, sometimes outrageous, problems FCiB describes. Kids go to parties, get pissed ... there are even underground bars that get raided from time to time but are often tolerated. And then there's also the banning of newspapers, the odd death sentence -- since revoked -- for teaching the wrong thing.



Don't forget the help they gave 'us' re. intelligence about Afghanistan ... the government there wants rapprochement with the West.



This is a country on the edge of "doing it," moving forward and becoming fairer. This is a country with problems but chaning, and it's miles ahead of Saudi Arabia or Kuwait for example.



Funny that it's part of that truly moronic "Axis of Evil" and Saudi Arabia isn't, despite the fact that Saudi actually does harbour terrorists and Iran doesn't really and might sort itself out sooner or later.



Why could that be?

hassan i sabbah

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:

<strong>



Why could that be?</strong><hr></blockquote>



I think I know.

matsu

Saddam needs to be dealt with but he is a different problem from Al Queda and Iran and again Saudi Arabia. I would argue the the Saudi's are the biggest single problem in the east, followed by pockets and perhaps a critical mass in areas of Pakistan and Egypt, in Yemen, and Sudan surely. Iraq and Iran, didn't we end up backing the wrong guy? The Bush admin has inherited a mess and managed to make it worse by, oddly enough, squandering the opportunity for war.



This is and isn't besides the point, iGuess. Iran has big problems but it seems to be trying.



[ 02-27-2003: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>

outsider

Matsu, we didn't back the wrong guy. In fact we backed them both (Iran & Iraq) in the end to hedge our bets! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />