It is not an industry I know anything about, is it labor intensive? If not it seems Apple should looking to build it's own plant or at least partner with such a company and build it in the USA. I'm sure there could be incentives made available in many States for such a development.
No one is going to build in the USA. It's too much nonsense to deal with. A poorly educated labor force. Every municipal, county, state and arm of the US government passing conflicting laws willy nilly, labor laws that vary all over the map, no standardized forms of insurance or pensions, consultants, lawyers and pr people required constantly. Then comes the constant threat of unions and law suits from an industry of lawyers.
Ive both opened and closed plants in the USA. The latter was by far the most profit effective even when moving to higher labor cost countries like Germany and Switzerland. Productivity was much higher, management was much simpler (no Human Resources, Legal or PR departments with their incessant list of rules we must adhere to) and high school graduates with a better knowledge of math and physics than most college grads in the USA, let alone high school graduates.
No one is going to build in the USA. It's too much nonsense to deal with. A poorly educated labor force. Every municipal, county, state and arm of the US government passing conflicting laws willy nilly, labor laws that vary all over the map, no standardized forms of insurance or pensions, consultants, lawyers and pr people required constantly. Then comes the constant threat of unions and law suits from an industry of lawyers.
That is understandably frustrating. I wanted to mention that Samsung has a few plants in the US, so it's not like none of these companies ever build here, in spite of the issues.
Quote:
Ive both opened and closed plants in the USA. The latter was by far the most profit effective even when moving to higher labor cost countries like Germany and Switzerland. Productivity was much higher, management was much simpler (no Human Resources, Legal or PR departments with their incessant list of rules we must adhere to) and high school graduates with a better knowledge of math and physics than most college grads in the USA, let alone high school graduates.
The way they teach some of these subjects in the US is absolutely horrible. The subjects themselves don't have to be inherently difficult. I wish I knew how Germany and Switzerland differed in their teaching methods. You just happened to mention two subjects that I like.
This will only end in more trouble for Apple. TSMC has had HISTORIC issues with fabs. This is weak sauce from Apple. "Prefer to settle" with Samsung, ProView etc... Then go behind their backs to axe Samsung from the supply chain going with a likely inferior fabricator.
The true nature of the ~new~ Apple is now revealed?
I'm not sure where this baloney about an inferior fabricator comes from. There isn't a foundry anywhere that hasn't had problems at one time or another. Even Samsung slipped almost a year with the transition to the last node. Proof is in the pudding and right now TSMC has the attention of a few buyers because they are doing pretty good. Will they screw up at the next node, hard to say but let's face it the last node shrink simply did not go well with anybody.
Some time ago Apple was using 80% of Samsungs capacity to manufacture custom chips. This isn't a wet dream and frankly I believe the numbers are higher today. Apple is using a huge nmber of custom chips that directly drive the success of Samsungs foundries.
Note that that is NVidia that couldn't get its chips to work on the same process AMD had no problem with. So do you really want to believe NVidia?
It is hardly worthless. It might have taken awhile to arrive but chips are coming off the lines and performing well. These aren't NVidia chips but that is more NVidias problems than TSMC.
ROLF? Of course, Samsung customized and produced their hummingbird SoC (aka, A4) for Apple used in earlier iDevices, while Apple twiddled their thumbs. Furthermore, Samsung was already growing by leaps and bounds without Apple - in fact, by 2010, Samsung was almost twice as big as Sony (or most of its Japanese competitor) all without Apple's so-called generous patronage. In fact, Sony was Samsung's customer #1. Apple was in the top 10 for the most of the past decade.
ROLF? Of course, Samsung customized and produced their hummingbird SoC (aka, A4) for Apple used in earlier iDevices, while Apple twiddled their thumbs. Furthermore, Samsung was already growing by leaps and bounds without Apple - in fact, by 2010, Samsung was almost twice as big as Sony (or most of its Japanese competitor) all without Apple's so-called generous patronage. In fact, Sony was Samsung's customer #1. Apple was in the top 10 for the most of the past decade.
I'm actually wondering where the 80% figure came from, but regardless of that, it's silly to think that Samsung would not try to line up new customers in a time of transition.
I get it. Apple have got big and some people hate Apple being on top. People make up their own minds. I've made mine up.
Samsung are on their way out of Apple's business by the looks of things.
They stabbed Apple in the back and were rightfully sued for it.
Samsung products are now on my 'no fly' list. They're a mediocre company. They don't even make the best Android phone.
Samsung make cheap plastic copies of Apple products. Ape-ing Apple's marketing, design and interfaces. Sure, Samsung's products are popular. So is windows. Both are mediocre. I don't see where Samsung are innovating at all.
Apple? It's iPhone is a world class, leading design. It's an understated work of art. Upclose. It's a swiss watch. A jewel. Beautiful to hold and behold. I can't say that about the '3'. It's obvious and 'cheap' compared to the '5'.
Where's Samsung's world class operating system? Where's their landmark computer hardware? Where's the world class eco system? Where's their class leading computers? Or retail redefining computer and gadjet stores? Where's their ease of use? Where's it's world class App store which redefined how the software industry sells? Where was it when the iPhone landed? Where's their production defining manufacturing process at the bleeding edge?
Take the '3'. It's a fat, bloated and predictable (add in 'showy' but no tell) design which apes an iPod or earlier 3GS design. The back has a thin plastic lid that covers the access to the battery? It's whites on the screen are dull. The interface bitter, cluttered and poorly laid out. No wonder they use the 'dandlion puff ball' on the screen in adverts because the interface royally sucks. The screen is over saturated. It's clumsy to use in software and clumsy in the hand. A 'fatlet'. An ifat. In court documents it was revealed they honed their inspiration from certain Apple products eg iPhone. Copy that. That's successful.
I hope Apple sue them into oblivion and find other suppliers. Hopefully the sting of a 1 billion loss in court and 2 billion of lost revenue from a KEY customer will deprive them of their 'inside' R&D (more revenue lost because they'll have to innovate themselves...)
I'll be rooting for Sharp and TMSC to supply the screens and socs Apple use going forward. Anybody but Samsung. Apple have 120 billion in the bank which they can use to power-up competitors to Samsung. Along with the settlement to HTC (should be a nice little earner...) they can clip the wings of Samsung. Competition is good. But when you create something and people just rip you off? Not good.
Apple make their own software and hardware. That combination makes them best of class for me. They aint perfect.
But I couldn't imagine a world without Apple.
Left to Windows in computers? And Samsung in phones?
I'll be rooting for Sharp and TMSC to supply the screens and socs Apple use going forward. Anybody but Samsung. Apple have 120 billion in the bank which they can use to power-up competitors to Samsung. Along with the settlement to HTC (should be a nice little earner...) they can clip the wings of Samsung. Competition is good. But when you create something and people just rip you off? Not good.
Apple make their own software and hardware. That combination makes them best of class for me. They aint perfect.
But I couldn't imagine a world without Apple.
Left to Windows in computers? And Samsung in phones?
*Shudders at the thought of it.
Lemon Bon Bon.
As far as Samsung's transgressions go, they certainly have been ripoff merchants. As far as Android products go, the Samsung GS2, GS3, HTC One X, One XL, One XPlus, Nexus4, Nexus 7... There are a lot of quality Android devices coming out now. Apple is not "at the top" and therefore "hated".
It's a 50-50 world. Anyone who thinks otherwise is, I would say, delusional. Maybe it wasn't so 1-3 years ago because Android was clunky on 2.x and 3.x was no redeemer.
But 4.x Android... Beware, the juggernaut is rising.
If one were to just step away from the iOS ecosystem briefly, one would see what else is happening in the real world.
Samsung products are now on my 'no fly' list. They're a mediocre company. They don't even make the best Android phone.
They do have arguably one of the best Android phones. I prefer the HTC One X as my "flagship" Android phone when I get it, but S2 and S3 were significant.
Samsung make cheap plastic copies of Apple products. Ape-ing Apple's marketing, design and interfaces. Sure, Samsung's products are popular. So is windows. Both are mediocre. I don't see where Samsung are innovating at all.
Windows aped Mac and did a terrible job. Samsung aped Apple and did a good job. They have added some enhancements since while iPhone stagnated somewhat.
Apple? It's iPhone is a world class, leading design. It's an understated work of art. Upclose. It's a swiss watch. A jewel. Beautiful to hold and behold. I can't say that about the '3'. It's obvious and 'cheap' compared to the '5'.
Well, yes, but perfect hardware style is not for everyone. Some people ostensibly like the S2 and S3. The HTC One X is arguably as beautiful as the iPhone 3G/3GS and iPhone 4/4S. iPhone 5 is in a class of its own but you don't wear a swiss watch everyday (well, not everyone anyway). Sometimes a Seiko is alright.
Where's Samsung's world class operating system? Where's their landmark computer hardware? Where's the world class eco system? Where's their class leading computers? Or retail redefining computer and gadjet stores? Where's their ease of use? Where's it's world class App store which redefined how the software industry sells? Where was it when the iPhone landed? Where's their production defining manufacturing process at the bleeding edge?
Android 4.2 and Google Play. That's what Samsung needs, and what it uses. Those two alone are taking on iOS in a massive way. As for production, you do realise they make the Apple chips right? So if they're not bleeding edge then Apple isn't bleeding edge in terms of ARM. Don't forget Tegra, Qualcomm etc coming out strong now and definitely in 2013.
Take the '3'. It's a fat, bloated and predictable (add in 'showy' but no tell) design which apes an iPod or earlier 3GS design. The back has a thin plastic lid that covers the access to the battery? It's whites on the screen are dull. The interface bitter, cluttered and poorly laid out. No wonder they use the 'dandlion puff ball' on the screen in adverts because the interface royally sucks. The screen is over saturated. It's clumsy to use in software and clumsy in the hand. A 'fatlet'. An ifat. In court documents it was revealed they honed their inspiration from certain Apple products eg iPhone. Copy that. That's successful.
I hope Apple sue them into oblivion and find other suppliers. Hopefully the sting of a 1 billion loss in court and 2 billion of lost revenue from a KEY customer will deprive them of their 'inside' R&D (more revenue lost because they'll have to innovate themselves...)
Not going to happen, not with Tim "I'd rather settle" Cook.
If one were to just step away from the iOS ecosystem briefly, one would see what else is happening in the real world.
I think all people are in the real world, making sound decisions. Whether they use Android or iOS is either a money or preference decision and not people being delusional or anything like that.
Perhaps a short version will make my point clear: YMMV
I think all people are in the real world, making sound decisions. Whether they use Android or iOS is either a money or preference decision and not people being delusional or anything like that.
Perhaps a short version will make my point clear: YMMV
Fair enough. However, I don't think money is even an issue in the iOS-Android "debate". If you're talking Samsung, HTC and Nexus, vs iPhone 4S and iPhone 5, on contract, in Australia at least, they're all the same. That is, 2 year contracts on Telstra for example, they're all $60/month to $80+/month AUD depending on the data you want.
So for smartphones, we're talking higher-end Android vs iOS, there's not a money issue for phones on contract.
So for smartphones, we're talking higher-end Android vs iOS, there's not a money issue for phones on contract.
Really? Wow. I thought many choose HTC, Samsung etc because it was (so much) cheaper. Ok, so some models are, but not higher end. Didn't expect that, actually. Thanks.
Really? Wow. I thought many choose HTC, Samsung etc because it was (so much) cheaper. Ok, so some models are, but not higher end. Didn't expect that, actually. Thanks.
So, indeed, not only is it around the same price, the Android phone might actually offer ~better~ value compared to iPhone 5.
You've of course got all the cheap crappy Android phones but I don't think those are anything to shout about, the game will be "won and lost" at the mid-to-high-end. For the mid-end it's still a bit rocky for Android but I think the manufacturers are learning to "distill" the good stuff out of the high-end to make mid-end stuff that doesn't suck, rather than stuff the channel with mediocre mid-end phones that have nothing in common with the higher-end phones.
[B][SIZE=3][COLOR=red]So Long, Samsung: Apple Switches To TSMC For A6X Processor Production[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] BY Aldrin Calimlim on Tue January 01st, 2013 a6x apple apple vs. samsung TSMC
Apple has already requested Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) to produce its next-generation A6X processors, reports the Taiwanese financial newspaper Commercial Times.
There has been widespread speculation that TSMC is set to take over production of Apple’s iDevice processors from Samsung.
Samsung is the supplier of the current A6 and A6X processors found in the iPhone 5 and the fourth-generation iPad, respectively. But Samsung is also, by all appearances, Apple’s foremost competitor and litigator.
Not unreasonably, the Cupertino-based iDevice maker seems intent on cutting ties with the South Korean electronics company. And one way of doing this is to partner with TSMC, which happens to be the world’s largest dedicated independent semiconductor foundry.
TSMC is expected to start producing the A6X processors, which will be of the 28 nm type rather than the 32 nm type from Samsung, in the first quarter of 2013. This is earlier than what had been forecasted by industry officials, who predicted that Apple would switch from Samsung to TSMC in the second half of the year.
TSMC’s A6X yield is expected to be mounted on the fifth-generation iPad and the second-generation iPad mini, which are rumored to be released early this year.
While it hasn’t officially commented on the matter, the semiconductor company has also been pegged as the likely suppliers of Apple’s 20 nm A7 processors.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
It is not an industry I know anything about, is it labor intensive? If not it seems Apple should looking to build it's own plant or at least partner with such a company and build it in the USA. I'm sure there could be incentives made available in many States for such a development.
No one is going to build in the USA. It's too much nonsense to deal with. A poorly educated labor force. Every municipal, county, state and arm of the US government passing conflicting laws willy nilly, labor laws that vary all over the map, no standardized forms of insurance or pensions, consultants, lawyers and pr people required constantly. Then comes the constant threat of unions and law suits from an industry of lawyers.
Ive both opened and closed plants in the USA. The latter was by far the most profit effective even when moving to higher labor cost countries like Germany and Switzerland. Productivity was much higher, management was much simpler (no Human Resources, Legal or PR departments with their incessant list of rules we must adhere to) and high school graduates with a better knowledge of math and physics than most college grads in the USA, let alone high school graduates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye Forget
No one is going to build in the USA. It's too much nonsense to deal with. A poorly educated labor force. Every municipal, county, state and arm of the US government passing conflicting laws willy nilly, labor laws that vary all over the map, no standardized forms of insurance or pensions, consultants, lawyers and pr people required constantly. Then comes the constant threat of unions and law suits from an industry of lawyers.
That is understandably frustrating. I wanted to mention that Samsung has a few plants in the US, so it's not like none of these companies ever build here, in spite of the issues.
Quote:
Ive both opened and closed plants in the USA. The latter was by far the most profit effective even when moving to higher labor cost countries like Germany and Switzerland. Productivity was much higher, management was much simpler (no Human Resources, Legal or PR departments with their incessant list of rules we must adhere to) and high school graduates with a better knowledge of math and physics than most college grads in the USA, let alone high school graduates.
The way they teach some of these subjects in the US is absolutely horrible. The subjects themselves don't have to be inherently difficult. I wish I knew how Germany and Switzerland differed in their teaching methods. You just happened to mention two subjects that I like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Some time ago Apple was using 80% of Samsungs capacity to manufacture custom chips. This isn't a wet dream and frankly I believe the numbers are higher today. Apple is using a huge nmber of custom chips that directly drive the success of Samsungs foundries.
Note that that is NVidia that couldn't get its chips to work on the same process AMD had no problem with. So do you really want to believe NVidia?
It is hardly worthless. It might have taken awhile to arrive but chips are coming off the lines and performing well. These aren't NVidia chips but that is more NVidias problems than TSMC.
ROLF? Of course, Samsung customized and produced their hummingbird SoC (aka, A4) for Apple used in earlier iDevices, while Apple twiddled their thumbs. Furthermore, Samsung was already growing by leaps and bounds without Apple - in fact, by 2010, Samsung was almost twice as big as Sony (or most of its Japanese competitor) all without Apple's so-called generous patronage. In fact, Sony was Samsung's customer #1. Apple was in the top 10 for the most of the past decade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
ROLF? Of course, Samsung customized and produced their hummingbird SoC (aka, A4) for Apple used in earlier iDevices, while Apple twiddled their thumbs. Furthermore, Samsung was already growing by leaps and bounds without Apple - in fact, by 2010, Samsung was almost twice as big as Sony (or most of its Japanese competitor) all without Apple's so-called generous patronage. In fact, Sony was Samsung's customer #1. Apple was in the top 10 for the most of the past decade.
I'm actually wondering where the 80% figure came from, but regardless of that, it's silly to think that Samsung would not try to line up new customers in a time of transition.
Definitely
I get it. Apple have got big and some people hate Apple being on top. People make up their own minds. I've made mine up.
Samsung are on their way out of Apple's business by the looks of things.
They stabbed Apple in the back and were rightfully sued for it.
Samsung products are now on my 'no fly' list. They're a mediocre company. They don't even make the best Android phone.
Samsung make cheap plastic copies of Apple products. Ape-ing Apple's marketing, design and interfaces. Sure, Samsung's products are popular. So is windows. Both are mediocre. I don't see where Samsung are innovating at all.
Apple? It's iPhone is a world class, leading design. It's an understated work of art. Upclose. It's a swiss watch. A jewel. Beautiful to hold and behold. I can't say that about the '3'. It's obvious and 'cheap' compared to the '5'.
Where's Samsung's world class operating system? Where's their landmark computer hardware? Where's the world class eco system? Where's their class leading computers? Or retail redefining computer and gadjet stores? Where's their ease of use? Where's it's world class App store which redefined how the software industry sells? Where was it when the iPhone landed? Where's their production defining manufacturing process at the bleeding edge?
Take the '3'. It's a fat, bloated and predictable (add in 'showy' but no tell) design which apes an iPod or earlier 3GS design. The back has a thin plastic lid that covers the access to the battery? It's whites on the screen are dull. The interface bitter, cluttered and poorly laid out. No wonder they use the 'dandlion puff ball' on the screen in adverts because the interface royally sucks. The screen is over saturated. It's clumsy to use in software and clumsy in the hand. A 'fatlet'. An ifat. In court documents it was revealed they honed their inspiration from certain Apple products eg iPhone. Copy that. That's successful.
I hope Apple sue them into oblivion and find other suppliers. Hopefully the sting of a 1 billion loss in court and 2 billion of lost revenue from a KEY customer will deprive them of their 'inside' R&D (more revenue lost because they'll have to innovate themselves...)
Just a 'me too fast follower' company.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I'll be rooting for Sharp and TMSC to supply the screens and socs Apple use going forward. Anybody but Samsung. Apple have 120 billion in the bank which they can use to power-up competitors to Samsung. Along with the settlement to HTC (should be a nice little earner...) they can clip the wings of Samsung. Competition is good. But when you create something and people just rip you off? Not good.
Apple make their own software and hardware. That combination makes them best of class for me. They aint perfect.
But I couldn't imagine a world without Apple.
Left to Windows in computers? And Samsung in phones?
*Shudders at the thought of it.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
I could share a glass of wine with Cool Daddy.
Lemon Bon Bon.
As far as Samsung's transgressions go, they certainly have been ripoff merchants. As far as Android products go, the Samsung GS2, GS3, HTC One X, One XL, One XPlus, Nexus4, Nexus 7... There are a lot of quality Android devices coming out now. Apple is not "at the top" and therefore "hated".
It's a 50-50 world. Anyone who thinks otherwise is, I would say, delusional. Maybe it wasn't so 1-3 years ago because Android was clunky on 2.x and 3.x was no redeemer.
But 4.x Android... Beware, the juggernaut is rising.
If one were to just step away from the iOS ecosystem briefly, one would see what else is happening in the real world.
I prefer to keep an open mind because I find I am happier that way.
Not even close.
They do have arguably one of the best Android phones. I prefer the HTC One X as my "flagship" Android phone when I get it, but S2 and S3 were significant.
Windows aped Mac and did a terrible job. Samsung aped Apple and did a good job. They have added some enhancements since while iPhone stagnated somewhat.
Well, yes, but perfect hardware style is not for everyone. Some people ostensibly like the S2 and S3. The HTC One X is arguably as beautiful as the iPhone 3G/3GS and iPhone 4/4S. iPhone 5 is in a class of its own but you don't wear a swiss watch everyday (well, not everyone anyway). Sometimes a Seiko is alright.
Android 4.2 and Google Play. That's what Samsung needs, and what it uses. Those two alone are taking on iOS in a massive way. As for production, you do realise they make the Apple chips right? So if they're not bleeding edge then Apple isn't bleeding edge in terms of ARM. Don't forget Tegra, Qualcomm etc coming out strong now and definitely in 2013.
This is more personal and/or prejudiced distaste.
Not going to happen, not with Tim "I'd rather settle" Cook.
A follower, but like in racing when you slipstream the car in front you can get a good speed boost and overtake it.
This isn't the end of Samsung in mobile/tablet, it's only the ~Beginning~.
I think all people are in the real world, making sound decisions. Whether they use Android or iOS is either a money or preference decision and not people being delusional or anything like that.
Perhaps a short version will make my point clear: YMMV
Fair enough. However, I don't think money is even an issue in the iOS-Android "debate". If you're talking Samsung, HTC and Nexus, vs iPhone 4S and iPhone 5, on contract, in Australia at least, they're all the same. That is, 2 year contracts on Telstra for example, they're all $60/month to $80+/month AUD depending on the data you want.
So for smartphones, we're talking higher-end Android vs iOS, there's not a money issue for phones on contract.
Really? Wow. I thought many choose HTC, Samsung etc because it was (so much) cheaper. Ok, so some models are, but not higher end. Didn't expect that, actually. Thanks.
Yeah, even in the USA: http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/smartphones.html for example... Galaxy Note 2 is more expensive than entry-level iPhone 5, HTC One X+ is same price as entry-level iPhone 5.
So, indeed, not only is it around the same price, the Android phone might actually offer ~better~ value compared to iPhone 5.
You've of course got all the cheap crappy Android phones but I don't think those are anything to shout about, the game will be "won and lost" at the mid-to-high-end. For the mid-end it's still a bit rocky for Android but I think the manufacturers are learning to "distill" the good stuff out of the high-end to make mid-end stuff that doesn't suck, rather than stuff the channel with mediocre mid-end phones that have nothing in common with the higher-end phones.
[B][SIZE=3][COLOR=red]So Long, Samsung: Apple Switches To TSMC For A6X Processor Production[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]
BY Aldrin Calimlim on Tue January 01st, 2013 a6x apple apple vs. samsung TSMC
http://appadvice.com/appnn/2013/01/so-long-samsung-apple-switches-to-tsmc-for-a6x-processor-production
Apple has already requested Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) to produce its next-generation A6X processors, reports the Taiwanese financial newspaper Commercial Times.
There has been widespread speculation that TSMC is set to take over production of Apple’s iDevice processors from Samsung.
Samsung is the supplier of the current A6 and A6X processors found in the iPhone 5 and the fourth-generation iPad, respectively. But Samsung is also, by all appearances, Apple’s foremost competitor and litigator.
Not unreasonably, the Cupertino-based iDevice maker seems intent on cutting ties with the South Korean electronics company. And one way of doing this is to partner with TSMC, which happens to be the world’s largest dedicated independent semiconductor foundry.
TSMC is expected to start producing the A6X processors, which will be of the 28 nm type rather than the 32 nm type from Samsung, in the first quarter of 2013. This is earlier than what had been forecasted by industry officials, who predicted that Apple would switch from Samsung to TSMC in the second half of the year.
TSMC’s A6X yield is expected to be mounted on the fifth-generation iPad and the second-generation iPad mini, which are rumored to be released early this year.
While it hasn’t officially commented on the matter, the semiconductor company has also been pegged as the likely suppliers of Apple’s 20 nm A7 processors.
Source: Commercial Times
Via: Yonhap News