Motorola seen as 'likely' to win German patent suit against Apple's iCloud

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
A German court appears poised to rule against Apple and in favor of Motorola over alleged patent infringement related to iCloud.



In a hearing held Friday in the German city of Mannheim, it was a "dreadful" day for Apple, according to Florian Mueller of FOSS Patents. He said at this point in the proceedings, the court does not appear to believe any of Apple's arguments, and he's confident that if the court made a ruling on Friday, it would have been in favor of Motorola Mobility.



Lucky for Apple, a final decision is not scheduled to be delivered until Feb. 3, 2012. But Mueller still feels that Motorola is "fairly likely" to win a patent injunction against Apple's iCloud product.



The lawsuit is related to European Patent 0847654 (B1), entitled "Multiple Pager Status Synchronization System and Method." It is the European equivalent of U.S. Patent No. 5,754,119, which carries the same name.



The lawsuit was actually filed last April, before Apple unveiled iCloud, and originally targeted its predecessor, MobileMe. After iCloud was announced, Motorola argued in court that MobileMe is "integrated" into iCloud, and it's just a name change for the product.



"The issue for Apple here is that it would probably (if not almost certainly) be accused of infringing the patent-in-suit with any products containing the iCloud client software," Mueller wrote. "While the patents covers a synchronization technology that requires a server, and Apple Sales International does not operate the servers (maybe Apple Inc. does, or otherwise some subsidiary other than the Irish distribution organization), all Apple devices containing the client software could be deemed to infringe the patent-in-suit contributorily."



Because iCloud is now integrated into so many Apple products, including iOS devices and new Macs running OS X 10.7 Lion, Apple has asked the court to set a bail of 2 billion euro, or $2.7 billion U.S. The bail amount is meant to ensure that the defendant will be compensated if an injunction is put in place and later overturned. In this case, it would apply if the court were to place an injunction barring the sale of Apple products, only for the decision to be changed by an appellate court.







"The court was wondering whether that hefty amount truly reflects the economic damages Apple would suffer from enforcement, given that the iCloud is only one Apple offering and doesn't correspond to the entire value of its products," he wrote. "But Apple's lawyers insisted that an enforcement against its product sales in Germany could result in damages of that magnitude."



Earlier this month, Motorola also won a default judgment in German court though that decision was portrayed as "procedural" by the company, and having "nothing to do with the merits of the case." Experts have said they expect the injunction to be suspended.



Apple's legal battles with Motorola, which extend across the globe, have taken on an even greater meaning since August, when Google announced it plans to acquire Motorola mobility for $12.5 billion. Motorola shareholders voted to approve the proposed deal on Thursday, though the acquisition is still pending regulatory approval, and is expected to be finalized by early 2012.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 51
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,544member
    Lucky Apple were awarded the location patent which will apply to every smartphone product motorola make then isn't it.



    Also, Activesync from Microsoft would also infringe this patent?
  • Reply 2 of 51
    LOL. Apple has a ways to go to reinforce it, but good point



    Motorola is going to suck the air out of Google. The RAZR, their premier offering through 2012, is getting negative reviews. Nice pixelated display. I will enjoy listening to Google's earnings announcements when they talk about their huge money losing hardware business and 20k new non-search employees
  • Reply 3 of 51
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Excerpt from patent:



    As the acceptance of selective call communication devices, or pagers, including two-way pagers, continues to grow, and as their affordability continues to improve, some users are acquiring pagers which have a same selective call address. Pagers come in different form factors or colors to complement a user's attire. Thus, the user carries one pager at one time with one apparel outfit and another pager at another time with another outfit. For example, a neon colored belt worn pager is used for a day at the beach, and a black and gold pen pager with a business suit is used for an evening business meeting.







    I guess it depends of what the meaning of "Pager" is.
  • Reply 4 of 51
    Apple could always not offer iCloud in Germany.
  • Reply 5 of 51
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,275member
    So now Motorola owns the right to sync something with a server? Well, I guess Android users better get ready to kiss your maps app goodbye when Apple comes after you.
  • Reply 6 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post


    LOL. Apple has a ways to go to reinforce it, but good point



    Motorola is going to suck the air out of Google. The RAZR, their premier offering through 2012, is getting negative reviews. Nice pixelated display. I will enjoy listening to Google's earnings announcements when they talk about their huge money losing hardware business and 20k new non-search employees



    you're confusing the RAZR (from 2004) that was a load of crap with the DROID RAZR (2012) which is actually not bad. Its supposed to have a screen just as good or better than the Galaxy SII.
  • Reply 7 of 51
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Apple could always not offer iCloud in Germany.



    The thing that is irritating is that as Apple refines things that have been done by many other companies without complaints from the likes of Motorola, and solely because Apple finally makes it just work without any hoops to jump through the patent trolls come out from under their rock. iCloud is basically just the Internet with a new name and user interface. The Internet is not patentable.
  • Reply 8 of 51
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 18,462member
    It may be getting to the point that all the parties beat each other up enough to realize the only good decision is call a truce. These suits aren't benefiting the mobile industry or consumers in any way.



    Everyone's made their points:

    -Don't copy my look and packaging. At least be unique in design and presentation.

    -If you're using a FRAND-encumbered technology, approach the holder and arrange for licensing.

    -I have patents you need, you have patents I need. Rather than suing each other, let's make a deal.

    -If a patent troll is attacking one of us, understand you may be next on the list. Let's coordinate.
  • Reply 9 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Apple could always not offer iCloud in Germany.



  • Reply 10 of 51
    erioerio Posts: 16member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    The thing that is irritating is that as Apple refines things that have been done by many other companies without complaints from the likes of Motorola, and solely because Apple finally makes it just work without any hoops to jump through the patent trolls come out from under their rock. iCloud is basically just the Internet with a new name and user interface. The Internet is not patentable.



    I think this is about synchronizing technology, not internet. Could someone out there explain why Motorola is after Apple, yet not Dropbox, Sugarsync, and all other similar services?
  • Reply 11 of 51
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 18,462member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post


    The RAZR, their premier offering through 2012, is getting negative reviews. Nice pixelated display. I will enjoy listening to Google's earnings announcements when they talk about their huge money losing hardware business and 20k new non-search employees



    I don't know whose reviews you found negative.



    From Engadget's review wrap-up:



    "So has Motorola succeeded in reclaiming the prestige that once belonged to the RAZR brand? Unequivocally, yes -- the handset is just physically stunning. It's thinner than almost any phone on the market and makes no sacrifices to attain its slim physique. It's solidly constructed from premium materials like diamond-cut aluminum, Gorilla Glass and a sheet of super-slick Kevlar. Few phones out there can even be put in the same category when it comes to build quality. It's not the most ergonomically sound handset on the market, but for those who cherish form over function (the very targets of a so-called fashion device), that's a sacrifice worth making."



    EDIT: I just noticed you claimed the RAZR as Moto's premier phone for next year. Rumors abound of one and perhaps two quad-core phones from Motorola as early as three/four months from now. I don't think they're sitting back and depending on the RAZR for 2012.
  • Reply 12 of 51
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by erio View Post


    I think this is about synchronizing technology, not internet. Could someone out there explain why Motorola is after Apple, yet not Dropbox, Sugarsync, and all other similar services?





    Right but that is how the Internet works. I put a file on a server which is attached to the Internet and that file becomes accessible to anyone I give permission to, from wherever they are in the world, so long as they have a connection to the Internet. The words I just typed are now synchronized with everyone's computer as they read them. And every subscriber to this thread simultaneously received an email notification.
  • Reply 13 of 51
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,770member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Right but that is how the Internet works. I put a file on a server which is attached to the Internet and that file becomes accessible to anyone I give permission to, from wherever they are in the world, so long as they have a connection to the Internet. The words I just typed are now synchronized with everyone's computer as they read them. And every subscriber to this thread simultaneously received an email notification.



    I think the guy is wrong. I think Apple will be just fine when the ruling happens on this case. Simply connecting to the internet at all would be an infringement.
  • Reply 14 of 51
    tylerk36tylerk36 Posts: 1,037member
    They can't win against Apple in the US so they go to Europe hoping that the German Government will take sides against Apple. All these law suits on other countries. What a poor way to try and slow Apple down. I imagine that Apple has a huge Leal team and spends millions upon millions of dollars to that legal team.



    Motorola.



    Apple attitude towards Motorola and Samsung.
  • Reply 15 of 51
    tylerk36tylerk36 Posts: 1,037member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Apple could always not offer iCloud in Germany.



    Agreed. If the German courts want to cause major issues for apple then Apple can always pull out of germany and any other country in the EU.
  • Reply 16 of 51
    Apple is pushing for a huge bond on Moto's part because it has an ace in the hole.



    They are daring Moto to move ahead.



    I love it.
  • Reply 17 of 51
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 18,462member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Apple is pushing for a huge bond on Moto's part because it has an ace in the hole.



    They are daring Moto to move ahead.



    I love it.



    Other reports indicate the judge doesn't agree with Apple's bond request valuation. Moto will move ahead. Apple will make a settlement offer that likely includes some exchange of IP, and both will settle their differences, at least for now. That's my opinion anyway.
  • Reply 18 of 51
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post


    Agreed. If the German courts want to cause major issues for apple then Apple can always pull out of germany and any other country in the EU.



    Of course they can. What do 500 million affluent customers matter anyway.
  • Reply 19 of 51
    You play with the bull, you get the horns. I have no sympathy for a company who is trying to patent the black rectangle. All this patent madness just needs to stop.
  • Reply 20 of 51
    conradjoeconradjoe Posts: 1,887member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    Of course they can. What do 500 million affluent customers matter anyway.



    The EU needs Apple more than Apple needs the EU.



    Or was that Samsung?
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