[quote]...any chance they could add third party dvd burning support <hr></blockquote>
when the announcement was made to charge for idvd i just kind of assumed that third-party burner support would be inevitable, otherwise aren't they just limiting sales to people that have bought machines with superdrives?
[quote]Originally posted by superkaratemonkeydeathcar:
<strong>
when the announcement was made to charge for idvd i just kind of assumed that third-party burner support would be inevitable, otherwise aren't they just limiting sales to people that have bought machines with superdrives?
it doesn't make sense otherwise......does it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The only reason iDVD is boxed and for sale is because IDVD is too large to download for almost everyone. Why make somebody pay $20 shipping and handeling for the iDVD upgrade; when you could just box the entire iApp suit, rebrand it iLife, and then use a blitz of hype to sell it all for $49?
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: Mr. Macintosh ]</p>
Lets see... how many problems did Apple have trying to support every combination of Macintosh and third party cd burners for iTunes. Think of the amount of money which went to research to iron out glitches for something as simple as burning music onto CD.
Now imagine what would hapen if they opened the floodgates on the DVD world of burners.
Owner of Performa 6400/6320/etc :"I tried to burn DVD's to my $100 noname brand of DVD burner, which is SUPPOSED to be capable of burning at 0.25 speed and this STUPID computer can't even burn a SIMPLE DVD. I mean, I paid my friend for the program and EVERYTHING. Now when I go to do anything the computer takes FOREVER. I can't even listen to iTunes while I am doing this! I mean, I have all the minimum settings! G3, 129M memory, almost a whole GIG of harddrive space and an perfectly usable DVD Burner! What a crappy program SNAPPLE made! I hate you forever! I line my catbox with your market shares! Your pitiful attempts at programming are Pathetic. You can't even support legacy hardware! grumble, grumble, spite ... whine, my mommy's gonna smack you... I shovel my sidewalk in your general direction!"
Only on the Superdrive? They do have to draw the line somewhere... It's too bad so many of us are on the wrong side of the line. How would you draw the line? Should my system be able to burn? Should an iBook with 8M memory? A Pismo? A Lisa?
Lets see... how many problems did Apple have trying to support every combination of Macintosh and third party cd burners for iTunes. Think of the amount of money which went to research to iron out glitches for something as simple as burning music onto CD.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I dunno, I got the Apple e-news today, and it said in small print I'd need a SuperDrive or some other DVD burner to burn DVDs.
[quote] I dunno, I got the Apple e-news today, and it said in small print I'd need a SuperDrive or some other DVD burner to burn DVDs. <hr></blockquote>
Careful, someone else said that too, but the fine print actually said "will play on other dvd drives" not record.
Which reminds me... I haven't had an apple e-news for a while... I am feeling jilted... 8^(
Lets see... how many problems did Apple have trying to support every combination of Macintosh and third party cd burners for iTunes. Think of the amount of money which went to research to iron out glitches for something as simple as burning music onto CD.
Now imagine what would hapen if they opened the floodgates on the DVD world of burners.
Owner of Performa 6400/6320/etc :"I tried to burn DVD's to my $100 noname brand of DVD burner, which is SUPPOSED to be capable of burning at 0.25 speed and this STUPID computer can't even burn a SIMPLE DVD. I mean, I paid my friend for the program and EVERYTHING. Now when I go to do anything the computer takes FOREVER. I can't even listen to iTunes while I am doing this! I mean, I have all the minimum settings! G3, 129M memory, almost a whole GIG of harddrive space and an perfectly usable DVD Burner! What a crappy program SNAPPLE made! I hate you forever! I line my catbox with your market shares! Your pitiful attempts at programming are Pathetic. You can't even support legacy hardware! grumble, grumble, spite ... whine, my mommy's gonna smack you..."
Only on the Superdrive? They do have to draw the line somewhere... It's too bad so many of us are on the wrong side of the line. How would you draw the line? Should my system be able to burn? Should an iBook with 8M memory? A Pismo? A Lisa?
there are an extremely small number of DVD-R drives out and nearly ALL of them use the Pioneer mechanism. ONE driver would cover MOST of the market and nearly all of the mac market for external or even internal DVD-R drives.
And have you never heard of system requirements? Software has requirements and people seem fine figuring out their software wont work on those machines. So I dont understand your whole performa example.
iTunes had little problem with drives. I dont know where you are getting that from. For the most part once you get a generic driver all they have to do is keep updating it as new drives come out which they do all the time.
This is not a difficult thing to do. And at this point supporting third party burners would make Apple more money. 50 bucks for every drive. and dont say if they dont support them people will just buy new machines.... perhaps a small number will but not enough to offset the amount who wont.
[quote]Originally posted by superkaratemonkeydeathcar:
<strong>no, the small print (in enews email) just says a mac with a superdrive is needed.
my thinking was that this would not be the case forever, or is the fact that something is difficult reason to avoid it all together?
dvd burning is in its infancy, look how far cd burning has come in a very short time.
also (and i really don't know this, as i'm no techie) wouldn't the manufacturer of the drive be responsible for compatibility?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the manufacturer is responsible for the basics, but apple is still responsible for ensuring their program plays nice and understands all the limitations of the drive. Remember, you didn't get new drivers for CD burning from the manufacturer... they were included in the updates to iTunes.
DVD burning is in its infancy, but don't expect to be able to burn full featureed iDVD movies from outdated equipment any time soon. I wasted many, many cd's on an old USB cd burner until I installed one in my machine. The encoding and juggling iDVD must perform kinda demands more capable equipment. Hence, if iMovie doesn't cut it for you, and you absolutely need iDVD, then you absolutely have to consider newer equipment...
I want it because I just discovered a whole bunch of old Super8's of the family, and want to archive them for my siblings before anything untoward happens to them. My family is finally getting back into its history. That, and this is wholy a justification for getting a powerbook instead of an ibook... 8^)
(I have to ask, though... does your girlfreind call you superkarate or monkeydeath? I hope she doesn't call you deathcar...)
Considering the fact that Apple blocked support of external drives with iDVD 2 (they threatned to sue manufactors for releasing a driver), I highyly doubt that iDVD3 will include support for external burners.
One of the main points of iDVD is to convince current Apple users to buy new machines with Super drives.
iTunes had little problem with drives. I dont know where you are getting that from. For the most part once you get a generic driver all they have to do is keep updating it as new drives come out which they do all the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I had quite a few problems with the drive I had at the time, and I was referred to the "compaatability list" by a few reps. Perhaps you didn't have problems, others did. iTunes 2 solved a lot of compatability problems. iTunes three a few more. I am sure there were a few more in various system updates. I never had to install a sparate driver from a cd manufacturer.
If you never had problems with iTunes, that is very fortunate. Others did.
[quote]Considering the fact that Apple blocked support of external drives with iDVD 2 (they threatned to sue manufactors for releasing a driver), I highyly doubt that iDVD3 will include support for external burners.
One of the main points of iDVD is to convince current Apple users to buy new machines with Super drives. <hr></blockquote>
yes i'm aware of that. and all the superdrives they sell from now on will come with idvd, so why make all the big fuss about it only being $49 when he's talking to, what? two hundred thousand people? (the current owners of macs with superdrives)
i just don't see not supporting third party drives being a long term strategy.
<strong>there are an extremely small number of DVD-R drives out and nearly ALL of them use the Pioneer mechanism. ONE driver would cover MOST of the market and nearly all of the mac market for external or even internal DVD-R drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>
One driver to rule them all and in the darkness Burn them?
So you aren't one for quality control, are you? Lets see... if we add a firewire or USB interface to the mix that requires more driver prowess. Factor in the quality of the cable and you have more potential problems. I can't believe that just because there is one manufacturer of the mechanism that there are going to be fewer driver issues...
<strong>And have you never heard of system requirements? Software has requirements and people seem fine figuring out their software wont work on those machines. So I dont understand your whole performa example.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Right... you might want to take your blinders off and recall how many people had complaints about MacOSX when it first came out. Then Quark Extreme. People don't just accept a software or hardware limitation. They test it. They push it. They want to see just how far it will bend. Then they whine on boards like these about how miserable the program is. How many people say MacOSX is unusable on their machine because of speed and they have newer machines than mine?
If Apple released iDVD with all the effort of supporting third party burners, how long would it take for the first complaints about it not working properly?
And people don't seem fine with it. They have been given a blunt "not usable on anything but a built in Superdrive" but they still complain about it.
<strong>This is not a difficult thing to do. And at this point supporting third party burners would make Apple more money. 50 bucks for every drive. and dont say if they dont support them people will just buy new machines.... perhaps a small number will but not enough to offset the amount who wont.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Fine... we all expect you to release this magnificent piece of software next week, two o:clock.
Try to get it out before Apple releases ilife, though... I want to use it on my Lisa.
<strong>Considering the fact that Apple blocked support of external drives with iDVD 2 (they threatned to sue manufactors for releasing a driver), I highyly doubt that iDVD3 will include support for external burners.
One of the main points of iDVD is to convince current Apple users to buy new machines with Super drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>
if anything that could mean they wanted to provide their own solution to CHARGE for it.
iDVD has sold the machines it will already sell... iDVD 3 after it has sold to how many superdrives are already in macs will have sold its max since it is included on ALL new machines with superdrives.... therefore the market and therefore money for it is miniscule. Apple's hardware sales are hurting.... they need revenue and profit and selling software is where its at.
the speed of encoding is enough to make people want new faster machines... no reason to restrict old users though.
[quote]I had quite a few problems with the drive I had at the time, and I was referred to the "compaatability list" by a few reps. Perhaps you didn't have problems, others did. iTunes 2 solved a lot of compatability problems. iTunes three a few more. I am sure there were a few more in various system updates. I never had to install a sparate driver from a cd manufacturer.
If you never had problems with iTunes, that is very fortunate. Others did.<hr></blockquote>
as with everything iTunes started off with a basic set of drivers and expanded. is there anything wrong with that?
[quote]So you aren't one for quality control, are you? Lets see... if we add a firewire or USB interface to the mix that requires more driver prowess.<hr></blockquote>
hardly anything that Apple, a multibillion dollar, premier software developer cant handle. that is basic stuff
[quote]Factor in the quality of the cable and you have more potential problems<hr></blockquote>
quality of the cable? are you kidding me? this is desperate... the quality of the cable has nothing to do with apple supporting third party drives. has nothing to do with writing a driver... has nothing to do with ANYTHING.
[quote]I can't believe that just because there is one manufacturer of the mechanism that there are going to be fewer driver issues...<hr></blockquote>
what dont you understand? a pioneer driver is already written... support for other drives is ALREADY WRITTEN... Apple sells something called DVD Studio Pro... it has drivers for third party drives.... THE WORK IS DONE... they are not worrying about assinine things like cable quality.
[quote]Right... you might want to take your blinders of and recall how many people had complaints about MacOSX when it first came out.<hr></blockquote>
they read the side of the box that said g3 or g4 and then bought it and installed it on a performa and called tech support?
[quote]Then Quark Extreme.<hr></blockquote>
you mean quartz extreme?
[quote]If Apple released iDVD with all the effort of supporting third party burners, how long would it take for the first complaints about it not working properly?<hr></blockquote>
um...what are you talking about?
all apple has to do is require a G4 and specify what drives are compatible..... which would easily include most any drive based on a pioneer mechanism...especially internal drives.
and who would complain about it not working perfectly? it would work.... on the machines it supports.
FCP 3 has requirements...do people call Apple and complain about it not working on G3/266s? no...
[quote]I mean, you are complaining, aren't you?<hr></blockquote>
you're not making any sense at all, are you?
[quote]Fine... we all expect you to release this magnificent piece of software next week, two o:clock.
Try to get it out before Apple releases ilife, though... I want to use it on my Lisa.<hr></blockquote>
what the **** are you talking about.
P.S. learn how to respond in a post... you dont need to make 5 posts to respond to one...
Comments
The software is ready... it's upcoming hardware releases for the delay.
<a href="http://thinksecret.com/news/ilifehardwaredelay.html"; target="_blank">http://thinksecret.com/news/ilifehardwaredelay.html</a>;
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: MacsRGood4U ]</p>
when the announcement was made to charge for idvd i just kind of assumed that third-party burner support would be inevitable, otherwise aren't they just limiting sales to people that have bought machines with superdrives?
it doesn't make sense otherwise......does it?
<strong>
when the announcement was made to charge for idvd i just kind of assumed that third-party burner support would be inevitable, otherwise aren't they just limiting sales to people that have bought machines with superdrives?
it doesn't make sense otherwise......does it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The only reason iDVD is boxed and for sale is because IDVD is too large to download for almost everyone. Why make somebody pay $20 shipping and handeling for the iDVD upgrade; when you could just box the entire iApp suit, rebrand it iLife, and then use a blitz of hype to sell it all for $49?
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: Mr. Macintosh ]</p>
Lets see... how many problems did Apple have trying to support every combination of Macintosh and third party cd burners for iTunes. Think of the amount of money which went to research to iron out glitches for something as simple as burning music onto CD.
Now imagine what would hapen if they opened the floodgates on the DVD world of burners.
Owner of Performa 6400/6320/etc :"I tried to burn DVD's to my $100 noname brand of DVD burner, which is SUPPOSED to be capable of burning at 0.25 speed and this STUPID computer can't even burn a SIMPLE DVD. I mean, I paid my friend for the program and EVERYTHING. Now when I go to do anything the computer takes FOREVER. I can't even listen to iTunes while I am doing this! I mean, I have all the minimum settings! G3, 129M memory, almost a whole GIG of harddrive space and an perfectly usable DVD Burner! What a crappy program SNAPPLE made! I hate you forever! I line my catbox with your market shares! Your pitiful attempts at programming are Pathetic. You can't even support legacy hardware! grumble, grumble, spite ... whine, my mommy's gonna smack you... I shovel my sidewalk in your general direction!"
Only on the Superdrive? They do have to draw the line somewhere... It's too bad so many of us are on the wrong side of the line. How would you draw the line? Should my system be able to burn? Should an iBook with 8M memory? A Pismo? A Lisa?
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: nosey ]</p>
<strong>Only on the Superdrive?
Lets see... how many problems did Apple have trying to support every combination of Macintosh and third party cd burners for iTunes. Think of the amount of money which went to research to iron out glitches for something as simple as burning music onto CD.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I dunno, I got the Apple e-news today, and it said in small print I'd need a SuperDrive or some other DVD burner to burn DVDs.
Careful, someone else said that too, but the fine print actually said "will play on other dvd drives" not record.
Which reminds me... I haven't had an apple e-news for a while... I am feeling jilted... 8^(
my thinking was that this would not be the case forever, or is the fact that something is difficult reason to avoid it all together?
dvd burning is in its infancy, look how far cd burning has come in a very short time.
also (and i really don't know this, as i'm no techie) wouldn't the manufacturer of the drive be responsible for compatibility?
<strong>Only on the Superdrive?
Lets see... how many problems did Apple have trying to support every combination of Macintosh and third party cd burners for iTunes. Think of the amount of money which went to research to iron out glitches for something as simple as burning music onto CD.
Now imagine what would hapen if they opened the floodgates on the DVD world of burners.
Owner of Performa 6400/6320/etc :"I tried to burn DVD's to my $100 noname brand of DVD burner, which is SUPPOSED to be capable of burning at 0.25 speed and this STUPID computer can't even burn a SIMPLE DVD. I mean, I paid my friend for the program and EVERYTHING. Now when I go to do anything the computer takes FOREVER. I can't even listen to iTunes while I am doing this! I mean, I have all the minimum settings! G3, 129M memory, almost a whole GIG of harddrive space and an perfectly usable DVD Burner! What a crappy program SNAPPLE made! I hate you forever! I line my catbox with your market shares! Your pitiful attempts at programming are Pathetic. You can't even support legacy hardware! grumble, grumble, spite ... whine, my mommy's gonna smack you..."
Only on the Superdrive? They do have to draw the line somewhere... It's too bad so many of us are on the wrong side of the line. How would you draw the line? Should my system be able to burn? Should an iBook with 8M memory? A Pismo? A Lisa?
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: nosey ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
you've got to be kidding me?
there are an extremely small number of DVD-R drives out and nearly ALL of them use the Pioneer mechanism. ONE driver would cover MOST of the market and nearly all of the mac market for external or even internal DVD-R drives.
And have you never heard of system requirements? Software has requirements and people seem fine figuring out their software wont work on those machines. So I dont understand your whole performa example.
iTunes had little problem with drives. I dont know where you are getting that from. For the most part once you get a generic driver all they have to do is keep updating it as new drives come out which they do all the time.
This is not a difficult thing to do. And at this point supporting third party burners would make Apple more money. 50 bucks for every drive. and dont say if they dont support them people will just buy new machines.... perhaps a small number will but not enough to offset the amount who wont.
and it's not like they can count on all the superdrives that are GOING to be sold, because it's going to be bundled. right?
<strong>no, the small print (in enews email) just says a mac with a superdrive is needed.
my thinking was that this would not be the case forever, or is the fact that something is difficult reason to avoid it all together?
dvd burning is in its infancy, look how far cd burning has come in a very short time.
also (and i really don't know this, as i'm no techie) wouldn't the manufacturer of the drive be responsible for compatibility?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the manufacturer is responsible for the basics, but apple is still responsible for ensuring their program plays nice and understands all the limitations of the drive. Remember, you didn't get new drivers for CD burning from the manufacturer... they were included in the updates to iTunes.
DVD burning is in its infancy, but don't expect to be able to burn full featureed iDVD movies from outdated equipment any time soon. I wasted many, many cd's on an old USB cd burner until I installed one in my machine. The encoding and juggling iDVD must perform kinda demands more capable equipment. Hence, if iMovie doesn't cut it for you, and you absolutely need iDVD, then you absolutely have to consider newer equipment...
I want it because I just discovered a whole bunch of old Super8's of the family, and want to archive them for my siblings before anything untoward happens to them. My family is finally getting back into its history. That, and this is wholy a justification for getting a powerbook instead of an ibook... 8^)
(I have to ask, though... does your girlfreind call you superkarate or monkeydeath? I hope she doesn't call you deathcar...)
One of the main points of iDVD is to convince current Apple users to buy new machines with Super drives.
<strong>
iTunes had little problem with drives. I dont know where you are getting that from. For the most part once you get a generic driver all they have to do is keep updating it as new drives come out which they do all the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I had quite a few problems with the drive I had at the time, and I was referred to the "compaatability list" by a few reps. Perhaps you didn't have problems, others did. iTunes 2 solved a lot of compatability problems. iTunes three a few more. I am sure there were a few more in various system updates. I never had to install a sparate driver from a cd manufacturer.
If you never had problems with iTunes, that is very fortunate. Others did.
One of the main points of iDVD is to convince current Apple users to buy new machines with Super drives. <hr></blockquote>
yes i'm aware of that. and all the superdrives they sell from now on will come with idvd, so why make all the big fuss about it only being $49 when he's talking to, what? two hundred thousand people? (the current owners of macs with superdrives)
i just don't see not supporting third party drives being a long term strategy.
<strong>there are an extremely small number of DVD-R drives out and nearly ALL of them use the Pioneer mechanism. ONE driver would cover MOST of the market and nearly all of the mac market for external or even internal DVD-R drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>
One driver to rule them all and in the darkness Burn them?
So you aren't one for quality control, are you? Lets see... if we add a firewire or USB interface to the mix that requires more driver prowess. Factor in the quality of the cable and you have more potential problems. I can't believe that just because there is one manufacturer of the mechanism that there are going to be fewer driver issues...
<strong>And have you never heard of system requirements? Software has requirements and people seem fine figuring out their software wont work on those machines. So I dont understand your whole performa example.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Right... you might want to take your blinders off and recall how many people had complaints about MacOSX when it first came out. Then Quark Extreme. People don't just accept a software or hardware limitation. They test it. They push it. They want to see just how far it will bend. Then they whine on boards like these about how miserable the program is. How many people say MacOSX is unusable on their machine because of speed and they have newer machines than mine?
If Apple released iDVD with all the effort of supporting third party burners, how long would it take for the first complaints about it not working properly?
And people don't seem fine with it. They have been given a blunt "not usable on anything but a built in Superdrive" but they still complain about it.
I mean, you are complaining, aren't you?
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: nosey ]</p>
<strong>This is not a difficult thing to do. And at this point supporting third party burners would make Apple more money. 50 bucks for every drive. and dont say if they dont support them people will just buy new machines.... perhaps a small number will but not enough to offset the amount who wont.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Fine... we all expect you to release this magnificent piece of software next week, two o:clock.
Try to get it out before Apple releases ilife, though... I want to use it on my Lisa.
<strong>Considering the fact that Apple blocked support of external drives with iDVD 2 (they threatned to sue manufactors for releasing a driver), I highyly doubt that iDVD3 will include support for external burners.
One of the main points of iDVD is to convince current Apple users to buy new machines with Super drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>
if anything that could mean they wanted to provide their own solution to CHARGE for it.
iDVD has sold the machines it will already sell... iDVD 3 after it has sold to how many superdrives are already in macs will have sold its max since it is included on ALL new machines with superdrives.... therefore the market and therefore money for it is miniscule. Apple's hardware sales are hurting.... they need revenue and profit and selling software is where its at.
the speed of encoding is enough to make people want new faster machines... no reason to restrict old users though.
[quote]I had quite a few problems with the drive I had at the time, and I was referred to the "compaatability list" by a few reps. Perhaps you didn't have problems, others did. iTunes 2 solved a lot of compatability problems. iTunes three a few more. I am sure there were a few more in various system updates. I never had to install a sparate driver from a cd manufacturer.
If you never had problems with iTunes, that is very fortunate. Others did.<hr></blockquote>
as with everything iTunes started off with a basic set of drivers and expanded. is there anything wrong with that?
[quote]So you aren't one for quality control, are you? Lets see... if we add a firewire or USB interface to the mix that requires more driver prowess.<hr></blockquote>
hardly anything that Apple, a multibillion dollar, premier software developer cant handle. that is basic stuff
[quote]Factor in the quality of the cable and you have more potential problems<hr></blockquote>
quality of the cable? are you kidding me? this is desperate... the quality of the cable has nothing to do with apple supporting third party drives. has nothing to do with writing a driver... has nothing to do with ANYTHING.
[quote]I can't believe that just because there is one manufacturer of the mechanism that there are going to be fewer driver issues...<hr></blockquote>
what dont you understand? a pioneer driver is already written... support for other drives is ALREADY WRITTEN... Apple sells something called DVD Studio Pro... it has drivers for third party drives.... THE WORK IS DONE... they are not worrying about assinine things like cable quality.
[quote]Right... you might want to take your blinders of and recall how many people had complaints about MacOSX when it first came out.<hr></blockquote>
they read the side of the box that said g3 or g4 and then bought it and installed it on a performa and called tech support?
[quote]Then Quark Extreme.<hr></blockquote>
you mean quartz extreme?
[quote]If Apple released iDVD with all the effort of supporting third party burners, how long would it take for the first complaints about it not working properly?<hr></blockquote>
um...what are you talking about?
all apple has to do is require a G4 and specify what drives are compatible..... which would easily include most any drive based on a pioneer mechanism...especially internal drives.
and who would complain about it not working perfectly? it would work.... on the machines it supports.
FCP 3 has requirements...do people call Apple and complain about it not working on G3/266s? no...
[quote]I mean, you are complaining, aren't you?<hr></blockquote>
you're not making any sense at all, are you?
[quote]Fine... we all expect you to release this magnificent piece of software next week, two o:clock.
Try to get it out before Apple releases ilife, though... I want to use it on my Lisa.<hr></blockquote>
what the **** are you talking about.
P.S. learn how to respond in a post... you dont need to make 5 posts to respond to one...
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>