Apple rumored to be near completion of new 'Logic Pro X'

Posted:
in Mac Software edited January 2014
Apple is reportedly finishing an update to Logic Pro 9, its professional digital audio and music sequencing program, taking care not to rile existing users with significant changes.



The new update is reportedly called Logic Pro X to maintain the same branding as Apple's recent Final Cut X. However, according to a report by Japanese blog Macotakara, Apple's Logic team is making great efforts to stress that it will not shift toward a GarageBand interface, heading off fears that Logic Pro might lose its professional edge.



The unkindest Final Cut



Some professional users of Final Cut were not at all happy with the alignment of the new Final Cut Pro X with the user interface of Apple's iLife iMovie, a move AppleInsider reported back in May based on contacts with sources familiar with Apple's plans.



That report stated that Final Cut Studio would be "getting a significant makeover to better target the software to the mainstream of Apple's customer base rather than high end professionals," a fact that was roundly criticized by other media outlets who were not privy to Apple's actual plans.



While some professional editors have complained about Final Cut Pro X's resemblance to iMovie, the two software titles have actually both made changes to adopt Apple's planned unified interface enhancements.



Final Cut Pro's original lead developer, Randy Ubillos, completely redesigned the original, simplistic iMovie to deliver iMovie 08 in 2007, delivering a streamlined and more power interface but lacking some of the original features of earlier versions of the iLife app. Subsequent iMovie updates have restored most of those missing features.



Ubillos was then charged with handling the refresh of Final Cut Pro, which required an extensive update to bring it up to date as a modern 64-bit Cocoa app for Mac OS X and its new QuickTime X architecture. Final Cut was originally written for PowerPC Macs running the Classic Mac OS and its earlier QuickTime video architecture, long before modern frameworks such as Core Video and Grand Central Dispatch had developed.







It's therefore not surprising that the new Final Cut Pro X (above) adopted much of the same modernization in its user interface that iMovie 08 had introduced earlier, but the association of the new pro app with Apple's consumer iLife sibling was regarded as a bad thing, particularly by users who were intimately familiar with the ins and outs of earlier versions of Final Cut.



Apple's stressing that Logic Pro X would not adopt the user interface of GarageBand is curious in that GarageBand is itself clearly lifted from Logic's timeline user interface, simply scaled down to make the title more accessible to entry level musicians.



In addition to the new Final Cut Pro X interface, professional editors were also upset by missing features such as a lack of support for importing and exporting XML, EDL and OMF (for migrating editing decision lists and metadata); external monitoring; and existing 32-bit plugins, all of which will have to be rewritten to support the new 64-bit app.



Logic will not experience the issue in migrating to 64-bit plugins, as the existing version of Logic Pro is already 64-bit. It also appears that the Logic team is working hard to avoid other issues related to missing functionality.



Logic Pro X moves to the the App Store



Like Aperture and Final Cut Pro X, the new Logic Pro X package will be released via the App Store. In the move, the Logic Pro accessory app MainStage (used to manage virtual instruments during live performances) will reportedly spin off into a separate app, while WaveBurner (a standalone app used to master audio CDs) will have its functionality incorporated into Logic Pro X itself.



SoundTrack Pro 3, formerly included in both Final Cut Studio and Logic Studio as a tool for synching background audio to video, is reported to have a replacement but the report has not filled in any details regarding that program. The new app will likely be added to the Mac App Store alongside Final Cut Pro X, Logic Pro X, MainStage and the existing Aperture.



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 58
    Yes... standalone Mainstage! If so, great move, Apple!!
  • Reply 2 of 58
    Not satisfied with pissing off the professional video market... Apple now has its eyes set on the professional audio market.
  • Reply 3 of 58
    Obligatory "X makes it worse" jokes, COMMENCE!



    When it's released, it will revolutionize professional music-making as we know it… but it won't be compatible with styles of music invented before 2011.



    The interface will be a dream to use… but you'll only be able to have a single instrument in a song. And the audio can only be mono.



    AND SO ON…
  • Reply 4 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post




    The interface will be a dream to use? but you'll only be able to have a single instrument in a song. And the audio can only be mono.






    EDIT: The interface will be a dream to use? it only works in your dreams.



    Seriously though, I trust that Apple knows where they are headed. In January, analysts were fretful of the apparent lack of a succession plan at Apple. Now Steve Jobs has resigned, and recommended that Apple "execute [their] succession plan and name Tim Cook as CEO of Apple"; Apple's stock has not even unduly suffered.
  • Reply 5 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


    Not satisfied with pissing off the professional video market... Apple now has its eyes set on the professional audio market.



    Let the uninspired complaints begin.



    No one seems to look to the future with hope anymore.



    They will do what they did to Final Cut Pro X. They will release a product useful for prosumers but not so much for the professionals but it will allow them to get used to the new interface so when it does get the pro features they demand they will be able to use it straight away with little downtime for training.



    Of course anyone with half a brain should be able to work this one out... seems like there are a lot of people with less than half.
  • Reply 6 of 58
    Looking forward to it.



    Love the new FCPX and wanted, but didn't get, an update to Soundtrack Pro. Was tempted to pick up Logic last week, but decided to hold off. Don't actually need a new audio app (have several already that work fine and will do so for a couple more years) but hope to dabble a little and streamline my workflow.



    Now if they would update (at least the UI) DVD-SP or if Roxio would produce an addition to Toast that would make it a pro DVD/BR creation app...
  • Reply 7 of 58
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    I hope that they don't make it more iOS like, so common amateurs and everyday fools can use it. There had better not be "smart instruments" like iOS garageband has. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what it looks like when details get released, but I just might be sticking with Logic 9 for awhile.
  • Reply 8 of 58
    moxommoxom Posts: 325member
    Looking forward (nervously) to this update.



    Logic was the reason I switched from Windows (Cakewalk Sonar) to Mac...



    Oh - I hope they add some sort of Arpeggiator plug-in (can't stand using Logic's Environment editor)
  • Reply 9 of 58
    Beside what happened to FCPX, there are some expectations and concerns. I named them the good, the bad, the equivocal.



    1. The price will be lower. FCP Studio was formerly $999 but FCPX is $299. Other bundles like Motion and Compress sell separately but still they are way cheaper than Studio version. Logic Pro Studio now is $599. I anticipate Logic Pro X standalone will sell around $199~249. (the good)



    2. Unlike FCP, Logic Studio consumes a lot more hard-drive space. Logic.app is just 500MB more or less. However, the sound samples and AUs that are virtual instruments Logic uses take about 45GB. Will we have to download 45GB from Mac App Store or will Apple come up with some idea? They can compress the sound samples, they usually are 44.1kHz, 1411bps, AIFF, to 256kbps AAC files. it might work great. 256kbps AACs are really great and I don't think non-professional listeners will distinguish each other. However, if Apple does not perform those action, users will have to download 45GB, or even worse, Apple will just KILL sound samples and AUs. We know Apple can. (the bad)



    3. Just like FCPX, Logic X's user interface will be streamlined. Prosumers will love it but professionals won't. I am a composer who does not use MIDI sequencers often because I deal with traditional instruments so new Logic X will fit just greatly to me. However, if you're a hardcore MIDI user, you might be disappointed. (the equivocal)
  • Reply 10 of 58
    moxommoxom Posts: 325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Netimoon View Post


    Beside what happened to FCPX, there are some expectations and concerns. I named them the good, the bad, the equivocal.



    1. The price will be lower. FCP Studio was formerly $999 but FCPX is $299. Other bundles like Motion and Compress sell separately but still they are way cheaper than Studio version. Logic Pro Studio now is $599. I anticipate Logic Pro X standalone will sell around $199~249. (the good)



    2. Unlike FCP, Logic Studio consumes a lot more hard-drive space. Logic.app is just 500MB more or less. However, the sound samples and AUs that are virtual instruments Logic uses take about 45GB. Will we have to download 45GB from Mac App Store or will Apple come up with some idea? They can compress the sound samples, they usually are 44.1kHz, 1411bps, AIFF, to 256kbps AAC files. it might work great. 256kbps AACs are really great and I don't think non-professional listeners will distinguish each other. However, if Apple does not perform those action, users will have to download 45GB, or even worse, Apple will just KILL sound samples and AUs. We know Apple can. (the bad)



    3. Just like FCPX, Logic X's user interface will be streamlined. Prosumers will love it but professionals won't. I am a composer who does not use MIDI sequencers often because I deal with traditional instruments so new Logic X will fit just greatly to me. However, if you're a hardcore MIDI user, you might be disappointed. (the equivocal)



    This is pretty much spot on to what I'm thinking. Can't wait to see if this is the case...
  • Reply 11 of 58
    foljsfoljs Posts: 276member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


    Not satisfied with pissing off the professional video market... Apple now has its eyes set on the professional audio market.



    Right on bro. How dared invest time, money and effort to rethink and redesign FCP into FCP X and lose some features in the progress to be regained in later versions?



    And now they are doing it again with Logic.



    Why couldn't they deliver the same old bloated program with a few additions as a "new" version? Works for Adobe...
  • Reply 12 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post


    Let the uninspired complaints begin.



    No one seems to look to the future with hope anymore.



    They will do what they did to Final Cut Pro X. They will release a product useful for prosumers but not so much for the professionals but it will allow them to get used to the new interface so when it does get the pro features they demand they will be able to use it straight away with little downtime for training.



    Of course anyone with half a brain should be able to work this one out... seems like there are a lot of people with less than half.



    Oh I agree that FCPX is the future... the problem is that professionals need things that FCPX cannot do in the present. So many things are missing...



    The future is just that... the future. FCPX is just not ready for primetime (in most production houses)



    If I had a Mac and a new tapeless camera... I'd be all over FCPX. I'm a one-man operation.



    But it's not ready for existing production houses... and even the low price of $299 is too much to "experiment" with a new interface especially if it can't do what you need it to do right now.
  • Reply 13 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post


    This is pretty much spot on to what I'm thinking. Can't wait to see if this is the case...



    Yeah. I understand why professionals are upset with FCPX, but I also have to admit Apple would have been tempted to lure prosumers. We all know it is really hard to satisfy both side.
  • Reply 14 of 58
    jm6032jm6032 Posts: 147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


    Not satisfied with pissing off the professional video market... Apple now has its eyes set on the professional audio market.



    I know we're expecting history to repeat itself, however, I don't think it will be as big a crash as implied here. I don't have statistics except my own experience in music production. My wife has a string quartet and we record many samples and some CD tracks in-house using a M-Audio Fire Wire interface and Logic. We farm out all mastering and serious editing.



    No one we use as outside contractors use Logic. It seems Logic just doesn't have the penetration into the audio space that FCP has, or had, in the video space. Everyone we work with has Pro-Tools and they are always a bit miffed when I show up with Logic projects.



    On the whole, Logic has been good for us and I will be disappointed if the new product is something I can't use.
  • Reply 15 of 58
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Netimoon View Post




    2. Unlike FCP, Logic Studio consumes a lot more hard-drive space. Logic.app is just 500MB more or less. However, the sound samples and AUs that are virtual instruments Logic uses take about 45GB. Will we have to download 45GB from Mac App Store or will Apple come up with some idea? They can compress the sound samples, they usually are 44.1kHz, 1411bps, AIFF, to 256kbps AAC files. it might work great. 256kbps AACs are really great and I don't think non-professional listeners will distinguish each other. However, if Apple does not perform those action, users will have to download 45GB, or even worse, Apple will just KILL sound samples and AUs. We know Apple can. (the bad)



    If Apple does that, then they might as well name it Logic Amateur X. You're right that the average person won't notice the difference between a 256 AAC and a non compressed audio file, but anybody with Pro ears would notice it right away, and Logic is supposed to be for professionals, hence the word "Pro" in Logic Pro.
  • Reply 16 of 58
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,152moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Wednesday's report said that the development team responsible for Logic indicated that "Logic Pro X will not have a GarageBand style user interface."



    Sounds like the Logic Pro team just burned the Final Cut team. Also kind of implying that the Garageband interface isn't that good - don't like the fake wood effect? I really don't like the reputation these transitions to X versions are getting. Modernising archaic codebases shouldn't induce fear of dumbing down. It didn't happen with the OS so it shouldn't happen with the Pro Apps either. Perhaps this will be the exception.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    SoundTrack Pro 3, formerly included in both Final Cut Studio and Logic Studio as a tool for synching background audio to video, is reported to have a replacement but the report has not filled in any details regarding that program. The new app will likely be added to the Mac App Store alongside Final Cut Pro X, Logic Pro X, MainStage and the existing Aperture.



    Soundtrack Pro sucks balls (not a good thing) and it either needs a decent overhaul or it just needs to be replaced by Logic. If Final Cut Studio went from $999 to $299 for FCPX, then Logic Studio may go from $499 to $149 for Logic Pro X. They could bring Soundtrack Pro in at $49 to complement FCPX but they'd be better just putting more STP functions inside FCPX and if you need serious audio work, just get Logic.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by netimoon


    Unlike FCP, Logic Studio consumes a lot more hard-drive space.



    Final Cut Studio on disc is over 30GB. The best idea for samples and instruments is to have an online library with previews - like how iTunes works. Then you just play a 30 second preview and decide which you want. They can grow the database when they want and you only have to download what you use.
  • Reply 17 of 58
    I think the comments that they will do the same as they did with FC are way off base.



    In the case of FCX they had to go to 64 bit but it's obvious they couldn't do it without throwing much of the code out and starting from scratch. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part it seems like features dropped in FCX were done because they couldn't get them recreated in the new code base, and many are planned to return eventually when they have time to get around to it.



    Logic has been 64 bit for a year and a half. A few features are missing in the 64 bit version (and hopefully those will be back in Logic 10), but there's no reason for more features to go away like happened with FC. FC can't run 32 bit plugins, Logic has a 32 bit bridge. The ugly 64 bit transition already happened to Logic. And it really wasn't that ugly.



    And from what I've heard, the next major Logic update is not any time soon. Definitely in the works, but nowhere near completion.
  • Reply 18 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Netimoon View Post


    Yeah. I understand why professionals are upset with FCPX, but I also have to admit Apple would have been tempted to lure prosumers. We all know it is really hard to satisfy both side.



    Exactly. There's no doubt that Apple will sell more copies of FCPX to prosumers at $299 than they ever sold the $999 Final Cut Studio.



    But here's the thing... video editing is hard! It's not supposed to be a prosumer job. And professional video editors were fine with FCP7.



    Apple had to cut corners to make FCPX easier to use than FCP7... at the expense of the major features that pro video editors have relied on for years.



    It will be very hard to please both sides... but should they attempt it?
  • Reply 19 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Soundtrack Pro sucks balls (not a good thing) and it either needs a decent overhaul or it just needs to be replaced by Logic. If Final Cut Studio went from $999 to $299 for FCPX, then Logic Studio may go from $499 to $149 for Logic Pro X. They could bring Soundtrack Pro in at $49 to complement FCPX but they'd be better just putting more STP functions inside FCPX and if you need serious audio work, just get Logic.



    STP is clearly dead, and that was obvious long before FCX shipped without it. The latest version was 3.0.1 which shipped over two years ago. That's literally years without even a bugfix, for an extremely buggy program.



    STP did have some cool features and audio editing was vastly superior to Logic, it was a shame they dumped it instead of putting the work into making it a solid contender. I hope they roll the good parts into Logic (including destructive wave file editing).
  • Reply 20 of 58
    foljsfoljs Posts: 276member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jm6032 View Post


    I know we're expecting history to repeat itself, however, I don't think it will be as big a crash as implied here. I don't have statistics except my own experience in music production. My wife has a string quartet and we record many samples and some CD tracks in-house using a M-Audio Fire Wire interface and Logic. We farm out all mastering and serious editing.



    No one we use as outside contractors use Logic. It seems Logic just doesn't have the penetration into the audio space that FCP has, or had, in the video space. Everyone we work with has Pro-Tools and they are always a bit miffed when I show up with Logic projects.



    Tons of music artists have Logic.



    Read interviews of pop/hip-hop/r&b/dance/electronic musicians and Logic is used in like 80% of the setups (I read most of the music trade press). Some do use it rigged into Pro Tools.



    Now, as for studios, most use Pro Tools. But the role of a computer in a studio is different than in a musician's work environment.
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