Why are apple selling the 4g model in the UK?
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad
Why on earth are apple selling the 4G model in the UK?
No one in the UK, or even Europe, can connect to any of the European LTE networks. The small print does say that you can connect to USA networks, is this even true? Are the LTE chips dual frequency or single frequency, ie can you connect to both AT&T and Verizon LTE whilst roaming?
To add insult to injury, Apple then try to get you to take out a data contract.
A tiny footnote does say that 4G is not available everywhere. It is a shame that it does not say (in bold text) "Please be aware that 4G capability will not work in your territory- EVER".
There are going to be a lot of rather annoyed customers...
Why on earth are apple selling the 4G model in the UK?
No one in the UK, or even Europe, can connect to any of the European LTE networks. The small print does say that you can connect to USA networks, is this even true? Are the LTE chips dual frequency or single frequency, ie can you connect to both AT&T and Verizon LTE whilst roaming?
To add insult to injury, Apple then try to get you to take out a data contract.
A tiny footnote does say that 4G is not available everywhere. It is a shame that it does not say (in bold text) "Please be aware that 4G capability will not work in your territory- EVER".
There are going to be a lot of rather annoyed customers...
Comments
Why on earth are apple selling the 4G model in the UK?
Yeah, heaven forbid anyone in Europe wants to use 3G. Because certainly no one uses 3G at all.
The small print does say that you can connect to USA networks, is this even true?
Of course it is; it's the same device sold everywhere.
can you connect to both AT&T and Verizon LTE whilst roaming?
No, they use different frequencies.
Apple then try to get you to take out a data contract.
And since you have never had to actually do that when buying any iPad, it's moot. Heaven forbid Apple tries to sell you something that goes SPECIFICALLY with the model of iPad you're buying and is the purpose for its existence.
"Please be aware that 4G capability will not work in your territory- EVER".
How do you know that?
There are going to be a lot of rather annoyed customers…
Who… get to use 3G just like they always have.
Yeah, heaven forbid anyone in Europe wants to use 3G. Because certainly no one uses 3G at all.
Of course it is; it's the same device sold everywhere.
No, they use different frequencies.
And since you have never had to actually do that when buying any iPad, it's moot. Heaven forbid Apple tries to sell you something that goes SPECIFICALLY with the model of iPad you're buying and is the purpose for its existence.
How do you know that?
Who? get to use 3G just like they always have.
Thanks for the reply TS
At the time of posting I was unaware that the only options were wifi or wifi+4G, for some reason I thought that a wifi+3g option was available.
Never-the-less I consider that Apple are misleading people with regard to the capabilities that they will experience in their respective territories.
On closer inspection it seems that the version being sold in the Uk is the At&T one that it say will also work in Canada (from that I infer that the Verizon version only works in the USA).
Apple say things like " Wi-Fi + 4G keeps you connected to the Internet using a fast mobile data connection when Wi-Fi isn?t available". To the lay person the use of words like "fast mobile data connection" suggest something more than the bog standard HSPDA which has been available in the UK for the last 5 years. Do other manufacturers still refer to 3.5g as being "fast"?
Apple probably have a greater insight into the UK's proposed LTE frequencies than me but given that only the 800 and 2600Mhz ranges will be up for auction (with 1800Mhz possibly being used as a stop gap) it is reasonable to assume that the iPad will never achieve 4g, or rather, LTE speeds in the UK. It is also unlikely that it will not do so anywhere else in the world (bar America).
Apple customers trust Apple and there will be many of them who opt to upgrade because they believe that their cellular connection will be 4G.
All Apple had to was say, BTW you cant use 4G where you live but you can have variants of "3.5g"
I do hope that they clarify things immediately, to that end I have asked my local Trading Standards office to look into it.
I was unaware that the only options were wifi or wifi+4G, for some reason I thought that a wifi+3g option was available.
It is. 4G does 3G, too, just as 3G always did 2G before it. You can't access LTE, but the chip does everything else. And when you can't get 3G, you'll be able to get EDGE. And GPRS without EDGE.
Never-the-less I consider that Apple are misleading people with regard to the capabilities that they will experience in their respective territories.
They could be much clearer about the fact that you'd have to go to North America to get LTE, but I see that none* of your carriers say anything about it, either.
O2 makes no mention of the new iPad whatsoever.
3 says their network is a 3G network, making no mention of the new iPad at all, again.
Orange says nothing about what their network is and also doesn't mention the new iPad.
Vodaphone, surprisingly, says exactly what you're after. They're the only ones. They're also the only ones to even acknowledge the new iPad exists.
…it is reasonable to assume that the iPad will never achieve 4g, or rather, LTE speeds in the UK.
This one, probably. Unless the UK is auctioning off the same frequencies as those which it supports already. In the future, however, I'd imagine it'll support as much as it possibly can.
*None said on launch day. Vodaphone's apparently the only one to have changed their site at all since then.
It is. 4G does 3G, too, just as 3G always did 2G before it. You can't access LTE, but the chip does everything else. And when you can't get 3G, you'll be able to get EDGE. And GPRS without EDGE.
They could be much clearer about the fact that you'd have to go to North America to get LTE, but I see that none* of your carriers say anything about it, either.
O2 makes no mention of the new iPad whatsoever.
3 says their network is a 3G network, making no mention of the new iPad at all, again.
Orange says nothing about what their network is and also doesn't mention the new iPad.
Vodaphone, surprisingly, says exactly what you're after. They're the only ones. They're also the only ones to even acknowledge the new iPad exists.
This one, probably. Unless the UK is auctioning off the same frequencies as those which it supports already. In the future, however, I'd imagine it'll support as much as it possibly can.
*None said on launch day. Vodaphone's apparently the only one to have changed their site at all since then.
Thanks for the follow up- IMO- ultimately it is the responsibility of the vendor to clarify the situation and not the carriers that they are earning commission from. That said, in Australia the carriers are reputedly dropping the 4g moniker, fully aware that failure to do so will confuse and frustrate customers.
I agree that the only carrier that has gone out of it's way to be honest is Vodafone- they just call it the new ipad (omitting the words WIFI+4G) and stress that fast network speeds refers to HSPA, HSPA+, and DC-HSDPA. In the same print they mention that LTE will only work on AT&T and in Canada.
T-mobile now carry the ipad and are as bad as Apple, they use the term 4G but make no mention of the lack of 4g.
Orange- you click on ipad, assuming it's the new ipad but it takes you to the ipad2
3- same as Vodafone, they call it the wifi+4g, mentioning 4g support only in USA and Canada
I have since looked at some of the other national apple sites, the same obfuscation is constant in the countries selling the New iPad, bar Hong Kong which only lists the WIFI only model.
All Apple need to do is call it the something like the WIFI+GSM, WIFI+HSPD+ or WIFI+3.5G model until they support the frequencies used in those territories.
If I were to mistakenly buy one today for £650 only to discover that in 6 months they release the New iPad 0.5 which supports my territory I would be more than slightly irked.
Uh, what? Apple made the iPad. Apple owns the iPad. Apple has full control over the distribution of the iPad. Carriers pay Apple for the privilege of having the iPad on their network.
They're equally responsible.
That said, in Australia the carriers are reputedly dropping the 4g moniker, fully aware that failure to do so will confuse and frustrate customers.
So they're just going to "the new G" instead of numerical differentiation? That's one situation in which I fail to see how it could possibly be good for consumers.
All Apple need to do is call it the something like the WIFI+GSM, WIFI+HSPD+ or WIFI+3.5G model until they support the frequencies used in those territories.
But that's not true. Why bother calling it a different name to obfuscate features. Apple didn't sell the "iPhone 3G" here as the "iPhone No Signal" when it came out, AT&T was just forced to tell potential customers that they had no service where we lived and couldn't legally sell us iPhones.
?in 6 months they release the New iPad 0.5?
Well, this won't happen, so you'll be fine. And you'd be 'irked' about something from six months later? The life cycle is only a year.
Thanks for the follow up- IMO- ultimately it is the responsibility of the vendor to clarify the situation and not the carriers that they are earning commission from.[/QUITE]
Uh, what? Apple made the iPad. Apple owns the iPad. Apple has full control over the distribution of the iPad. Carriers pay Apple for the privilege of having the iPad on their network.
They're equally responsible.
So they're just going to "the new G" instead of numerical differentiation? That's one situation in which I fail to see how it could possibly be good for consumers.
But that's not true. Why bother calling it a different name to obfuscate features. Apple didn't sell the "iPhone 3G" here as the "iPhone No Signal" when it came out, AT&T was just forced to tell potential customers that they had no service where we lived and couldn't legally sell us iPhones.
Well, this won't happen, so you'll be fine. And you'd be 'irked' about something from six months later? The life cycle is only a year.
Yet again, thanks TS
Evidently I phrased my point badly-
My point about the vendor being ultimately responsible was in reference to the direct sale of the ipad by Apple via the UK site. The commission point was about Apple earning money for recommending third party carriers. I would imagine that Apple exercise a degree of control over how they are marketed and could recommend that the 4G issue is clarified. In this case it would seem that Apple are not overly worried about customers being confused, and if that it is the case they therefore have no incentive to stipulate that the carriers explain things to customers.
Fortunately some cof those carriers, acting as vendors, are aware that they will have to field calls from disgruntled customers, and thus are being upfront now). An example being the case in Australia.
We seem to agree that the situation is not ideal and likely to result in people purchasing products that are not quite what they expected. If customers purchase the items through third parties they may well blame the third party- if they buy them directly from Apple then they will have little incentive to ever buy another Apple product. If Apple were cash poor and had creditors knocking at the door I could understand the risk of foregoing future sales in order to bolster today's bank balances.
The naming issue- in principle i have no issue with the name provided that the proceeding line clarifies things- to date no one has done this. The best description/naming compromise has been by Vodafone UK (IMO).
Sorry- don't understand your point about the iPhone 3g and AT&T,- beyond my radar/ken
With regard to product cycle- this is not set in stone and I would be surprised if they waited a whole year to release "global" 4G devices. The longer they wait the more likely it is that foreign customers will feel alienated and look elsewhere. Gone are the days where punters wait patiently. The majority of Apple's cutomers have access to "4G", just not the American-centric frequencies.
The issue of being irked- Most customers understand what they are getting- they might be mildly frustrated at what they see as minor limitations but in general these are not key sales points and as such they are willing to live with them. Many customers will see the two strongest selling points of the ipad as being the screen and 4G. We live in global world where it is difficult to tell if the advice/sales patter is global or specific to your territory. If the issue of being irked is specifically aimed at me, I do not want a pad, regardless of who makes it. I have a 13.3" carbon fibre i7 laptop and I am very happy with that.tnx.
The commission point was about Apple earning money for recommending third party carriers.
Oh, do they, though? WIth carriers stumbling over one another to support Apple devices and with Apple specifically promoting all carriers on their site, I'd think there wouldn't be any money that changed hands in that regard, but I could be wrong.
I would imagine that Apple exercise a degree of control over how they are marketed and could recommend that the 4G issue is clarified.
Okay, I see. Yeah, you're right about that. Since Apple has a virtual monopoly on advertising for their devices, they'd be able to dictate what is said and how it's said, so yeah, Apple's at fault for being unclear on their availability of speeds. I'm sure they'll fix that soon, what with the UK (for one) being known for going after advertising that is wrong or confusing.
Sorry- don't understand your point about the iPhone 3g and AT&T,- beyond my radar/ken
I mean to say that there's no reason not to call the iPad Wi-Fi+4G by that name, despite an unavailability of one of its features. If Apple had to rename a device in an area because one of its features was unavailable, the "iPhone 3G" would have had to be called the "iPhone No Service", as AT&T had no coverage where I live at that time.
Anyway, this would be moot if the description of coverage was more clear.
With regard to product cycle- this is not set in stone and I would be surprised if they waited a whole year to release "global" 4G devices.
I suppose that's possible; we'll just have to keep watching LTE chip life cycles.
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Fortunately some of those carriers, acting as vendors, are aware that they will have to field calls from disgruntled customers, and thus are being upfront now). An example being the case in Australia.
The issue of being irked- Most customers understand what they are getting- they might be mildly frustrated at what they see as minor limitations but in general these are not key sales points and as such they are willing to live with them. Many customers will see the two strongest selling points of the ipad as being the screen and 4G. We live in global world where it is difficult to tell if the advice/sales patter is global or specific to your territory. If the issue of being irked is specifically aimed at me, I do not want a pad, regardless of who makes it. I have a 13.3" carbon fibre i7 laptop and I am very happy with that.tnx.
It's being reported that the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (a government agency) is "irked" with Apple's marketing and sale of the 4G iPad. It says Apple "infringes four sections of the Australian Consumer Law, and will tomorrow make an application to the Federal Court in Melbourne for an injunction against the US company".
The Verge says "You can buy an "iPad Wi-Fi + 4G" model anywhere in the world, but it's only on AT&T in the US or Bell, Rogers or Telus in Canada that you'll be able to enjoy actual LTE connectivity. Needless to say, that can mislead (and ultimately frustrate) users who might reasonably have expected a product with "4G" in its name to connect to their local 4G network"
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/aust...-1226311704646