I don't know about looking for justification, but it does seem the "need" for a big SUV here is more about not wanting to appear to have the life that a minivan infers. This is how a lot of SUV's get sold to soccer moms, etc. People seem to think that they say "I am a bold adventurer who is going to run off to the Rubicon at a moments notice" when, for the most part they say "I don't want to admit my youth is gone and I have responsibilities". But like I said, I hate SUV's- and I don't mean that as an attack on you personally, SDW2001.
That is excepting people who actually use them for what they were intended.
First of all, Trumptman's logic is terribly, terribly sound...if un-sexy. He'll be able to treat himself to a nifty car one day if his thriftiness hasn't become so rampant that he's eating dry catfood for lunch because it's just as healthy and cheaper to boot. He's building toward his future.
Having said that, I'm super close to making my ten year old (flooded) car my work vehicle and buying a new car. I'll buy new and drive it until the tires fall of it.
In regards to a good vehicle to consider in the class you've mentioned?
One with an equally good price?
Look at the Kia Sorento sport ute. General Motors owns a big chunk of that company and the price on this litle guy is SUPER spiffy. Lots of good reviews. I saw it at the Auto Show and a friend of mine who's looking to replace his Ford Explorer was drawn to the Sorento like a moth to a flame. He went all the way around the inside and outside of the models on display. I wasn't impressed by the gas mileage, but then none of the SUV's impresses me there. That's why I'm going with a car for my next vehicle.
trumptman, don't get caught in that 36K trap! You need a nice used car about 5-10 years old. And don't let anyone tell you any different on the 100k mile thing, most engines are good through 150K-180K WITH REGULAR SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE. In some cases even 200k.
I just bought a '95 Voyager SE for $6800 last year. Sold my old Honda Civic for $3000 and was out the balance of $3800. No payments---just cut the guy a check and you are done.
As for the engine, even if does blow, go get one that's from a reputable junkyard (the last one I bought for a Ford festiva was $300) and, get a couple of friends and slap it in over a weekend. No sweat---even if you have to pay the corner garage to do it for you, you are still only looking at $500-$800 to have it put in.
Same with a tranny. And it's WAY cheaper than a car payment.
trumptman, don't get caught in that 36K trap! You need a nice used car about 5-10 years old. And don't let anyone tell you any different on the 100k mile thing, most engines are good through 150K-180K WITH REGULAR SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE. In some cases even 200k.
I just bought a '95 Voyager SE for $6800 last year. Sold my old Honda Civic for $3000 and was out the balance of $3800. No payments---just cut the guy a check and you are done.
As for the engine, even if does blow, go get one that's from a reputable junkyard (the last one I bought for a Ford festiva was $300) and, get a couple of friends and slap it in over a weekend. No sweat---even if you have to pay the corner garage to do it for you, you are still only looking at $500-$800 to have it put in.
Same with a tranny. And it's WAY cheaper than a car payment.
I think you have me confused. I am the king of used car advocacy around here.
Check out the Honda Element. Really. I know it looks foolish. Its ugly.
Were getting one though!
Lets see what we fit in it, Three adults, one big bike, one 70 pound doggy. Very comfortable indeed.
Its really quite, gets decent mileage, it has an ausome sound system, and a place to plug in your iPod.(hell yeah)
Its advertised to 'sporty' people, but its really, nice even if you dont camp out in it, and have a need for waterproof seats, that can fold up against the wall or be taken entirely out
Way better than a Ford Explorer, ick
Why did you want one? guess i hate all fords anyway.
I thought I hated all SUV's till I saw the Honda Element. 1 week till our green element arives! crist. . .i've been bought by this car
trumptman, don't get caught in that 36K trap! You need a nice used car about 5-10 years old. And don't let anyone tell you any different on the 100k mile thing, most engines are good through 150K-180K WITH REGULAR SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE. In some cases even 200k.
I just bought a '95 Voyager SE for $6800 last year. Sold my old Honda Civic for $3000 and was out the balance of $3800. No payments---just cut the guy a check and you are done.
As for the engine, even if does blow, go get one that's from a reputable junkyard (the last one I bought for a Ford festiva was $300) and, get a couple of friends and slap it in over a weekend. No sweat---even if you have to pay the corner garage to do it for you, you are still only looking at $500-$800 to have it put in.
Same with a tranny. And it's WAY cheaper than a car payment.
Actually, it is not. You spent almost 7,000 on 95 voyager? You got screwed.
Buying a 5-10 year old car is insane. Scott is right.
Check out the Honda Element. Really. I know it looks foolish. Its ugly.
Were getting one though!
Lets see what we fit in it, Three adults, one big bike, one 70 pound doggy. Very comfortable indeed.
Its really quite, gets decent mileage, it has an ausome sound system, and a place to plug in your iPod.(hell yeah)
Its advertised to 'sporty' people, but its really, nice even if you dont camp out in it, and have a need for waterproof seats, that can fold up against the wall or be taken entirely out
Way better than a Ford Explorer, ick
Why did you want one? guess i hate all fords anyway.
I thought I hated all SUV's till I saw the Honda Element. 1 week till our green element arives! crist. . .i've been bought by this car
That Honda is gross. The reviews are mixed at best. It looks like a mutant postal truck.
I also can't believe you are killing the planet and supporting terrorists so you can take your dog somewhere with you. That Element will get about 22 mpg. You could have gotten a manuel transmission Civic and gotten up to 44 mpg with thoughtful driving.
she basically got the car for just the cost of the financing a new one.
I know there are a lot of financing incentives right now but many of them still have gotchas and catches. Only available on select models, for 36 months, have credit score above 700 etc.
Also even that estimate doesn't consider that a lot of states have sales taxes. California is 8% and that does add up.
Even if you consider her deal not the greatest it still cuts the monthly costs by $240 a month for the next 5 years and that is assuming over $2000 a year for repairs. That is over $14400 of real savings using conservative numbers.
Of course if you buy the vehicle for $3300 like I did, there could be even more.
That Honda is gross. The reviews are mixed at best. It looks like a mutant postal truck.
I also can't believe you are killing the planet and supporting terrorists so you can take your dog somewhere with you. That Element will get about 22 mpg. You could have gotten a manuel transmission Civic and gotten up to 44 mpg with thoughtful driving.
Nick
I'm sorry I am killing the planet. We WERE gonna get a hybrid, really, like a prius or a honda civic hybrid. In a way that would be cool. but. . . the element is so big. . .
I bike myself everywhere though, so i'm saving the planet, and not getting to enjoy the new car.
she basically got the car for just the cost of the financing a new one.
I know there are a lot of financing incentives right now but many of them still have gotchas and catches. Only available on select models, for 36 months, have credit score above 700 etc.
Also even that estimate doesn't consider that a lot of states have sales taxes. California is 8% and that does add up.
Even if you consider her deal not the greatest it still cuts the monthly costs by $240 a month for the next 5 years and that is assuming over $2000 a year for repairs. That is over $14400 of real savings using conservative numbers.
Of course if you buy the vehicle for $3300 like I did, there could be even more.
Nick
I agree.
Oh, by the way, Ena is a he, not a she.
Trust me. I know.
Let's just say we are on a first name basis.
And we paid cash for the minivan, so there were no finance charges to consider--throw that in the "a penny saved is a penny earned" column. And it was in incredible condition. The lady we bought it from had only grown (out of the house) children, and kept it in the garage, so it looked almost new. And it was the Kelly Blue Book value. So I guess as long as we didn't feel ... taken advantage of, so much the better.
The cost was $240 a month...and you're driving a 5-10 year old car for that money. Plus, you had to come up with $7k in cash. That's money you could be putting to work for you. For a little more, you can have a brand new car with a warranty. And, are you considering the money that you have to save for the next one? See, you're still making payments...and driving an old car on top of it.
Now, SUVs: They are not as bad as they have been made out to be. many get nearly the same mileage as a minivan.
One more thing: The honda element looks like a turd with wheels.
The cost was $240 a month...and you're driving a 5-10 year old car for that money. Plus, you had to come up with $7k in cash. That's money you could be putting to work for you. For a little more, you can have a brand new car with a warranty. And, are you considering the money that you have to save for the next one? See, you're still making payments...and driving an old car on top of it.
Now, SUVs: They are not as bad as they have been made out to be. many get nearly the same mileage as a minivan.
One more thing: The honda element looks like a turd with wheels.
hmmmmmmm.....but after selling the Civic I only had to come up with the $3800. I can't complain about that....but yes, I do have to save up for the next car but, with inflation, that cost will still be roughly the same as the $3800 I put towards the Voyager---less than a month's wages every 4-5 years (plus upkeep.)
SDW, you need to consider a station wagon. And do it seriously!!!
The Volvo XC 70 is a beautiful wagon that is higher off the ground compared to a normal car to give it a more SUV like stance and I believe (but don't quote me on this) that you can get the T5 engine in it, which is a superb and powerful engine.
My parents used to lease a Volvo V70 T5, and that was a beautiful car. They were thinking about buying it once the lease ran out, but instead they got the Saab 9-5 wagon.
The Saab 9-5 wagon is equally nice. Comes with a V-6 and its very fast. My mom drives the Saab 9-5 wagon still (2000 model), and although she doesn't have little kids to drive anymore (I'm 20 and the youngest), she does haul two big dogs around, and its perfect. The fact that it is lower to the ground makes it easier for her to get the dogs in and out of it. Not to mention that the Saab wagon has a very fast engine and EXCELLENT cornering (I love making u-turns in that car). I used it this past weekend to haul 50 bags of stone to put under her deck.
The Passat wagons are nice too, but I think the Volvos and Saabs are bigger. Definitely consider station wagons. They are actually pretty cool.
The cost was $240 a month...and you're driving a 5-10 year old car for that money. Plus, you had to come up with $7k in cash. That's money you could be putting to work for you. For a little more, you can have a brand new car with a warranty. And, are you considering the money that you have to save for the next one? See, you're still making payments...and driving an old car on top of it.
Now, SUVs: They are not as bad as they have been made out to be. many get nearly the same mileage as a minivan.
One more thing: The honda element looks like a turd with wheels.
If you looked at the link for the true cost of ownership, you would know that most of that $240 a month would be spent regardless of which vehicle you owned.
It was throwing in every repair, tires, gas, insurance, etc.
You need these items regardless of what vehicle you purchase.
I also figured in a total of $10,000 for repairs in only 5 years.
Especially for repairs, if the vehicle is the type that holds up well you are talking thousands of dollars more in difference from the initial difference which was already huge.
If the repairs are the typical ones, water pumps, alternators, etc. They will be well below 10k.
As for $7,000 working for you, that just isn't true. They sold their old car and tossed in another $3800. Most people would trade in their old car and have to throw in some cash down as well to get a decent deal or payment. The most you could consider not "working for you" is the difference between whatever you would have laid down at what they laid down.
As for things working for you, if I had to look at your finances, credit score, etc. The fully paid for used car would be listed as an asset, even though it is depreciating. The new car with its associated payment would be listed as a liability and affect your debt ratios with regard to interest rates charged on loans like houses. Debt ratios with regard to monthly income and payments also change your credit score.
When you consider a minimum of $14k more in pocket plus the affect with regard to credit score, etc. I would drive a used car any day of the week.
Comments
That is excepting people who actually use them for what they were intended.
Originally posted by BRussell
I noticed in the TV guide that there's a Law & Order all about SUV's now.
Having said that, I'm super close to making my ten year old (flooded) car my work vehicle and buying a new car. I'll buy new and drive it until the tires fall of it.
In regards to a good vehicle to consider in the class you've mentioned?
One with an equally good price?
Look at the Kia Sorento sport ute. General Motors owns a big chunk of that company and the price on this litle guy is SUPER spiffy. Lots of good reviews. I saw it at the Auto Show and a friend of mine who's looking to replace his Ford Explorer was drawn to the Sorento like a moth to a flame. He went all the way around the inside and outside of the models on display. I wasn't impressed by the gas mileage, but then none of the SUV's impresses me there. That's why I'm going with a car for my next vehicle.
I just bought a '95 Voyager SE for $6800 last year. Sold my old Honda Civic for $3000 and was out the balance of $3800. No payments---just cut the guy a check and you are done.
As for the engine, even if does blow, go get one that's from a reputable junkyard (the last one I bought for a Ford festiva was $300) and, get a couple of friends and slap it in over a weekend. No sweat---even if you have to pay the corner garage to do it for you, you are still only looking at $500-$800 to have it put in.
Same with a tranny. And it's WAY cheaper than a car payment.
Originally posted by ena
trumptman, don't get caught in that 36K trap! You need a nice used car about 5-10 years old. And don't let anyone tell you any different on the 100k mile thing, most engines are good through 150K-180K WITH REGULAR SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE. In some cases even 200k.
I just bought a '95 Voyager SE for $6800 last year. Sold my old Honda Civic for $3000 and was out the balance of $3800. No payments---just cut the guy a check and you are done.
As for the engine, even if does blow, go get one that's from a reputable junkyard (the last one I bought for a Ford festiva was $300) and, get a couple of friends and slap it in over a weekend. No sweat---even if you have to pay the corner garage to do it for you, you are still only looking at $500-$800 to have it put in.
Same with a tranny. And it's WAY cheaper than a car payment.
I think you have me confused. I am the king of used car advocacy around here.
(munching dry cat food like granola)
BTW, did I mention I just bought my fifth house?
Nick
Were getting one though!
Lets see what we fit in it, Three adults, one big bike, one 70 pound doggy. Very comfortable indeed.
Its really quite, gets decent mileage, it has an ausome sound system, and a place to plug in your iPod.(hell yeah)
Its advertised to 'sporty' people, but its really, nice even if you dont camp out in it, and have a need for waterproof seats, that can fold up against the wall or be taken entirely out
Way better than a Ford Explorer, ick
Why did you want one?
I thought I hated all SUV's till I saw the Honda Element. 1 week till our green element arives! crist. . .i've been bought by this car
Originally posted by ena
trumptman, don't get caught in that 36K trap! You need a nice used car about 5-10 years old. And don't let anyone tell you any different on the 100k mile thing, most engines are good through 150K-180K WITH REGULAR SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE. In some cases even 200k.
I just bought a '95 Voyager SE for $6800 last year. Sold my old Honda Civic for $3000 and was out the balance of $3800. No payments---just cut the guy a check and you are done.
As for the engine, even if does blow, go get one that's from a reputable junkyard (the last one I bought for a Ford festiva was $300) and, get a couple of friends and slap it in over a weekend. No sweat---even if you have to pay the corner garage to do it for you, you are still only looking at $500-$800 to have it put in.
Same with a tranny. And it's WAY cheaper than a car payment.
Actually, it is not. You spent almost 7,000 on 95 voyager? You got screwed.
Buying a 5-10 year old car is insane. Scott is right.
Originally posted by xionja
Check out the Honda Element. Really. I know it looks foolish. Its ugly.
Were getting one though!
Lets see what we fit in it, Three adults, one big bike, one 70 pound doggy. Very comfortable indeed.
Its really quite, gets decent mileage, it has an ausome sound system, and a place to plug in your iPod.(hell yeah)
Its advertised to 'sporty' people, but its really, nice even if you dont camp out in it, and have a need for waterproof seats, that can fold up against the wall or be taken entirely out
Way better than a Ford Explorer, ick
Why did you want one?
I thought I hated all SUV's till I saw the Honda Element. 1 week till our green element arives! crist. . .i've been bought by this car
That Honda is gross. The reviews are mixed at best. It looks like a mutant postal truck.
I also can't believe you are killing the planet and supporting terrorists so you can take your dog somewhere with you. That Element will get about 22 mpg. You could have gotten a manuel transmission Civic and gotten up to 44 mpg with thoughtful driving.
Nick
Originally posted by SDW2001
Actually, it is not. You spent almost 7,000 on 95 voyager? You got screwed.
Buying a 5-10 year old car is insane. Scott is right.
There are obviously costs associated with owning any vehicle for any period of time.
According to estimates like this one...true cost to own
she basically got the car for just the cost of the financing a new one.
I know there are a lot of financing incentives right now but many of them still have gotchas and catches. Only available on select models, for 36 months, have credit score above 700 etc.
Also even that estimate doesn't consider that a lot of states have sales taxes. California is 8% and that does add up.
Even if you consider her deal not the greatest it still cuts the monthly costs by $240 a month for the next 5 years and that is assuming over $2000 a year for repairs. That is over $14400 of real savings using conservative numbers.
Of course if you buy the vehicle for $3300 like I did, there could be even more.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
That Honda is gross. The reviews are mixed at best. It looks like a mutant postal truck.
I also can't believe you are killing the planet and supporting terrorists so you can take your dog somewhere with you. That Element will get about 22 mpg. You could have gotten a manuel transmission Civic and gotten up to 44 mpg with thoughtful driving.
Nick
I'm sorry
I bike myself everywhere though, so i'm saving the planet, and not getting to enjoy the new car.
I still recomend the Element over the Explorer.
Originally posted by trumptman
There are obviously costs associated with owning any vehicle for any period of time.
According to estimates like this one...true cost to own
she basically got the car for just the cost of the financing a new one.
I know there are a lot of financing incentives right now but many of them still have gotchas and catches. Only available on select models, for 36 months, have credit score above 700 etc.
Also even that estimate doesn't consider that a lot of states have sales taxes. California is 8% and that does add up.
Even if you consider her deal not the greatest it still cuts the monthly costs by $240 a month for the next 5 years and that is assuming over $2000 a year for repairs. That is over $14400 of real savings using conservative numbers.
Of course if you buy the vehicle for $3300 like I did, there could be even more.
Nick
I agree.
Oh, by the way, Ena is a he, not a she.
Trust me. I know.
Let's just say we are on a first name basis.
And we paid cash for the minivan, so there were no finance charges to consider--throw that in the "a penny saved is a penny earned" column. And it was in incredible condition. The lady we bought it from had only grown (out of the house) children, and kept it in the garage, so it looked almost new. And it was the Kelly Blue Book value. So I guess as long as we didn't feel ... taken advantage of, so much the better.
Now, SUVs: They are not as bad as they have been made out to be. many get nearly the same mileage as a minivan.
One more thing: The honda element looks like a turd with wheels.
Originally posted by SDW2001
The cost was $240 a month...and you're driving a 5-10 year old car for that money. Plus, you had to come up with $7k in cash. That's money you could be putting to work for you. For a little more, you can have a brand new car with a warranty. And, are you considering the money that you have to save for the next one? See, you're still making payments...and driving an old car on top of it.
Now, SUVs: They are not as bad as they have been made out to be. many get nearly the same mileage as a minivan.
One more thing: The honda element looks like a turd with wheels.
hmmmmmmm.....but after selling the Civic I only had to come up with the $3800. I can't complain about that....but yes, I do have to save up for the next car but, with inflation, that cost will still be roughly the same as the $3800 I put towards the Voyager---less than a month's wages every 4-5 years (plus upkeep.)
"God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden in a Fury."
But in Psalm 83, the Almighty clearly owns a Pontiac and a Geo. The passage urges the Lord to,
"pursue your enemies with your Tempest and terrify them with your Storm." - Psalm 83:15
Perhaps, God favors Dodge pickup trucks, because Moses' followers are warned not to go up a mountain
"until the Ram's horn sounds a long blast." - Exodus 19:13
Some scholars insist that Jesus drove a Honda, but didn't like to talk about it.
As proof, they cite a verse in St. John's Gospel where Christ tells the crowd,
"For I did not speak of my own Accord..." - John 12:49
Meanwhile, Moses rode an old British motorcycle, as evidenced by a Bible passage declaring that
"the roar of Moses' Triumph is heard in the hills."
Joshua drove a Triumph sports car with a hole in its muffler:
"Joshua's Triumph was heard throughout the land."
And, following the Master's lead, the Apostles car-pooled in a Honda
"The Apostles were in one Accord." !!!! - Acts 5:12
The Volvo XC 70 is a beautiful wagon that is higher off the ground compared to a normal car to give it a more SUV like stance and I believe (but don't quote me on this) that you can get the T5 engine in it, which is a superb and powerful engine.
My parents used to lease a Volvo V70 T5, and that was a beautiful car. They were thinking about buying it once the lease ran out, but instead they got the Saab 9-5 wagon.
The Saab 9-5 wagon is equally nice. Comes with a V-6 and its very fast. My mom drives the Saab 9-5 wagon still (2000 model), and although she doesn't have little kids to drive anymore (I'm 20 and the youngest), she does haul two big dogs around, and its perfect. The fact that it is lower to the ground makes it easier for her to get the dogs in and out of it. Not to mention that the Saab wagon has a very fast engine and EXCELLENT cornering (I love making u-turns in that car). I used it this past weekend to haul 50 bags of stone to put under her deck.
The Passat wagons are nice too, but I think the Volvos and Saabs are bigger. Definitely consider station wagons. They are actually pretty cool.
Here are some links:
Saab 9-5 Wagon
Volvo XC 70
Volvo V70
Volvo V40
VW Passat Wagon
Originally posted by SDW2001
The cost was $240 a month...and you're driving a 5-10 year old car for that money. Plus, you had to come up with $7k in cash. That's money you could be putting to work for you. For a little more, you can have a brand new car with a warranty. And, are you considering the money that you have to save for the next one? See, you're still making payments...and driving an old car on top of it.
Now, SUVs: They are not as bad as they have been made out to be. many get nearly the same mileage as a minivan.
One more thing: The honda element looks like a turd with wheels.
If you looked at the link for the true cost of ownership, you would know that most of that $240 a month would be spent regardless of which vehicle you owned.
It was throwing in every repair, tires, gas, insurance, etc.
You need these items regardless of what vehicle you purchase.
I also figured in a total of $10,000 for repairs in only 5 years.
Especially for repairs, if the vehicle is the type that holds up well you are talking thousands of dollars more in difference from the initial difference which was already huge.
If the repairs are the typical ones, water pumps, alternators, etc. They will be well below 10k.
As for $7,000 working for you, that just isn't true. They sold their old car and tossed in another $3800. Most people would trade in their old car and have to throw in some cash down as well to get a decent deal or payment. The most you could consider not "working for you" is the difference between whatever you would have laid down at what they laid down.
As for things working for you, if I had to look at your finances, credit score, etc. The fully paid for used car would be listed as an asset, even though it is depreciating. The new car with its associated payment would be listed as a liability and affect your debt ratios with regard to interest rates charged on loans like houses. Debt ratios with regard to monthly income and payments also change your credit score.
When you consider a minimum of $14k more in pocket plus the affect with regard to credit score, etc. I would drive a used car any day of the week.
Nick