Would a micro or mini USB been so hard? Why do we need yet ANOTHER non standard data connector that does exactly what all the other STANDARD connectors do?
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Originally Posted by chabig
How is it that you're so intimately familiar with the specifications and capabilities of this new mystery connector?
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Because Dock Connector 2 will do more than gimped MicroUSB ever could, probably.
So USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 can connect every other kind of device in the world EXCEPT Apple products? Why? Does Apple use some secret faster-than-light subspace transmission mode that requires their connectors to think differently? Need more pins than USB 2.0? Guess what - USB 3.0 has more pins.
Everything coming out or going into the iPortables is either digital data or analog audio . None of which requires an exotic non-standard connector.
Why does it matter? Because when Apple abandons it non-standard connectors (ex 30 pin) it orphans a boatload of devices and cables made for that standard. And it means that you cannot use the same charging and sync cable that your sue for all your other devices - leading to more consumer confusion, needless duplication, and e-waste. This is why the EU has made micro USB the required standard connector for all phones.
I'm hoping they've designed the new connector in a way that lets them later upgrade to Thunderbolt without again changing the connector. That would presumably require using some pins to identify the electrical protocol. The same pins could also serve as power and ground, since they don't change while the connector is plugged in.
So USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 can connect every other kind of device in the world EXCEPT Apple products? Why? Does Apple use some secret faster-than-light subspace transmission mode that requires their connectors to think differently? Need more pins than USB 2.0? Guess what - USB 3.0 has more pins.
Everything coming out or going into the iPortables is either digital data or analog audio . None of which requires an exotic non-standard connector.
Why does it matter? Because when Apple abandons it non-standard connectors (ex 30 pin) it orphans a boatload of devices and cables made for that standard. And it means that you cannot use the same charging and sync cable that your sue for all your other devices - leading to more consumer confusion, needless duplication, and e-waste. This is why the EU has made micro USB the required standard connector for all phones.
I think what you're forgetting (and what a lot of people are forgetting), is that this plug is for iOS devices not PC's. iOS devices and Android devices are a new platform that is more or less separate from regular PCs in the same way as the original PC's were a platform independent of, and separate from the mainframes and other computers that preceded them. Apple has between 80% and 98% of this market sewn up with iOS.
This means that Apple making it's own "proprietary" connector for these devices is quite a different thing from them making a proprietary connector for their laptops or desktops. This is no different from IBM's proprietary connectors in the early desktop market in that sense and really isn't the big deal everyone is making out. Sure, technically it's proprietary, but in another way it's the new standard as well. If the market was divided 50-50 between Android and iOS there might be an argument for standard connectors, although with different OS's it's hard to see a need even then.
Most of the arguments for "standardisation" given the situation the mobile market is in today just don't really apply IMO.
I think what you're forgetting (and what a lot of people are forgetting), is that this plug is for iOS devices not PC's. iOS devices and Android devices are a new platform that is more or less separate from regular PCs in the same way as the original PC's were a platform independent of, and separate from the mainframes and other computers that preceded them. Apple has between 80% and 98% of this market sewn up with iOS.
This means that Apple making it's own "proprietary" connector for these devices is quite a different thing from them making a proprietary connector for their laptops or desktops. This is no different from IBM's proprietary connectors in the early desktop market in that sense and really isn't the big deal everyone is making out. Sure, technically it's proprietary, but in another way it's the new standard as well. If the market was divided 50-50 between Android and iOS there might be an argument for standard connectors, although with different OS's it's hard to see a need even then.
Most of the arguments for "standardisation" given the situation the mobile market is in today just don't really apply IMO.
Except that every other manufacturer of cell phones has adopted the MicroUSB standard to comply with very sensible EU requirements. Every manufacturer - smart phone, tablet, eReader - everyone EXCEPT Apple. But somehow, Apple has magic data that can't be transmitted in standard cables.
The whole point was to avoid all the silliness and waste that proprietary cables caused in the early PC and cell phone markets. The logic and the law of the USB standard has nothing to do with market domination.
The now obsolete 30 pin Apple connector is a prime example of exactly the kind of waste and market confusion the EU standard was set up to avoid. New Apple compatible products will now need two dock connectors to cover the market. OR adapters. 3 if they want to be compatible with Android devices. And now I need additional cables and adapters if I want to travel with my Apple products. What about business users who may have a mix of old & new Apple devices plus a blackberry, Android, or other USB device?
So USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 can connect every other kind of device in the world EXCEPT Apple products? Why? Does Apple use some secret faster-than-light subspace transmission mode that requires their connectors to think differently? Need more pins than USB 2.0? Guess what - USB 3.0 has more pins.
Everything coming out or going into the iPortables is either digital data or analog audio . None of which requires an exotic non-standard connector.
Why does it matter? Because when Apple abandons it non-standard connectors (ex 30 pin) it orphans a boatload of devices and cables made for that standard. And it means that you cannot use the same charging and sync cable that your sue for all your other devices - leading to more consumer confusion, needless duplication, and e-waste. This is why the EU has made micro USB the required standard connector for all phones.
I think Dock Connector and FireWire were both supported pretty well by the industry. This won't be any different.
So USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 can connect every other kind of device in the world EXCEPT Apple products? Why?
Maybe you've forgotten what the other end of the Dock Connector cable looks like.
…it orphans a boatload of devices and cables made for that standard.
Simultaneously ensuring that every. single. device. that works with iDevices is MADE to work with iDevices. Use a standard port and people suddenly think they can plug in their 2.5" external hard drive, spinning fan with a bendy neck, or humping dog.
And it means that you cannot use the same charging and sync cable that your sue for all your other devices - leading to more consumer confusion, needless duplication, and e-waste.
What other devices? That's the point of what Apple makes.
And if the EU wanted to do something important, they'd fix their economy they'd standardize connectivity for cameras and camcorders, charging for those devices, or they'd work to stop theft of personal information (though I get that doesn't register with them very much since governments do it to excess) by companies.
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
The whole point was to avoid all the silliness and waste that proprietary cables caused in the early PC and cell phone markets. The logic and the law of the USB standard has nothing to do with market domination.
Except that every other manufacturer of cell phones has adopted the MicroUSB standard to comply with very sensible EU requirements. Every manufacturer - smart phone, tablet, eReader - everyone EXCEPT Apple. But somehow, Apple has magic data that can't be transmitted in standard cables.
The whole point was to avoid all the silliness and waste that proprietary cables caused in the early PC and cell phone markets. The logic and the law of the USB standard has nothing to do with market domination.
The now obsolete 30 pin Apple connector is a prime example of exactly the kind of waste and market confusion the EU standard was set up to avoid. New Apple compatible products will now need two dock connectors to cover the market. OR adapters. 3 if they want to be compatible with Android devices. And now I need additional cables and adapters if I want to travel with my Apple products. What about business users who may have a mix of old & new Apple devices plus a blackberry, Android, or other USB device?
Maybe you've forgotten what the other end of the Dock Connector cable looks like.
Simultaneously ensuring that every. single. device. that works with iDevices is MADE to work with iDevices. Use a standard port and people suddenly think they can plug in their 2.5" external hard drive, spinning fan with a bendy neck, or humping dog.
What other devices? That's the point of what Apple makes.
And if the EU wanted to do something important, they'd fix their economy they'd standardize connectivity for cameras and camcorders, charging for those devices, or they'd work to stop theft of personal information (though I get that doesn't register with them very much since governments do it to excess) by companies.
But USB's obsolescence does.
I honestly don't think he is worth that much effort, but good post.
Are there any examples of reversible port interfaces for data cables?
Just the Ethernet mentioned above where now days switches and routers auto detect crossover or straight through cables but that isn't physically reversed just the pin outs.
As an American, European plugs are terrifying to look at, as well as use. I dunno about that continental Europe plug. It's just creepy. I used the British Isles' plug when I was in Ireland, and my stars, I thought I was going to get electrocuted every time I plugged something in…
I'd go further and suggest it may be no more than a reversible USB 2.0 connection - what we see as 16 pins could be in reality eight pins, with each pin showing on both faces.
The 8 pins themselves could be carrying only four pairs of signals, each pair consisting of the same signal on the left hand side and right hand side, that way it doesn't matter which way the connector is plugged into the port, just like on the MagSafe.
I believe this is the nature of the connector, after all the current 30 pin connector leads into the 4 pins of a USB plug.
Those other 26 pins are either legacy ports no longer used or possibly direct audio in and out signals utilised by docks and accessories.
Plugin USB audio adapters can be purchased for one or two British pounds on eBay so it won't be expensive for audio dock manufacturers to incorporate the necessary circuitry into future docks, if they don't do so already.
Good points. The circular plugs are usually only two elements though, aside from stereo audio jacks, but even those exhibit the problem with multi-pinned circular jack plugs. As you insert or unplug them the power for one element can touch another pin which can cause nasty problems (think unplugging a 1/4" headphone jack while powered up, ouch!).
Yup. I imagine one could construct a multi-ring connector where each ring is progressively shorter/longer than the next (or at least protective-earth would be longer than the others), but it might be too expensive to make the connectors.
The usual configuration of plugs that are not reversible is that there is some visual indication of how they are to be oriented. In the case of the 30 pin dock you have to look for the quite tiny icon and insert it with that pointing up in relation to the screen, subtle but easy enough for those not visually impaired. In the case of USB (as in the above picture) there are two visual indications that you just need to learn to look for.
Theoretically, yes. Ideally, all USB cabling would have the USB relief on the "up" side (notwithstanding the issues with vertical USB sockets), so that it would be easy to orient by feeling, but as I you note Apple only prints the logo and, for example, Western Digital has its company logo in relief on the other side and on some cables—such as the one I got with my My Book Elements—on the side where the trident should be (although the one I got with my newest MyBook Studio has the trident on the correct side, and it's white-very nice!).
Also thanks for the reminder about the Europlug and the Schuko although the later I believe does use an offset optional ground, but in both cases those plugs should not be considered modern or safe by any definition so they fall within my original class along with the 1930s lamp cords.
Well, the standard/original configuration has two earth "springs" on either side. Most actual plugs are dual purpose and accept the original earth configuration and the French one where the receptacle has an offset earth pin. And I agree that neither is especially modern; I do find it fascinating, however, the room for usability/safety design there is in such an everyday item as the power plug.
Are there any examples of reversible port interfaces for data cables?
Well, that depends. Does the iPod shuffle data cable count? Obviously there are a few cables for fibre-optic signalling that don't really care (the most common is probably mini-TOSLINK), and coax Ethernet. All/most of these are rotationally symmetric though (possibly excepting locking mechanisms, if any exist).
A lot of electrical plugs are symmetrical (thanks to AC for that). Here is the non-grounded Europlug which works is almost all European countries:
The Europlug design appeared first in 1963 but it looks like it could be an early 1900s design. The round connector is just illogical because it is much more difficult to create a solid connection between the male and female receptacle which is why these days in any high power condition they always use blade design to achieve greater surface contact.
As an American, European plugs are terrifying to look at, as well as use. I dunno about that continental Europe plug. It's just creepy. I used the British Isles' plug when I was in Ireland, and my stars, I thought I was going to get electrocuted every time I plugged something in…
How? The British power plug is the safest (electrically) design you can get. It's solid, it is fused, and the mechanism connects ground before live and neutral. The plug is solid enough that you can't tug it out of the socket, and the socket itself has barriers to prevent insertion of non-plugs (e.g., forks) into the socket.
Not so pleasant at night if you walk on the plug though.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; } Why didn't they use MagSafe technology? That would have been awesome without having to push and pull. Just have it snap into place. If Steve were alive, that's what he would have asked the engineers to do.
Could you imagine if Tim quadruppled down on security? I would probably have an iPhone (6th generation) in my hand right now
As Apple gets bigger, this is inevitable. There's only so much they can do to prevent any potential leaks from suppliers. From here on out we can forget about never seeing any aspect of a device until its officially revealed. Those days are over, especially when every launch will sell in the tens of millions and they need to get a shitload manufactured and stockpiled ahead of time.
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Originally Posted by JCC
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; } Why didn't they use MagSafe technology? That would have been awesome without having to push and pull. Just have it snap into place. If Steve were alive, that's what he would have asked the engineers to do.
The 'If Steve was alive' shit is getting beyond ridiculous, I find it disgusting and despicable, to try and shove words into his mouth while being utterly ignorant of the context of how this was desinged. And no, he wouldn't have, because a magsafe would not work on such a light device. If you gave it 5 seconds of thought before suggesting that you would have also realized it. The magnets would have to be INSANELY weak so as to disconnect without pulling the device, and having magnets that weak would create a whole host of issues, including inadvertant disconnection. It only works with laptops because the weight threshhold is there. Also, did you maybe stop to think that the current magsafe is power ONLY. This cable will be transmitting data/syncing, etc. Do you really think its such a great idea to have it so easily disconnect while transferring data? Do you not realize all the potential problems it would cause? Do you still know for a fact this is what Steve would have asked the engineers to do? The guy liked to push the limits, but he was also practical, and this would be in no way, shape, or form practical. Stop putting words into a dead guy's mouth.
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
They're not, though.
Since you've obviously used a USB port at least once before in your life, I can't see how you can say this with a straight face.
And there you go again TS, replying in a sarcastic, condascending way to someone who just happens to be right, while you're wrong. USB ports/connectors are reversible since when? Not a single one I've ever used. He is absolutely right in what he's saying, and you're wrong. No need for your sarcasm.
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Originally Posted by Mac_128
This can't be the final design. Doubt this is real. Apple would never create an insertable tab connector like that. There's nothing elegant about it. Unless this is a post Steve decision. Way too easy to break off. Now perhaps if this were intended to be housed inside some kind of shell al la USB, et al ... But take a look at any Apple product, aside from standard audio connectors there is nothing like this ... This has PC written all over it ...
I assumed this was a parody post from the 1st line, then realized maybe it wasn't. You came to all these incredible conclusions after looking at the device for 5 seconds? Do you think Apple's design/engineering team are utterly incompetent, and they havent thought through a whole host of issues while making this? The probably started shortly after the iPhone 4 launch, so more than 2 years, and some extremely skilled, intelligent, and motivated people have spent thousands of hours considering/building a shit ton of options. Why not give them at least the benefit of the doubt, and wait until the full product is shown? But clearly, you know better, a random messageboard poster, after seeing a photo of what may or may not be the connector on the internet, and knowing absolutely nothing about it. I sometimes wonder how some of you function in the real world, with the kind of conclusions you make based on zero background info, and the utter lack of humility you exhibit with your matter of fact 'this is shit' pronouncements, based on, again, absolutely nothing. Well done.
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Originally Posted by Mac_128
Seriously? The dock connector is very robust. It's a structurally engineered ridgid metal enclosure, the pins are inside. It slips pretty tightly into a port with guides to align the tab that inserts, fairly shallowly I might add, into the slot.
This has been an Intuitive design pattern all the way back to the Apple II.
Ever notice how PC connectors have the male pins on the device, the female on the cable, so when a cable is inevitably pulled out or the incorrect plug jammed into the port, the pins on the device are broken off requiring a major repair, instead of the apple way where the pins are broken on the cable side, requiring only a new cable?
They aren't going to change that philosophy. This is not about selling a product with or without cameras ...
So they should keep the current connector forever, a connector launched in 2003 where the tech landscape/requirement bore absolutely no resemblance to what it is now. I wonder where Apple would be if they followed your 'philosophy' of never moving things forward.
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Originally Posted by macslut
The next time my girlfriend grabs her iPhone and starts to run off while it's still plugged in, can I call you and have you explain how Magsafe would be pointless to her?
This one is too easy. The only products in existence today that have a magsafe connector are Apple's laptops. What does your girlfriend do when she has to use, oh I dont know, every other thing in existence that relies on a power cable? If your girlfriend consistently 'runs off' with things that are plugged in, I think there's bigger issues than the connector itself. Strange how I've never once managed to do that after 4 years of owning an iPhone (or any phone) and plugging/unplugging it at least 2-3 times a day. A more logical solution is for you to explain to her that she can perhaps take half a second to determine if the phone is plugged in or not before grabbing and running off with it. Magsafe on a phone would have a ton of issues and would be impractical, just check the beginning of my post. Because your gf does something extremely rare/strange, does not mean Apple should implement a solution that would cause a whole host of other problems.
Whew. Sorry, had to get some of that our of my system. SOme of the responses here blow my mind. If I had a nickel for everytime Apple became even more massively successful after people like you guys on exclaimed they were doing it all wrong, based on limited imagination and limited (or non-existent) understand of the product...
How? The British power plug is the safest (electrically) design you can get. It's solid, it is fused, and the mechanism connects ground before live and neutral. The plug is solid enough that you can't tug it out of the socket, and the socket itself has barriers to prevent insertion of non-plugs (e.g., forks) into the socket.
I was thinking primarily the visible and audible arc of blue electricity that appears when you have a plug halfway in.
Originally Posted by Slurpy
And there you go again TS, replying in a sarcastic, condascending way to someone who just happens to be right, while you're wrong. USB ports/connectors are reversible since when? Not a single one I've ever used. He is absolutely right in what he's saying, and you're wrong. No need for your sarcasm.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; } It is a 9 pin connector according to ifixit.com. The metal collar is the grounding pin.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
Would a micro or mini USB been so hard? Why do we need yet ANOTHER non standard data connector that does exactly what all the other STANDARD connectors do?
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Originally Posted by chabig
How is it that you're so intimately familiar with the specifications and capabilities of this new mystery connector?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Because Dock Connector 2 will do more than gimped MicroUSB ever could, probably.
So USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 can connect every other kind of device in the world EXCEPT Apple products? Why? Does Apple use some secret faster-than-light subspace transmission mode that requires their connectors to think differently? Need more pins than USB 2.0? Guess what - USB 3.0 has more pins.
Everything coming out or going into the iPortables is either digital data or analog audio . None of which requires an exotic non-standard connector.
Why does it matter? Because when Apple abandons it non-standard connectors (ex 30 pin) it orphans a boatload of devices and cables made for that standard. And it means that you cannot use the same charging and sync cable that your sue for all your other devices - leading to more consumer confusion, needless duplication, and e-waste. This is why the EU has made micro USB the required standard connector for all phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
So USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 can connect every other kind of device in the world EXCEPT Apple products? Why? Does Apple use some secret faster-than-light subspace transmission mode that requires their connectors to think differently? Need more pins than USB 2.0? Guess what - USB 3.0 has more pins.
Everything coming out or going into the iPortables is either digital data or analog audio . None of which requires an exotic non-standard connector.
Why does it matter? Because when Apple abandons it non-standard connectors (ex 30 pin) it orphans a boatload of devices and cables made for that standard. And it means that you cannot use the same charging and sync cable that your sue for all your other devices - leading to more consumer confusion, needless duplication, and e-waste. This is why the EU has made micro USB the required standard connector for all phones.
I think what you're forgetting (and what a lot of people are forgetting), is that this plug is for iOS devices not PC's. iOS devices and Android devices are a new platform that is more or less separate from regular PCs in the same way as the original PC's were a platform independent of, and separate from the mainframes and other computers that preceded them. Apple has between 80% and 98% of this market sewn up with iOS.
This means that Apple making it's own "proprietary" connector for these devices is quite a different thing from them making a proprietary connector for their laptops or desktops. This is no different from IBM's proprietary connectors in the early desktop market in that sense and really isn't the big deal everyone is making out. Sure, technically it's proprietary, but in another way it's the new standard as well. If the market was divided 50-50 between Android and iOS there might be an argument for standard connectors, although with different OS's it's hard to see a need even then.
Most of the arguments for "standardisation" given the situation the mobile market is in today just don't really apply IMO.
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
They're not, though.
Since you've obviously used a USB port at least once before in your life, I can't see how you can say this with a straight face.
Beat me to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I think what you're forgetting (and what a lot of people are forgetting), is that this plug is for iOS devices not PC's. iOS devices and Android devices are a new platform that is more or less separate from regular PCs in the same way as the original PC's were a platform independent of, and separate from the mainframes and other computers that preceded them. Apple has between 80% and 98% of this market sewn up with iOS.
This means that Apple making it's own "proprietary" connector for these devices is quite a different thing from them making a proprietary connector for their laptops or desktops. This is no different from IBM's proprietary connectors in the early desktop market in that sense and really isn't the big deal everyone is making out. Sure, technically it's proprietary, but in another way it's the new standard as well. If the market was divided 50-50 between Android and iOS there might be an argument for standard connectors, although with different OS's it's hard to see a need even then.
Most of the arguments for "standardisation" given the situation the mobile market is in today just don't really apply IMO.
Except that every other manufacturer of cell phones has adopted the MicroUSB standard to comply with very sensible EU requirements. Every manufacturer - smart phone, tablet, eReader - everyone EXCEPT Apple. But somehow, Apple has magic data that can't be transmitted in standard cables.
The whole point was to avoid all the silliness and waste that proprietary cables caused in the early PC and cell phone markets. The logic and the law of the USB standard has nothing to do with market domination.
The now obsolete 30 pin Apple connector is a prime example of exactly the kind of waste and market confusion the EU standard was set up to avoid. New Apple compatible products will now need two dock connectors to cover the market. OR adapters. 3 if they want to be compatible with Android devices. And now I need additional cables and adapters if I want to travel with my Apple products. What about business users who may have a mix of old & new Apple devices plus a blackberry, Android, or other USB device?
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
So USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 can connect every other kind of device in the world EXCEPT Apple products? Why? Does Apple use some secret faster-than-light subspace transmission mode that requires their connectors to think differently? Need more pins than USB 2.0? Guess what - USB 3.0 has more pins.
Everything coming out or going into the iPortables is either digital data or analog audio . None of which requires an exotic non-standard connector.
Why does it matter? Because when Apple abandons it non-standard connectors (ex 30 pin) it orphans a boatload of devices and cables made for that standard. And it means that you cannot use the same charging and sync cable that your sue for all your other devices - leading to more consumer confusion, needless duplication, and e-waste. This is why the EU has made micro USB the required standard connector for all phones.
I think Dock Connector and FireWire were both supported pretty well by the industry. This won't be any different.
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
So USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 can connect every other kind of device in the world EXCEPT Apple products? Why?
Maybe you've forgotten what the other end of the Dock Connector cable looks like.
…it orphans a boatload of devices and cables made for that standard.
Simultaneously ensuring that every. single. device. that works with iDevices is MADE to work with iDevices. Use a standard port and people suddenly think they can plug in their 2.5" external hard drive, spinning fan with a bendy neck, or humping dog.
And it means that you cannot use the same charging and sync cable that your sue for all your other devices - leading to more consumer confusion, needless duplication, and e-waste.
What other devices? That's the point of what Apple makes.
And if the EU wanted to do something important, they'd fix their economy they'd standardize connectivity for cameras and camcorders, charging for those devices, or they'd work to stop theft of personal information (though I get that doesn't register with them very much since governments do it to excess) by companies.
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
The whole point was to avoid all the silliness and waste that proprietary cables caused in the early PC and cell phone markets. The logic and the law of the USB standard has nothing to do with market domination.
But USB's obsolescence does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
Except that every other manufacturer of cell phones has adopted the MicroUSB standard to comply with very sensible EU requirements. Every manufacturer - smart phone, tablet, eReader - everyone EXCEPT Apple. But somehow, Apple has magic data that can't be transmitted in standard cables.
The whole point was to avoid all the silliness and waste that proprietary cables caused in the early PC and cell phone markets. The logic and the law of the USB standard has nothing to do with market domination.
The now obsolete 30 pin Apple connector is a prime example of exactly the kind of waste and market confusion the EU standard was set up to avoid. New Apple compatible products will now need two dock connectors to cover the market. OR adapters. 3 if they want to be compatible with Android devices. And now I need additional cables and adapters if I want to travel with my Apple products. What about business users who may have a mix of old & new Apple devices plus a blackberry, Android, or other USB device?
Oh, you're a sperglord, my bad.
Carry on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Maybe you've forgotten what the other end of the Dock Connector cable looks like.
Simultaneously ensuring that every. single. device. that works with iDevices is MADE to work with iDevices. Use a standard port and people suddenly think they can plug in their 2.5" external hard drive, spinning fan with a bendy neck, or humping dog.
What other devices? That's the point of what Apple makes.
And if the EU wanted to do something important, they'd fix their economy they'd standardize connectivity for cameras and camcorders, charging for those devices, or they'd work to stop theft of personal information (though I get that doesn't register with them very much since governments do it to excess) by companies.
But USB's obsolescence does.
I honestly don't think he is worth that much effort, but good post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Yea I don't know what the big deal is with having the plug reversible. Almost no connector has ever been reversible aside from a 1930s era lamp cord.
A lot of electrical plugs are symmetrical (thanks to AC for that). Here is the non-grounded Europlug which works is almost all European countries:
And here is the symmetrical grounded version "Schuko" which works in almost as many European countries:
And of course, MagSafe is also symmetrical as are all circular audio and video plugs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Are there any examples of reversible port interfaces for data cables?
Just the Ethernet mentioned above where now days switches and routers auto detect crossover or straight through cables but that isn't physically reversed just the pin outs.
Originally Posted by noirdesir
As an American, European plugs are terrifying to look at, as well as use. I dunno about that continental Europe plug. It's just creepy. I used the British Isles' plug when I was in Ireland, and my stars, I thought I was going to get electrocuted every time I plugged something in…
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA
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I'd go further and suggest it may be no more than a reversible USB 2.0 connection - what we see as 16 pins could be in reality eight pins, with each pin showing on both faces.
The 8 pins themselves could be carrying only four pairs of signals, each pair consisting of the same signal on the left hand side and right hand side, that way it doesn't matter which way the connector is plugged into the port, just like on the MagSafe.
I believe this is the nature of the connector, after all the current 30 pin connector leads into the 4 pins of a USB plug.
Those other 26 pins are either legacy ports no longer used or possibly direct audio in and out signals utilised by docks and accessories.
Plugin USB audio adapters can be purchased for one or two British pounds on eBay so it won't be expensive for audio dock manufacturers to incorporate the necessary circuitry into future docks, if they don't do so already.
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Yes, the dock connector has analogue and digital audio out pins (plus I think some video pins) and naturally the FW pins.
Yup. I imagine one could construct a multi-ring connector where each ring is progressively shorter/longer than the next (or at least protective-earth would be longer than the others), but it might be too expensive to make the connectors.
Theoretically, yes. Ideally, all USB cabling would have the USB relief on the "up" side (notwithstanding the issues with vertical USB sockets), so that it would be easy to orient by feeling, but as I you note Apple only prints the logo and, for example, Western Digital has its company logo in relief on the other side and on some cables—such as the one I got with my My Book Elements—on the side where the trident should be (although the one I got with my newest MyBook Studio has the trident on the correct side, and it's white-very nice!).
Well, the standard/original configuration has two earth "springs" on either side. Most actual plugs are dual purpose and accept the original earth configuration and the French one where the receptacle has an offset earth pin. And I agree that neither is especially modern; I do find it fascinating, however, the room for usability/safety design there is in such an everyday item as the power plug.
Well, that depends. Does the iPod shuffle data cable count?
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Originally Posted by noirdesir
A lot of electrical plugs are symmetrical (thanks to AC for that). Here is the non-grounded Europlug which works is almost all European countries:
The Europlug design appeared first in 1963 but it looks like it could be an early 1900s design. The round connector is just illogical because it is much more difficult to create a solid connection between the male and female receptacle which is why these days in any high power condition they always use blade design to achieve greater surface contact.
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
As an American, European plugs are terrifying to look at, as well as use. I dunno about that continental Europe plug. It's just creepy. I used the British Isles' plug when I was in Ireland, and my stars, I thought I was going to get electrocuted every time I plugged something in…
How? The British power plug is the safest (electrically) design you can get. It's solid, it is fused, and the mechanism connects ground before live and neutral. The plug is solid enough that you can't tug it out of the socket, and the socket itself has barriers to prevent insertion of non-plugs (e.g., forks) into the socket.
Not so pleasant at night if you walk on the plug though.
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Originally Posted by JCC
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Why didn't they use MagSafe technology? That would have been awesome without having to push and pull. Just have it snap into place. If Steve were alive, that's what he would have asked the engineers to do.
Glad you could channel Steve's wishes for us.
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Originally Posted by GadgetCanada
Could you imagine if Tim quadruppled down on security? I would probably have an iPhone (6th generation) in my hand right now
As Apple gets bigger, this is inevitable. There's only so much they can do to prevent any potential leaks from suppliers. From here on out we can forget about never seeing any aspect of a device until its officially revealed. Those days are over, especially when every launch will sell in the tens of millions and they need to get a shitload manufactured and stockpiled ahead of time.
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Originally Posted by JCC
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Why didn't they use MagSafe technology? That would have been awesome without having to push and pull. Just have it snap into place. If Steve were alive, that's what he would have asked the engineers to do.
The 'If Steve was alive' shit is getting beyond ridiculous, I find it disgusting and despicable, to try and shove words into his mouth while being utterly ignorant of the context of how this was desinged. And no, he wouldn't have, because a magsafe would not work on such a light device. If you gave it 5 seconds of thought before suggesting that you would have also realized it. The magnets would have to be INSANELY weak so as to disconnect without pulling the device, and having magnets that weak would create a whole host of issues, including inadvertant disconnection. It only works with laptops because the weight threshhold is there. Also, did you maybe stop to think that the current magsafe is power ONLY. This cable will be transmitting data/syncing, etc. Do you really think its such a great idea to have it so easily disconnect while transferring data? Do you not realize all the potential problems it would cause? Do you still know for a fact this is what Steve would have asked the engineers to do? The guy liked to push the limits, but he was also practical, and this would be in no way, shape, or form practical. Stop putting words into a dead guy's mouth.
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
They're not, though.
Since you've obviously used a USB port at least once before in your life, I can't see how you can say this with a straight face.
And there you go again TS, replying in a sarcastic, condascending way to someone who just happens to be right, while you're wrong. USB ports/connectors are reversible since when? Not a single one I've ever used. He is absolutely right in what he's saying, and you're wrong. No need for your sarcasm.
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Originally Posted by Mac_128
This can't be the final design. Doubt this is real. Apple would never create an insertable tab connector like that. There's nothing elegant about it. Unless this is a post Steve decision. Way too easy to break off. Now perhaps if this were intended to be housed inside some kind of shell al la USB, et al ... But take a look at any Apple product, aside from standard audio connectors there is nothing like this ... This has PC written all over it ...
I assumed this was a parody post from the 1st line, then realized maybe it wasn't. You came to all these incredible conclusions after looking at the device for 5 seconds? Do you think Apple's design/engineering team are utterly incompetent, and they havent thought through a whole host of issues while making this? The probably started shortly after the iPhone 4 launch, so more than 2 years, and some extremely skilled, intelligent, and motivated people have spent thousands of hours considering/building a shit ton of options. Why not give them at least the benefit of the doubt, and wait until the full product is shown? But clearly, you know better, a random messageboard poster, after seeing a photo of what may or may not be the connector on the internet, and knowing absolutely nothing about it. I sometimes wonder how some of you function in the real world, with the kind of conclusions you make based on zero background info, and the utter lack of humility you exhibit with your matter of fact 'this is shit' pronouncements, based on, again, absolutely nothing. Well done.
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Originally Posted by Mac_128
Seriously? The dock connector is very robust. It's a structurally engineered ridgid metal enclosure, the pins are inside. It slips pretty tightly into a port with guides to align the tab that inserts, fairly shallowly I might add, into the slot.
This has been an Intuitive design pattern all the way back to the Apple II.
Ever notice how PC connectors have the male pins on the device, the female on the cable, so when a cable is inevitably pulled out or the incorrect plug jammed into the port, the pins on the device are broken off requiring a major repair, instead of the apple way where the pins are broken on the cable side, requiring only a new cable?
They aren't going to change that philosophy. This is not about selling a product with or without cameras ...
So they should keep the current connector forever, a connector launched in 2003 where the tech landscape/requirement bore absolutely no resemblance to what it is now. I wonder where Apple would be if they followed your 'philosophy' of never moving things forward.
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Originally Posted by macslut
The next time my girlfriend grabs her iPhone and starts to run off while it's still plugged in, can I call you and have you explain how Magsafe would be pointless to her?
This one is too easy. The only products in existence today that have a magsafe connector are Apple's laptops. What does your girlfriend do when she has to use, oh I dont know, every other thing in existence that relies on a power cable? If your girlfriend consistently 'runs off' with things that are plugged in, I think there's bigger issues than the connector itself. Strange how I've never once managed to do that after 4 years of owning an iPhone (or any phone) and plugging/unplugging it at least 2-3 times a day. A more logical solution is for you to explain to her that she can perhaps take half a second to determine if the phone is plugged in or not before grabbing and running off with it. Magsafe on a phone would have a ton of issues and would be impractical, just check the beginning of my post. Because your gf does something extremely rare/strange, does not mean Apple should implement a solution that would cause a whole host of other problems.
Whew. Sorry, had to get some of that our of my system. SOme of the responses here blow my mind. If I had a nickel for everytime Apple became even more massively successful after people like you guys on exclaimed they were doing it all wrong, based on limited imagination and limited (or non-existent) understand of the product...
Originally Posted by Hattig
How? The British power plug is the safest (electrically) design you can get. It's solid, it is fused, and the mechanism connects ground before live and neutral. The plug is solid enough that you can't tug it out of the socket, and the socket itself has barriers to prevent insertion of non-plugs (e.g., forks) into the socket.
I was thinking primarily the visible and audible arc of blue electricity that appears when you have a plug halfway in.
Originally Posted by Slurpy
And there you go again TS, replying in a sarcastic, condascending way to someone who just happens to be right, while you're wrong. USB ports/connectors are reversible since when? Not a single one I've ever used. He is absolutely right in what he's saying, and you're wrong. No need for your sarcasm.
Nope. Please read both posts again.
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It is a 9 pin connector according to ifixit.com. The metal collar is the grounding pin.
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