Oracle seeking an injunction against Android as an "incompatible clone of Java"

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014
Oracle's comments in its infringement lawsuit against Google's Android platform has revealed that the company is seeking not just royalties, but a legal order stopping the distribution of Android entirely.



Oracle and Google are deadlocked in settlement talks ordered by the judge overseeing the case, according to a report by FOSS Patents blogger Florian Mueller.



Mueller analysis of the talks suggests that Google hopes to postpone any settlement with Oracle until its acquisition of Motorola Mobility is finalized, with the intent of filing retaliatory countersuits against Oracle.



However, Mueller separately notes that while Oracle has calculated demands for past damages, including patent damages, copyright damages and a share of Google's profits as an infringer, it is not detailing future damages in the form of an ongoing royalty, similar to the fees Microsoft has negotiated with Android licensees such as HTC.



Instead, Oracle notes in a filing that it "intends to strenuously pursue injunctive relief to resolve the key issue in this case: whether Google can use Oracle's intellectual property to create an incompatible clone of Java and thereby undermine Oracle's and many others' investments in 'write once, run anywhere.' If future royalties are applied, it is well established that they should be based on a separate, post-verdict assessment."



Mueller explains that this means Oracle views Android as a fragmentation of Java, and that rather than seeking future royalties, it would prefer to see an injunction that would either force Google to create an entirely new platform for Android that does not infringe Java (a massive investment that would render all existing Android software obsolete), or to apparently to recognize Android as Java, involving steep Oracle licensing costs for the platform going forward.



Oracle may not be granted the injunction it is "strenuously pursuing." In that case, if Google "is found to infringe but Oracle is denied an injunction," then "Google can continue to infringe but has to pay the amount determined by the court, which might be a per-unit royalty or a percentage of revenues," Mueller states.



Timing of Google's Motorola Mobility deal also factors into Apple lawsuit



While Oracle is directly suing Google over the technical foundations of Android's Java-like runtime, Apple has so far limited its lawsuits to hardware vendors licensing Android, including Samsung and Motorola Mobility.



With Google now in the process of buying Motorola Mobility, Apple's infringement claims now involve Google itself. However, because that deal is not finalized, Apple has recommended that the case be put on hold until Google's acquisition is completed.



Currently, Motorola Mobility lacks the legal ability to negotiate its patent rights and obligations without Google's input as a buyer. However, because the deal is still pending Google is restricted from involving itself in the case because it doesn't yet own the company. Apple therefore claims that Motorola currently lacks standing to negotiate the rights to its own patents.



Apple's lawyers have pressed the legal council of Motorola Mobility for more information on its confidential merger agreement with Google, a sensitive subject that Motorola has tried to avoid while deciding how to maneuver in the weeks since Apple filed its motion to stay the case.



Apple's attorneys have complained that the company "is expending enormous resources litigating toward final judgments that may be invalid if Motorola lacks standing."



Meanwhile, Motorola Mobility has finally responded to Apple's motion to stay its infringement case by filing to request "a limited period of time before the entry of any such order [to stay] so that Motorola can attempt to cure the defects in standing."



However, Mueller notes that Motorola Mobility can't "cure its defects in standing" without a revised agreement with Google, as its existing agreement prevents Motorola from settling pending patent litigation. But such a new agreement would also be a problem, because as Mueller notes, Motorola's management "must operate the company independently, within the parameters of the merger agreement, until the transaction is closed."



Google's deal to buy Motorola Mobility is therefore threatening to hold up Motorola's ability to "defend" Android from infringement cases by both Oracle and Apple, the opposite of what Google intended its $12.5 billion acquisition to do. Instead, it is delaying settlement opportunities and threatening to make it even more expensive to resolve the issues.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 203
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    I'm rooting for Oracle and Android should be shutdown and taken off the market, making it illegal for any manufacturer to make any device with Android on it. Don't be a thief, come up with your own shit.
  • Reply 2 of 203
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    I'm rooting for Oracle and Android should be shutdown and taken off the market, making it illegal for any manufacturer to make any device with Android on it. Don't be a thief, come up with your own shit.



    If that happens, maybe HP can get someone interested in buying WebOS.



    And Microsoft and Apple will certainly have a big party.
  • Reply 3 of 203
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,365member
    The reason why they're going for an injunction isn't to stop Google and Android. It's to get into a better position to demand higher licensing fees. If they just go after the licensing, and the product remains on the market, they have less bargaining power than if the product is not allowed to be marketed and sold.
  • Reply 4 of 203
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,422member
    I say Oracle should just nuke Android from orbit.



    Only way to be sure...
  • Reply 5 of 203
    YES!!! You go, Oracle!!! Time to finally fight back against the thieves!!!



    Those bastards at Google need to be taught a huge lesson. This certainly isn't the first thing Google has stolen & raped & pillaged:



    http://brianshall.com/content/google-are-pussies
  • Reply 6 of 203
    The intrigue I have with these legal patent battles is equal to that of reading a Robert Ludlum book.
  • Reply 7 of 203
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,562member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    I'm rooting for Oracle and Android should be shutdown and taken off the market, making it illegal for any manufacturer to make any device with Android on it. Don't be a thief, come up with your own shit.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    If that happens, maybe HP can get someone interested in buying WebOS.



    And Microsoft and Apple will certainly have a big party.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    I say Oracle should just nuke Android from orbit.



    Only way to be sure...











    So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?



    Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.



    It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.



    Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).
  • Reply 8 of 203
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dragon View Post


    The intrigue I have with these legal patent battles is equal to that of reading a Robert Ludlum book.



    There should be a reality show following all of the tech world legal battles.



    Break out the popcorn!
  • Reply 9 of 203
    What do you think?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    YES!!! You go, Oracle!!! Time to finally fight back against the thieves!!!



    Those bastards at Google need to be taught a huge lesson. This certainly isn't the first thing Google has stolen & raped & pillaged:



    http://brianshall.com/content/google-are-pussies



  • Reply 10 of 203
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,422member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?



    Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.



    It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.



    Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).



    I think the same thing as well. Android though was designed to infringe from the beginning. The google boys even admitted that back in the day.



    Windows 8, WebOS, iOS... they all made their own unique stuff. I have zero problem with them.



    Google really should be ashamed.
  • Reply 11 of 203
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The reason why they're going for an injunction isn't to stop Google and Android. It's to get into a better position to demand higher licensing fees. If they just go after the licensing, and the product remains on the market, they have less bargaining power than if the product is not allowed to be marketed and sold.



    Either outcome is not good for Android and Google. If Google finally has to pay their fair share for ripping and using other people's intellectual property, then will Android still be free?



    If I were a smartphone maker other than Apple, I'd be looking and searching for alternatives other than Android.
  • Reply 12 of 203
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The reason why they're going for an injunction isn't to stop Google and Android. It's to get into a better position to demand higher licensing fees. If they just go after the licensing, and the product remains on the market, they have less bargaining power than if the product is not allowed to be marketed and sold.



    So Oracle would be ok with an incompatible version of Java polluting their write once run everywhere mantra as long as they pay the license?
  • Reply 13 of 203
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?



    If Google really did infringe on Oracle's Java, and Oracle is able to win in court, then sure, Google should be punished if you ask me. I see it as a simple case of right and wrong.
  • Reply 14 of 203
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 15 of 203
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,562member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    I think the same thing as well. Android though was designed to infringe from the beginning. The google boys even admitted that back in the day.



    Windows 8, WebOS, iOS... they all made their own unique stuff. I have zero problem with them.



    Google really should be ashamed.



    See, I agree with this. I think that Google should be sued for all of its infringements and pay up dearly. But take it off the market? Come on!



    I just die a little inside when it's assumed that Apple makes the best solutions for everyone. Killing Android will not be a good thing for consumers.
  • Reply 16 of 203
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,562member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    If Google really did infringe on Oracle's Java, and Oracle is able to win in court, then sure, Google should be punished if you ask me. I see it as a simple case of right and wrong.



    If Google is in the wrong, they should pay whatever damages that are due to other companies. But to suggest that another OS simply be wiped off the market just because it benefits AAPL? Who are we kidding here
  • Reply 17 of 203
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    But take it off the market? Come on!



    Sure, why not? That is up to the intellectual property owner.



    What do some big companies do when they seize a ton of cheap knockoffs and counterfeit goods? They destroy them all.
  • Reply 18 of 203
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,562member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Sure, why not? That is up to the intellectual property owner.



    What do some big companies do when they seize a ton of cheap knockoffs and counterfeit goods? They destroy them all.



    Oracle wants $2 billion, not to take Android off the market.
  • Reply 19 of 203
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,590member
    Love Larry. Steve's buddy.
  • Reply 20 of 203
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    Oracle wants $2 billion, not to take Android off the market.



    I read that too, but I'm just repeating what I read in the first line of this article.



    Oracle's comments in its infringement lawsuit against Google's Android platform has revealed that the company is seeking not just royalties, but a legal order stopping the distribution of Android entirely



    Stopping Android completely might not be their endgame, but that's what they're saying that they want at the moment.
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