On the large scale he's right to some extent. Cheap won out so often over quality it became the model many businesses followed. Just look at VHS or Winblows machines, not until iPod did a higher priced but superior product win through so strongly against the crap. I would credit Sony with some success in this too with many of their products in the far distant past. My first Trinitron 13" was a techno wet dream.
He is saying no other American company has ever combined good design and economic manufacturing. Such a statement is either right or wrong. It cannot be right to some extent. If it is right to some extent, then he is just wrong.
It is actually easy to come up with myriad examples to prove him wrong. But quality design and even economic manufacturing are really subjective concepts. So I won't bother. But in general, because there are soooooooooo many American businesses, it is silly to make an absolute statement like that because no one here could possibly know about every business, every product and how they are manufactured to be able to say Apple is the first American business to bla bla bla. There is no possible way he could know this.
If memory serves, Jobs announced a goal of 1% of cellphone sales world wide. So indeed, moving that bar to 10% is a sign of accomplishment and confidence.
As for one model at a time, didn't they start selling *older* models concurrently since from 2009 onward?
They only focus on one model at a time. They also only stick to one strategy instead of diluting resources between dozens of devices and operating systems. Combine that with the fact that Android (their main competitor) is moving at a slower rate. The phone makers would need to help Android (which is already pretty far behind) advance at a faster rate if they want any chance at more then the low end (and less profitable) side of the market.
Along those same lines, I've been wondering for awhile now how many of the Occupy Wall Street folks, who are protesting corporate greed and excessive profits, own iPhones? Or any Apple product, for that matter? Apple's profit margins would embarrass even a Big Oil or Big Bank executive.
If memory serves, Jobs announced a goal of 1% of cellphone sales world wide. So indeed, moving that bar to 10% is a sign of accomplishment and confidence.
As for one model at a time, didn't they start selling *older* models concurrently since from 2009 onward?
Yes... But it is also significant that the *older* models are older hardware only .
All *older* models currently being sold run the latest iOS version which provides all the features/benefits that the "older" hardware can support.
The one possible exception is the Siri beta... Though i think this is more to limit the Siri rollout than the inability of the iP4 to handle Siri.
Along those same lines, I've been wondering for awhile now how many of the Occupy Wall Street folks, who are protesting corporate greed and excessive profits, own iPhones? Or any Apple product, for that matter? Apple's profit margins would embarrass even a Big Oil or Big Bank executive.
I'd bet there are a higher percentage of iPhone for that crowd than there are iPhones for the entire US market.
PS: How are these people supporting and feeding themselves out there?
If memory serves, Jobs announced a goal of 1% of cellphone sales world wide. So indeed, moving that bar to 10% is a sign of accomplishment and confidence.
As for one model at a time, didn't they start selling *older* models concurrently since from 2009 onward?
You forgot the other option. They stay the same or they poorly execute one of these options and the companies go bankrupt. That happened to Palm and it looks like RIM is on that trajectory.
But if they go bankrupt, they stop selling phones - which is the first option I cited.
He is saying no other American company has ever combined good design and economic manufacturing. Such a statement is either right or wrong. It cannot be right to some extent. If it is right to some extent, then he is just wrong.
It is actually easy to come up with myriad examples to prove him wrong. But quality design and even economic manufacturing are really subjective concepts. So I won't bother. But in general, because there are soooooooooo many American businesses, it is silly to make an absolute statement like that because no one here could possibly know about every business, every product and how they are manufactured to be able to say Apple is the first American business to bla bla bla. There is no possible way he could know this.
There is a possible way to know this: pay attention for 60 years or so waiting for an American company that can compete with German, Swiss, Scandanavian and later Japanese in technical products made for ordinary people in great -- not good! -- design. Have you seen what American television sets looked like in the 50s and 60s? Did Kodak or Argus ever make the equal to the Leica? Why were Olympia (German) portable typewriters so much more beautiful and pleasurable to type on than Royals?
American companies always tended to build overweight and overdecorated. I can think of a few exceptions. Western Electric telephone sets, the Polaroid Land and SX70 cameras, and my 50s Oster beehive blender that I still use every day. Name another.
It's important to get this across, because it is what Jobs, Ive and Apple were/are specifically aiming at: running a company that is based on deep design and integral quality, and spreading it as widely as possible. Everyone sane and not full of Applephobia knows this. What some don't realize is how revolutionary it is that it is coming out of California, which can still be sort of considered part of America.
If you don't see this driving Apple and its current success, then maybe read the biography. If you've read the biography and you still don't get it, there's no hope.
Edit: And why is it so important that it's coming from California? Read What the Dormouse Said by John Markoff. Global currents of cultural change centered around Palo Alto, and Steve Jobs had Fiats, Volkswagens, BMW motorcycles, and the right ethnopharmacology imported from the Hindu Kush and Switzerland to open his senses. And a German father who taught him to look behind the door panels to see how the finish was where no one was supposed to see. Couldn't have come from anywhere else, and it is the tool for the big change in consciousness that everybody was hoping for back then. And it fits in your pants, and even the yuppies get it.
American companies always tended to build overweight and overdecorated. I can think of a few exceptions. Western Electric telephone sets, the Polaroid Land and SX70 cameras, and my 50s Oster beehive blender that I still use every day. Name another.
Actually, both are right. Due to the way the sentence is written, either/or could be the correct interpretation. Obviously though, it was clearly meant one way as opposed to the other as mathematically one could figure out the basics (52-5 = 47).
Their is no elimination factor within the specific sentence that could peg it either way, however reading it in the context of the article would make one lean towards the figure being relative to the 100%. Really this is just semantics though as it would be very difficult to make the sentence 100% bullet proof.
Something akin to "At 52%, Apple has captured an additional 5% of the industry profits, up from 47% in 2010"
That's as close as I can get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
It's even simpler than that. You should never say x percent. It's always x% OF SOMETHING.
So in this case, when Apple went from 47% to 52%, then it's share of the total market grew by 5% OF THE TOTAL MARKET. This could also be expressed to say that it's share grew by 11% OVER ITS PREVIOUS LEVEL.
It's always simplest to go back to the original quote before trying to justify something through interpretation. lets do that shall we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
It's simple. They specified a 5% increase of the all handset profits, not the increase in Apple's profits. You wrote "your" hourly salary, when you need to see how that change in per hour rate affects the example companies total hourly payout then you'll understand what is being measured.
To reiterate, there is 100% that can be taken from any stated market. Apple was taking 47% of the handset market, now they are taking 52% of the handset market. How much of an increase of the handset market did they gain? If you can't figure out that is 5% I feel bad for when you hit 3rd grade.
That was VERY specific in stating the "of what" was "all the handset profits", a simple 100% of the market as I pointed it solipsism wrote earlier. The blurring of fact or ambiguous language wasn't by solipsism, it was by sloppily constructed posts responding to solipsism. Can we all try to stop justifying obstinacy and stupidity based on it's own provided sloppy data? Stop trying to show how some hypothetical sentence might be ambiguous if it was written in some way or another... when the original sentence wasn't the least bit hypothetical or ambiguous at all?
Like I said, overdecorated. Even American locomotives were considered ornate monstrosities in the 19th C. Can't cite a reference though. I read it in a survey of machine design history about 30 years ago.
The "Lido Decorated" is a perfect example of American meretricious aping of what they thought was European classy. My childhood was filled with beautiful, amusing, Victorianesque crap like that, because parents and grandparents were antique hoarders. I'm glad for the anti-aesthetic education, though.
Simplicity arrived in force in America for the first time in the 50s with the VW. It was a revelation to a kid like me, believe me. An 1800 pound car that you could take the engine out of in 45 minutes easy. The dealer charged $18.95 for engine R&R at the time.
Try something else. Jobs would have thrown that one across the room.
On second thought, I hope not, it is a beautiful piece of kitsch.
Does anybody know that actually this number is down from the second quarter?
"Apple raked in 52% of the overall profits during the quarter, down slightly from 57% in the second calendar quarter [/I]but up from 47% in the year-ago quarter that also had the then-new iPhone 4 on the market."
5% increase of the entire world's handset profits, not 5% increase over their previous quarter's handset profits. Simple math: 52 − 47 = 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_sparkle
But it's not simple math. If it was then a 5% increase of your $7.25 hourly salary would be $12.25 but it's really only $7.61 ( i.e. $7.25 * 5% or $7.25 * 0.05 if you don't understand percentages, is $0.36 not $5.00 )
solipsism is right and BTW your second argument isn't comparable (individual vs. world and percent vs. dollar) to the first so you are still wrong. Give it up already and it really is simple math for those who understand math concepts.
Still that isn't a 5% increase. That is a 500 basis points increase. You can't subtract percentages to get the percent increase. 47% * X% = 52%. I'll let you do the math from there.
You are wrong, solipsism is right and the more you dispute it the less intelligent you appear.
Does anybody know that actually this number is down from the second quarter?
"Apple raked in 52% of the overall profits during the quarter, down slightly from 57% in the second calendar quarter [/I]but up from 47% in the year-ago quarter that also had the then-new iPhone 4 on the market."
The "Lido Decorated" is a perfect example of American meretricious aping of what they thought was European classy. My childhood was filled with beautiful, amusing, Victorianesque crap like that, because parents and grandparents were antique hoarders. I'm glad for the anti-aesthetic education, though.
You might prefer the more austere late-depression offerings from Silex. Wonderfully engineered, the form follows the function exactly, while nevertheless being a beautiful art-deco design. It is built like a tank, and still serves many coffee lovers as an everyday coffee pot because it works very, very well. The engineering is superb.
American companies always tended to build overweight and overdecorated. I can think of a few exceptions. Western Electric telephone sets, the Polaroid Land and SX70 cameras, and my 50s Oster beehive blender that I still use every day. Name another.
I guess you have cited exceptions to your own argument. Thanks for making my point.
There is a possible way to know this: pay attention for 60 years or so waiting for an American company that can compete with German, Swiss, Scandanavian and later Japanese in technical products made for ordinary people in great -- not good! -- design. Have you seen what American television sets looked like in the 50s and 60s? Did Kodak or Argus ever make the equal to the Leica? Why were Olympia (German) portable typewriters so much more beautiful and pleasurable to type on than Royals?
American companies always tended to build overweight and overdecorated. I can think of a few exceptions. Western Electric telephone sets, the Polaroid Land and SX70 cameras, and my 50s Oster beehive blender that I still use every day. Name another.
It's important to get this across, because it is what Jobs, Ive and Apple were/are specifically aiming at: running a company that is based on deep design and integral quality, and spreading it as widely as possible. Everyone sane and not full of Applephobia knows this. What some don't realize is how revolutionary it is that it is coming out of California, which can still be sort of considered part of America.
If you don't see this driving Apple and its current success, then maybe read the biography. If you've read the biography and you still don't get it, there's no hope.
Edit: And why is it so important that it's coming from California? Read What the Dormouse Said by John Markoff. Global currents of cultural change centered around Palo Alto, and Steve Jobs had Fiats, Volkswagens, BMW motorcycles, and the right ethnopharmacology imported from the Hindu Kush and Switzerland to open his senses. And a German father who taught him to look behind the door panels to see how the finish was where no one was supposed to see. Couldn't have come from anywhere else, and it is the tool for the big change in consciousness that everybody was hoping for back then. And it fits in your pants, and even the yuppies get it.
I agree with you. I'd add Cadilac to the list of American products that are terrible designs over the years yet amazingly the name itself is used here to denote quality the way Rolls Royce is. Compare any Cadilac in history with say a BMW or Mercedes from the same era, it is quite a comical exercise.
I guess you have cited exceptions to your own argument. Thanks for making my point.
Yep, exceptions prove the rule. Name one with the mind share and economic gravity of what Apple hath wrought. ConradJoe gave it a try. I like his second one better, but it's a bad way to make coffee. Another criterion is that the functionality should be above the norm.
Which is why no matter how great the 1940 Ford was, and how long you could make it last, it was still stupidly overweight and primitive when compared to what the Czechs, French and Germans were doing at the time. Why?
No culture of excellence for the consumer was prevalent in America, until Apple showed up. Still nobody here gets it, hardly, but we're making progress. China gets it, thankfully.
Comments
On the large scale he's right to some extent. Cheap won out so often over quality it became the model many businesses followed. Just look at VHS or Winblows machines, not until iPod did a higher priced but superior product win through so strongly against the crap. I would credit Sony with some success in this too with many of their products in the far distant past. My first Trinitron 13" was a techno wet dream.
He is saying no other American company has ever combined good design and economic manufacturing. Such a statement is either right or wrong. It cannot be right to some extent. If it is right to some extent, then he is just wrong.
It is actually easy to come up with myriad examples to prove him wrong. But quality design and even economic manufacturing are really subjective concepts. So I won't bother. But in general, because there are soooooooooo many American businesses, it is silly to make an absolute statement like that because no one here could possibly know about every business, every product and how they are manufactured to be able to say Apple is the first American business to bla bla bla. There is no possible way he could know this.
A 13" wet dream? You braggart.
If memory serves, Jobs announced a goal of 1% of cellphone sales world wide. So indeed, moving that bar to 10% is a sign of accomplishment and confidence.
As for one model at a time, didn't they start selling *older* models concurrently since from 2009 onward?
They only focus on one model at a time. They also only stick to one strategy instead of diluting resources between dozens of devices and operating systems. Combine that with the fact that Android (their main competitor) is moving at a slower rate. The phone makers would need to help Android (which is already pretty far behind) advance at a faster rate if they want any chance at more then the low end (and less profitable) side of the market.
iPhone is the 1%.
Along those same lines, I've been wondering for awhile now how many of the Occupy Wall Street folks, who are protesting corporate greed and excessive profits, own iPhones? Or any Apple product, for that matter? Apple's profit margins would embarrass even a Big Oil or Big Bank executive.
If memory serves, Jobs announced a goal of 1% of cellphone sales world wide. So indeed, moving that bar to 10% is a sign of accomplishment and confidence.
As for one model at a time, didn't they start selling *older* models concurrently since from 2009 onward?
Yes... But it is also significant that the *older* models are older hardware only .
All *older* models currently being sold run the latest iOS version which provides all the features/benefits that the "older" hardware can support.
The one possible exception is the Siri beta... Though i think this is more to limit the Siri rollout than the inability of the iP4 to handle Siri.
Along those same lines, I've been wondering for awhile now how many of the Occupy Wall Street folks, who are protesting corporate greed and excessive profits, own iPhones? Or any Apple product, for that matter? Apple's profit margins would embarrass even a Big Oil or Big Bank executive.
I'd bet there are a higher percentage of iPhone for that crowd than there are iPhones for the entire US market.
PS: How are these people supporting and feeding themselves out there?
If memory serves, Jobs announced a goal of 1% of cellphone sales world wide. So indeed, moving that bar to 10% is a sign of accomplishment and confidence.
As for one model at a time, didn't they start selling *older* models concurrently since from 2009 onward?
2009 sounds about right.
You forgot the other option. They stay the same or they poorly execute one of these options and the companies go bankrupt. That happened to Palm and it looks like RIM is on that trajectory.
But if they go bankrupt, they stop selling phones - which is the first option I cited.
He is saying no other American company has ever combined good design and economic manufacturing. Such a statement is either right or wrong. It cannot be right to some extent. If it is right to some extent, then he is just wrong.
It is actually easy to come up with myriad examples to prove him wrong. But quality design and even economic manufacturing are really subjective concepts. So I won't bother. But in general, because there are soooooooooo many American businesses, it is silly to make an absolute statement like that because no one here could possibly know about every business, every product and how they are manufactured to be able to say Apple is the first American business to bla bla bla. There is no possible way he could know this.
There is a possible way to know this: pay attention for 60 years or so waiting for an American company that can compete with German, Swiss, Scandanavian and later Japanese in technical products made for ordinary people in great -- not good! -- design. Have you seen what American television sets looked like in the 50s and 60s? Did Kodak or Argus ever make the equal to the Leica? Why were Olympia (German) portable typewriters so much more beautiful and pleasurable to type on than Royals?
American companies always tended to build overweight and overdecorated. I can think of a few exceptions. Western Electric telephone sets, the Polaroid Land and SX70 cameras, and my 50s Oster beehive blender that I still use every day. Name another.
It's important to get this across, because it is what Jobs, Ive and Apple were/are specifically aiming at: running a company that is based on deep design and integral quality, and spreading it as widely as possible. Everyone sane and not full of Applephobia knows this. What some don't realize is how revolutionary it is that it is coming out of California, which can still be sort of considered part of America.
If you don't see this driving Apple and its current success, then maybe read the biography. If you've read the biography and you still don't get it, there's no hope.
Edit: And why is it so important that it's coming from California? Read What the Dormouse Said by John Markoff. Global currents of cultural change centered around Palo Alto, and Steve Jobs had Fiats, Volkswagens, BMW motorcycles, and the right ethnopharmacology imported from the Hindu Kush and Switzerland to open his senses. And a German father who taught him to look behind the door panels to see how the finish was where no one was supposed to see. Couldn't have come from anywhere else, and it is the tool for the big change in consciousness that everybody was hoping for back then. And it fits in your pants, and even the yuppies get it.
American companies always tended to build overweight and overdecorated. I can think of a few exceptions. Western Electric telephone sets, the Polaroid Land and SX70 cameras, and my 50s Oster beehive blender that I still use every day. Name another.
Silex Lido Coffeemaker
Actually, both are right. Due to the way the sentence is written, either/or could be the correct interpretation. Obviously though, it was clearly meant one way as opposed to the other as mathematically one could figure out the basics (52-5 = 47).
Their is no elimination factor within the specific sentence that could peg it either way, however reading it in the context of the article would make one lean towards the figure being relative to the 100%. Really this is just semantics though as it would be very difficult to make the sentence 100% bullet proof.
Something akin to "At 52%, Apple has captured an additional 5% of the industry profits, up from 47% in 2010"
That's as close as I can get.
It's even simpler than that. You should never say x percent. It's always x% OF SOMETHING.
So in this case, when Apple went from 47% to 52%, then it's share of the total market grew by 5% OF THE TOTAL MARKET. This could also be expressed to say that it's share grew by 11% OVER ITS PREVIOUS LEVEL.
It's always simplest to go back to the original quote before trying to justify something through interpretation. lets do that shall we?
It's simple. They specified a 5% increase of the all handset profits, not the increase in Apple's profits. You wrote "your" hourly salary, when you need to see how that change in per hour rate affects the example companies total hourly payout then you'll understand what is being measured.
To reiterate, there is 100% that can be taken from any stated market. Apple was taking 47% of the handset market, now they are taking 52% of the handset market. How much of an increase of the handset market did they gain? If you can't figure out that is 5% I feel bad for when you hit 3rd grade.
That was VERY specific in stating the "of what" was "all the handset profits", a simple 100% of the market as I pointed it solipsism wrote earlier. The blurring of fact or ambiguous language wasn't by solipsism, it was by sloppily constructed posts responding to solipsism. Can we all try to stop justifying obstinacy and stupidity based on it's own provided sloppy data? Stop trying to show how some hypothetical sentence might be ambiguous if it was written in some way or another... when the original sentence wasn't the least bit hypothetical or ambiguous at all?
Silex Lido Coffeemaker
Like I said, overdecorated. Even American locomotives were considered ornate monstrosities in the 19th C. Can't cite a reference though. I read it in a survey of machine design history about 30 years ago.
The "Lido Decorated" is a perfect example of American meretricious aping of what they thought was European classy. My childhood was filled with beautiful, amusing, Victorianesque crap like that, because parents and grandparents were antique hoarders. I'm glad for the anti-aesthetic education, though.
Simplicity arrived in force in America for the first time in the 50s with the VW. It was a revelation to a kid like me, believe me. An 1800 pound car that you could take the engine out of in 45 minutes easy. The dealer charged $18.95 for engine R&R at the time.
Try something else. Jobs would have thrown that one across the room.
On second thought, I hope not, it is a beautiful piece of kitsch.
"Apple raked in 52% of the overall profits during the quarter, down slightly from 57% in the second calendar quarter [/I]but up from 47% in the year-ago quarter that also had the then-new iPhone 4 on the market."
Let's celebrate anything Apple!
http://theforbittenfruit.ndnlfn.com/...-apple-empire/
5% increase of the entire world's handset profits, not 5% increase over their previous quarter's handset profits. Simple math: 52 − 47 = 5
But it's not simple math. If it was then a 5% increase of your $7.25 hourly salary would be $12.25 but it's really only $7.61 ( i.e. $7.25 * 5% or $7.25 * 0.05 if you don't understand percentages, is $0.36 not $5.00 )
solipsism is right and BTW your second argument isn't comparable (individual vs. world and percent vs. dollar) to the first so you are still wrong. Give it up already and it really is simple math for those who understand math concepts.
Still that isn't a 5% increase. That is a 500 basis points increase. You can't subtract percentages to get the percent increase. 47% * X% = 52%. I'll let you do the math from there.
You are wrong, solipsism is right and the more you dispute it the less intelligent you appear.
Does anybody know that actually this number is down from the second quarter?
"Apple raked in 52% of the overall profits during the quarter, down slightly from 57% in the second calendar quarter [/I]but up from 47% in the year-ago quarter that also had the then-new iPhone 4 on the market."
Let's celebrate anything Apple!
http://theforbittenfruit.ndnlfn.com/...-apple-empire/
Lets use the numbers and periods stated in the article instead of adding other numbers and quarters otherwise the article could go on forever.
The "Lido Decorated" is a perfect example of American meretricious aping of what they thought was European classy. My childhood was filled with beautiful, amusing, Victorianesque crap like that, because parents and grandparents were antique hoarders. I'm glad for the anti-aesthetic education, though.
You might prefer the more austere late-depression offerings from Silex. Wonderfully engineered, the form follows the function exactly, while nevertheless being a beautiful art-deco design. It is built like a tank, and still serves many coffee lovers as an everyday coffee pot because it works very, very well. The engineering is superb.
American companies always tended to build overweight and overdecorated. I can think of a few exceptions. Western Electric telephone sets, the Polaroid Land and SX70 cameras, and my 50s Oster beehive blender that I still use every day. Name another.
I guess you have cited exceptions to your own argument. Thanks for making my point.
There is a possible way to know this: pay attention for 60 years or so waiting for an American company that can compete with German, Swiss, Scandanavian and later Japanese in technical products made for ordinary people in great -- not good! -- design. Have you seen what American television sets looked like in the 50s and 60s? Did Kodak or Argus ever make the equal to the Leica? Why were Olympia (German) portable typewriters so much more beautiful and pleasurable to type on than Royals?
American companies always tended to build overweight and overdecorated. I can think of a few exceptions. Western Electric telephone sets, the Polaroid Land and SX70 cameras, and my 50s Oster beehive blender that I still use every day. Name another.
It's important to get this across, because it is what Jobs, Ive and Apple were/are specifically aiming at: running a company that is based on deep design and integral quality, and spreading it as widely as possible. Everyone sane and not full of Applephobia knows this. What some don't realize is how revolutionary it is that it is coming out of California, which can still be sort of considered part of America.
If you don't see this driving Apple and its current success, then maybe read the biography. If you've read the biography and you still don't get it, there's no hope.
Edit: And why is it so important that it's coming from California? Read What the Dormouse Said by John Markoff. Global currents of cultural change centered around Palo Alto, and Steve Jobs had Fiats, Volkswagens, BMW motorcycles, and the right ethnopharmacology imported from the Hindu Kush and Switzerland to open his senses. And a German father who taught him to look behind the door panels to see how the finish was where no one was supposed to see. Couldn't have come from anywhere else, and it is the tool for the big change in consciousness that everybody was hoping for back then. And it fits in your pants, and even the yuppies get it.
I agree with you. I'd add Cadilac to the list of American products that are terrible designs over the years yet amazingly the name itself is used here to denote quality the way Rolls Royce is. Compare any Cadilac in history with say a BMW or Mercedes from the same era, it is quite a comical exercise.
It certainly helps the bottom line.
I guess you have cited exceptions to your own argument. Thanks for making my point.
Yep, exceptions prove the rule. Name one with the mind share and economic gravity of what Apple hath wrought. ConradJoe gave it a try. I like his second one better, but it's a bad way to make coffee. Another criterion is that the functionality should be above the norm.
Which is why no matter how great the 1940 Ford was, and how long you could make it last, it was still stupidly overweight and primitive when compared to what the Czechs, French and Germans were doing at the time. Why?
No culture of excellence for the consumer was prevalent in America, until Apple showed up. Still nobody here gets it, hardly, but we're making progress. China gets it, thankfully.