Less than 2 weeks before we get our first Apple event since last October 2012. For once I want them to ask questions about future products I know he won't directly answer but that is probably just a bad case of appleitis.
What do you mean by "number of shares owned by Apple" -- Apple does not own any of its own shares, afaik?
That's why I am asking. I don't know what's involved with a buyback. If the shares have to be held by the issuer for x-duration before being deprecated to abide by this or that law.
What do you mean by "number of shares owned by Apple" -- Apple does not own any of its own shares, afaik?
That's why I am asking. I don't know what's involved with a buyback. If the shares have to be held by the issuer for x-duration before being deprecated to abide by this or that law.
They are all typically 'cancelled' (and the transfer agent has to keep track of the cancellations, noting each unique share number -- sort of similar to how every currency note has a unique number). However, the canceled shares can be kept as 'treasury stock' for future reissue as new stock, or for issue to employees when they cash in options. The same 'share number' that was used before will re-enter the transfer agents books.
What is wrong and illegal are the BS rumor spreaders, who write false stories about Apple with the intent to manipulate the market. These people should be behind bars.
Exactly correct.
Unfortunately the market manipulators seem to get too much control over Apple's stock. Perhaps they are the only ones buying and selling in volume.
Stock manipulation is illegal. People who have spread lies about companies to drive their stock prices one way or the other (mostly down) have rightfully gone to jail for this. Why aren't regulators doing anything about the obvious campaigns of lies and smears against Apple?
I guess the Rule of Law isn't what it used to be.
There's nothing illegal about shorting a stock. In fact, it's a well-respected financial practice.
Manipulating a stock by spreading false information IS illegal. However, there is no evidence that this has occurred.
The bottom line with AAPL currently is blah sentiment. Unless that changes, it'll be a back and forth in the $400s. Nothing much can change that except for real news.
Or financial analysts who start thinking with their brains rather than their intestines.
At today's price, Apple is trading at a cash-adjusted forward P/E ratio of below 7 - well below half of the average stock on the market. Since the average stock is, well, average, Apple would have to be truly horrible to earn that P/E ratio. And when you consider an upcoming $60 B share buyback which will lower the P/E ratio by another point or so, the current price is ridiculous.
The other option is to contact Apple's 'Transfer Agent,' whom he SEC charges with maintaining all the records associated with 'canceled' shares (after repurchase). They may or may not respond... http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=5
It would be a RegFD violation if IR told you how many shares they repurchased during the quarter. They cannot disclose until it is disclose to all at once via the next quarterly report. As the denominator in the EPS calc., it is material info.
I'm hoping everybody will ignore jdnc 123's frothing about Tim Cook, and not do him the favor of quoting him. As he himself said the last time he was around, his posts don't matter anyway. That's really true, except in the larger sense of truth vs. lies.
My opinions are just that, opinions. Nobody should be dumb enough to believe an internet forum post is the truth.
Well you can add me to that list of short-sellers, I've made a hefty profit by doing it, so if someone want's to spank me it's okay, really I don't mind, my handy number is 00414178******* . I didn't know the stock was going to fall this much, I bought stock last April when it was near it's lowest point then sold again 20 points up. This month though it seemed like the stock wouldn't stop dropping so I chimed in and shorted 150 shares. I had a stop order in for 400 but canceled it and moved it down a few more ticks to 380. Don't worry though Apple will probably get their money back later this year when the Mac Pro is released, well some of it anyway. The rest will go towards shoes but I'll stick a Apple sticker on them to honor the company that paid for them. I don't think I should be posting after a glass of wine.
I'd like everyone's input on this because I'm confused. Every where I look I cannot find any info regarding how many shares appl has bought back up to this point. With a 60 billion dollar buy back you would think that appl could offset the shorts buy simply buying back 2 billion dollars worth of stock every month for the next 30 months. Would that have a huge influence of the stock price? So the question on my mind is if appl isn't buying back its shares right now, why? What are they waiting for? With appl's volume being very low each day, 11-12 million shares being traded each day over the last few days...it seems to me that appl could be doing more in this regard to hold up its stock price...any thoughts on this out there? Care to elaborate some?
I'd like everyone's input on this because I'm confused. Every where I look I cannot find any info regarding how many shares appl has bought back up to this point. With a 60 billion dollar buy back you would think that appl could offset the shorts buy simply buying back 2 billion dollars worth of stock every month for the next 30 months. Would that have a huge influence of the stock price? So the question on my mind is if appl isn't buying back its shares right now, why? What are they waiting for? With appl's volume being very low each day, 11-12 million shares being traded each day over the last few days...it seems to me that appl could be doing more in this regard to hold up its stock price...any thoughts on this out there? Care to elaborate some?
My guess is the worst senario is that Apple has been buying back stock. I have now lost more than I have made with apple, which is my fault, but the incompetency of apple management since Jobs death is without precedent IMOHO. If they have paid over one dollar to anyone to communicate with stock holders they wasted their money. Management has been targeting a customer base that is too small and it shows in the drop from 700 to below 400. Why no social expansion like Netflix to put apple in the living room? And all of this with no reassurance to stock holders that there is a chance for any turn around. Cook selling all those apple shares at $413 didn't help matters either - talk about unresponsive management.
I bought more shares today. You know last week I decided to give up my unlimited data with verizon to get a new phone to sell on ebay. I took at look at what I would net buying and selling a samsung galaxy s4 and thought wow I'm going to get a lot! Then out of curiousity, I tried running the numbers with the iphone 5 and it wasn't even close, the iphone 5 (which costs me the same) would sell for more.
I really don't worry that much that after the release of the next round of products from apple the stock will jump right back up. It is way undervalued IMO. The customer loyalty they have is insane. I read an article last night (sorry don't have the link) that someone did a survey about brand loyalty. 90% of apple users said they planned on buying the next apple device, and only a small percentage said they would consider switching to android or some other OS. With android, there were many more users willing to jump ship to something else (including apple).
the incompetency of apple management since Jobs death is without precedent IMOHO. Management has been targeting a customer base that is too small and it shows in the drop from 700 to below 400.
Why no social expansion like Netflix to put apple in the living room? And all of this with no reassurance to stock holders that there is a chance for any turn around.
A turn around from what? They made the same profit last quarter as Exxon ($9.5b). They keep switching places as the most valuable companies in the world. Samsung profit is at $6.4b, Microsoft is at $6b, PetroChina $5.8b, Berkshire Hathaway is at $4.9b, Google $3.4b, Amazon $0.08b.
Currently Apple's and Exxon's market caps are around the same, as are their profits so that would suggest the current valuation is fairly accurate and very high. Apple can certainly move into more growth markets and Netflix could be a good move but Netflix's profit last quarter was $3m (would have been $19m ignoring debt), which isn't going to change their $9.5b much.
There was an article recently about Apple changing the way they deal with iPhone replacements:
This could add a decent amount to their earnings. But really, people should stop expecting the stock price to go back to $700. Apple would have to nearly double their profits for that to be an accurate valuation.
There's a share buyback of $60 billion by the end of 2015. Outstanding shares would go down by ~150m. If the market cap stayed at the point it's at now, that means by 2015, it can hit $470.
They should buy back the shares when they are low.
They're looking at something to do with television. If a TV set came about before 2015, that can push earnings up 10% so $517 by 2015 would be reasonable.
It's not a high growth stock any more and people need to come to terms with that.
Its P/E is like 9.5. At $700 it would be around 16.5. There's nothing crazy about that. Microsoft is sitting at almost 18 p/e. Unless you think Apple is the next blackberry and will lose their entire customer base you should be buying!
Comments
Less than 2 weeks before we get our first Apple event since last October 2012. For once I want them to ask questions about future products I know he won't directly answer but that is probably just a bad case of appleitis.
That's why I am asking. I don't know what's involved with a buyback. If the shares have to be held by the issuer for x-duration before being deprecated to abide by this or that law.
They are all typically 'cancelled' (and the transfer agent has to keep track of the cancellations, noting each unique share number -- sort of similar to how every currency note has a unique number). However, the canceled shares can be kept as 'treasury stock' for future reissue as new stock, or for issue to employees when they cash in options. The same 'share number' that was used before will re-enter the transfer agents books.
A company cannot own itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
What is wrong and illegal are the BS rumor spreaders, who write false stories about Apple with the intent to manipulate the market. These people should be behind bars.
Exactly correct.
Unfortunately the market manipulators seem to get too much control over Apple's stock. Perhaps they are the only ones buying and selling in volume.
There's nothing illegal about shorting a stock. In fact, it's a well-respected financial practice.
Manipulating a stock by spreading false information IS illegal. However, there is no evidence that this has occurred.
Or financial analysts who start thinking with their brains rather than their intestines.
At today's price, Apple is trading at a cash-adjusted forward P/E ratio of below 7 - well below half of the average stock on the market. Since the average stock is, well, average, Apple would have to be truly horrible to earn that P/E ratio. And when you consider an upcoming $60 B share buyback which will lower the P/E ratio by another point or so, the current price is ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
There is no easy or obvious way to check this.
Best to write to Apple Investor Relations and ask: http://investor.apple.com/contactUs.cfm
The other option is to contact Apple's 'Transfer Agent,' whom he SEC charges with maintaining all the records associated with 'canceled' shares (after repurchase). They may or may not respond... http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=5
It would be a RegFD violation if IR told you how many shares they repurchased during the quarter. They cannot disclose until it is disclose to all at once via the next quarterly report. As the denominator in the EPS calc., it is material info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
I'm hoping everybody will ignore jdnc 123's frothing about Tim Cook, and not do him the favor of quoting him. As he himself said the last time he was around, his posts don't matter anyway. That's really true, except in the larger sense of truth vs. lies.
My opinions are just that, opinions. Nobody should be dumb enough to believe an internet forum post is the truth.
Originally Posted by jdnc123
My opinions are just that, opinions. Nobody should be dumb enough to believe an internet forum post is the truth.
Then don't bother posting.
Well you can add me to that list of short-sellers, I've made a hefty profit by doing it, so if someone want's to spank me it's okay, really I don't mind, my handy number is 00414178*******
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Nonsense.
Then you better arrest me, I bought fuzzy handcuffs just for the occasion.
With the money you got from shorting the stock! Ah, that's a good one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
What do you mean by "number of shares owned by Apple" -- Apple does not own any of its own shares, afaik?
I think he might be talking about the Restricted Stocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Then don't bother posting.
Yea, because were all idiots here, you sure told him. Wait....what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
With the money you got from shorting the stock! Ah, that's a good one.
Yea, I got the real nice ones with the rhinestones, so it's ribbed for her pleasure.
I'd like everyone's input on this because I'm confused. Every where I look I cannot find any info regarding how many shares appl has bought back up to this point. With a 60 billion dollar buy back you would think that appl could offset the shorts buy simply buying back 2 billion dollars worth of stock every month for the next 30 months. Would that have a huge influence of the stock price? So the question on my mind is if appl isn't buying back its shares right now, why? What are they waiting for? With appl's volume being very low each day, 11-12 million shares being traded each day over the last few days...it seems to me that appl could be doing more in this regard to hold up its stock price...any thoughts on this out there? Care to elaborate some?
Quote:
Originally Posted by skleiniv
I'd like everyone's input on this because I'm confused. Every where I look I cannot find any info regarding how many shares appl has bought back up to this point. With a 60 billion dollar buy back you would think that appl could offset the shorts buy simply buying back 2 billion dollars worth of stock every month for the next 30 months. Would that have a huge influence of the stock price? So the question on my mind is if appl isn't buying back its shares right now, why? What are they waiting for? With appl's volume being very low each day, 11-12 million shares being traded each day over the last few days...it seems to me that appl could be doing more in this regard to hold up its stock price...any thoughts on this out there? Care to elaborate some?
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/24/business/la-fi-apple-earnings-20130424
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1452981-apple-share-buyback-the-numbers-talk
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21576729-biggest-single-share-buy-back-history-will-not-solve-apples-problems-tim-cooks-cash-card
http://www.afr.com/p/technology/apple_announces_biggest_share_buy_9KMXPOJ19ObHAe11o7GkNK
Google
My guess is the worst senario is that Apple has been buying back stock. I have now lost more than I have made with apple, which is my fault, but the incompetency of apple management since Jobs death is without precedent IMOHO. If they have paid over one dollar to anyone to communicate with stock holders they wasted their money. Management has been targeting a customer base that is too small and it shows in the drop from 700 to below 400. Why no social expansion like Netflix to put apple in the living room? And all of this with no reassurance to stock holders that there is a chance for any turn around. Cook selling all those apple shares at $413 didn't help matters either - talk about unresponsive management.
I bought more shares today. You know last week I decided to give up my unlimited data with verizon to get a new phone to sell on ebay. I took at look at what I would net buying and selling a samsung galaxy s4 and thought wow I'm going to get a lot! Then out of curiousity, I tried running the numbers with the iphone 5 and it wasn't even close, the iphone 5 (which costs me the same) would sell for more.
I really don't worry that much that after the release of the next round of products from apple the stock will jump right back up. It is way undervalued IMO. The customer loyalty they have is insane. I read an article last night (sorry don't have the link) that someone did a survey about brand loyalty. 90% of apple users said they planned on buying the next apple device, and only a small percentage said they would consider switching to android or some other OS. With android, there were many more users willing to jump ship to something else (including apple).
It was below $400 when Tim took over.
A turn around from what? They made the same profit last quarter as Exxon ($9.5b). They keep switching places as the most valuable companies in the world. Samsung profit is at $6.4b, Microsoft is at $6b, PetroChina $5.8b, Berkshire Hathaway is at $4.9b, Google $3.4b, Amazon $0.08b.
Currently Apple's and Exxon's market caps are around the same, as are their profits so that would suggest the current valuation is fairly accurate and very high. Apple can certainly move into more growth markets and Netflix could be a good move but Netflix's profit last quarter was $3m (would have been $19m ignoring debt), which isn't going to change their $9.5b much.
There was an article recently about Apple changing the way they deal with iPhone replacements:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/03/apple-now-repairing-iphone-5-screens-in-store-as-part-of-applecare-overhaul
This could add a decent amount to their earnings. But really, people should stop expecting the stock price to go back to $700. Apple would have to nearly double their profits for that to be an accurate valuation.
There's a share buyback of $60 billion by the end of 2015. Outstanding shares would go down by ~150m. If the market cap stayed at the point it's at now, that means by 2015, it can hit $470.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/06/19/warren-buffetts-simple-advice-about-apple-stock/
They should buy back the shares when they are low.
They're looking at something to do with television. If a TV set came about before 2015, that can push earnings up 10% so $517 by 2015 would be reasonable.
It's not a high growth stock any more and people need to come to terms with that.
Its P/E is like 9.5. At $700 it would be around 16.5. There's nothing crazy about that. Microsoft is sitting at almost 18 p/e. Unless you think Apple is the next blackberry and will lose their entire customer base you should be buying!