With Broadwell Getting Delayed cant Decide What To Do ?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited September 2014
[SIZE=4]Hello Guys,

I wanted to ask you guys for your opinion on this on what and how should I look at this.

And what step should I take?

I have a plan of buying a rMBP on my mind and this is gonna be my first ever rMBP ever in my life. Though I want it, I am not in any urgent hurry or rush to buy it, I want it, but I don't need It at the moment. I can also do without it at the moment. Hence I say that I want it, I don't need it. Hope you guys You understand the difference between the two. So I can wait for a reasonable period of time but not like a year!!

I am torn between should I wait all the way to buy the rMBP when Broadwell comes in rMBP or should I take the plunge right now only. My question to you guys is, basically what I want to know is, is Broadwell going to be doing something magical something extra and more that right now the Iris Pro Graphic Card cannot do ? is it worth waiting for the Broadwell Inclusion in the rMBP, standing here now ? what is it that Broadwell will be able to do which right now iris Pro cannot do ? I am an average user with just about average needs of using the rMBP majorly into apps, occasional Gaming, Movies etc...

I had decided that, I would buy a Integrated Graphics card rMBP which is atleast very recent and is quite capable in itself. But since I wanna future proof my machine, I was waiting for the Broadwell chip to be included in the rMBP and then take the plunge, but with the Broadwell Release date on quite regular basis going on delaying, it is becoming quite irritating and frustrating. I am not in any Real hurry to buy the rMBP right away so I can wait for some time, but that does not mean that wait can be never ending which is what it looks at the moment with Broadwell.

My question to you guys is, For a Normal Average user who is just into APPS, heavy web surfing, occasional Gaming, Movies etc...will he feel the difference between having a Iris pro current model and a Broadwell Machine?" Does it matter to him if it is Iris Pro or Broadwell or Skylake or whatever...Has it already reached a level where an average user will not even explore half potential of what already Iris Pro is capable of...So "In everyday use will one, notice any difference" can you guys say anything about this ? If in normal use would it make any difference if it is Iris Pro or Broadwell ? Will the average user anyways notice any difference ? so is it worth waiting for Broadwell, if the average user is not going to notice any difference between Iris Pro and Broadwell !![/SIZE]

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 12
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    All bets are off as to what Broadwell may or may not do. the fact that Intel has delayed so many times ma indicate issues with the Process or the Design. Possibly both. If they have to hack up Broadwell to get it to run on the new process who knows what performance will be like.

    As for You, either avenue you are free to follow. However if you don't need it don' buy it.
  • Reply 2 of 12
    augustyaaugustya Posts: 109member

      Quote:


    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    All bets are off as to what Broadwell may or may not do. the fact that Intel has delayed so many times ma indicate issues with the Process or the Design. Possibly both. If they have to hack up Broadwell to get it to run on the new process who knows what performance will be like.



    As for You, either avenue you are free to follow. However if you don't need it don' buy it.

     

    Ok so you are saying that since Intel is already late according to their own time table on the release of Broadwell, There is no Guarantee how thoroughly it would have been tested and passed the quality checks, and how efficiently will they work because of the hasty production release to meet the delivery time lines and hence no point in waiting and getting in to a product which is more of a Hush-Hush job then any quality product ! is that what you are saying ?

  • Reply 3 of 12
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    augustya wrote: »
      Quote:

    Ok so you are saying that since Intel is already late according to their own time table on the release of Broadwell, There is no Guarantee how thoroughly it would have been tested and passed the quality checks, and how efficiently will they work because of the hasty production release to meet the delivery time lines and hence no point in waiting and getting in to a product which is more of a Hush-Hush job then any quality product ! is that what you are saying ?

    Learn to read!

    With the several delays for Broadwell there is no certainty that Intel can deliver what they thought they could. Is that so hard to understand? Depending upon the severity of the production problems they may have to revisit Broadwells design. Or we may get stuck with lower clock rates than expected. The point is what we thought we would get a year ago might not be what we get if Broadwell ever ships.
  • Reply 4 of 12
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,223moderator
    augustya wrote: »
    Ok so you are saying that since Intel is already late according to their own time table on the release of Broadwell, There is no Guarantee how thoroughly it would have been tested and passed the quality checks

    Intel will test it works just fine but there is the possibility that it won't deliver the features or performance they're hoping for. They should have released Broadwell this year but they put out Haswell refresh instead - the plus is that the server parts found in the Mac Pro are now on the same architecture as the desktop and laptop models and not a year behind. The article here has some performance expectations for both Broadwell and the Broadwell successor Skylake:

    http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/intel-to-boost-graphics-performance-of-skylake-gpus-by-50-per-cent/

    The number of GPU execution units (EUs) in the current Haswell chips is 40. That article says Broadwell will move to 48 units so 20% performance gain if they maintain the clock speeds (they can increase or decrease the clock speeds). Skylake moves to 72 units so a further 50% (or 80% faster than Haswell).

    Right now, the NVidia 850M is close to 100% faster than Iris Pro 5200, sometimes more. The 750M can be 50% more at times but is in most cases very close to Iris Pro. Most tests shows the 850M to be close to double both Iris Pro and the 750M:


    [VIDEO]


    It's a higher power part though, around 5-10W higher than the 750M. If Apple's intention with Broadwell is to finally get rid of the dedicated GPUs, the 750M is an easier target to shoot for and will allow them to cut power draw.

    Power draw is one of Broadwell's benefits. Intel says it will allow double the performance-per-watt in their low-end chips:

    http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/none/326513-14nm-broadwell-20nm-exynos-show-moore-s-law-is-alive-and-well

    This would allow Apple's Macbook Airs to perform almost the same as the MBPs with the same design but it also allows them to cut the power in half so they can make much thinner fanless designs. Apple will of course choose the latter route for the Air. It makes sense to move to Retina displays at that time too as the whole chassis will get a redesign. That would make for a really nice design, especially if they make a 15" model.

    There's not much point in cutting the power draw of the MBP Haswell chip in half because it still wouldn't be passively cooled and it helps to keep the performance high. I would like to see them cut power draw a bit though to keep the heat output lower as this helps maintain performance so they can boost performance 20% and cut power by 1/3 or something like that. A couple of users here note that the 750M draws less power under heavy load than Iris Pro but more under light loads:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=18275982#post18275982

    The way the Iris Pro GPU is going, it looks like it won't rival the 2014 850M until 2016 Skylake so perhaps Apple will maintain a high-end model with a dedicated GPU but when you've got 850M level of performance from an IGP, the demand for higher models will drop off. Plus, NVidia is running into problems boosting performance and they've shelved Volta for the time being in favor of Pascal:

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7900/nvidia-updates-gpu-roadmap-unveils-pascal-architecture-for-2016

    The original roadmap for 2016 Volta made it look like performance would jump close to double over 2014 Maxwell. Now 2016 Pascal looks closer to 40-50% faster. They are trying to improve memory but that's where integrated graphics already has the advantage because it's using internal memory anyway and machines will move to DDR4 next year with faster data rates.

    If Intel can push clock speeds up as well as increase the EUs, they should be able to stay competitive with NVidia. Next year will likely see an NVidia rebadge of the 850M so this may allow the Broadwell Iris Pro 6200 to move closer to it, although it will still fall short.

    Either way, people looking for a MBP now should buy now. The chips intended for the MBP are due Q2 2015 (April-June) so another MBP won't arrive for 8-11 months. What I'd expect from Broadwell in the MBP is DDR4 memory, hopefully still 16GB in the entry model, a 20% faster GPU and I'm hoping for a drop in power draw, which will extend battery life. A decent enough upgrade for someone buying at that time but not worth waiting 8-11 months for and negligible difference side by side for average use. The next MBA upgrade on the other hand should be worth putting off a MBA purchase for.
  • Reply 5 of 12
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    a 20% faster GPU and I'm hoping for a drop in power draw, which will extend battery life. 

    How much more battery life can a Retina Display Laptop give. Retina Display has its own requirement of minimum power consumption, so what and how much more battery back up can it get ?

  • Reply 6 of 12
    Quote:


    I can also do without it at the moment. Hence I say that I want it, I don't need it.


     

    Then don't buy one.  

     

    Quote:


    basically what I want to know is, is Broadwell going to be doing something magical something extra and more that right now the Iris Pro Graphic Card cannot do ?


     

    No, it won't do anything special.  Broadwell will be faster until its successor is faster.

     

    Quote:


    I can also do without it at the moment.


     

    So go buy your wife or girlfiend something to ensure long lasting sexual favors, because Broadwell sure as hell ain't gonna provide 'em.

  • Reply 7 of 12
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,223moderator
    I can also do without it at the moment. Hence I say that I want it, I don't need it.

    Then don't buy one.

    Right now, he uses a Windows laptop so it's more than just a basic upgrade. This would be the first investment in the Mac ecosystem. It's best to buy just after a new model comes out and the sooner people move from Windows the better.
    So go buy your wife or girlfiend something to ensure long lasting sexual favors, because Broadwell sure as hell ain't gonna provide 'em.

    One of the primary uses he noted in the past was sex webcams so unless his girlfriend or wife is one of the models, I'm guessing long-lasting favors would be out of the question - they'll only last until his tokens run out.
  • Reply 8 of 12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    Right now, he uses a Windows laptop so it's more than just a basic upgrade. This would be the first investment in the Mac ecosystem. It's best to buy just after a new model comes out and the sooner people move from Windows the better.

     

     

    Ooops, didn't see that.  

     

    Definitely buy a MacBook now if you have the money.  Broadwell won't enable you to do more, the goal is to get into OS X and start rockin'!

     

    Quote:


    One of the primary uses he noted in the past was sex webcams so unless his girlfriend or wife is one of the models, I'm guessing long-lasting favors would be out of the question - they'll only last until his tokens run out.


     

    That sucks.  Maybe a sexy new MacBook will help get him a girlfriend!

  • Reply 9 of 12
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Ooops, didn't see that.  

    Definitely buy a MacBook now if you have the money.  Broadwell won't enable you to do more, the goal is to get into OS X and start Z
    Doesn't that depend upon how you define "more". The hope is that Broadwell,would be far more power effcient, depending upon how Apple implements that chip you could get more of something.
    That sucks.  Maybe a sexy new MacBook will help get him a girlfriend!

    Doubtful really. Most girls are looking for something thick and frankly Apples notebooks have become to thin to be appealing.
  • Reply 10 of 12
    lol ! Guys I am chuckling how the discussion from Broadwell has shifted to Broad Sex lol ! But the investment to do for rMBP is pretty high and unlike people in the U.S cannot upgrade it every 2 years so since planning to use it for long time was hoping to pick one with the latest of everything !!

    Marvin I am glad you still remember, my one of the use of using a Notebook is being hooked on Live Sex Cam showing websites and how I was worried that constant playing of websites showing live webcams can it affect the rMBP in anyways ! Unfortunately that activity has kinda reduced since the last couple of months, as the Passion in life keeps changing. some time back it was these gorgeous babes on the cam and these days reading everything about when Broadwell will hit the rMBP ! Sadfully it all looks sketchy as of now ! But appreciate Marvin you remembering that :-))
  • Reply 11 of 12
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    augustya wrote: »
    lol ! Guys I am chuckling how the discussion from Broadwell has shifted to Broad Sex lol ! But the investment to do for rMBP is pretty high and unlike people in the U.S cannot upgrade it every 2 years so since planning to use it for long time was hoping to pick one with the latest of everything !!
    Do realize that my MBP is a 2008 in need of major repair. Not everybody in the USA can or is willing to feed Apple cash every two years.
    Marvin I am glad you still remember, my one of the use of using a Notebook is being hooked on Live Sex Cam showing websites and how I was worried that constant playing of websites showing live webcams can it affect the rMBP in anyways !
    I wondered where that came from. The reality is you could do that sort of thing with an iPad.
    Unfortunately that activity has kinda reduced since the last couple of months, as the Passion in life keeps changing.
    Yiu sure your right arm didn't get tired?
    some time back it was these gorgeous babes on the cam and these days reading everything about when Broadwell will hit the rMBP ! Sadfully it all looks sketchy as of now ! But appreciate Marvin you remembering that :-))

    Sadly many of us are disappointed with Intels failure to deliver Broadwell. As such the rMBP are current machines and frankly very good machines. If this was the spring of the year before all the delays hit I would have suggested that you wait, now it is best to buy now if you really need it. Intel keeps implying that Briadwell for laptops will ship in early 2015 but cN we trust them anymore? Beyond that the first revs are known to have significant bugs meaning that some features won't work anyways. You never know Apple could put the rMBP on hold until Intel has a stepping that completely supports all the new features Broadwell is supposedly to ship with.
  • Reply 12 of 12
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,223moderator
    wizard69 wrote: »
    Intel keeps implying that Briadwell for laptops will ship in early 2015 but cN we trust them anymore?

    They will mean Ultrabooks and the Macbook Air, not the MBP. The chips for the MBP aren't due until Q2 2015.

    The Retina Macbook Air might be interesting if they make a 14"/15" model. That could replace the MBP for some people and would have a lower entry price.
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